Nightblade Dark Cloak changes

Iskiab

I think Dark Cloak is the only remaining sore point for NBs (at least on the mag side). I’m pretty happy where everything else is right now.

The devs need to figure out a way to make NB tanking okay, or a reason for other NBs to ever take dark cloak. From the sounds of it even NB tanks will play with shadowy disguise post patch.

KatySpirit

NB tanks have a heal over time already from using Swallow Soul and can get Minor Protection from a variety of other places. The thing that made Dark Cloak so helpful for tanks was the quick heal. And while Swallow Soul lost it's buff and scales on damage making it not a great HoT on a tank, it's probably still comparable to this new change to Dark Cloak. I mean, my NB tank hits harder with Swallow Soul than my NB healer does with Funnel Health

Jeezye

Iskiab wrote: »

I think Dark Cloak is the only remaining sore point for NBs (at least on the mag side). I’m pretty happy where everything else is right now.

The devs need to figure out a way to make NB tanking okay, or a reason for other NBs to ever take dark cloak. From the sounds of it even NB tanks will play with shadowy disguise post patch.

IDK I still think swallow soul heal is too small to keep it viable. I run master's flame clench atm together with swallow soul, but honestly why should I not spamm clench instead and switch out swallow for a real heal (e.g. mutagen?). Damage is almost identical between both skills

e-rwan

KatySpirit wrote: »

NB tanks have a heal over time already from using Swallow Soul and can get Minor Protection from a variety of other places. The thing that made Dark Cloak so helpful for tanks was the quick heal. And while Swallow Soul lost it's buff and scales on damage making it not a great HoT on a tank, it's probably still comparable to this new change to Dark Cloak. I mean, my NB tank hits harder with Swallow Soul than my NB healer does with Funnel Health

the only worth/viable source from wich I see you could get minor protection is by slotting Temporal Guard.

KatySpirit

e-rwan wrote: »

KatySpirit wrote: »

NB tanks have a heal over time already from using Swallow Soul and can get Minor Protection from a variety of other places. The thing that made Dark Cloak so helpful for tanks was the quick heal. And while Swallow Soul lost it's buff and scales on damage making it not a great HoT on a tank, it's probably still comparable to this new change to Dark Cloak. I mean, my NB tank hits harder with Swallow Soul than my NB healer does with Funnel Health

the only worth/viable source from wich I see you could get minor protection is by slotting Temporal Guard.

Yep, that and Circle of Protection since it lasts twice as long as the new Dark Cloak changes last. I'm not saying it is a bad buff to have from the skill, only that a longer stretch of minor protection won't make up for the loss of the good heal.

Kuramas9tails

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Should be as strong as coagulating blood because right now its junk in comparison.

That would be like asking ZOS to put it on par with other healing abilities....not like they are changing things to equal what other DOTS do or anything....right? RIGHT?!

Strider__Roshin

Having it remove negative effects, and increasing the duration 1 second per negative effect removed would give Shadowy Disguise a run for its money.

jypcy

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

max health based burst heal of some sort .

Templars would like a word with you. And no, sun shield does not count as a heal.

Agreed, and imo tankplars are the worst tanks in terms of self survival on live. But I think it’s apparent that sun shield is meant to be the Templar “version” of gdb, clannfear, dark cloak, etc., even if it’s arguably inferior. I wish they had a nice, tanky self heal as well.

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

max health based burst heal of some sort .

Templars would like a word with you. And no, sun shield does not count as a heal.

While i agree with you that templars also need a strong health based burst heal, at least they HAVE burst heals. Not to say they dont need a buff but honor the dead and the clap heal are decent heals even though they cost a lot of mag. Dark cloak is like less than 2k health per second while costing way more than honor the dead as well.

Templar tanks do not have a burst heal. They don't have the stats to make htd effective what so ever. My dk has hit a 40k dragons blood crit self buffed. Nothing even comes close to that on any other class.

I’ve had reapers mark hit for ~56k on live. I think the highest I’ve seen it hit is ~80k self buffed, but that was several patches ago. Not saying it’s a good survival solution, but to be fair, it easily surpasses gdb in terms of raw power.

Iron_Blurr

e-rwan wrote: »

KatySpirit wrote: »

NB tanks have a heal over time already from using Swallow Soul and can get Minor Protection from a variety of other places. The thing that made Dark Cloak so helpful for tanks was the quick heal. And while Swallow Soul lost it's buff and scales on damage making it not a great HoT on a tank, it's probably still comparable to this new change to Dark Cloak. I mean, my NB tank hits harder with Swallow Soul than my NB healer does with Funnel Health

the only worth/viable source from wich I see you could get minor protection is by slotting Temporal Guard.

Don't forget circle of protection. Pve tanks may slot that in certain fights to give the entire group minor protection. It's actually useful in execute phase of vHof hm.

Baraber

jypcy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

max health based burst heal of some sort .

Templars would like a word with you. And no, sun shield does not count as a heal.

Agreed, and imo tankplars are the worst tanks in terms of self survival on live. But I think it’s apparent that sun shield is meant to be the Templar “version” of gdb, clannfear, dark cloak, etc., even if it’s arguably inferior. I wish they had a nice, tanky self heal as well.

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

max health based burst heal of some sort .

Templars would like a word with you. And no, sun shield does not count as a heal.

While i agree with you that templars also need a strong health based burst heal, at least they HAVE burst heals. Not to say they dont need a buff but honor the dead and the clap heal are decent heals even though they cost a lot of mag. Dark cloak is like less than 2k health per second while costing way more than honor the dead as well.

Templar tanks do not have a burst heal. They don't have the stats to make htd effective what so ever. My dk has hit a 40k dragons blood crit self buffed. Nothing even comes close to that on any other class.

I’ve had reapers mark hit for ~56k on live. I think the highest I’ve seen it hit is ~80k self buffed, but that was several patches ago. Not saying it’s a good survival solution, but to be fair, it easily surpasses gdb in terms of raw power.

It shouldn't be looked at as a healing tool of any sort, the condition of something having to die is far too limiting and uncontrollable to be considered proper "healing", you did state that it is not a good survival tool, but there is no place to compare it to green dragon blood, which is a self healing ability, the healing from reapers mark is just an added perk, and it isnt what the skill is used for. It can have twice as much potency and it wouldn't matter one bit.

KatySpirit

Baraber wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

max health based burst heal of some sort .

Templars would like a word with you. And no, sun shield does not count as a heal.

Agreed, and imo tankplars are the worst tanks in terms of self survival on live. But I think it’s apparent that sun shield is meant to be the Templar “version” of gdb, clannfear, dark cloak, etc., even if it’s arguably inferior. I wish they had a nice, tanky self heal as well.

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

max health based burst heal of some sort .

Templars would like a word with you. And no, sun shield does not count as a heal.

While i agree with you that templars also need a strong health based burst heal, at least they HAVE burst heals. Not to say they dont need a buff but honor the dead and the clap heal are decent heals even though they cost a lot of mag. Dark cloak is like less than 2k health per second while costing way more than honor the dead as well.

Templar tanks do not have a burst heal. They don't have the stats to make htd effective what so ever. My dk has hit a 40k dragons blood crit self buffed. Nothing even comes close to that on any other class.

I’ve had reapers mark hit for ~56k on live. I think the highest I’ve seen it hit is ~80k self buffed, but that was several patches ago. Not saying it’s a good survival solution, but to be fair, it easily surpasses gdb in terms of raw power.

It shouldn't be looked at as a healing tool of any sort, the condition of something having to die is far too limiting and uncontrollable to be considered proper "healing", you did state that it is not a good survival tool, but there is no place to compare it to green dragon blood, which is a self healing ability, the healing from reapers mark is just an added perk, and it isnt what the skill is used for. It can have twice as much potency and it wouldn't matter one bit.

Yeah, Reapers Mark cannot help a tank against a trial boss. Even if the boss has adds, find me a DPS who will observe the tank is dying and kill a targeted add for them.

Alchimiste1

I know this is a pve related discussion but I would like to point out that in pvp if you have 25k health and you health for 4.5% that's 1125 which is actually 562 because healing is cut in half in pvp (unless I'm mistaken). That morph doesn't really seem like it will be worth slotting but you need an ability in that skill line to proc your major buffs (which only lasts 8 seconds).

Iskiab

KatySpirit wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

max health based burst heal of some sort .

Templars would like a word with you. And no, sun shield does not count as a heal.

Agreed, and imo tankplars are the worst tanks in terms of self survival on live. But I think it’s apparent that sun shield is meant to be the Templar “version” of gdb, clannfear, dark cloak, etc., even if it’s arguably inferior. I wish they had a nice, tanky self heal as well.

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

max health based burst heal of some sort .

Templars would like a word with you. And no, sun shield does not count as a heal.

While i agree with you that templars also need a strong health based burst heal, at least they HAVE burst heals. Not to say they dont need a buff but honor the dead and the clap heal are decent heals even though they cost a lot of mag. Dark cloak is like less than 2k health per second while costing way more than honor the dead as well.

Templar tanks do not have a burst heal. They don't have the stats to make htd effective what so ever. My dk has hit a 40k dragons blood crit self buffed. Nothing even comes close to that on any other class.

I’ve had reapers mark hit for ~56k on live. I think the highest I’ve seen it hit is ~80k self buffed, but that was several patches ago. Not saying it’s a good survival solution, but to be fair, it easily surpasses gdb in terms of raw power.

It shouldn't be looked at as a healing tool of any sort, the condition of something having to die is far too limiting and uncontrollable to be considered proper "healing", you did state that it is not a good survival tool, but there is no place to compare it to green dragon blood, which is a self healing ability, the healing from reapers mark is just an added perk, and it isnt what the skill is used for. It can have twice as much potency and it wouldn't matter one bit.

Yeah, Reapers Mark cannot help a tank against a trial boss. Even if the boss has adds, find me a DPS who will observe the tank is dying and kill a targeted add for them.

A better change would have been to add the magic steal onto reaper’s mark instead of cripple.

Jeezye

Iskiab wrote: »

KatySpirit wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

max health based burst heal of some sort .

Templars would like a word with you. And no, sun shield does not count as a heal.

Agreed, and imo tankplars are the worst tanks in terms of self survival on live. But I think it’s apparent that sun shield is meant to be the Templar “version” of gdb, clannfear, dark cloak, etc., even if it’s arguably inferior. I wish they had a nice, tanky self heal as well.

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

max health based burst heal of some sort .

Templars would like a word with you. And no, sun shield does not count as a heal.

While i agree with you that templars also need a strong health based burst heal, at least they HAVE burst heals. Not to say they dont need a buff but honor the dead and the clap heal are decent heals even though they cost a lot of mag. Dark cloak is like less than 2k health per second while costing way more than honor the dead as well.

Templar tanks do not have a burst heal. They don't have the stats to make htd effective what so ever. My dk has hit a 40k dragons blood crit self buffed. Nothing even comes close to that on any other class.

I’ve had reapers mark hit for ~56k on live. I think the highest I’ve seen it hit is ~80k self buffed, but that was several patches ago. Not saying it’s a good survival solution, but to be fair, it easily surpasses gdb in terms of raw power.

It shouldn't be looked at as a healing tool of any sort, the condition of something having to die is far too limiting and uncontrollable to be considered proper "healing", you did state that it is not a good survival tool, but there is no place to compare it to green dragon blood, which is a self healing ability, the healing from reapers mark is just an added perk, and it isnt what the skill is used for. It can have twice as much potency and it wouldn't matter one bit.

Yeah, Reapers Mark cannot help a tank against a trial boss. Even if the boss has adds, find me a DPS who will observe the tank is dying and kill a targeted add for them.

A better change would have been to add the magic steal onto reaper’s mark instead of cripple.

That’d be amazing, and give cripple expedition back

Baraber

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I know this is a pve related discussion but I would like to point out that in pvp if you have 25k health and you health for 4.5% that's 1125 which is actually 562 because healing is cut in half in pvp (unless I'm mistaken). That morph doesn't really seem like it will be worth slotting but you need an ability in that skill line to proc your major buffs (which only lasts 8 seconds).

It's not a pve only discussion, this change hurts every aspect of nightblade as tanky/brawling class, the dark cloak nerf pushes us further to the sneaky invisible glass cannon ganker pvp wise. And eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.

Iron_Blurr

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I know this is a pve related discussion but I would like to point out that in pvp if you have 25k health and you health for 4.5% that's 1125 which is actually 562 because healing is cut in half in pvp (unless I'm mistaken). That morph doesn't really seem like it will be worth slotting but you need an ability in that skill line to proc your major buffs (which only lasts 8 seconds).

Dont forget about getting defiled also. It Will end up healing for like 300-400health per second.

Iron_Blurr

I hope they dont get rid of the expedition on blur. I like being able to get the speed buff without breaking stealth or requiring a target like cripple needs. Also you can run whenever instead of a specific area like how path works.

Iskiab

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

I hope they dont get rid of the expedition on blur. I like being able to get the speed buff without breaking stealth or requiring a target like cripple needs. Also you can run whenever instead of a specific area like how path works.

If I remember right, Race Against Time doesn’t break cloak. It’s only offensive things, healing, and buffs on other players from what I remember, forward momentum doesn’t as well.

Iron_Blurr

v5.0.2
Nightblade dark cloak still sucks and unnecessarily makes the lives of nightblade tanks in pve painful.
If you have around 40k health dark cloak will only tick for 1800 health per second. Thats useless in pve and pathetic in pvp. Pve tanks have to self heal though high incoming BURST damage at times and in pvp with the battle spirit effect that 1800 healing goes down to something like 800-900 depending on passives. That is not even counting debuffs like defile in pvp or extreme defiles like baneful mark in cloudrest for pve.

If Dark Cloak HAS to be a heal over time, it cant be this weak.
Why can every other class get a strong burst heal except for nightblade??? I thought the devs were trying to standardize similar abilities across all classes.

Insco851

Pretty surprised to not see ANY change to dark cloak this patch. Actually 5.02 has some of the softest balance changes I’ve ever seen in a third week of pts cycle.

#MakeDarkCloakUsefulAgain

jypcy

Baraber wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I know this is a pve related discussion but I would like to point out that in pvp if you have 25k health and you health for 4.5% that's 1125 which is actually 562 because healing is cut in half in pvp (unless I'm mistaken). That morph doesn't really seem like it will be worth slotting but you need an ability in that skill line to proc your major buffs (which only lasts 8 seconds).

It's not a pve only discussion, this change hurts every aspect of nightblade as tanky/brawling class, the dark cloak nerf pushes us further to the sneaky invisible glass cannon ganker pvp wise. And eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.

But y’all are hyperbolizing which is why I’m calling it out lol. No, I wouldn’t say reapers mark is as good as a typical self heal, but that user claiming a 40k gbd is something that “nothing even comes close” to is just not true.

Same now for your claim that this “eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.” Will it be as easy to tankblade in Elsweyr as it is on live now? Probably not, but it’ll still be doable. This isn’t a change I’m excited about but it’s not the end of the world.

Toc de Malsvi

Has anyone checked Dark Cloak to see if Minor Protection is being applied? Last week it wasn't showing Minor Protection on my buffs/debuffs.

KatySpirit

I am very disappointed that they have done nothing to actually make Dark Cloak a functional ability after the outcry the change was met with. Where is that front-loaded heal concept? I don't care if they make it require you have 5 pieces of heavy armor to activate it, Dark Cloak needs to have a burst heal. ALL classes need a burst heal. Tankblades have done literally nothing wrong why are they being punished?

actosh

The change ZOS did was that shield as well get stronger with your mitigation.

KatySpirit wrote: »

I am very disappointed that they have done nothing to actually make Dark Cloak a functional ability after the outcry the change was met with. Where is that front-loaded heal concept? I don't care if they make it require you have 5 pieces of heavy armor to activate it, Dark Cloak needs to have a burst heal. ALL classes need a burst heal. Tankblades have done literally nothing wrong why are they being punished?

Maybe a change will take them some time?
I play a NB Tank in all content and even on pts the skill isnt ***, such as ppl make it out to be.
Sure it lost almost the half of each tick, but that wont hit us nb tanks as hard as it looks on paper.

Baraber

actosh wrote: »

The change ZOS did was that shield as well get stronger with your mitigation.

KatySpirit wrote: »

I am very disappointed that they have done nothing to actually make Dark Cloak a functional ability after the outcry the change was met with. Where is that front-loaded heal concept? I don't care if they make it require you have 5 pieces of heavy armor to activate it, Dark Cloak needs to have a burst heal. ALL classes need a burst heal. Tankblades have done literally nothing wrong why are they being punished?

Maybe a change will take them some time?
I play a NB Tank in all content and even on pts the skill isnt ***, such as ppl make it out to be.
Sure it lost almost the half of each tick, but that wont hit us nb tanks as hard as it looks on paper.

Blasphemy!
Revert Dark Cloak NOW!

actosh

Baraber wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

The change ZOS did was that shield as well get stronger with your mitigation.

KatySpirit wrote: »

I am very disappointed that they have done nothing to actually make Dark Cloak a functional ability after the outcry the change was met with. Where is that front-loaded heal concept? I don't care if they make it require you have 5 pieces of heavy armor to activate it, Dark Cloak needs to have a burst heal. ALL classes need a burst heal. Tankblades have done literally nothing wrong why are they being punished?

Maybe a change will take them some time?
I play a NB Tank in all content and even on pts the skill isnt ***, such as ppl make it out to be.
Sure it lost almost the half of each tick, but that wont hit us nb tanks as hard as it looks on paper.

Blasphemy!
Revert Dark Cloak NOW!

I´m all in for a revert, but i think it may get adjusted, but not to the state it is in on live.

Colecovision

Baraber wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I know this is a pve related discussion but I would like to point out that in pvp if you have 25k health and you health for 4.5% that's 1125 which is actually 562 because healing is cut in half in pvp (unless I'm mistaken). That morph doesn't really seem like it will be worth slotting but you need an ability in that skill line to proc your major buffs (which only lasts 8 seconds).

It's not a pve only discussion, this change hurts every aspect of nightblade as tanky/brawling class, the dark cloak nerf pushes us further to the sneaky invisible glass cannon ganker pvp wise. And eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.

I used dark cloak for solo pve as well. vMA, vet dungeons and dlc world bosses mostly. I guess I'm supposed to switch to vigor, but there's no more minor endurance now and I'm locked into night mothers and slimecraw. That was barely manageable week 1, but then food nerfs hit week 2, I'm back to the drawing board. Kill to heal but heavy attack all the time? That's not fun.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Has anyone checked Dark Cloak to see if Minor Protection is being applied? Last week it wasn't showing Minor Protection on my buffs/debuffs.

It was showing up as dark cloak or something like that in cm, but there was a damage reduction for sure. I tested using 2 piece chudan to eliminate those buffs as a variable. I was really just testing to see if it did something vs nothing.

Jagdkommando

actosh wrote: »

The change ZOS did was that shield as well get stronger with your mitigation.

KatySpirit wrote: »

I am very disappointed that they have done nothing to actually make Dark Cloak a functional ability after the outcry the change was met with. Where is that front-loaded heal concept? I don't care if they make it require you have 5 pieces of heavy armor to activate it, Dark Cloak needs to have a burst heal. ALL classes need a burst heal. Tankblades have done literally nothing wrong why are they being punished?

Maybe a change will take them some time?
I play a NB Tank in all content and even on pts the skill isnt ***, such as ppl make it out to be.
Sure it lost almost the half of each tick, but that wont hit us nb tanks as hard as it looks on paper.

What are you?

actosh

Jagdkommando wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

The change ZOS did was that shield as well get stronger with your mitigation.

KatySpirit wrote: »

I am very disappointed that they have done nothing to actually make Dark Cloak a functional ability after the outcry the change was met with. Where is that front-loaded heal concept? I don't care if they make it require you have 5 pieces of heavy armor to activate it, Dark Cloak needs to have a burst heal. ALL classes need a burst heal. Tankblades have done literally nothing wrong why are they being punished?

Maybe a change will take them some time?
I play a NB Tank in all content and even on pts the skill isnt ***, such as ppl make it out to be.
Sure it lost almost the half of each tick, but that wont hit us nb tanks as hard as it looks on paper.

What are you?

Your Father?

Iron_Blurr

I like a lot of the changes they made

jypcy wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I know this is a pve related discussion but I would like to point out that in pvp if you have 25k health and you health for 4.5% that's 1125 which is actually 562 because healing is cut in half in pvp (unless I'm mistaken). That morph doesn't really seem like it will be worth slotting but you need an ability in that skill line to proc your major buffs (which only lasts 8 seconds).

It's not a pve only discussion, this change hurts every aspect of nightblade as tanky/brawling class, the dark cloak nerf pushes us further to the sneaky invisible glass cannon ganker pvp wise. And eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.

But y’all are hyperbolizing which is why I’m calling it out lol. No, I wouldn’t say reapers mark is as good as a typical self heal, but that user claiming a 40k gbd is something that “nothing even comes close” to is just not true.

Same now for your claim that this “eliminates every option of tanking pve wise.” Will it be as easy to tankblade in Elsweyr as it is on live now? Probably not, but it’ll still be doable. This isn’t a change I’m excited about but it’s not the end of the world.

Have you tanked any vet trials on a nightblade? going from around 5k health per second to 1800 on pts is more than a 50% nerf. That's not hyperbole. those are the actual numbers. Imagine if green dragon blood got a 65% healing nerf one patch. Then i can post on forums that it will be harder but its still doable to heal though things like baneful or rakaat gun on hm.