Nightblade Dark Cloak changes

Jagdkommando

actosh wrote: »

Jagdkommando wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

The change ZOS did was that shield as well get stronger with your mitigation.

KatySpirit wrote: »

I am very disappointed that they have done nothing to actually make Dark Cloak a functional ability after the outcry the change was met with. Where is that front-loaded heal concept? I don't care if they make it require you have 5 pieces of heavy armor to activate it, Dark Cloak needs to have a burst heal. ALL classes need a burst heal. Tankblades have done literally nothing wrong why are they being punished?

Maybe a change will take them some time?
I play a NB Tank in all content and even on pts the skill isnt ***, such as ppl make it out to be.
Sure it lost almost the half of each tick, but that wont hit us nb tanks as hard as it looks on paper.

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actosh

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

I like a lot of the changes they made

jypcy wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I know this is a pve related discussion but I would like to point out that in pvp if you have 25k health and you health for 4.5% that's 1125 which is actually 562 because healing is cut in half in pvp (unless I'm mistaken). That morph doesn't really seem like it will be worth slotting but you need an ability in that skill line to proc your major buffs (which only lasts 8 seconds).

It's not a pve only discussion, this change hurts every aspect of nightblade as tanky/brawling class, the dark cloak nerf pushes us further to the sneaky invisible glass cannon ganker pvp wise. And eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.

But y’all are hyperbolizing which is why I’m calling it out lol. No, I wouldn’t say reapers mark is as good as a typical self heal, but that user claiming a 40k gbd is something that “nothing even comes close” to is just not true.

Same now for your claim that this “eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.” Will it be as easy to tankblade in Elsweyr as it is on live now? Probably not, but it’ll still be doable. This isn’t a change I’m excited about but it’s not the end of the world.

Have you tanked any vet trials on a nightblade? going from around 5k health per second to 1800 on pts is more than a 50% nerf. That's not hyperbole. those are the actual numbers. Imagine if green dragon blood got a 65% healing nerf one patch. Then i can post on forums that it will be harder but its still doable to heal though things like baneful or rakaat gun on hm.

Tested on 17.04.2019 same gear,same cp, same race, same everything.
Leeching was just put in to show why a light attack is almost as powerfull as the new dark cloak.

Values with 35949HP

Live Dark Cloak non Crit: 3618
Live Dark Cloak Critical Hit: 6331

Live Leeching Strikes Heal: 1869
Live Leeching Strikes Heal Crit: 3270

PTS Dark Cloak non Crit: 2131
PTS Dark Cloak Critical Hit: 3729

PTS Leeching Strikes Heal: 1852
PTS Leeching Strikes Heal Crit: 3241

LinearParadox

KatySpirit wrote: »

I am very disappointed that they have done nothing to actually make Dark Cloak a functional ability after the outcry the change was met with. Where is that front-loaded heal concept? I don't care if they make it require you have 5 pieces of heavy armor to activate it, Dark Cloak needs to have a burst heal. ALL classes need a burst heal. Tankblades have done literally nothing wrong why are they being punished?

I don't believe all classes need a burst heal, that's encouraging homogeneity which is bad for diversity and flavour.
I think a better way to put that is that they should have a way to deal with large amounts of incoming damage, in their own unique way.

I'm doubly not a fan of NB having a burst heal because they already have an incredibly powerful and impossible to balance tool called Cloak and they sure as hell don't need a burst heal on top of invisibility (and everything else they have)
HOWEVER...
Since you're GIVING UP the invis to slot the other morph for a heal, that completely changes things. Dark Cloak's heal should certainly be meaningful at mitigating a large amount of damage over a short period.

And again, I'm qualifying all this...
I HAVE A NB! I play it, often, successfully in PvP, and have played it mag, stam and (back in the day) sap tank.
I'm not just throwing the class to the wolves because I don't play it and don't care lol.

Iron_Blurr

actosh wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

I like a lot of the changes they made

jypcy wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I know this is a pve related discussion but I would like to point out that in pvp if you have 25k health and you health for 4.5% that's 1125 which is actually 562 because healing is cut in half in pvp (unless I'm mistaken). That morph doesn't really seem like it will be worth slotting but you need an ability in that skill line to proc your major buffs (which only lasts 8 seconds).

It's not a pve only discussion, this change hurts every aspect of nightblade as tanky/brawling class, the dark cloak nerf pushes us further to the sneaky invisible glass cannon ganker pvp wise. And eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.

But y’all are hyperbolizing which is why I’m calling it out lol. No, I wouldn’t say reapers mark is as good as a typical self heal, but that user claiming a 40k gbd is something that “nothing even comes close” to is just not true.

Same now for your claim that this “eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.” Will it be as easy to tankblade in Elsweyr as it is on live now? Probably not, but it’ll still be doable. This isn’t a change I’m excited about but it’s not the end of the world.

Have you tanked any vet trials on a nightblade? going from around 5k health per second to 1800 on pts is more than a 50% nerf. That's not hyperbole. those are the actual numbers. Imagine if green dragon blood got a 65% healing nerf one patch. Then i can post on forums that it will be harder but its still doable to heal though things like baneful or rakaat gun on hm.

Tested on 17.04.2019 same gear,same cp, same race, same everything.
Leeching was just put in to show why a light attack is almost as powerfull as the new dark cloak.

Values with 35949HP

Live Dark Cloak non Crit: 3618
Live Dark Cloak Critical Hit: 6331

Live Leeching Strikes Heal: 1869
Live Leeching Strikes Heal Crit: 3270

PTS Dark Cloak non Crit: 2131
PTS Dark Cloak Critical Hit: 3729

PTS Leeching Strikes Heal: 1852
PTS Leeching Strikes Heal Crit: 3241

I seriously doubt those numbers were taken with any trials tank gear and cp.. 35k is a bit light on health for a end game trials tank that's not a dk. Also honestly whats the point of posting the crit values if tanks have like what 15-20% crit at best?

jypcy

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

I like a lot of the changes they made

jypcy wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I know this is a pve related discussion but I would like to point out that in pvp if you have 25k health and you health for 4.5% that's 1125 which is actually 562 because healing is cut in half in pvp (unless I'm mistaken). That morph doesn't really seem like it will be worth slotting but you need an ability in that skill line to proc your major buffs (which only lasts 8 seconds).

It's not a pve only discussion, this change hurts every aspect of nightblade as tanky/brawling class, the dark cloak nerf pushes us further to the sneaky invisible glass cannon ganker pvp wise. And eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.

But y’all are hyperbolizing which is why I’m calling it out lol. No, I wouldn’t say reapers mark is as good as a typical self heal, but that user claiming a 40k gbd is something that “nothing even comes close” to is just not true.

Same now for your claim that this “eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.” Will it be as easy to tankblade in Elsweyr as it is on live now? Probably not, but it’ll still be doable. This isn’t a change I’m excited about but it’s not the end of the world.

Have you tanked any vet trials on a nightblade? going from around 5k health per second to 1800 on pts is more than a 50% nerf. That's not hyperbole. those are the actual numbers. Imagine if green dragon blood got a 65% healing nerf one patch. Then i can post on forums that it will be harder but its still doable to heal though things like baneful or rakaat gun on hm.

Yep, such as vas hm back before the healing dark cloak was even a thing. For the vcr hm progression I’m helping one of my guilds with atm, I’ve even swapped my tankblade back to using invigorating drain as its main self heal in anticipation of the changes. Like said, it’s not as easy as using dark cloak has been, but it’s still doable, considering tankblades have been/are successful without even using the nerfed skill.

actosh

jypcy wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

I like a lot of the changes they made

jypcy wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I know this is a pve related discussion but I would like to point out that in pvp if you have 25k health and you health for 4.5% that's 1125 which is actually 562 because healing is cut in half in pvp (unless I'm mistaken). That morph doesn't really seem like it will be worth slotting but you need an ability in that skill line to proc your major buffs (which only lasts 8 seconds).

It's not a pve only discussion, this change hurts every aspect of nightblade as tanky/brawling class, the dark cloak nerf pushes us further to the sneaky invisible glass cannon ganker pvp wise. And eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.

But y’all are hyperbolizing which is why I’m calling it out lol. No, I wouldn’t say reapers mark is as good as a typical self heal, but that user claiming a 40k gbd is something that “nothing even comes close” to is just not true.

Same now for your claim that this “eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.” Will it be as easy to tankblade in Elsweyr as it is on live now? Probably not, but it’ll still be doable. This isn’t a change I’m excited about but it’s not the end of the world.

Have you tanked any vet trials on a nightblade? going from around 5k health per second to 1800 on pts is more than a 50% nerf. That's not hyperbole. those are the actual numbers. Imagine if green dragon blood got a 65% healing nerf one patch. Then i can post on forums that it will be harder but its still doable to heal though things like baneful or rakaat gun on hm.

Yep, such as vas hm back before the healing dark cloak was even a thing. For the vcr hm progression I’m helping one of my guilds with atm, I’ve even swapped my tankblade back to using invigorating drain as its main self heal in anticipation of the changes. Like said, it’s not as easy as using dark cloak has been, but it’s still doable, considering tankblades have been/are successful without even using the nerfed skill.

Yep, we pulled it off before, and will do so whatever change they do to the skill. I admit i was happy when they introduced it with Summerset . Nobody likes it when your tools get taken away/nerfed/balanced.

Just adapt.

Iron_Blurr

So sorc gets 35% of max health instantly with Clannfear but nb can only get 4.5% per second while it costs the same amount.. YEA THAT SEEMS FAIR
Even a nightblade that uses dark cloak and them spams vampire drain will have less incoming healing than a sorc that can just cast their clanfear twice and get like 20k NON CRIT burst heals.

jypcy

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

So sorc gets 35% of max health instantly with Clannfear but nb can only get 4.5% per second while it costs the same amount.. YEA THAT SEEMS FAIR
Even a nightblade that uses dark cloak and them spams vampire drain will have less incoming healing than a sorc that can just cast their clanfear twice and get like 20k NON CRIT burst heals.

If you like tanking with a sorc, play a sorc. If you like tanking with a nightblade, play a nightblade. Come next patch I fully expect players to continue to be able to use either. I wish they kept dark cloak as is but tbh it’s made tanking on nb feel like ez mode since they introduced it so I can understand if they feel the need to change it. I wish it wasn’t so severe a change and I’ll certainly be happy if they find a middle ground, but it looks like it’s what we’ll end up with for at least the next three months. Idk what else to tell you haha

actosh

think middle ground will be 10-15% upfront, rest over time with 4-6% ticks.
lets see what will happen on pts or when it goes live. They are aware that it was a bit to harsh.

Iron_Blurr

"tbh it’s made tanking on nb feel like ez mode"
Good troll. Dk tank gets major mending, minor vitality, a strong damage shield, a god mode ultimate, and a godlike insta cast heal is not ez mode. Not to mention using an ult gives you the equivalent of a tripot. But oh no nb tank is ez mode. Despite the fact that they and templar make the worst tanks.
Source: I have dk tank, warden tank, sorc tank, nb tank and am an end game trials tank main.

jypcy

actosh wrote: »

think middle ground will be 10-15% upfront, rest over time with 4-6% ticks.
lets see what will happen on pts or when it goes live. They are aware that it was a bit to harsh.

As I’ve suggested in other threads, if ZOS has determined it needs a change, I think the 4.5% could be perfectly fine if they allowed you to stack the hot. Idk whether it would be balanced in PvP because I don’t spend too much time in it nowadays, but I think it’d work fine for pve tanks. Two casts in a row and it’s practically as potent as on live but for over twice as long. And if you need more heals within a window you can pump in more stacks without wasting heal ticks like you would on live. I’d be fine with pretty much any buff to the skill, though, so an upfront burst and lingering hot would probably be good in my book too. Although I’m also curious with the merciless resolve changes how much investment from my builds would be needed to make that at least a semi-effective tank heal.

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

"tbh it’s made tanking on nb feel like ez mode"
Good troll. Dk tank gets major mending, minor vitality, a strong damage shield, a god mode ultimate, and a godlike insta cast heal is not ez mode. Not to mention using an ult gives you the equivalent of a tripot. But oh no nb tank is ez mode. Despite the fact that they and templar make the worst tanks.
Source: I have dk tank, warden tank, sorc tank, nb tank and am an end game trials tank main.

lol you’re free to disagree on that but I said what I said, speaking from tanking experience with all five classes and as an end game trials tank main as well. I prefer running tankblade in vcr to either dk or warden.

actosh

Prefer nb there as well. The healing over time is just strong.
Even on pts its decent enough on a basic endgame tank build.

jypcy

actosh wrote: »

Prefer nb there as well. The healing over time is just strong.
Even on pts its decent enough on a basic endgame tank build.

Awesome, that’s good to know, especially because my tankblades tend to run about 35k health as well. Although my first couple weeks post-patch will probably be spent playing around with tankromancers haha

actosh

jypcy wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Prefer nb there as well. The healing over time is just strong.
Even on pts its decent enough on a basic endgame tank build.

Awesome, that’s good to know, especially because my tankblades tend to run about 35k health as well. Although my first couple weeks post-patch will probably be spent playing around with tankromancers haha

I just grind one up to have one, and then continue playing my nb ^^

KatySpirit

Bear in mind other changes that have hit the class since the old days of sap tanking. We lost the increased healing received from Swallow Soul which helped back when we only had healing over time and the expensive sap essence to rely on. Dark Cloak was a great idea, it scales on health and replaces the invisibility to make it fair in PVP.

Do I think the changes to Dark Cloak will destroy nightblade tanking? No. I believe that dedicated nightblade players will make this work. The people who have tanked on this class for years are creative and flexible

But here is the thing, and as a nightblade main I hate to ask it, but will it be worth it for the rest of the team to play a tankblade? Ask yourself that seriously. What can we offer that DK or warden or necromancer or even sorcerer can't? This pointless skill change is a step backwards on a class that already has very little going for it in group content. NB has lost some of its debuffs, has no regular skill synergies, and has niche-only group buffs like major expedition. Now I fear we must rely on three or four or five skills just to heal and defend ourselves, taking up resources and ability slots and possibly too much of the healer's attention, and so we will continue to be a selfish class.

Basically, I don't like that they are weakening and spreading out all of our useful defensive/healing skills so that the entire bar is just for staying alive. I also wish they would put some time and thought into giving us ways to help our teammates. There are plenty of things the devs could have changed to actually help nightblade tanking, and decreasing the burst of Dark Cloak is not one of them. I know that complaining cannot make them change it, and so yes, we will adapt or we will wait for the next change, but they should hear our opinions.

Baraber

KatySpirit wrote: »

Bear in mind other changes that have hit the class since the old days of sap tanking. We lost the increased healing received from Swallow Soul which helped back when we only had healing over time and the expensive sap essence to rely on. Dark Cloak was a great idea, it scales on health and replaces the invisibility to make it fair in PVP.

Do I think the changes to Dark Cloak will destroy nightblade tanking? No. I believe that dedicated nightblade players will make this work. The people who have tanked on this class for years are creative and flexible

But here is the thing, and as a nightblade main I hate to ask it, but will it be worth it for the rest of the team to play a tankblade? Ask yourself that seriously. What can we offer that DK or warden or necromancer or even sorcerer can't? This pointless skill change is a step backwards on a class that already has very little going for it in group content. NB has lost some of its debuffs, has no regular skill synergies, and has niche-only group buffs like major expedition. Now I fear we must rely on three or four or five skills just to heal and defend ourselves, taking up resources and ability slots and possibly too much of the healer's attention, and so we will continue to be a selfish class.

Basically, I don't like that they are weakening and spreading out all of our useful defensive/healing skills so that the entire bar is just for staying alive. I also wish they would put some time and thought into giving us ways to help our teammates. There are plenty of things the devs could have changed to actually help nightblade tanking, and decreasing the burst of Dark Cloak is not one of them. I know that complaining cannot make them change it, and so yes, we will adapt or we will wait for the next change, but they should hear our opinions.

The only reason that will make me accept the dark cloak nerf is an increase in nightblade group utility, nightblades are known to be selfish tanks as it is, up until now at least we had good survivability (with earlier sap tanking a couple of years back and dark cloak the past year) taking out our main survivability tool leaves us both weak and selfish, leaving other tanks miles ahead of us in terms or group support and now we can't even hold our own, why should we play nightblade tanks when we have nothing to give our group? DK's Wardens Sorcs even templar (and now Nerco) have much better utility.
Give us SOMETHING.

actosh

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

I can just repeat what a lot of the dedicated NB Tanks have mentioned for years.

We need group Support in a usefull way. A meager speedbuff via Path of Darkness cant be considered Group Support ability.
Even the assasination passive to hand over more crit to stam players is a lackluster.

i dont know with what u come up with, there are enough options wich could be added to one of the Skills in NB´s toolkit.
Do something about it.
Btw, a synergie in one of our skills that is not an ultimate would be great too.

Thx.

Myconos

Nightblade tanks and healers really need an accessible synergy. I think the new sets being released will shift the meta even more towards support characters being expected to provide synergies. The most logical skill is refreshing path, since it will help both archetypes without increasing damage dealer support. Thematically, sharing and refreshing the caster's shadow barrier passive, maybe with providing minor endurance would be fitting for refreshing path.

actosh

Myconos wrote: »

Nightblade tanks and healers really need an accessible synergy. I think the new sets being released will shift the meta even more towards support characters being expected to provide synergies. The most logical skill is refreshing path, since it will help both archetypes without increasing damage dealer support. Thematically, sharing and refreshing the caster's shadow barrier passive, maybe with providing minor endurance would be fitting for refreshing path.

Like that suggestion, and the typical "use orbs/boneshield" doesnt count.
Orbs are thrown by healers anyway and bonehshield has a very limited range.

So a synergy on path would be fitting.

Juhasow

Baraber wrote: »

I really don't understand why some of the commenters here ask ZOS to nerf it less like spreading the heal over 4s instead of 3.5, give it a 15% burst or whatnot, if anything this ability needs a BUFF. We were fine with the ability as it was, it wasn't the best but it worked. Right now on the PTS it's useless.
Take off the minor protection completely for all we care, but turning this useful ability into a weak hot is simply a death sentence for both this morph and nightblade tanking (nightblade brawling too).

If You dont understand why certain ability on nightblade is getting nerfed answert is simple : stamblade. Stamina nightblade is root of all issue that nightblade as a class is facing especially in PvP and since ZoS is totally affaraid to really deal with stamblade and nerf things that really overperform on that vesrion of the class there will be always issues like that resulting with class getting nerfed and stamblade remaining more or less the same.

jypcy

With respect to nb group utility, someone had suggested that Lotus Fan would apply minor vulnerability to any target hit by its aoe (presumably they could also give this to the other morphs in the style of dark flare: ST damage, aoe rebuff). I don’t think it’d make tankblades as desirable as DKs and their engulfing flames debuff, but it would give tankblades more group utility.

As of recent patches their key utilities imo have been lots of bar space and good ulti gen, but the dark cloak change as is will likely require us to devote more bar space to self heals and it looks like a tankromancer dedicated to ulti gen will be better at it than NBs.

Both before and after this patch as is, I think tankblades could weather several buffs and still not be OP. And while I can understand why ZOS might need to change dark cloak, I agree that as things are looking the playstyle isn’t going to get any compensatory buffs, and may be more challenging and less rewarding than tankplars are for it.

actosh

jypcy wrote: »

With respect to nb group utility, someone had suggested that Lotus Fan would apply minor vulnerability to any target hit by its aoe (presumably they could also give this to the other morphs in the style of dark flare: ST damage, aoe rebuff). I don’t think it’d make tankblades as desirable as DKs and their engulfing flames debuff, but it would give tankblades more group utility.

As of recent patches their key utilities imo have been lots of bar space and good ulti gen, but the dark cloak change as is will likely require us to devote more bar space to self heals and it looks like a tankromancer dedicated to ulti gen will be better at it than NBs.

Both before and after this patch as is, I think tankblades could weather several buffs and still not be OP. And while I can understand why ZOS might need to change dark cloak, I agree that as things are looking the playstyle isn’t going to get any compensatory buffs, and may be more challenging and less rewarding than tankplars are for it.

Problem is that engulfing is unique. Should give other classes something similiar or let engulfing jsut work for the caster.
Warden got an exclusive buff (toughness) but that can applied by the healer as well.
Aoe Vulnability can be a bit op i fear.

Zos should give nb tanks more attention, Mark Target for example, yeah its free, but in zos mind its clearly a pvp ability.
Still we lack a usefull synergie that is not tied to an ultimate, and we still lack grp support (unique effect).

jypcy

actosh wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

With respect to nb group utility, someone had suggested that Lotus Fan would apply minor vulnerability to any target hit by its aoe (presumably they could also give this to the other morphs in the style of dark flare: ST damage, aoe rebuff). I don’t think it’d make tankblades as desirable as DKs and their engulfing flames debuff, but it would give tankblades more group utility.

As of recent patches their key utilities imo have been lots of bar space and good ulti gen, but the dark cloak change as is will likely require us to devote more bar space to self heals and it looks like a tankromancer dedicated to ulti gen will be better at it than NBs.

Both before and after this patch as is, I think tankblades could weather several buffs and still not be OP. And while I can understand why ZOS might need to change dark cloak, I agree that as things are looking the playstyle isn’t going to get any compensatory buffs, and may be more challenging and less rewarding than tankplars are for it.

Problem is that engulfing is unique. Should give other classes something similiar or let engulfing jsut work for the caster.
Warden got an exclusive buff (toughness) but that can applied by the healer as well.
Aoe Vulnability can be a bit op i fear.

Zos should give nb tanks more attention, Mark Target for example, yeah its free, but in zos mind its clearly a pvp ability.
Still we lack a usefull synergie that is not tied to an ultimate, and we still lack grp support (unique effect).

Oh I’m absolutely in favor of either every class bringing a unique, damage-oriented debuff like that or none of them having it. Probably the latter, honestly. Or, as you suggest, making them only work for the caster. Just raising what others have suggested for the current patch. Iirc, @Liofa was the one who brought it up.

Iron_Blurr

I think they should leave expedition on double take and change path somehow. Maybe they could give path a synergy or give allies standing in the path some kind of buff besides expedition. In trials the expedition is kinda pointless because you either have to stack(making the speed buff useless) or quickly position for some mechanic(meaning you leave the path). Would be nice if path had some kind of buff like minor vitality, minor protection or gave it a synergy to make it more useful. Keep in mind im only referring to the healing path morph. I dont care if the damage on has expedition or lacks those other buffs.

Iskiab

actosh wrote: »

Myconos wrote: »

Nightblade tanks and healers really need an accessible synergy. I think the new sets being released will shift the meta even more towards support characters being expected to provide synergies. The most logical skill is refreshing path, since it will help both archetypes without increasing damage dealer support. Thematically, sharing and refreshing the caster's shadow barrier passive, maybe with providing minor endurance would be fitting for refreshing path.

Like that suggestion, and the typical "use orbs/boneshield" doesnt count.
Orbs are thrown by healers anyway and bonehshield has a very limited range.

So a synergy on path would be fitting.

This is a good idea. I think both path and ritual are meant to be class defining abilities. One’s used in almost every build by their class (ritual) and the other almost no one uses (path).

It’s easy to see why.

Ritual:
- 20m range in all directions
- aoe heal ability, or healing plus damage
- 20% snare
- self cleanse
- powerful synergy that removes all negative effects

Path:
- small area
- healing or damage
- major expedition

Even major expedition isn’t good for path because the area’s too small. I can see why they’ve left ritual so powerful because it’s a class defining ability, but isn’t path supposed to be defining for NBs?

Silver_Strider

Move the Minor Protection from Dark Cloak to Refreshing Path and have it apply to allies. Instantly makes Refreshing Path a hell of a lot more worthwhile to run for Tank and Heal Blades.

Add Minor Vitality to Dark Cloak and make it heal for 5.5% Max Health every second for 6 seconds. It's not a huge improvement to the skill overall but the Minor Vitality would help make the Heal stronger and it does grant its full benefit in a quicker period of time without making it hugely powerful. Personally, would prefer it to simply be reverted back to its live iteration but I'm going for broke here and trying to work with it in its current form.

jypcy

I raised the topic in another thread but this is also mainly about tankblade survivability so I’ll repost it here:

How would people feel if the heal that’s been added to grim focus was a meaty health based one instead of damage based? From reading other threads/posts it seems like a lot of stamblades/magblades either don’t think the heal is useful period or don’t think it’s reliable for their playstyle. It would limit the tankblade burst heal to once every 5 seconds, but if it’s strong enough hopefully you don’t need it more often than that. I’d think the heals from siphoning strikes, dark cloak and/or refreshing path, and healers would be sufficient to counter ambient damage between heavy attacks.

Insco851

jypcy wrote: »

I raised the topic in another thread but this is also mainly about tankblade survivability so I’ll repost it here:

How would people feel if the heal that’s been added to grim focus was a meaty health based one instead of damage based? From reading other threads/posts it seems like a lot of stamblades/magblades either don’t think the heal is useful period or don’t think it’s reliable for their playstyle. It would limit the tankblade burst heal to once every 5 seconds, but if it’s strong enough hopefully you don’t need it more often than that. I’d think the heals from siphoning strikes, dark cloak and/or refreshing path, and healers would be sufficient to counter ambient damage between heavy attacks.

Do this, but buff dark cloak to magicka based heal slightly stronger than Rapid regen.

KatySpirit

Baraber wrote: »

KatySpirit wrote: »

Bear in mind other changes that have hit the class since the old days of sap tanking. We lost the increased healing received from Swallow Soul which helped back when we only had healing over time and the expensive sap essence to rely on. Dark Cloak was a great idea, it scales on health and replaces the invisibility to make it fair in PVP.

Do I think the changes to Dark Cloak will destroy nightblade tanking? No. I believe that dedicated nightblade players will make this work. The people who have tanked on this class for years are creative and flexible

But here is the thing, and as a nightblade main I hate to ask it, but will it be worth it for the rest of the team to play a tankblade? Ask yourself that seriously. What can we offer that DK or warden or necromancer or even sorcerer can't? This pointless skill change is a step backwards on a class that already has very little going for it in group content. NB has lost some of its debuffs, has no regular skill synergies, and has niche-only group buffs like major expedition. Now I fear we must rely on three or four or five skills just to heal and defend ourselves, taking up resources and ability slots and possibly too much of the healer's attention, and so we will continue to be a selfish class.

Basically, I don't like that they are weakening and spreading out all of our useful defensive/healing skills so that the entire bar is just for staying alive. I also wish they would put some time and thought into giving us ways to help our teammates. There are plenty of things the devs could have changed to actually help nightblade tanking, and decreasing the burst of Dark Cloak is not one of them. I know that complaining cannot make them change it, and so yes, we will adapt or we will wait for the next change, but they should hear our opinions.

The only reason that will make me accept the dark cloak nerf is an increase in nightblade group utility, nightblades are known to be selfish tanks as it is, up until now at least we had good survivability (with earlier sap tanking a couple of years back and dark cloak the past year) taking out our main survivability tool leaves us both weak and selfish, leaving other tanks miles ahead of us in terms or group support and now we can't even hold our own, why should we play nightblade tanks when we have nothing to give our group? DK's Wardens Sorcs even templar (and now Nerco) have much better utility.
Give us SOMETHING.

Yeah, I would love to have something that makes NB tanks really useful. Healers suffer from mediocrity as well. This really just is the Stamina DPS class, and that's a shame. It can be much more if the changes were actually designed in such a way.

We still need a good heal, though, we can't do our primary job if we die. With Cloak as they plan to make it we can tank most content, but I don't foresee veteran trials...which we can currently tank.

Iskiab

Yea, the way I see abilities is if something’s based on damage done then it’s a dps ability. If it’s % health based then it’s a tank ability.

As a NB healer I don’t use either of those types of skills, restoration staff heals are always better. The only exception is sap essence is good on pve trash.

If tanks say Dark Cloak is weak then it must be really bad.

I like the changes to merciless purely because I’ll be holding 5 stacks and never fire the proc. One ability giving 15% mitigation is great for a pvp healer. The self heal without penetration would never be as powerful.