The problem with faction lock for the veteran PvP players

Glory · April 2019

NirnStorm wrote: »

Ahtu wrote: »

I don't know what game you were playing but when you flagged Farra with that group of yours we only had three keeps left on the map. About five minutes later IA proceeded to flag both Arrius and Kings while we were fighting your group. As a result, those keeps were pvdoored and we were gated.

Nope. We flagged the keep, and as soon as your group showed up we went back to the resource and broken imperial tower and fought you there for over 30 minutes. DC were sieging Glade when we started.
What you are referring to is the 2nd time the keep flagged, after we wiped your group, which other DCs flagged, and we just hung around on the walls killing the AD raid that ran inside trying to backcap it.

Ahtu wrote: »

I will never understand your motivations as small-scale and faction hopping is not fun to me.

It's simple. I don't care who wins. I play the game to have fun, not to serve a NPC king.
Fun for me means outnumbered challenging battles in which I can't tell for sure I will win until the moment I do. AKA not 50v1ing.

We also noticed that DC was starting to change the map, and agreed to switch back over to EP. I believe the only reason we didn't was because group ended at 3PM which is when the map was really starting to change.

CatchMeTrolling · April 2019

visionality wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

It's a midday weekend, Vivec is 3-Lock-3 on PC NA, every other campaign is 0 across the board.

EP has the majority of the map. I have been playing on EP with a group of friends, and because the factions are so unbalanced currently we are moving to fight on DC.

With faction locks, we'd be forced to
Help push other factions to the gates, eliminating all PvP without much challenge.

Play on a dead campaign.

Log off or do something else.

How does this align with people's claims of spreading factions, etc.?

The truth is the people who want faction locks are all faction loyal and like the idea of pushing the other alliances to the gates for tOtAl PoWeR; they don't care about anything more than that.

A gated campaign for the majority of the day is exactly what’s going to happen. EU players will probably have a different experience though.

EU players have gated gampaigns for the majority of the day due to faction hopping. Ppl swap to the time-scheduled PVDoor alliance to farm AP on one character, then reswap with whole guilds to the other alliance for the next PVDoor ap farming session. And we are not talking about 3 or 4 ppl here but of 40+. Its utterly disgusting and a disgrace for the game.

Why do people swap to the winning faction to “farm” ap I never heard of that unless it was for people who just get EASY ap by taking empty keeps. Other than that in my experience people switch to the losing side to farm ap because of the ap buff and more enemies.

Elong · April 2019

Ahtu wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Ahtu wrote: »

We were not gating them and instead holding what we had. What your describing has no basis in fact, and all you did was kick us when we were down. To me, it's cowardly of you to change sides to help them hammer us, but if that's your MO then I guess I will see you on the field.

Aren't you the AD that faction swapped to EP?

I've played all three alliances and settled on EP because our players actually listen.

Oh lordy! The sweet sweet irony! Ahtu is a filthy faction hopper!

Ahtu · April 2019

I think I played AD for about two hours before giving up. DC was fun [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Glory · April 2019

Easy solution posted again: allow people to go factionless in Cyrodiil. Include features:

Factionless cannot claim keeps, only outposts and resources.
Factionless are only allied with those in their group, with a smaller group cap (8? 12? 16?)
Factionless forfeit end of campaign rewards? Perhaps devise a new system with lesser benefits?

This shakes things up, allows people who want to "hop" to play with their friends able to do so, and limits their impact on influencing the campaign.

ks888 · April 2019

@Ahtu I know this gonna come as a real shocker, but there are people who could not care less about the map. There is more than one way to play in Cyrodiil. All we ask for is a way that gives us a way to preserve OUR way, you will still have yours, but faction locks automatically forces groups like ours to a dead server or the option of twiddling our thumbs on EP while the map gets mowed down, neither of which are very fun.

ks888 · April 2019

^ excuse above rambly sentences I am dealing with lack of sleep, but toughing it out for my D&D game tonight

ks888 · April 2019

@Glory see this is a nice compromise -

I would also throw in even "factionless can't be emperor on a locked campaign".

That covers most of the objections that led to the faction lock.

ks888 · April 2019

*that - your suggestion + mine covers the objections

dag nabbit I am so tired

ks888 · April 2019

@Ahtu on a further note - no one FORCED EP to come fights us at the broken tower behind the Farra LM. YOU CHOSE to fight us there while other DC groups were busy elsewhere. This was a poor decision on the players part who were fighting us while other keeps were attacked. We have no control over this, just like we have no control over it when keeps don't get defended while we're on our EP toons. We're all responsible for our own choices and the consequences of said choices. My avatar may be a goat, but it's not a scapegoat. My goat's name is Sindab tyvm.

Ahtu · April 2019

Yes and I might have made a mistake fighting you I realize that yes. I'm not mad about the scroll I'm mad that people have the ability to appear at our gates with no warning, at random, at any given moment just by reading the map. It's not right and should be removed completely for Vivec as it makes situational awareness impossible.

ks888 · April 2019

@Ahtu so I'm not allowed to ride my horse in cyrodiil from one side of the map to the other?

NBrookus · April 2019

So when I started ESO I made multiple faction toons to experience different faction stories and races. Personally I went from "hell no I'll never PVP" to trying it out for the skills and passives and discovering I liked it to the point of avoiding PvP. Since then we had One Tamriel (an awesome change) but unfortunately the pvp audience has steadily dwindled. Over the years I have met players of all alliances I like, respect, and enjoy playing with... and some I enjoy playing against... and some I loved fighting against that it turns out I really liked fighting with.

I've watched the less populated campaigns I loved degenerate into wastelands where a "zerg" of 12 can cap the map to sell that emperor achievement for 3 million gold. A campaign where any strong group (via size of ability) can dominate to the map to the exclusion of any real competition before they get bored and log off.

If you wanted competition, you usually had to play one faction in the day and another in prime time.

Performance issues finally made me leave ESO PvP and eventually ESO altogether, but I'd be back in a heartbeat if that got fixed. So I watch the patch notes, I still watch the videos, I talk to ESO friends... I'd love to rekindle an old flame. I'd love to buy Eleswyr and renew my subscription. TAKE MY MONEY.

But this patch I'm told I'd have to pick which set of friends to play with, assuming those friends all make the same choice. So much for One Tamriel. I have to make a choice based on one time zone, so if I play at different hours on different days, I am left out. Or we can go to a 7 day camp which in all likelihood will have a brief renaissance before descending into what it was.

It's not a welcome mat.

And I guarantee the people bleating about SPAIS will just switch to whining that people are using alt accounts to flip factions.

Ixtyr · April 2019

Ahtu wrote: »

Yes and I might have made a mistake fighting you I realize that yes. I'm not mad about the scroll I'm mad that people have the ability to appear at our gates with no warning, at random, at any given moment just by reading the map. It's not right and should be removed completely for Vivec as it makes situational awareness impossible.

What?

RedGirl41 · April 2019

Locking alliances is the biggest mistake they can do. even if "spies" were a thing in a 5 year old game, alliance locking wouldn't prevent it. WE HAVE TEXT CHAT, GUILD CHATS, PARTY CHATS?!?!?!

The alliance lock should be In the smaller 7 day campaigns so people who care about that can do play there.

most of the time I play dc with my small guild but when im alone I play my mag dk on AD because I made her years ago with other friends.

simple solution: makes smaller 7 day campaigns be alliance locked.

Marcus684 · April 2019

ks888 wrote: »

@frozywozy not everyone plays NA primetime though - that's a huge chunk of people being relegated to dead servers.

If a “huge chuck of people” are relegated to “dead” servers, I guess they’ll no longer be dead, eh?

Enkil · April 2019

I think a 7-day should have been locked and offered as a new option. Then if it’s lopsided, people can play diff factions after 7 days—very reasonable. I’ve been lobbying for faction lock since returning to game last April, but really I was hoping for maybe one (or 1 Cp, 1 no-CP) new 7-day campaign(s).

Perhaps the devs have some long-term vision about potential benefits of locking the 30-days but they have not shared it. It may backfire, and I hope they are prepared to adjust accordingly and change things if they are inundated with feedback once this goes live.

Faction lock is a big new change. It probably should have been offered as an option on a short duration campaign... not forced upon the masses. If the locked 7-day campaign proves popular, it could then be rolled out to other campaigns if there is additional demand.

josh.lackey_ESO · April 2019

Kaiz wrote: »

@Glory

DAD! Billy won't play on my team every time! Make him pick my side!

josh.lackey_ESO · April 2019

Ahtu wrote: »

Yesterday six well-known, elite, faction swapping veteran players IN THIS THREAD switched to DC to serve as a distraction and help DC get their scroll back at Farragut. This is why we need faction locks. Players shouldn't be able to decide which faction they want to play on at any given moment given the situation as it gives a huge disadvantage to faction-loyal players.

I was enjoying fighting the DC zerg until they interfered and allowed DC to recapture their scroll.

PROOF right here from one of the biggest faction loyalists in the game that fAcTiOn hOpPeRs actually do what we have said: switch to help the underdog team, not go to the winning side.

josh.lackey_ESO · April 2019

visionality wrote: »

EU players have gated gampaigns for the majority of the day due to faction hopping. Ppl swap to the time-scheduled PVDoor alliance to farm AP on one character, then reswap with whole guilds to the other alliance for the next PVDoor ap farming session. And we are not talking about 3 or 4 ppl here but of 40+. Its utterly disgusting and a disgrace for the game.

Uhhh if they just wanted to PvDoor a map wouldn't it make more sense to do it on a dead 7-day campaign (which will remain unlocked) rather than doing it on the flagship 30-day CP campaign?

Or are they actually doing this on the dead campaign and you are conflating it with the 30-day CP? I really don't know what they do on EU servers.

Ahtu · April 2019

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Ahtu wrote: »

Yesterday six well-known, elite, faction swapping veteran players IN THIS THREAD switched to DC to serve as a distraction and help DC get their scroll back at Farragut. This is why we need faction locks. Players shouldn't be able to decide which faction they want to play on at any given moment given the situation as it gives a huge disadvantage to faction-loyal players.

I was enjoying fighting the DC zerg until they interfered and allowed DC to recapture their scroll.

PROOF right here from one of the biggest faction loyalists in the game that fAcTiOn hOpPeRs actually do what we have said: switch to help the underdog team, not go to the winning side.

On the flip side, AD had a horde last night which stole our scroll with DC's help. Where was our relief? Nobody came to help us and we were out there on our own because everyone was on AD.

Switching to the winning team is much more common among the playerbase than switching to the losing side.

Elong · April 2019

Ahtu wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Ahtu wrote: »

Yesterday six well-known, elite, faction swapping veteran players IN THIS THREAD switched to DC to serve as a distraction and help DC get their scroll back at Farragut. This is why we need faction locks. Players shouldn't be able to decide which faction they want to play on at any given moment given the situation as it gives a huge disadvantage to faction-loyal players.

I was enjoying fighting the DC zerg until they interfered and allowed DC to recapture their scroll.

PROOF right here from one of the biggest faction loyalists in the game that fAcTiOn hOpPeRs actually do what we have said: switch to help the underdog team, not go to the winning side.

On the flip side, AD had a horde last night which stole our scroll with DC's help. Where was our relief? Nobody came to help us and we were out there on our own because everyone was on AD.

Switching to the winning team is much more common among the playerbase than switching to the losing side.

EP used to be the winning team until AOTP formed : )

Ahtu · April 2019

Elong wrote: »

Ahtu wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Ahtu wrote: »

Yesterday six well-known, elite, faction swapping veteran players IN THIS THREAD switched to DC to serve as a distraction and help DC get their scroll back at Farragut. This is why we need faction locks. Players shouldn't be able to decide which faction they want to play on at any given moment given the situation as it gives a huge disadvantage to faction-loyal players.

I was enjoying fighting the DC zerg until they interfered and allowed DC to recapture their scroll.

PROOF right here from one of the biggest faction loyalists in the game that fAcTiOn hOpPeRs actually do what we have said: switch to help the underdog team, not go to the winning side.

On the flip side, AD had a horde last night which stole our scroll with DC's help. Where was our relief? Nobody came to help us and we were out there on our own because everyone was on AD.

Switching to the winning team is much more common among the playerbase than switching to the losing side.

EP used to be the winning team until AOTP formed : )

I'm grateful AP decided to help on Tuesday nights because it was needed.

ks888 · April 2019

@Ahtu what we experienced last night was 2 faction stacks - it had nothing to do with faction hopping. EP was fighting multiple coordinated guilds. Prior to AP's arrival, EP did the exact same things. Multiple guilds, rather than one guild running a raid of 30-70 players worked together and EP dominated. Each group played to their strengths and ish got done, EP did great.

As someone who played AD and DC prior to coming over to EP roughly 2 years ago, I admired how well EP worked together. Then this mentality of "don't listen to the elitists" came along, all the pugs who needed some direction ended up listening to leaders that weren't making the best choices and people got downright toxic instead of taking constructive criticism. EP's downfall has never had anything to do with faction hoppers like myself and my friends. It has everything to do with being comprised now of people who simply don't want to take good advice and don't want to work together outside of their guild groups.

Once again, that ain't no scapegoat to the left of this message.

ks888 · April 2019

@ZOS_GinaBruno because I'm not sure I tagged her yet

Sandman929 · April 2019

Marcus684 wrote: »

ks888 wrote: »

@frozywozy not everyone plays NA primetime though - that's a huge chunk of people being relegated to dead servers.

If a “huge chuck of people” are relegated to “dead” servers, I guess they’ll no longer be dead, eh?

I keep having this same thought as well. Not to say I absolutely agree with how this lock is being implemented, but it's a strange argument that's being made.
To hear them tell it though, they're huge in numbers but will all be on at different times and always miss each other, so individually the map will remain dead.
They also don't care about the rewards, but they want the 30 day rewards.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · April 2019

Ahtu wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Ahtu wrote: »

Yesterday six well-known, elite, faction swapping veteran players IN THIS THREAD switched to DC to serve as a distraction and help DC get their scroll back at Farragut. This is why we need faction locks. Players shouldn't be able to decide which faction they want to play on at any given moment given the situation as it gives a huge disadvantage to faction-loyal players.

I was enjoying fighting the DC zerg until they interfered and allowed DC to recapture their scroll.

PROOF right here from one of the biggest faction loyalists in the game that fAcTiOn hOpPeRs actually do what we have said: switch to help the underdog team, not go to the winning side.

On the flip side, AD had a horde last night which stole our scroll with DC's help. Where was our relief? Nobody came to help us and we were out there on our own because everyone was on AD.

Switching to the winning team is much more common among the playerbase than switching to the losing side.

Perhaps pvpers are not inclined to assist those who have said they want to kill off pvp

ks888 · April 2019

@Marcus684 actually, it will likely be just as it was in the past - that huge chunk will comprise 1-2 factions rather than all 3, thus the exact same stuff will happen all over again. This means one faction dominating the map and everyone else struggling to find a balanced fight. Again, been there, done that, it didn't work last time.

Ahtu · April 2019

I'm glad nobody helped because we didn't need it and got the scroll back immediately. I'm illustrating a point that people jump ship to the winning faction any given night based on the circumstance. Faction locks will prevent this from happening as people will be locked in for the entire campaign cycle.

ks888 · April 2019

@Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO We had a scenario several years ago on Haderus with a particular guild lead who said he wanted to kill the server. At the time, my guild was playing DC and this leader was also on DC. Faction hopping actually saved the server, because our guild was able to swap to our AD and EP toons to pound that group. It was nice having the option to essentially play police when someone was doing something that would have ruined PvP for everyone.