Should Auction House be Public or Guild only?

Jadeviper1974 · April 2014

Public AH means broken economy controlled by botters and spammers, just like it has been in every other game with a public AH.

Mortelus · April 2014

I voted public - server wide, but really you should add faction wide, and also the option to have housing with your own store there linked to a faction wide AH. Player need to visit you home to make the purchase, the AH is more of a listing page of who is selling what.

Or introduce market areas where you rent/buy a stall and you can set up shop.

Both scenarios players have to be at their shop to be able to sell items. maybe you could also hire an assistant to help with this so you can continue your adventures.

I would much rather see individual stores either in housing or as a market district for players. AH can cause issues with gold farmers and the like. And living in China I wouldn't want to see a repeat of SWTOR's solution to gold farmers, which was to ban Chinese IP addresses. That is a silly solution as you can still get on with a VPN then turn it off and keep playing, I am sure the gold farmers could work this out too.

A store should be set up at level 10 and then you can sell things. before that no selling. This would off put gold farmers, and the fact you need to remain at the store to sell things would also put them off.

Seneschel · April 2014

So people think having every single player on either megasever using the same auction house is a good idea? Right. Cause that won't destroy any hopes of an in game economy. With so many players every item will become worth nothing.
Auction houses work on games like WoW where the population is limited to several thousands players. ESO has the potential to have MILLIONS of players on a single server.

wrlifeboil · April 2014

Seneschel wrote: »

So people think having every single player on either megasever using the same auction house is a good idea? Right. Cause that won't destroy any hopes of an in game economy. With so many players every item will become worth nothing.
Auction houses work on games like WoW where the population is limited to several thousands players. ESO has the potential to have MILLIONS of players on a single server.

You're exaggerating because you bought into the marketing aspect of the megaserver. We don't play with millions of people at the same time. The megaserver slices up the player population into small groups and places us into virtual realms where there are only a few thousand players at most. The only thing "mega" in megaserver is the mega flexibility of creating virtual realms and not that you are playing in one realm with millions of other players.

The problem in a public AH would be in limiting the selection of items in the AH in that virtual realm to the players currently within that realm. Sellers could potentially be moved into different virtual realms even in the course of a hour. It would probably mean there wouldn't be any form of outstanding bids allowed. A buyer would either have to purchase the item listed in the auction house or they would run the risk of being placed in a different virtual realm the next time they zoned or logged. Then there would be problems if the seller of the item was moved to a different virtual realm when he zoned or logged. I'm sure the devs have gone through this before and it probably influenced the development of what we have in guild stores. So I don't expect any kind of global AH any time soon.

Edit: spelling

Thesiren · April 2014

Oh please put in some sort of auction house, even if it has to be faction based!

DanteYoda · April 2014

k9mouse wrote: »

We didn't need an AH. Where is the option in the poll that for those of us do not want an AH?

Totally agree, very bias poll..

Vikova · April 2014

The reasoning for my opinion is rather simple: I want gold to stay almost irrelevant. An auction house would change that.

Tarelyn · April 2014

DanteYoda wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

We didn't need an AH. Where is the option in the poll that for those of us do not want an AH?

Totally agree, very bias poll..

hehe
rlly?
well... u r allowed to post otherwise, as the two/three of you have.
opinion noted. will try to remember, if ever a next time, to include the extremely minor options to a larger debate.

mind... u already have THAT option anyway.
dont like AH?
dont USE it.
pretty simple, hmm?

Tandor · April 2014

Public. It's quite absurd to impose a requirement for guild membership on anyone wanting to use what in any MMO is a basic core feature.

Kyosji · April 2014

Throwing out ideas, cause I could care less either way.

Have a player store set up where you can park yourself in an area with a message above your head saying your selling stuff. I think FFXI had this system, can't remember exactly. So instead of seeing a chat filled with "WTS", you can have your character go AFK in a town with a mini store on them.

Tarelyn · April 2014

Kyosji wrote: »

Throwing out ideas, cause I could care less either way.

Have a player store set up where you can park yourself in an area with a message above your head saying your selling stuff. I think FFXI had this system, can't remember exactly. So instead of seeing a chat filled with "WTS", you can have your character go AFK in a town with a mini store on them.

luv it
any option is a GOOD option.
ty

icengr_ESO · April 2014

Zilas wrote: »

Oh and, I was thinking that eventually someone would make an online auction house if the developers do not think about something else soon.

there is an online auction, esoah.com

Vikova · April 2014

icengr_ESO wrote: »

there is an online auction, esoah.com

Does it get reasonable traffic? I just can't imagine people would go through the extra work of going to a website.

Gedalya · April 2014

I believe that rice is an abused ingredient in fast-food Tex Mex restaurants often used as a filler; I mean who really wants rice in their Burrito? When I go to Chipotle or Moes I never have them put it in my food; further I suspect most people have it on their food well before they have the right mind to say, "No, I'll get rice when I order Sushi".

tallenn · April 2014

unknowngamer wrote: »

Absolutely yes.

Honestly I cannot believe this is even being debated against in this day and age. Its seems as if all the naysayers are liberal hipsters who took a couple courses in economics, graduated with rose-coloured glasses and want to take a grassroots approach to markets returning us to the stone age in terms of trading and wealth acquisition. Here are a couple rebuttals to common global AH worries:

1) Global AH destroys communities by negating face to face trading
Couple issues here. First off, this isn't the olden-days of 1999 EQ and UO where you spammed EC tunnels and posted wares on trading sites because that was your only option to trade in an efficient manner. AH's main purposes are to sell your goods quick and easy so you can get back to actually playing the game. For every guy /saying in EC chatting it up with others there were another 10 alt-tabbing to pass boredom. No community there.
Secondly, AH is the least of things to worry about with the megaserver phasing concept. Sure if you find friends you like you can add them and switch instances but as far as dynamic communities of good people its impossible. The game chooses which community we default to every time we log in. When 2/3 of zone chat is tradespam and you come across guilds named named Christpunchers and guys named Anahlphist (I'm not making this up) global AH is not what worries me in a community sense.

2) Global AH opens up possibilities for mass market manipulation and price gouging

As if Wall Street doesn't do this on a daily basis. You can't stop people from buying low and selling high its the foundation of trade and is what separates the wealthy from those that stay wealthy. Actually, price gouging will be more likely to happen in a closed market than an open one. Hell, its what us smiths in UO at the Britain forge did every day. We knew damn well that a full suit of plate wasn't worth 7.5-10k and so did the buyers - but it was either us or vendor trash so you paid what we told you. By not allowing a broad market to examine current lows and highs of pricing items your more likely to get screwed than not. Already rarer items are quoted by players as "make an offer". In trade, saying that is the same thing as saying "I have no clue about the value of goods I possess so you tell me what they are worth so I don't look like an idiot". This isn't poker where checking has a bluff-based tactile benefit. If the offer was not what you wanted your going to counter-offer the price you had in mind anyway so just say it up front and don't waste other people's time. In the end, you're more likely to feel pressured to undersell to unload quicker because god knows when you'll receive another offer due to the difficulty receiving recognition in chatspam. AH's at the very least allow you to ballpark the value of your goods.

3) The main concern is controlling the spread of epic/rare items
If ZOS biggest worry is to control the trade-based acquisition of end-game epic gear fine - make them BOP like the good old days and you remove this fear entirely. If people want the best then they have to earn it by doing. Sounds fair to me.

In closing, its quite clear most people want an auction house. Already most people have 4/5 of their guilds as trading guilds making their trading market already the size of a non-wow MMO server. And to be quite honest most people only fully commit to 1 guild, they tend to be an all-in affair and rightfully so. Nobody wants a part-time guild member with relaxed guild loyalty. Doesn't make for the best bedfellow.

Stop believing the free market is an omnipotent evil entity corrupting the world because it simply isn't. There are far more ravenous socio-economic systems and policies that damage the distribution of wealth. For all you Uni kiddies out there take what you need from your courses in Economics but don't turn into a social democrat calling for more market intervention - it will sort itself out. If your prof was really so smart he or she would be out there making a fortune as opposed to 50K a year with nothing to show for it but a set of Birkenstock sandals putting in time for their pension.

So very well said, sir. It does my heart good to see free market principles spoken of with reverence and respect, and with such wonderfully eloquent speech. Hayek himself could hardly have said it better.

Chili · April 2014

I voted guild only because it builds a community within each guild, something that is sorely lacking in most (if not all) MMOs.

It also allows players to look over one guild's listing and snag something for cheap and resell on another guild's auction for potential profit. mmmm capitalism.

Or even find something someone else is searching for but cannot find it on any of the guild markets they are a member of, thus resulting in helping guild members out thus making friends. Being social. Building a community.

I like the current system, I just wish they would add some functionality to the current UI for guild markets.

Tarelyn · April 2014

Gedalya wrote: »

I believe that rice is an abused ingredient in fast-food Tex Mex restaurants often used as a filler; I mean who really wants rice in their Burrito? When I go to Chipotle or Moes I never have them put it in my food; further I suspect most people have it on their food well before they have the right mind to say, "No, I'll get rice when I order Sushi".

...

and this has to do with an AH because... ?

hmmmm... is someone listing Rice on their guild?
if so, pls put a STOP to this at once!
-Gedalya does not approve!

Thank you, have a rice day.

Orizuru · April 2014

Tarelyn wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

I voted guild only mostly because I feel that server wide auction houses just lead to market manipulation and price gouging. People just sit there all day buying up the cheap stuff and listing it for way more than its worth artificially inflating the value of items.

i understand what you mean. but dont u think they will still do that in Guild anyway?
i mean, in theory, no... but people r people anyway. and greed is still greed.
i just dont get it.

The guild approach allows the guild to respond to this type of behavior however they see fit.

In a public AH there is no way to enforce undercutting or resellers. The buyers just have to suck it up and deal with it. In a guild store though, the guild leaders can monitor the behavior of the guild members and enforce their own rules about how to deal with people who try to manipulate the economy in ways that may be unfair.

Basically, guild stores create smaller pocket economies where the members can choose to participate if the rules are in line with their ideals, whereas a global AH forces all players into a single economy where there are little to no rules, no enforcement of any rules beyond what the game servers provide, and where the richest players are the only ones who stand a chance of participating in a real economy.

Guild stores are a superior system for players in my opinion.

Tarelyn · April 2014

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

Tarelyn wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

I voted guild only mostly because I feel that server wide auction houses just lead to market manipulation and price gouging. People just sit there all day buying up the cheap stuff and listing it for way more than its worth artificially inflating the value of items.

i understand what you mean. but dont u think they will still do that in Guild anyway?
i mean, in theory, no... but people r people anyway. and greed is still greed.
i just dont get it.

The guild approach allows the guild to respond to this type of behavior however they see fit.

In a public AH there is no way to enforce undercutting or resellers. The buyers just have to suck it up and deal with it. In a guild store though, the guild leaders can monitor the behavior of the guild members and enforce their own rules about how to deal with people who try to manipulate the economy in ways that may be unfair.

Basically, guild stores create smaller pocket economies where the members and choose to participate if the rules are in line with their ideals, whereas a global AH forces all players into a single economy where there are little to no rules, no enforcement of any rules beyond what the game servers provide, and where the richest players are the only ones who stand a chance of participating in a real economy.

Guild stores are a superior system for players in my opinion.

thanks for the insight.
but, for the sake of argument...
what if you could only access Ebay for YOUR town?
might be great if u lived in say... NY, or London...
well, not great, but at least not so much a problem.

Aellikor · April 2014

One thought would be to have "Alliance Guilds". Meaning, 2 or more guilds could join together to have a supermart store. Hmm - or how about a weekend Swap Meet between guilds?

Otherwise no, I don't want a public/global Auction House in ESO. No matter what may be said for convenience, it damages economies that are based on unlimited resources. Certainly not an economist, so this perspective is based only on my MMO experience.

Orizuru · April 2014

Tarelyn wrote: »

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

Tarelyn wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

I voted guild only mostly because I feel that server wide auction houses just lead to market manipulation and price gouging. People just sit there all day buying up the cheap stuff and listing it for way more than its worth artificially inflating the value of items.

i understand what you mean. but dont u think they will still do that in Guild anyway?
i mean, in theory, no... but people r people anyway. and greed is still greed.
i just dont get it.

The guild approach allows the guild to respond to this type of behavior however they see fit.

In a public AH there is no way to enforce undercutting or resellers. The buyers just have to suck it up and deal with it. In a guild store though, the guild leaders can monitor the behavior of the guild members and enforce their own rules about how to deal with people who try to manipulate the economy in ways that may be unfair.

Basically, guild stores create smaller pocket economies where the members and choose to participate if the rules are in line with their ideals, whereas a global AH forces all players into a single economy where there are little to no rules, no enforcement of any rules beyond what the game servers provide, and where the richest players are the only ones who stand a chance of participating in a real economy.

Guild stores are a superior system for players in my opinion.

thanks for the insight.
but, for the sake of argument...
what if you could only access Ebay for YOUR town?
might be great if u lived in say... NY, or London...
well, not great, but at least not so much a problem.

Ebay is able to enforce rules on both the buyers and sellers that a video game does not. It's not a good analogy on any level.

Tarelyn · April 2014

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

Ebay is able to enforce rules on both the buyers and sellers that a video game does not. It's not a good analogy on any level.

thats valid thought, except i play other game where rules r enforced pretty easily.

Aellikor · April 2014

wrlifeboil wrote: »

...

You're exaggerating because you bought into the marketing aspect of the megaserver. We don't play with millions of people at the same time. The megaserver slices up the player population into small groups and places us into virtual realms where there are only a few thousand players at most. The only thing "mega" in megaserver is the mega flexibility of creating virtual realms and not that you are playing in one realm with millions of other players.

The problem in a public AH would be in limiting the selection of items in the AH in that virtual realm to the players currently within that realm. Sellers could potentially be moved into different virtual realms even in the course of a hour. It would probably mean there wouldn't be any form of outstanding bids allowed. A buyer would either have to purchase the item listed in the auction house or they would run the risk of being placed in a different virtual realm the next time they zoned or logged. Then there would be problems if the seller of the item was moved to a different virtual realm when he zoned or logged. I'm sure the devs have gone through this before and it probably influenced the development of what we have in guild stores. So I don't expect any kind of global AH any time soon.

Edit: spelling

I think your observation is a good reason why they went with Guild Stores. Perhaps it was a technical limitation or even a nightmare to figure out stable programming to support the "realm" issue.

Tarelyn · April 2014

Aellikor wrote: »

...I'm sure the devs have gone through this before and it probably influenced the development of what we have in guild stores. So I don't expect any kind of global AH any time soon.

(wrlifeboil) I think your observation is a good reason why they went with Guild Stores. Perhaps it was a technical limitation or even a nightmare to figure out stable programming to support the "realm" issue.

thank you both.
haven't considered that aspect.
would LOV to hear from Devs about the why's/why nots 2b sure.

Jeremy · April 2014

Sojan wrote: »

Only you, can prevent price gouging. And by you, I mean us; public auction houses will only lead to over inflated pricing of items. Whenever I see someone asking an exorbitant amounts of money, I intentionally under bid them; everybody can do the same. Bottom line, we control the economy; if we do not make a stand, then they win.

Not so. You can't control an economy you have no access to begin with. That is exactly the problem with this game's economy. It is fragmented into many different markets people do not have access too.

That leads to less control and more abuse.

The best way to prevent price gouging is to open up the market and allow everyone easy access to it. Reducing its size and access does nothing but make it easier to abuse.

tallenn · April 2014

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

Tarelyn wrote: »

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

Tarelyn wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

I voted guild only mostly because I feel that server wide auction houses just lead to market manipulation and price gouging. People just sit there all day buying up the cheap stuff and listing it for way more than its worth artificially inflating the value of items.

i understand what you mean. but dont u think they will still do that in Guild anyway?
i mean, in theory, no... but people r people anyway. and greed is still greed.
i just dont get it.

The guild approach allows the guild to respond to this type of behavior however they see fit.

In a public AH there is no way to enforce undercutting or resellers. The buyers just have to suck it up and deal with it. In a guild store though, the guild leaders can monitor the behavior of the guild members and enforce their own rules about how to deal with people who try to manipulate the economy in ways that may be unfair.

Basically, guild stores create smaller pocket economies where the members and choose to participate if the rules are in line with their ideals, whereas a global AH forces all players into a single economy where there are little to no rules, no enforcement of any rules beyond what the game servers provide, and where the richest players are the only ones who stand a chance of participating in a real economy.

Guild stores are a superior system for players in my opinion.

thanks for the insight.
but, for the sake of argument...
what if you could only access Ebay for YOUR town?
might be great if u lived in say... NY, or London...
well, not great, but at least not so much a problem.

Ebay is able to enforce rules on both the buyers and sellers that a video game does not. It's not a good analogy on any level.

So, are you saying ebay enforces rules against under-cutting and reselling? So, if someone posts a Game of Thrones season 3 BluRay set for $50, I can't post one for $49? Or, if I buy something on ebay, they won't let me try to resell it on ebay for a higher price?

What were your other complaints again? Does ebay enforce rules prohibiting those practices, as well?

The laws of supply and demand do a fine job of policing these things. If someone is undercutting you, then you are selling for more than the item is worth. This is demonstrably true, because someone is willing sell it for less than what you apparently are. If someone buys something then resells it a higher price, they did so because they did the research to find an item that was listed at a lower price than it was worth, AND the took a risk that the price hadn't in fact dropped (which they do from time to time- prices are generally always in a state of flux in a free market).

Morvoldo · April 2014

Elember wrote: »

sully73 wrote: »

I feel a server wide auction house would destroy the economy in this game. Since there are only 2 severs NA and EU so many people will be posting the same item that it will tank the price. Especially on low level mats when selling to a vendor grants you 400 per stack

I have played another mega server style MMO, Star Trek Online, and it has global AH and the economy works just fine. Now before you start saying STO is not nearly as big as ESO and therefore it can sustain its economy with a global AH go try playing it. They have over 2 million registered accounts this is a KNOWN fact in the industry.

So the argument that ESO's server would not be able to handle the lag of a global AH, well if that is the case then they screwed up developing the netcode part of their server structure.

STO also has the whole bank and AH set up nice considering F2P and does have a big community
ie
1 character = inventory and Bank then 1 bank for Account (sorry going off topic)
but the Exchange (as its called) does run very smooth and is good to sell all items in, and no Hefty fees to post.
also there guilds after work and contribution from players/members do have there own housing (Fleet station).
i do like this idea

Phadin · April 2014

I prefer it without some massive auction house. The small guild stores are fine. For me, it actually gave me a reason to join a guild. I probably wouldn't have otherwise. There are guilds setting themselves up solely for the purpose of trade/selling stuff. And we have the ability to join up to 5 guilds... so you can join a crafting guild if your a crafter, join two trade guilds, and still join an alliance guild or some other guild with your friends.

There is another advantage of the guild stores. They can be self-policed by the guild owners/managers. With a public auction house, the devs would have the responsibility of trying to control bad actors, such as user or users that try to monopolize a resource and sell for far more then it should be sold for. A guild managing a small store can isolate and expel such users from the guild. The guild can also negotiate what prices should be and in some cases advertise their guild as a better option for lower prices.... or specilizing in certain items or materials. I think the guild store option gives a lot more power to the players to determine how they want to run the economy without being impacted by the massive other players present in the game.

InF13RNo · April 2014

Public and add search by name option.

NetViperX · April 2014

Being a person that has to deal with the public for a living I have developed a very sizable dislike for people. I avoid guilds and groups like the plague because of the many annoyances that come from having to deal with people and their BS. So for me a server wide AH would be a blessing.