IARTOI wrote: »

Class is awesome but still need some balances.

First thing "Stalking Blastbones" skill has insane damage output. I saw in my recap 16.2k raw single damage. This skill needs a damage reduction. You can imagine that group of 3-4 necromancer can send up those bombers to destroy entire crowded groups in pvp. %25 damage reduction and increase the creation speed of skeleton 0.5 sec would be balanced.

The reason its so high right now is the crit rate on it is broken, wait till they fix that before sounding alarms, we can't get a accurate measure of it's damage until it's fixed.

IARTOI wrote: »

For ultimates: All 3 skill trees has high cost ultimates. Goliath and ressurection costs are OK. but summoning atronach could have less cost ofcourse with reduced damage for cost/strenght balance.

I don't know if you noticed, but the amount of ult the class can generate is pretty high, I think the cost for all the ults make perfect sense in light of that.

I really think the blast bones stamina morph that applies major defile should be universal to the skill and not just the stamina morph

Perhaps the stam morph can have a different effect?

Dracane wrote: »

Consider the tooltip of the blastbone. It's already high and ever necromancer, no matter what build, will use it.
My unbuffed Blastbone tooltip is 17k. If I get the 50% max bonus from the magicka morph and use empowering grasp on it, my blastbone tooltip is at 32k. This ability can get to insane heights, considering there is no way for you to avoid it really.

It can be kitted, and it only hits that hard cause of the crit bug, the class is strong yes, but I am not sure where you guys are getting 32k hits from. Empowered Grasp doesn't work on it either, by the way. Me and a friend tested that many times to see if it would work, and it really just does not. Could be a bug, but, in practical testing, its a strong ability that is janky, can be kitted, and sometimes suffers navigational issues. How about we look a the bugs before we try to gut at ability that might be perfectly fine.

I probably sound like a white knight for the class, believe me I understand there is issues, but a lot of it's balance is in the new mechanics it's introduces, which makes it hard to measure on paper, because there is so much wrapped up in practical application. Not to mention all the bugs we are dealing with

as an experienced DK Tank on live in vet trials and a 'challenger' hunter in dungeons I went to make a maximized necrotank on PTS. After testing my necrotank in overland content as well as trials I must say I like it alot in general and see it very workable except on the following pain points:


Selfheal: whenever a target is in reach the scythe selfheal morph is strong, useful and functional as DK green dragonblood is. But I honestly don't see me jumping down the ledge and running towards Z'maja all the way on the other side in portals while the heavy dot kills me in 4 ticks and I have no target in range...rip Please change this skill not to require a target to heal !

Selfshield: I don't see any equivalent for a serious selfshield such as e.g DK igneous shield either. By itself that would be ok if the selfheal above would not require a target

Selfsustain: I find my stamina dropping real fast tbh and the only class native non-ultimate skill I see to help with that ("Expunge" morph) seems to be dependant on a never ending flood of negative effects on me ?? Utterly useless when it's just me and a big dragon. Compared to worry free DK auto selfsustain through passives with freedom of choice this is a joke really. Unfortunately a very bad one

In addition NO magicka-based spammable chainpull skill (the passive does NOT cut it !) means silver leash is our only means of targeted intended pulling and drains our stamina even further !

What are your favorite and least Necromancer abilities, and why?

The graveyard ability where the player can activate his own synergy, I was really hoping other classes would get an ability like this. This opens up entire gear sets when playing solo and in PUGS when you don't know if you are going to be receiving synergies


Do the Necromancer’s visuals and themes feel unique compared to other classes?

There is defiantly a few particle effects that are just a color re-skin but overall I think the class has a unique visual feel and on the whole looks very good.
The armor ability feels like a slight rework of the DK armor ability although I know there are differences.



Do the Necromancer’s abilities and playstyle feel unique compared to other classes?

The corpse mechanic is defiantly unique. I ill come back this after some more time with the class.



Did you enjoy the Necromancer’s corpse generation/corpse spending gameplay?

Will come back to this same as above after some more time.

First take, with the mechanic and several interesting skill choices my first time through I felt like i was defiantly having to make some tough choices about skills to put on m bar.

My first impression of stam dancer, you can defiantly use a lot more class skills then other classes, not sure how it will play out for end game BIS slot builds but it will defiantly be interesting and promotes changing skills around more then other classes I've played.


Did you receive a bounty for using “Criminal Act” Necromancer abilities in towns? If so, what are your thoughts on the experience?

I didn't not but i also did not drag my dead army into town.


Were you aware certain Necromancer abilities were considered “Criminal Acts” prior to using these abilities in towns?

yes



Does the Necromancer feel faithful to established lore and themes in The Elder Scrolls?

Cant answer this one Im not familiar enough with the lore.




Do you plan on playing a Necromancer as your new “main” character when Update 22 goes live?

I will create one but it will sit awhile. While the ability to purchase sky shards achievements is nice add depending on the price point the idea of sky shard hunting,, skill points, alliance points, mages guild, fighters guild, undaunted, and psijic just to be able to play at a level I can on my other five characters is an annoyance and something I will take slowly. It took me 8 months to get a Warden just to a basic level where I would play it regularly



Do you have any other general feedback?

The lack of access to major brutality and major sorcery really hurts my particular play style. Its one of the main reason i do not play much templar. I know endgame players really on potions but unlesss Im joining a endgame veteran raid or Vet DLC dungeon I save my money and potions. With so many interesting skills stamina skills finding a place for flying blade on a DW/Bow (my preferred play style) or rally from 2 handed stamina DPS build is very problematic. Its not going to take the place of venom skull as a spammable because of the damage buff, rally or morph can easily find its way onto PVP build.

(as an aside change the passive in fighter guild and mages guild, slotting either dawn breaker or meator gives major brutality to sorcery???? / just another way to get the buff outside potions.

Don't really have an answer and I know its a balancing act and doesn't effect a large player base play style just something I noticed.

The ultimates are amazing visually and functionally I going to guess they are going to be tamped down before going live but everyone outdid themselves here, the colossus and group res are going to change the way people play a majority of content in the game.

Blastbones(morphs) should be summon you can summon out of combat with no target and run around with a few seconds.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

Why necro-pets - target? In pvp it`s rly OP, pets take all my damage. And the ghost! Are you seriously? The skill absorbs 10% of damage, which is equivalent to the whole set of Swift, isn't it a bit too much? You also take the Major Defile from the Nightblade, but give the opportunity to endlessly use it to a necromancer, this is too much like a buy-to-win. I am extremely dissatisfied with the balancing of this class now, it is too superior to the rest in pvp.

For one, you cannot endlessly use major defile on all aspects of Necromancer. Stamina Necromancer is the only one with access to it.

For two, the Blastbones damage isn't even correct right now because it's critting way more than it should, so we can't even determine a proper average of what it can even do.

Third, you have a choice between more healing, and less healing with some damage mitigation for the pet. The class doesn't have many ways to mitigate damage, has a delayed fear, and to obtain your minor protection buff you need to stand in one spot. It's not built to kite as much as a NB, and is definitely a more stand-your-ground class. You are comparing two completely different classes to each other because you're salty about NB nerfs.

Fourth, once Blastbones is fixed and (most likely) the damage toned down a bit, there is nothing else in the Necromancer toolkit that is even super imbalanced. It seems people just want to hop on this "omfg this is pay-to-win" bandwagon, but have nothing to even back up their claims.

You are unsatisfied with the "balancing" of a new class that isn't even terrifyingly broken in the slightest because NB received nerfs. NB is a completely different issue, and there are threads for it.

Now if you were to say "Stamina Necromancer probably shouldn't have access to both heal absorb and major defile" instead of "you took major defile from my super cheap ultimate that gives me a damage boost omfg wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh," maybe your feedback would actually be valid.

Only for Major Defile nightblade need to use the ultimate, and the stamina-necromancer can use it constantly, while imposing on a group of opponents and protecting themselves with a target skeleton.

As it stands, Necromancer DDs (both stamina and magicka) can position corpses right next to the enemy they're fighting by casting Blastbones. I think it would make sense for tanks and healers to also be able to place corpses where they're most needed - perhaps Bone Totem should spawn a corpse when it expires? That would make it easier to get value out of Life amid Death and Restoring Tether.

bluebird wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

However a huge problem I had was that playing with a lot of necro skills on my bar made me nauseous. I only noticed after some time, but I definitely felt sick after playing around on the dummy for a few minutes. I'm not sure if anybody else had this issue, or if it's just me, please let me know, others here.

i have to agree with you i found it very intense at times,
i have to be careful as it is with games as they can make me very nauseous and i also found the necro skills had a huge impact on me they look great and im loving the new class but definitely feel as though i couldnt play the class as a main more just a fun mess around right now which is a shame as im loving the class

My toughts on Necromancer Healer (PvE-Trials)

What are your favorite and least Necromancer abilities, and why?
Favorite: So far is Reanimate, it feels useful, even if good groups should not need it.
Least liked: The tethers feel weird

Do the Necromancer’s visuals and themes feel unique compared to other classes?
Yes

Do the Necromancer’s abilities and playstyle feel unique compared to other classes?
Yes and no. Support roles in trials are already expected to bring a lot: heal, resource regen, buff, debuff, even stamina morphs like spiders or bone surge, which raises the question: what do necros need to give up on an already crunched skill bar? This is beause you have a limited amount of class slots, and some passives in the skills kind of demand you to be there. I would like a bit more of flexibility in that regard (I already slot inner light for the passive and the passives from the skill line, but it's itself a wasted slot)

Did you enjoy the Necromancer’s corpse generation/corpse spending gameplay?
Corpse mechanic is interesting but needs to last longer. While it is a nice addition, most useful effects from a Necro are gated behind a corpse, and forces you to time your skills for great effect (rewarding). This, however, results extremely punishing in Trials if for example you know you will need the extra AoE healing for an incoming damage phase but have your corpse disappear due to small active timer (frustrating).
Proposed solution to explore: Reactivating any of the corpse summons kills it (creating a corpse, no longer behind a ~4-sec cd) and returns a bit of resource based on timer left. This way you keep the shot corpse timer to play around with but provide a way to place a corpse when you actually need it.

Did you receive a bounty for using “Criminal Act” Necromancer abilities in towns? If so, what are your thoughts on the experience?
Not yet

Were you aware certain Necromancer abilities were considered “Criminal Acts” prior to using these abilities in towns?
Yes, the message is clear

Does the Necromancer feel faithful to established lore and themes in The Elder Scrolls?
I'm no expert in this part, I do think Render Flesh could be reworked (see below)

Do you plan on playing a Necromancer as your new “main” character when Update 22 goes live?
I wanted to, because I liked how the warden turned out, however, for the healing role its on par with NB/DK on utility provided, but way below on healing done, so I'm having second toughts.

Do you have any other general feedback?

• What is the philosophy behind Curative Curse? I get this passive was made around Render Flesh, but I don't think a passive made for one skill deserves that slot. Proposed solution to explore: Increase healing % based on the amount of negative effects the enemies around you have on them (take the enemy with the highest negative effects, halved for pvp, cap it to a % if necessary)
• And talking about Render Flesh... If you wanted an edgy skill like the bloot-letting nightblade I don't think this one reaches that level of player fantasy. Necromancers are not blood mages, so this means that what they sacrifice are others. Proposed solution to explore: Set to half the value at base. Sacrifice a summon on cast to double the healing done and create a corpse, but does not return resources as for reactivating it.
• Most of the Necro roles provide utility in the form of synergies... except healers. This also leaves the necro with the same problem NBs and DKs face: Some tanks will not be happy to work with one because of the lack of synergies to provide.
  • Boneyard and morphs: A Necro tank could, in theory, keep Alkosh uptime by relying in one external synergy and his own in-between. This is an advantage gor Necrotanks but Healcros don't really have a use for that skill: They apply Ele Drain not for the Major Breach but for the Minor Magickasteal it provides.
  • Bone Totem: This one is weird, although I kind of get the reasoning behind this: you wanted to circumvent the need to use a synergy on the tank by offering a way to raise dps directly from this skill. And while Alkosh is ultimately used to raise dps by reducing defenses, it is used because that reduction is not tied to the Minor/Major sytem and thus stacks. The Minor Vulnerability offered by the synergy morph doesn't stack with the Minor Vulnerability provided by support roles or magsorcs, so it doesn't really help in raising group dps. And the protective-and-mobile morph can be used to reach the tank... but it offers no synergy. Also, the 9.5 sec duration feels odd, I think it should either be lowered to keep in place with D-AoE or increased to match defensive ones.
  • None of the Living Death skills provide a synergy, in spite of being the support role.
  Proposed solution to explore: I would focus on the Unnerving Boneyard morph, changing it to a 28-m area, with 15 sec duration that causes no damage at all, and applies Minor Lifesteal to all enemies standing on said area, an ally can still use the existing synergy. This also avoids using some Grave Lord passives which prevents abuse by damage roles: Death Knell will not be 100% active since most healers slot drain skills on the back; nor you, as a support role, need the extra damage. Finally Rapid Rot doesn't offer anything for this morph because damage was removed.
• Rename Near-Death Experience and Undead Confederate :c

Thannazzar wrote: »

Disappointed by the lack of Stam morphs for all Necro Skills.

Playing a Necro is the biggest draw for the new chapter. Would be good to play a full Stam Necro rather that a weapon wielder with a couple of Necro abilities.

Are you new to this game? Have you played a StamSorc? lmao. As someone who has played a StamSorc as a main for nearly two years now I am overjoyed with how many usable Stam abilities StamNecro has.

I am a bit baffled by the lack of necromantic servants being present. The Blastbones takes longer to form/spawn than the duration of its existence, it disappears in an instant. The mending spirit is more so baffling as its upgrade makes the minion last for half of its original duration. While gameplay wise the increased healing is nice, fantasy wise it does the opposite of what it should be doing. If anything, it should spawn two of them or a wraith with increased duration and power.

The Flesh Titan ultimate is visually awesome, it has power too - but you're having us conjure forth a flesh golem which disappears after two seconds when the fantasy demands for it to linger on for a while longer. I'd rather see it quickly do its main purpose and then stick around on the ground and smack people every 5 seconds if they don't move away. It might not be very impactful beyond its first two seconds, but at least it would feel good to have it around for a bit.

The bone totem/fetish I don't really get, it looks rather goofy rather than macabre - I would rather see it replaced with some stationary skeletal ritualist or a ghost of sorts which channels its effect. More undead!

The Skeleton Mage / Bone Archer is the one true summon, yes, unfortunately, temporary but they last long enough and are resummoned in an instant so their presence and fantasy are still maintained. What baffles me though, and what I would like to see and would expect for a necromancer to reanimate would be the two most basic of undead servants - zombies and skeleton warriors.

Please, give the class the ability to call forth two skeletons armed with one handed or two handed blades and act as a bit of melee DPS or appliers of a debuff, while a morph would replace them with an armored skeleton with a sword and shield with a taunt ability, or just visually upgrade the two warriors with some minor power or duration boost.



More undead.

Right now we have a ranged minion on a duration.
A flesh golem as a costly ultimate which only makes an appearance for two seconds.
An unstable, exploding skeleton which takes longer to spawn in than what it lasts for its existence.
A healing ghost which upgrade path halves its duration.

In the end, it would be one thing if we could bring forth multiple of these minions and have them continuously swarm the enemy, to sell the necromancer's power fantasy, but that isn't the case.

More undead, either in quantity or in type with a somewhat more lasting duration. Skeleton Warriors - Wanted. Ghouls/Zombies - Maybe?
Right now the Necromancer class has a larger quantity of unimpressive tether-beam effects than it has undead.

arpadsweb16_ESO wrote: »

More undead.

Agree. Flesh Atronach ultimate can be mobile summon with duration round 8-16 seconds. With some corrosive/acid aura or AoE splashes which applies Major Vulnerability. Because of this acid Flesh Atronach will decay after 8-16 seconds, and will disappear. Overall less damage, and longer Major Vulnerability debuff.

What are your favorite and least Necromancer abilities, and why?

• So far my favorites are hard to say because there's a lot of them that definitely work for my playstyle. I'd say if I had to choose my least favorite, it's probably the bone totems as they're not very reliable. I haven't tried the range, so maybe that's my cup of tea for it.

Do the Necromancer’s visuals and themes feel unique compared to other classes?

• I think the visuals and themes definitely work for the class. I will say that there needs to be better visual cues for corpse management. It's difficult for some to tell whose corpse is whose.

Do the Necromancer’s abilities and playstyle feel unique compared to other classes?

• Very. I do like the corpse mechanic. The pets are also a nice addition, however there's a bug where sorcs CANNOT use Streak against an enemy if you have Skeletal Mage (and it's morphs) or Spirit Mender active and you're in a duel (and I'm going to assume Cyrodiil). I've bug reported it, I encourage others to bug report it and test as well. Other than that, things were super fluid aside from light weaving issues with the restoration staff (it's clunky with Flame/Ricochet Skull).

Did you enjoy the Necromancer’s corpse generation/corpse spending gameplay?

• I did! But again, there needs to be better visual cues for personal corpses, especially with Cyrodiil.

Did you receive a bounty for using “Criminal Act” Necromancer abilities in towns? If so, what are your thoughts on the experience?

• I did! I briefly tested it. I think it's an interesting way of playing. Dueled someone in Wayrest and at first I didn't incur a bounty. But as I got closer to NPCs, there my bounty went! So after duels, necromancers are gon' hafta ruuuuuuuuun. It went from 277-3k in just a few moments.

Were you aware certain Necromancer abilities were considered “Criminal Acts” prior to using these abilities in towns?

• Yes and I still used them anyways. Tbh, if people use them near 'safe' NPCs, they deserve the bounty as they were warned.

Does the Necromancer feel faithful to established lore and themes in The Elder Scrolls?

• At first I was a little bummed that we didn't get the Bone Dragon Breath ult, but then I remembered that not every necromancer has seen a dragon before. I will say this though; Abnar Tharn better not say "We'll make a necromancer out of you yet".

Do you plan on playing a Necromancer as your new “main” character when Update 22 goes live?

• I do! Two, maybe three. It depends on what happens through the PTS cycles and what you guys break.

Do you have any other general feedback?
I have a few things!

• Blastbones definitely needs to be toned down.
• Don't remove the ability to use emotes and mementos from the Goliath transformations as it's hilarious, fun, and doesn't hurt anyone.
• Fix the Necro-pet Streak bug for sorcs, else they'll definitely cry when they can't zip through doors/breaches.
• Better visual cues for player owned corpses.
• Keep the class fluid. How it feels right now, how the abilities work mechanically (omitting values) is less clunky than playing other base classes. Don't frack it up.

Thannazzar wrote: »

Disappointed by the lack of Stam morphs for all Necro Skills.

Playing a Necro is the biggest draw for the new chapter. Would be good to play a full Stam Necro rather that a weapon wielder with a couple of Necro abilities.

majulook wrote: »

What are your favorite and least Necromancer abilities, and why?
Not sure yet. concern is that only 2 skills have stamina morphs.
Appears that this class will be Magic based only

Do you have any other general feedback?
Needs more stamina based skills. As it is now it seems to be only a magic based class. or maybe some sort of hybrid if you want to play it with anything other that staffs.

The problem with attaching so many Stamina morphs to class skills is that it really limits Magicka builds. As I said in another thread, while I get that Stamina players may not like relying on a "generic" toolkit as much as they do, it's not like that toolkit is in any way bad or weak, and it's a much larger toolkit than Magicka has. For PvE offense, Stamina gets 3 weapon line options to Magicka's 1, and for PvP Stamina gets a 4th (1h/shield can be amazingly powerful with the right player and build), while Magicka still just has 1 (and honestly not a particularly good one, at that). Adding a bunch of Stamina morphs for class abilities just limits the options for Magicka players further.