PTS Update 22 - Feedback Thread for Necromancer

Caligamy_ESO

TheValkyn wrote: »

Necro gains ulti wayyy too fast and also has access to one of the best ulti's in the game. Necrotic Potency needs a cooldown. 60+ ulti from a trash pull from using one instant cast, zero cost ability. Pair that with meteor and bloodspawn you can have back to back ultis.

When I was dps testing with a realistic set of slotted skills for a combat setup I found the Ult generation was fine, maybe even slow. Sure if you slot a bunch of skills to specifically exploit generating ult its going to be fast, but its going to be terrible at actually sustaining damage.

IARTOI wrote: »

First thing "Stalking Blastbones" skill has insane damage output. I saw in my recap 16.2k raw single damage. This skill needs a damage reduction. You can imagine that group of 3-4 necromancer can send up those bombers to destroy entire crowded groups in pvp. %25 damage reduction and increase the creation speed of skeleton 0.5 sec would be balanced.

This is what my first impression was as well, until I hopped onto my Sorc and dueled a few buddies for hours on end. Holding block before the impact of the blastbones negates nearly all of the damage done by it. Also as a sorc I was able to just CC & utterly destroy them before they even had a chance to begin running to me so it became a useless skill once I was prepared for it.

Toc de Malsvi

Seems pretty fun and well designed class synergy. Feels pretty ridiculously OP though, perhaps some values need to be tweaked down a bit. Found it was pretty easy to hit 70k on the new dummy without much thought.

VeiledCriticism

I loved the necro. As people stated before, all skills are useful for various playstyles and made me have a hard time when deciding which one to not slot. It clearly have its own identity. I used “Criminal Act” skills in town the second after I read they were a criminal act. It does make the game more immersive.

My biggest complaint is that MagNecro are underperforming so much compared to stamina counter parts. Most of which due to weapons passives. Please do not nerf base skills from the class, only stam morphs seems to be OP right now.

PS: Skeleton Mage's lighting attack does not proc Illabrims monster helm.

Nerouyn

Corpses are difficult to see.

The "here's a corpse" effect is the same colour as most necro ability effects so they're essentially camouflaged.

Overall, they're ok.

Weps

What are your favorite and least Necromancer abilities, and why?
I'm still wrapping my head around them, being testing them on 3-4 roles at the same time and it's getting kinda difficult memorising all the different failed metal band names that the skills resemble.
So far I like the Syphon, the Scythe and the skull mainly.

Do the Necromancer’s visuals and themes feel unique compared to other classes?
Absolutely. Stunning visual and unique gameplay that is going to crash everyone's game once it hits consoles group-play scenarios.

Do the Necromancer’s abilities and playstyle feel unique compared to other classes?
The gameplay is truly amazing and feels really unique. Seems like the combat team stripped all the uniqueness from other classes and put them on the Necromancer.

Did you enjoy the Necromancer’s corpse generation/corpse spending gameplay?
Very well designed, nothing to say about that ( tipping my hat ).
I like the fact that the main class mechanic will make the difference between a good and bad player because of how good a player will get with the whole corpse spending thing.

Did you receive a bounty for using “Criminal Act” Necromancer abilities in towns? If so, what are your thoughts on the experience?
Were you aware certain Necromancer abilities were considered “Criminal Acts” prior to using these abilities in towns?
Yes. A little too harsh, being killed for summoning an harmless spirit.
And yes, still sometimes you're not thinking about it because you're not used to this mechanic.

Does the Necromancer feel faithful to established lore and themes in The Elder Scrolls?
Pass. Not much of a lore addict so I leave this to people who would care more about it. The only thing I'd say is that they don't feel different compared to the NPC necromancer you can randomly encounter all over Nirn.

Do you plan on playing a Necromancer as your new “main” character when Update 22 goes live?
I don't have a main character, so yes I will spend a little bit of time on my Necromancer(s).
Hopefully you will be reasonable and give us enough free slots to fulfill our Necromancing needs ( woah, this came out veeeery wrong).

Do you have any other general feedback?
The class is embarassingly overperforming and is way too much compared to other classes.
My only feedback is to take this as example for future rework of the classes and passives because the unique playstyle and the sheer sense of power you get from doing essentially nothing is a good feeling that everyone should have access to, regardless if they've payed an extra to get the class or not.

Weps

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Yes, could we get a list of Necromancer skills for us console peasants please? I'm soooo excited for the class, I must feed my hype.

Dude. I'm a console plebe too and the entire web is FULL of websites with all the skills and passives.
They've been out there for a month and half at this point.
A little less conversation, a little more research next time will get you far:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Necromancer
https://www.learneso.net/all-necromancer-abilities-passives-and-morphs/
https://dottzgaming.com/blog/necromancer-skills-passives-elsweyr/

Lapin_Logic

"Well Done Vestige, You are the saviour of Tamriel, defender of the needy and giver to the Destitute, Favourite of Lady Meridia and member of the Psijiic ord..... BY YSGRAMOR'S BEARD YOU JUST STRAPPED A RIB CAGE TO YOURSELF, GUARDS, GUARDS 1000 GOLD BOUNTY ON THAT MAN, yes I am aware he probably saved 4 entire villages to earn that gold"

I can understand NPC's running and screaming to help people be "Immersed in their RP" of a Necromancer, However I can't understand a Brand new player picking up Elsweyr and ending up with more bounties than Gold (that take hours to lose) or the "Immersion" of the Hero of Tamriel wearing "primal style armour" made of bones, a skeleton polymorph, or the "Black Hand Robes" using Fighters Guild "Spiked Bone Shield" Riding a NECROMANTIC "Skeletal Guar" mount then performing a "momento black sacrament" being repeatedly slapped with fines or milked for gold for simply having a class skill skeleton following you or whatever..

TLDR
Fleeing NPC In a Town = Ok

Bounty being placed by lone merchant in the woods or close friend/Quest NPC or Residents of the town you just rescued and rebuilt = Nonsense

Get rid of the Fine/Bounty! By Sithis!

profundidob16_ESO

XomRhoK wrote: »

arpadsweb16_ESO wrote: »

More undead.

Agree. Flesh Atronach ultimate can be mobile summon with duration round 8-16 seconds. With some corrosive/acid aura or AoE splashes which applies Major Vulnerability. Because of this acid Flesh Atronach will decay after 8-16 seconds, and will disappear. Overall less damage, and longer Major Vulnerability debuff.

agree as well. More undead should be spawned in general or more accurately maybe: more necro skills and or abilities (could even be triggered by some passives) should be spawning shortliving undead pretty much like blastbones so you would litteraly always have 3+ undead alive and running as part of an optimized necro dps/healer/tank rotation

profundidob16_ESO

Nerouyn wrote: »

Corpses are difficult to see.

The "here's a corpse" effect is the same colour as most necro ability effects so they're essentially camouflaged.

Overall, they're ok.

agreed. During the killing an overland dragon with 16 other people I kept wondering: "which one is MY corpse ?"

Aurielle

Question for those of you who PVP in no-CP/BGs (I’m a console pleb, no PTS): what’s looking better at the moment? Stam necro or mag necro?

Vexarius

saganblackblade wrote: »

After toying with the stam necro i like the feel for the most part. I like the positional play, i like the feel, i like the look and animations. My one makor complaint about the feel is that the scythe doesnt seem to be a must for anyone’s end game pve kit. Would have liked to see it be an option for spammable or at least something worth having in rotation.

I agree about the scythe. I would like it to have more use as a spammable, currently it’s too weak compared to my flame skull. It makes me think of a melee version of swallow soul.

Glory

Reserving judgement on stamina/magicka necromancer until pets are fixed.

Tried health based necromancer last night, was happy to say that it seemed reasonably effective in dueling environments without being either weak nor good. Was concerned they would become gross with health skills and the Bone Colossus ultimate, and while the damage was moderate it was nowhere near as efficient as a magicka or stamina build.

Thraben

Aurielle wrote: »

Question for those of you who PVP in no-CP/BGs (I’m a console pleb, no PTS): what’s looking better at the moment? Stam necro or mag necro?

Depends on your playstyle.


1) If you like standing on the walls doing some ranged attacks, a MagNecro might be fun. Just don´t move away from your factions` zerg. Their ranged AoE DPS is the strongest of all classes. But they are the most vulnerable of all the magicka classes, too. Frost staff and Vamp more or less required.

2) For battlegrounds I guess a FrostNecro is viable.

3) StamNecro is comparable to StamTemplar, however with a focus on AoE damage, and organized enemies. They are ballgroup hunters, essentially.

khemdog

Class is aids in pvp, 500 pets running around cant target anyone, gg zos

Cellentel

I agree with the suggestion that it should be able to cast blastbones without a target. It already changes targets or waits around if you kill its original target between when you cast it and when it spawns, so this would make it behave consistently.

Weps

Aurielle wrote: »

Question for those of you who PVP in no-CP/BGs (I’m a console pleb, no PTS): what’s looking better at the moment? Stam necro or mag necro?

The main issues of the class is that they both have range abilities hitting like a truck.
They both rely a lot on the whole corpse mechanics and tbh a good necro that knows how to play with it can be ridicolously difficult to kill and they both have access to amazing tool for sustain.
A bad necro will be *** in both spec in No-CP, will probably be like the pet sorcs heavy attacking behind the Zoo wall right now. With the difference that they will simply kamikaze AoE bomb you the whole match.

I'm console plebe too, just buy the game and you can get PTS and see everything you want.

DirkRavenclaw

Ankael07 wrote: »

Necromancers can get 34 ulti points per 20 seconds outside of combat right now (with a combination of 4 skills). I dont think its intended for any class to do this

The skills are: Necrotic Potency, Intensive Mender, Skeleton Archer/Arcanist and Bone Armor (Corpse consumption passive from Living Death skill line)

Im getting a minimum of 30 ulti points in under 20 seconds with my PVP Stam DK, max cp lvl, without problems on Live Server

Weps

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Necromancers can get 34 ulti points per 20 seconds outside of combat right now (with a combination of 4 skills). I dont think its intended for any class to do this

The skills are: Necrotic Potency, Intensive Mender, Skeleton Archer/Arcanist and Bone Armor (Corpse consumption passive from Living Death skill line)

Im getting a minimum of 30 ulti points in under 20 seconds with my PVP Stam DK, max cp lvl, without problems on Live Server

Yeah but you're probably doing it in combat, with the help of some sets like Bloodspawn or Werewolf hide.
Here we're talking about out of combat, using only your skills.
I agree that something should be done to control the ulti gen a little.

Malprave

I rolled a Stamcro , put him in Briarheart and Tzogvin's, then ran him around the Spellscar and have to say it was a blast.

What are your favorite and least Necromancer abilities, and why?

Blighted Blastbones was great for weaving in between every couple attacks on the main bar. Detonating Syphon was completely underwhelming. Couldn't tell if it was doing anything at all.

Do the Necromancer’s visuals and themes feel unique compared to other classes?

The visuals were great fun. Totally enjoyed them.

Do the Necromancer’s abilities and playstyle feel unique compared to other classes?

I don't think the gameplay on the stamina version of this class was much different than my other stamina characters. But, I did think it was very powerfull and smooth considering I had just rolled that class for the first time. It was easy to get high stamina regen especially with the archer and the undead confederate passive.

Did you enjoy the Necromancer’s corpse generation/corpse spending gameplay?

I liked that once your first summoned archer dies you have a body on the ground to work with. Between archers and blastbones corpses I always had a body to work with.

Did you receive a bounty for using “Criminal Act” Necromancer abilities in towns? If so, what are your thoughts on the experience?

No.

Were you aware certain Necromancer abilities were considered “Criminal Acts” prior to using these abilities in towns?

Yes.

Does the Necromancer feel faithful to established lore and themes in The Elder Scrolls?

Yes.

Do you plan on playing a Necromancer as your new “main” character when Update 22 goes live?

I will definitely play one.

Do you have any other general feedback?

I did use the Bone Armor and enjoyed the visual, but I ended up dropping Bone Surge from the undaunted line into that slot which I thought fit the theme and it worked great

wheem_ESO

Aurielle wrote: »

Question for those of you who PVP in no-CP/BGs (I’m a console pleb, no PTS): what’s looking better at the moment? Stam necro or mag necro?

I made a thread with some of my observations on Magicka Necromancer in Battlegrounds - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/469164/necromancer-mechanics-in-battlegrounds

As of right this minute, Stamina Necromancers are vastly superior to their Magicka brethren in an offensive PvP role. The Blastbones issue(s) mentioned in the thread I started should be less of a problem, since you'll generally be casting from melee range anyway, and you get the rest of the Stamina toolkit to go along with it. Realistically, Magicka Necromancers have 2 worthwhile damaging abilities right now - Blastbones and the Ricochet Skull spammable...both of which are also available to Stamina. But Stamina also gets 2 proc'd bleeds, Rending Slashes, Carve (a Stam Sorc I know from live hit me in a PTS-BG for ~4.3k up front damage, while my physical resists were in the mid-20k range, plus it has a bleed DOT, obviously), and actual executes (I've had the "new" Spin-to-Win hit for > 6k in BGs, just in a bit smaller radius). Oh and their Blastbones morph has a Major Defile attached to it.

Weps wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Question for those of you who PVP in no-CP/BGs (I’m a console pleb, no PTS): what’s looking better at the moment? Stam necro or mag necro?

The main issues of the class is that they both have range abilities hitting like a truck.
They both rely a lot on the whole corpse mechanics and tbh a good necro that knows how to play with it can be ridicolously difficult to kill and they both have access to amazing tool for sustain.
A bad necro will be *** in both spec in No-CP, will probably be like the pet sorcs heavy attacking behind the Zoo wall right now. With the difference that they will simply kamikaze AoE bomb you the whole match.

I'm console plebe too, just buy the game and you can get PTS and see everything you want.

The corpse mechanic isn't working very well at all right now, as I laid out in the other thread (and has been mentioned by others as well), and what "amazing tool for sustain" are you referring to? The only ability that restores Magicka costs more than you'll get back over its duration, and you won't even get that full resource return if you don't spend the entire 12 seconds within range of the corpse. The self-cleanse that restores resources will cost you health, and is going to be totally unusable in cases where you're taking heavy heat and not getting outside heals.

Also, the only Necromancer "pet" that's targetable is the Blastbones. While that can be an issue (I've targeted my Blastbones at other people's newly spawning in Blastbones on accident, lots of times), it's not on the same level as a Pet Sorc. Especially since targeting the Blastbones with roots/CC can actually make a big difference, whereas it doesn't against a Pet Sorc. And if you shut down a Magicka Necromancer's Blastbones...you shut down his entire offense.

highkingnm

Now with a few days hands on I want to add more details thoughts.

Stammancer is, in my opinion, in a really good place. The DPS I pull is similar to my stamden and rotations are not simple, requiring tethers to sustain, meaning that bodies NEED to be about. This is a good limitation on the raw power of the class and means that it will be weaker at some content and stronger at others. Have a feeling it’ll be BiS for vMA and for those melee slots in trash-heavier trials. For more stack and burn fights it’ll be subpar. I like that, gives it a role. Sustain relies on good uptime for stam morph of restoring tether meaning there is a healthy DPS vs sustain trade off.

Magmancer is probably a bit too powerful. I am not great as a DPS (my best parse on live with mostly ideal purple gear/gold weapons is 40k on petsorc and 37k on stamden) and was able to hit 43k self-buffed on 3mil and 6mil with a pretty poor rotation. 62k on the new trial dummy (my petsorc with all gold gear hit 59k with near flawless rotation). I can only imagine the numbers people with cleaner rotations are doing on the thing. Guildmate was pulling about 90k on PTS (take it with a grain of salt maybe, but they got it down very fast). The sustain is amazing, perhaps too much so. I never went below 60% Magicka on my Breton Magmancer with no heavy attacks in rotation and trash pots. I think a nerf to base sustain but a mag restore morph to restoring tether could balance it out. This would be a lot like stam in requiring tether be kept up, meaning that’s one less corpse for boneyard or siphon to use. At present you need three corpses to get the maximum DPS from stam but two for mag. This means I have to keep killing my skeletal archer (losing a second or so of DPS and having to take a break in DPS to cast tether or boneyard) whereas I can keep mage up and just use the bone bomber thing (can’t recall the name) to create a corpse per rotation, meaning I only lack siphon for a second or two each rotation and get 100% boneyard with corpse bonus uptime. Ironically, this need not to create three corpses across each rotation, instead only needing 2, means sustain is EVEN better, as I have one less ability to cast. Having to create a third corpse by killing mage could tune the DPS enough to make Magmancer strong but balanced, but this requires a sustain nerf (if you listen to me I know I will regret this).

Necro healer. I had a lot of fun with this, did nFV with a DPS and had no problem. Life amid Death (or whatever it is called) is a viable alternative to healing springs when there is trash around. DPS output is slightly lower than Templar, but mostly because of lack of shards. Biggest problem is that they are situational. In fights with very little trash they will be fairly poor healers, but in large trash fights (first pack HRC, post-portal in CR) they will be very effective. Not sure whether I want more consistency, feels like it is in a fairly good place at the moment but might be worth raising the floor, perhaps making heals slightly stronger without corpses but trading off by curtailing the heals from corpse consumption (Life Amid Death goes from a fairly weak HoT to clear best in the game simply by having a corpse there. If it went from average to equal best in the game that might be better).

Overall I think the highs are highs and the lows are low. Corpses are the vital mechanic and I love that, but at the moment Magmancer doesn’t need it to the extent I feel would make it balanced. Heals is good, but not sure if I will make one on live yet. The DPS are both definitely in line.

Will roll a tank in the next few days and feed back after a few runs.

Sonic_113

Maybe it is just me but, lore wise it feels odd being a necromancer and the "hero" of the story. Wouldn't those that fight alongside me have issues with me being a necro.

Aurielle

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Question for those of you who PVP in no-CP/BGs (I’m a console pleb, no PTS): what’s looking better at the moment? Stam necro or mag necro?

I made a thread with some of my observations on Magicka Necromancer in Battlegrounds - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/469164/necromancer-mechanics-in-battlegrounds

As of right this minute, Stamina Necromancers are vastly superior to their Magicka brethren in an offensive PvP role. The Blastbones issue(s) mentioned in the thread I started should be less of a problem, since you'll generally be casting from melee range anyway, and you get the rest of the Stamina toolkit to go along with it. Realistically, Magicka Necromancers have 2 worthwhile damaging abilities right now - Blastbones and the Ricochet Skull spammable...both of which are also available to Stamina. But Stamina also gets 2 proc'd bleeds, Rending Slashes, Carve (a Stam Sorc I know from live hit me in a PTS-BG for ~4.3k up front damage, while my physical resists were in the mid-20k range, plus it has a bleed DOT, obviously), and actual executes (I've had the "new" Spin-to-Win hit for > 6k in BGs, just in a bit smaller radius). Oh and their Blastbones morph has a Major Defile attached to it.

Weps wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Question for those of you who PVP in no-CP/BGs (I’m a console pleb, no PTS): what’s looking better at the moment? Stam necro or mag necro?

The main issues of the class is that they both have range abilities hitting like a truck.
They both rely a lot on the whole corpse mechanics and tbh a good necro that knows how to play with it can be ridicolously difficult to kill and they both have access to amazing tool for sustain.
A bad necro will be *** in both spec in No-CP, will probably be like the pet sorcs heavy attacking behind the Zoo wall right now. With the difference that they will simply kamikaze AoE bomb you the whole match.

I'm console plebe too, just buy the game and you can get PTS and see everything you want.

The corpse mechanic isn't working very well at all right now, as I laid out in the other thread (and has been mentioned by others as well), and what "amazing tool for sustain" are you referring to? The only ability that restores Magicka costs more than you'll get back over its duration, and you won't even get that full resource return if you don't spend the entire 12 seconds within range of the corpse. The self-cleanse that restores resources will cost you health, and is going to be totally unusable in cases where you're taking heavy heat and not getting outside heals.

Also, the only Necromancer "pet" that's targetable is the Blastbones. While that can be an issue (I've targeted my Blastbones at other people's newly spawning in Blastbones on accident, lots of times), it's not on the same level as a Pet Sorc. Especially since targeting the Blastbones with roots/CC can actually make a big difference, whereas it doesn't against a Pet Sorc. And if you shut down a Magicka Necromancer's Blastbones...you shut down his entire offense.

Thanks for the feedback. I have to say, a ranged stamnecro defiler seems like it might be fun...

wheem_ESO

Aurielle wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Question for those of you who PVP in no-CP/BGs (I’m a console pleb, no PTS): what’s looking better at the moment? Stam necro or mag necro?

I made a thread with some of my observations on Magicka Necromancer in Battlegrounds - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/469164/necromancer-mechanics-in-battlegrounds

As of right this minute, Stamina Necromancers are vastly superior to their Magicka brethren in an offensive PvP role. The Blastbones issue(s) mentioned in the thread I started should be less of a problem, since you'll generally be casting from melee range anyway, and you get the rest of the Stamina toolkit to go along with it. Realistically, Magicka Necromancers have 2 worthwhile damaging abilities right now - Blastbones and the Ricochet Skull spammable...both of which are also available to Stamina. But Stamina also gets 2 proc'd bleeds, Rending Slashes, Carve (a Stam Sorc I know from live hit me in a PTS-BG for ~4.3k up front damage, while my physical resists were in the mid-20k range, plus it has a bleed DOT, obviously), and actual executes (I've had the "new" Spin-to-Win hit for > 6k in BGs, just in a bit smaller radius). Oh and their Blastbones morph has a Major Defile attached to it.

Weps wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Question for those of you who PVP in no-CP/BGs (I’m a console pleb, no PTS): what’s looking better at the moment? Stam necro or mag necro?

The main issues of the class is that they both have range abilities hitting like a truck.
They both rely a lot on the whole corpse mechanics and tbh a good necro that knows how to play with it can be ridicolously difficult to kill and they both have access to amazing tool for sustain.
A bad necro will be *** in both spec in No-CP, will probably be like the pet sorcs heavy attacking behind the Zoo wall right now. With the difference that they will simply kamikaze AoE bomb you the whole match.

I'm console plebe too, just buy the game and you can get PTS and see everything you want.

The corpse mechanic isn't working very well at all right now, as I laid out in the other thread (and has been mentioned by others as well), and what "amazing tool for sustain" are you referring to? The only ability that restores Magicka costs more than you'll get back over its duration, and you won't even get that full resource return if you don't spend the entire 12 seconds within range of the corpse. The self-cleanse that restores resources will cost you health, and is going to be totally unusable in cases where you're taking heavy heat and not getting outside heals.

Also, the only Necromancer "pet" that's targetable is the Blastbones. While that can be an issue (I've targeted my Blastbones at other people's newly spawning in Blastbones on accident, lots of times), it's not on the same level as a Pet Sorc. Especially since targeting the Blastbones with roots/CC can actually make a big difference, whereas it doesn't against a Pet Sorc. And if you shut down a Magicka Necromancer's Blastbones...you shut down his entire offense.

Thanks for the feedback. I have to say, a ranged stamnecro defiler seems like it might be fun...

You could get both Major and Minor Defile that way, each one attached to very hard hitting abilities (yay balance). But as I said in the other thread, Blastbones' pathfinding/speed is an issue right now; if that doesn't get corrected, using it from range will oftentimes be pretty unreliable, especially in games against decent opponents that are paying attention.

exeeter702

Vexarius wrote: »

saganblackblade wrote: »

After toying with the stam necro i like the feel for the most part. I like the positional play, i like the feel, i like the look and animations. My one makor complaint about the feel is that the scythe doesnt seem to be a must for anyone’s end game pve kit. Would have liked to see it be an option for spammable or at least something worth having in rotation.

I agree about the scythe. I would like it to have more use as a spammable, currently it’s too weak compared to my flame skull. It makes me think of a melee version of swallow soul.

it was never intended to be a spammable dps ability. For its budget, its damage is lower as its a utility skill for tank sustain and to debuff players.

As i said countless times to those that complained that the sycthe would be OP in pvp, you are giving up damage to negate healing on targets for the same GCD. Giving the skill comparable damage to standard spammables would make it grossly OP in pvp, and taking away the heal absorb just makes it uninteresting.

Vance.Frost

So just to let you know i haven't played the pts but watched youtube videos. I do wish that the skeleton mage/archer model was attached to your race. I think it wouldn't be to big when bone collosus does something similar.

jwellsub17_ESO2

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Do the Necromancer’s visuals and themes feel unique compared to other classes?
[*] Do the Necromancer’s abilities and playstyle feel unique compared to other classes?
[*] Does the Necromancer feel faithful to established lore and themes in The Elder Scrolls?

I think so. I really like their look and feel. I also like the different types of Necromancy that they cover.

[*] Did you receive a bounty for using “Criminal Act” Necromancer abilities in towns? If so, what are your thoughts on the experience?
[*] Were you aware certain Necromancer abilities were considered “Criminal Acts” prior to using these abilities in towns?

Yes, I was aware of it as it appears clearly on the skill description, but I specifically chose to use a couple of the skills near a guard. I should point out that I was a bit worried about using my class skills during an early battle, in Rimmen, on when you are near Abnur and Kamira...

[*] Do you plan on playing a Necromancer as your new “main” character when Update 22 goes live?

Yes, I have a concept character that I want to try.

[*] Do you have any other general feedback?

I think there needs to be a bit of synergy, between Vampire and Necromancer, added. Yes, I understand there are few other cross class / skill line synergies, but given the lore as it relates to Vampires being undead who suck life energy and Necromancers who use life energy to create undead. Having said that, I am unsure what said synergy should be, but I do feel that there should be something.

On an unrelated note, I think Kamira's "secret" should not be outed until after Uraxia is dealt with

Tessitura

highkingnm wrote: »

Now with a few days hands on I want to add more details thoughts.

Stammancer is, in my opinion, in a really good place. The DPS I pull is similar to my stamden and rotations are not simple, requiring tethers to sustain, meaning that bodies NEED to be about. This is a good limitation on the raw power of the class and means that it will be weaker at some content and stronger at others. Have a feeling it’ll be BiS for vMA and for those melee slots in trash-heavier trials. For more stack and burn fights it’ll be subpar. I like that, gives it a role. Sustain relies on good uptime for stam morph of restoring tether meaning there is a healthy DPS vs sustain trade off.

Magmancer is probably a bit too powerful. I am not great as a DPS (my best parse on live with mostly ideal purple gear/gold weapons is 40k on petsorc and 37k on stamden) and was able to hit 43k self-buffed on 3mil and 6mil with a pretty poor rotation. 62k on the new trial dummy (my petsorc with all gold gear hit 59k with near flawless rotation). I can only imagine the numbers people with cleaner rotations are doing on the thing. Guildmate was pulling about 90k on PTS (take it with a grain of salt maybe, but they got it down very fast). The sustain is amazing, perhaps too much so. I never went below 60% Magicka on my Breton Magmancer with no heavy attacks in rotation and trash pots. I think a nerf to base sustain but a mag restore morph to restoring tether could balance it out. This would be a lot like stam in requiring tether be kept up, meaning that’s one less corpse for boneyard or siphon to use. At present you need three corpses to get the maximum DPS from stam but two for mag. This means I have to keep killing my skeletal archer (losing a second or so of DPS and having to take a break in DPS to cast tether or boneyard) whereas I can keep mage up and just use the bone bomber thing (can’t recall the name) to create a corpse per rotation, meaning I only lack siphon for a second or two each rotation and get 100% boneyard with corpse bonus uptime. Ironically, this need not to create three corpses across each rotation, instead only needing 2, means sustain is EVEN better, as I have one less ability to cast. Having to create a third corpse by killing mage could tune the DPS enough to make Magmancer strong but balanced, but this requires a sustain nerf (if you listen to me I know I will regret this).

Necro healer. I had a lot of fun with this, did nFV with a DPS and had no problem. Life amid Death (or whatever it is called) is a viable alternative to healing springs when there is trash around. DPS output is slightly lower than Templar, but mostly because of lack of shards. Biggest problem is that they are situational. In fights with very little trash they will be fairly poor healers, but in large trash fights (first pack HRC, post-portal in CR) they will be very effective. Not sure whether I want more consistency, feels like it is in a fairly good place at the moment but might be worth raising the floor, perhaps making heals slightly stronger without corpses but trading off by curtailing the heals from corpse consumption (Life Amid Death goes from a fairly weak HoT to clear best in the game simply by having a corpse there. If it went from average to equal best in the game that might be better).

Overall I think the highs are highs and the lows are low. Corpses are the vital mechanic and I love that, but at the moment Magmancer doesn’t need it to the extent I feel would make it balanced. Heals is good, but not sure if I will make one on live yet. The DPS are both definitely in line.

Will roll a tank in the next few days and feed back after a few runs.

Disagree on your assessment of magnecro being the one thats too strong, I was pulling high number on stam, with a dot, bow/dw build plus stam has the huge edge in pvp, I think stam needs more tweaking then mag does. I didn't really struggle at all with keeping tether up, never seemed to effect my stam dps.

vesselwiththepestle

In general I find Stam Necro to complicated. There are too many dependencies. You have the Venom Skull Proc (every third cast stronger). You have the Blast Bones, which want to be recast pretty often - they are not as strong as the DOTs, but stronger as your spammable. And then there is Siphon, which needs to be cast after it ran out, but needs a corpse to do so, which would be provided by Blast Bones and Skeleton Archer. Stamblade has the reputation of being difficult, I think Stam Necro is way over the top compared to Stamblade. Doing such a dynamic rotation in a boss fight will be hard with addons, I offer my condolences to console players who will have to time all those skills in the right manner with the base game buff timer. I guess Stam Necro will be great for top players exactly because it's complicated and has all those options and I imagine most of them will run Srendar addon to optimize their rotation.

Currently I am sitting at 51k DPS self-buffed no cheese with my Orc 2H Battle Axe Stam Necro. I am using Cleave instead of Venom Skull and obviously I am not using using Berserking Warrior, but Deadly Strike. (For comparison, on live my best no cheese parses are 45k on Stam DK, my main, and 47k on Stamblade, with barely practice, self-buffed 6M obviously).

So all things considered I like that ZOS managed to bring back 2H, who would have thought it just needed a class so strong it doesn't matter which weapon you use.

BluntLightsaber

Tessitura wrote: »

highkingnm wrote: »

...Magmancer is probably a bit too powerful. I am not great as a DPS (my best parse on live with mostly ideal purple gear/gold weapons is 40k on petsorc and 37k on stamden) and was able to hit 43k self-buffed on 3mil and 6mil with a pretty poor rotation. 62k on the new trial dummy (my petsorc with all gold gear hit 59k with near flawless rotation). I can only imagine the numbers people with cleaner rotations are doing on the thing. Guildmate was pulling about 90k on PTS (take it with a grain of salt maybe, but they got it down very fast). The sustain is amazing, perhaps too much so. I never went below 60% Magicka on my Breton Magmancer with no heavy attacks in rotation and trash pots...

Disagree on your assessment of magnecro being the one thats too strong, I was pulling high number on stam, with a dot, bow/dw build plus stam has the huge edge in pvp, I think stam needs more tweaking then mag does. I didn't really struggle at all with keeping tether up, never seemed to effect my stam dps.

Agree on the disagree, please don't use the new trial dummy as a baseline... it's bugged to stack engulfing flames each time it's killed, so if you're hitting it with a flame damage skill (Stalking Blastbones) that's bugged to crit 100% of the time (Stalking Blastbones) and you've killed the thing a few times, of course the numbers are going to start getting silly!

I'm really really enjoying the Magcro, I've posted it earlier in the thread, but the only fundamental change (as opposed to tuning tweaks) I'd personally prefer is being able to cast Stalking Blastbones every 3rd GCD regardless of range from the target (this is purely from a PvE perspective and clashes with 50% damage ramp up on travel time for PvP a bit). It's just to make the rotation the same at all ranges from the target, because I'd rather not have my optimal rotation be in a melee spot.

I've seen a lot of people complain about the pathing of the ability in PvP, and a potential solution in my mind is to change the pathing of the magicka morph to have the skeleton spawn closer to the target and jump at them so that it's always done in time for the next cast after 3 GCDs. Obviously the damage with travel time would have to be changed, it could possibly do x% (20%?) more damage based on increased distance from the target, obviously when tweaking the numbers it shouldn't be too strong in PvE, my only concern with it would then be for zerg surfing in Cyro.

The pathing of Blighted Blastbones could remain the same as it is currently, and maybe change the Major Defile so that it is only applied if the Blastbones has been chasing for more than x seconds (3.5/4)?