PLEASE HELP MAGBLADE!

HEBREWHAMMERRR · March 2019

Fiktius wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

I came back to magblade as a shell of what it once was. With no snare removal (give us back old cloak plz!!) and the huge lack of healing it’s been quite a struggle to do well with what used to work for me. I’ve had to adapt a lot and I still tear up BGs but cyrodill is rough. Been mostly running lich + necro + skoria or 1p1p and willpower destro. If I’m going tanky I go with the tried and true riposte + trans + skoria. Haven’t tried many new sets but these are the old school builds that are still working for me. If I was going for a 2H build I’d probably stick with what I was using with shackle + lich + zaan.

Hope this helps but magblade is in about the worst spot it’s ever been. I came back and messaged the best magblade I know for some build updates, his response was simple, “class is trash right now”. feels bad but maybe or time will come again. Did I mention I’d love our cloak purge back?

Sadly buffing cloak has one issue. It also buffs the already strong stamblades. I still think cloak, or at least the invisible morph, should require 5 pieces of light armor.
Or perhaps add a bonus (snare removal) which requires 5 pieces of light armor.

Very interesting idea here! Armor passives off certain abilities is a really intriguing option. I’d like this to gain traction! @Gilliamtherogue @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

that would kill stamblade class identity. being an assassin isn't unique to light armor... The second suggestion where light armor gives snare removal to cloak is okay though!

Not to mention heavy armor NBs! Imho class skills should never have armor weight requirements.
That would narrow down build variety too much. Every Nightblade should be able to use which ever morph they like in their class skills, no matter what kind of armor type they use.

You’re misunderstanding. This would make the cost / reward more intriguing for different armors. Say medium kept cloak crit, mag got snare removal and heavy an armor buff or mitigation, etc.

Fiktius · March 2019

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

I came back to magblade as a shell of what it once was. With no snare removal (give us back old cloak plz!!) and the huge lack of healing it’s been quite a struggle to do well with what used to work for me. I’ve had to adapt a lot and I still tear up BGs but cyrodill is rough. Been mostly running lich + necro + skoria or 1p1p and willpower destro. If I’m going tanky I go with the tried and true riposte + trans + skoria. Haven’t tried many new sets but these are the old school builds that are still working for me. If I was going for a 2H build I’d probably stick with what I was using with shackle + lich + zaan.

Hope this helps but magblade is in about the worst spot it’s ever been. I came back and messaged the best magblade I know for some build updates, his response was simple, “class is trash right now”. feels bad but maybe or time will come again. Did I mention I’d love our cloak purge back?

Sadly buffing cloak has one issue. It also buffs the already strong stamblades. I still think cloak, or at least the invisible morph, should require 5 pieces of light armor.
Or perhaps add a bonus (snare removal) which requires 5 pieces of light armor.

Very interesting idea here! Armor passives off certain abilities is a really intriguing option. I’d like this to gain traction! @Gilliamtherogue @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

that would kill stamblade class identity. being an assassin isn't unique to light armor... The second suggestion where light armor gives snare removal to cloak is okay though!

Not to mention heavy armor NBs! Imho class skills should never have armor weight requirements.
That would narrow down build variety too much. Every Nightblade should be able to use which ever morph they like in their class skills, no matter what kind of armor type they use.

You’re misunderstanding. This would make the cost / reward more intriguing for different armors. Say medium kept cloak crit, mag got snare removal and heavy an armor buff or mitigation, etc.

Still not fan of that idea, tbh. That would still punish different playstyles, if bonuses are relying on armor weight.
For example your idea would nerf all of those magicka based builds, which are using cloack for crits. Even I often get that extra crit out for firing strong assassin's will bow proc. But then again I'm pretty sure that stam builds would also love to get alternative way to fight against snares without spamming FM/shuffle.
And those are only examples. My point is that we already make a choice when selecting class to play with and imo morph's extra effect bonuses should be available for every armor weight, without adding more limits between gear types.
(However I do agree with HaruKamui, that passive is fine which increases the duration of major resolve/ward, depending how many heavy armor pieces are equipped.)

Datthaw · March 2019

Yeah that wouldn't work for the playstyle i like a more heavy armor brawling magnb. I would want that snare removal.

HowlKimchi · March 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

As for the race, i'm a dunmer. Always has been, and always will. Not the best but i'm never race changing my main

I'd say other good races are highelf, khajit, and argonian. I actually don't think breton is good since they way I see it, we need some sort of additional help to our stam sustain. We need to be able to roll because we dont have snare removal. I'm running a high tri-stat recovery magblade and it's very fluid for me. in BGs if there aren't a lot of wing spamming DKs i do very well. I just average at about 5:1 K:D. The additional stam sustain really helps my survival. roll -> cloak is a prett nice. My damage dealt isn't the highest. I think it's because im purely single target and I usually get kills not with sustained damage but with big instances of burst.

Given the class passives my approach has always been throwing a few stam recovery pieces into the gear. NBs generally benefit from recoveries alot, and when running two stam recovery pieces (e.g. shackle and bloodspawn), you have amazing stam sustain and can dodgeroll all day long. For now I'm running amberplasm and the added 250 recovery is enough to keep me rolling all day long. I wouln't suggest selecting your racial just by stam management

Yeah I do use amber plasm. But my approach is a bit different I guess. I don't like being limited with the sets since I like to switch builds A LOT. Theorycrafting is fun.So I eventually gravited to dealing with stamina management using a racial bonus and a mixture of either drinks, mundus, well fitted, or armor/jewelry glyphs. Having a race that helps with stam is nice for me since it gives me flexibility without an additional cost.

I've tried heavy armor damage sets, defensive light armor sets, healer builds, CP and no CP and the ever present stam sustain a race gives is always useful.

Metemsycosis · March 2019

kaithuzar wrote: »

Has anyone ever thought of/tried using higher stam recovery/better stam sustain & using re-arming trap in place of fear?
I know it’s a stam skill/magblade pve “let me inflate my dummy parse” skill but I feel like I would rather use that than fear trap, maybe even over normal fear?
It probably won’t work as well open world but you’ve got to admit cc + crit dmg buff sounds like bar saving goodness.

I have a hybrid trapper build that uses rearming. Can say it gives a lot of bang for its buck but i tie it to caltrops, fear trap, volcanic rune, eternal hunt, twisting path, blockade of ice.

Makes the soul harvest merciless thing really easy and surprisingly effective

fred4 · March 2019

HaruKamui wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

As for the race, i'm a dunmer. Always has been, and always will. Not the best but i'm never race changing my main

I'd say other good races are highelf, khajit, and argonian. I actually don't think breton is good since they way I see it, we need some sort of additional help to our stam sustain. We need to be able to roll because we dont have snare removal. I'm running a high tri-stat recovery magblade and it's very fluid for me. in BGs if there aren't a lot of wing spamming DKs i do very well. I just average at about 5:1 K:D. The additional stam sustain really helps my survival. roll -> cloak is a prett nice. My damage dealt isn't the highest. I think it's because im purely single target and I usually get kills not with sustained damage but with big instances of burst.

Given the class passives my approach has always been throwing a few stam recovery pieces into the gear. NBs generally benefit from recoveries alot, and when running two stam recovery pieces (e.g. shackle and bloodspawn), you have amazing stam sustain and can dodgeroll all day long. For now I'm running amberplasm and the added 250 recovery is enough to keep me rolling all day long. I wouln't suggest selecting your racial just by stam management

Yeah I do use amber plasm. But my approach is a bit different I guess. I don't like being limited with the sets since I like to switch builds A LOT. Theorycrafting is fun.So I eventually gravited to dealing with stamina management using a racial bonus and a mixture of either drinks, mundus, well fitted, or armor/jewelry glyphs. Having a race that helps with stam is nice for me since it gives me flexibility without an additional cost.

I've tried heavy armor damage sets, defensive light armor sets, healer builds, CP and no CP and the ever present stam sustain a race gives is always useful.

Yeah, I use the Bull Netch on my magden. Having stam sustain that works while you're blocking and sprinting is noticeably superior to Amber Plasm. Warden is also much better sorted for healing (Trellis) and mine has a much larger shield (50K mag). Since I don't use Forward Momentum on that character and lean more on the shield and healing, stamina management is a lot easier.

I have shied away from using Leeching Strikes on magblade, because the heals then use your weapon crit, nerfing one of your few sources of healing.

fred4 · March 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

As for the race, i'm a dunmer. Always has been, and always will. Not the best but i'm never race changing my main

I'd say other good races are highelf, khajit, and argonian. I actually don't think breton is good since they way I see it, we need some sort of additional help to our stam sustain. We need to be able to roll because we dont have snare removal. I'm running a high tri-stat recovery magblade and it's very fluid for me. in BGs if there aren't a lot of wing spamming DKs i do very well. I just average at about 5:1 K:D. The additional stam sustain really helps my survival. roll -> cloak is a prett nice. My damage dealt isn't the highest. I think it's because im purely single target and I usually get kills not with sustained damage but with big instances of burst.

Given the class passives my approach has always been throwing a few stam recovery pieces into the gear. NBs generally benefit from recoveries alot, and when running two stam recovery pieces (e.g. shackle and bloodspawn), you have amazing stam sustain and can dodgeroll all day long. For now I'm running amberplasm and the added 250 recovery is enough to keep me rolling all day long. I wouln't suggest selecting your racial just by stam management

Lol, that is a complete exaggeration. Amber Plasm or BS + Shackle are good sets only by virtue of the fact that they're among the best that magicka characters have been given. I find them barely adequate for stam sustain, especially in no CP. I'm fine with it, since I think a magblade's strengths lie elsewhere (cloak and speed). All day long dodge rolling would be a Woodelf in all Well-Fitted medium (Impregnable) and 3x stamina cost reduction enchants.

Jeezye · March 2019

fred4 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

As for the race, i'm a dunmer. Always has been, and always will. Not the best but i'm never race changing my main

I'd say other good races are highelf, khajit, and argonian. I actually don't think breton is good since they way I see it, we need some sort of additional help to our stam sustain. We need to be able to roll because we dont have snare removal. I'm running a high tri-stat recovery magblade and it's very fluid for me. in BGs if there aren't a lot of wing spamming DKs i do very well. I just average at about 5:1 K:D. The additional stam sustain really helps my survival. roll -> cloak is a prett nice. My damage dealt isn't the highest. I think it's because im purely single target and I usually get kills not with sustained damage but with big instances of burst.

Given the class passives my approach has always been throwing a few stam recovery pieces into the gear. NBs generally benefit from recoveries alot, and when running two stam recovery pieces (e.g. shackle and bloodspawn), you have amazing stam sustain and can dodgeroll all day long. For now I'm running amberplasm and the added 250 recovery is enough to keep me rolling all day long. I wouln't suggest selecting your racial just by stam management

Lol, that is a complete exaggeration. Amber Plasm or BS + Shackle are good sets only by virtue of the fact that they're among the best that magicka characters have been given. I find them barely adequate for stam sustain, especially in no CP. I'm fine with it, since I think a magblade's strengths lie elsewhere (cloak and speed). All day long dodge rolling would be a Woodelf in all Well-Fitted medium (Impregnable) and 3x stamina cost reduction enchants.

well of course you can't spamm dodgeroll like stamina peers but for a magicka build you have tons of stam sustain with that 1k regen and 14-15k stam pool. EDIT: I'm referring to CP btw, havent played much magblade in bgs for a while

fred4 · March 2019

Not everyone is a vampire.

Iskiab · March 2019

fred4 wrote: »

Not everyone is a vampire.

I wouldn’t be a vampire in pvp anyways, well at least not as a magblade.

Fiktius · March 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Not everyone is a vampire.

I wouldn’t be a vampire in pvp anyways, well at least not as a magblade.

I agree! Also my magblade is non-vampire Breton and I have no sustain issues with magicka nor stamina.
I also use tri-stat food, so my stamina pool is 17 K in CP campaigns.

Jeezye · March 2019

Hey, just wanted to share my latest setup that is surprisingly effective and hear for opinions how to polish it. Most important thing, I dropped dark cloak and opted for a speedy invis build with steed, conceiled and RAT. Secondly, I run masterstaff as a spammable together with skoria since this is the last combo I could remember that worked for me a few patches ago. Combination of cripple, degen, reach and double dot poisons makes for a surprisingly high pressure build that procs Skoria almost on CD. Even against DKs I can run degen and conceiled, and sneak in reach and cripple.

Needless to say, when cought people cut through me like paper, I don't have a snigle heal on my bars besides healing ward and a very limited stampool. Whole survivability is centered around cloak and speed, and proccing reapers mark.

Since I've really enjoyed the dot style build with skoria and think it might be the best bet against reflects and dodgerolls this patch, what do you guys think one could do to make the build more rounded? Passive healing via swallow soul and leeching strikes would be nice but there's no barspace at all. Also I'm currently running amberplasm + SS resto which is totally interchangebale - even hist sap might be an option.

Link: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=52375

Iskiab · March 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

Hey, just wanted to share my latest setup that is surprisingly effective and hear for opinions how to polish it. Most important thing, I dropped dark cloak and opted for a speedy invis build with steed, conceiled and RAT. Secondly, I run masterstaff as a spammable together with skoria since this is the last combo I could remember that worked for me a few patches ago. Combination of cripple, degen, reach and double dot poisons makes for a surprisingly high pressure build that procs Skoria almost on CD. Even against DKs I can run degen and conceiled, and sneak in reach and cripple.

Needless to say, when cought people cut through me like paper, I don't have a snigle heal on my bars besides healing ward and a very limited stampool. Whole survivability is centered around cloak and speed, and proccing reapers mark.

Since I've really enjoyed the dot style build with skoria and think it might be the best bet against reflects and dodgerolls this patch, what do you guys think one could do to make the build more rounded? Passive healing via swallow soul and leeching strikes would be nice but there's no barspace at all. Also I'm currently running amberplasm + SS resto which is totally interchangebale - even hist sap might be an option.

Link: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=52375

Soul Siphon > then the resto ult.

I tried something similar initially on magblade but found pvp was too burst for such a long wind up. You won’t be up to the spammable portion of your rotation until your 4th GCD. With the burst in pvp these days I found it difficult to apply, especially with multiple targets running around, and that’s even if you’re free casting from a hidden position. That’s why I don’t like spell strategist too, with multiple targets and switches the set gives you a bonus against only one target.

What is your spammable btw?

I’d definitely add impale, plus maybe rapid regen on your back bar. Death matches are mostly about killing blows, and impale is one of the best executes in game

Jeezye · March 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Hey, just wanted to share my latest setup that is surprisingly effective and hear for opinions how to polish it. Most important thing, I dropped dark cloak and opted for a speedy invis build with steed, conceiled and RAT. Secondly, I run masterstaff as a spammable together with skoria since this is the last combo I could remember that worked for me a few patches ago. Combination of cripple, degen, reach and double dot poisons makes for a surprisingly high pressure build that procs Skoria almost on CD. Even against DKs I can run degen and conceiled, and sneak in reach and cripple.

Needless to say, when cought people cut through me like paper, I don't have a snigle heal on my bars besides healing ward and a very limited stampool. Whole survivability is centered around cloak and speed, and proccing reapers mark.

Since I've really enjoyed the dot style build with skoria and think it might be the best bet against reflects and dodgerolls this patch, what do you guys think one could do to make the build more rounded? Passive healing via swallow soul and leeching strikes would be nice but there's no barspace at all. Also I'm currently running amberplasm + SS resto which is totally interchangebale - even hist sap might be an option.

Link: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=52375

Soul Siphon > then the resto ult.

I tried something similar initially on magblade but found pvp was too burst for such a long wind up. You won’t be up to the spammable portion of your rotation until your 4th GCD. With the burst in pvp these days I found it difficult to apply, especially with multiple targets running around, and that’s even if you’re free casting from a hidden position. That’s why I don’t like spell strategist too, with multiple targets and switches the set gives you a bonus against only one target.

What is your spammable btw?

I’d definitely add impale, plus maybe rapid regen on your back bar. Death matches are mostly about killing blows, and impale is one of the best executes in game

Ohh I've played this mainly in Cyrodiil CP environment, though it worked quite well in BGs too. Since I'm soloing most of the time resto ult def has the edge over soul siphon, though I agree siphon is better for group healing done.
Since I'm running master's in this setup reach is the spammable (with higher TTs than conceiled and swallow). However its not really a spammable since you rotate through the dots and most damage comes from light attacks.
I agree on spell strategist, its nice in some situations but in hectic fights the effect is almost lost. Usually I apply LA + degen from stealth so my target is marked already (also for degen heals), then switch to fire staff and reach/cripple them. Also depending on target I switch to conceiled on resto, which still does noticable damage.

LordTareq · March 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Not everyone is a vampire.

I wouldn’t be a vampire in pvp anyways, well at least not as a magblade.

I'm considering giving up vampire, but I'm still not certain whether the loss in sustain & stealth speed is actually beneficial over the reduced fire damage. At the moment I die very little in PvP as it is as a vampire. Admittedly I do withdraw a lot of times, but I doubt that would change much if I wasn't a vampire. Or are people's experiences that giving up vampire really helps with staying power?

Jeezye · March 2019

LordTareq wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Not everyone is a vampire.

I wouldn’t be a vampire in pvp anyways, well at least not as a magblade.

I'm considering giving up vampire, but I'm still not certain whether the loss in sustain & stealth speed is actually beneficial over the reduced fire damage. At the moment I die very little in PvP as it is as a vampire. Admittedly I do withdraw a lot of times, but I doubt that would change much if I wasn't a vampire. Or are people's experiences that giving up vampire really helps with staying power?

I dropped vamp two weeks ago and even while I'm running a way more squishy build than I used to it feels I take A LOT less burst damage. Can't tell you why but can definitly recommend

Kaysha · March 2019

You loose mainly mistform.
You gain health regeneration and take less damage from fire.
The later two points open up totally different possibilities like steed mundus, health regen from food and trollking. And this will change you´re gameplay drastically, because all of the sudden you heal while using shadowy disguise.

Iskiab · March 2019

It’s the change in how vulnerabilities are calculated. You are taking more fire damage.

Basicly vulnerabilities are calculated excluding mitigation. That means from being a vamp people are doing an additional 25% of their tooltip damage vs being a non-vamp - fire damage only.

kaithuzar · March 2019

@Jeezye
Areas for improvement:
1) Get rid of spell strategist, try innate axiom or julianos w/heavy chest & legs or head (5 light, 2 heavy), or a 5 piece defense set if using infused sp dmg glyphs
2) use inner light not radiant
3) use healing ward not ward ally
4) put concealed front bar, get rid of reapers & use siphoning attacks back bar
5) get rid of arcane glyphs & go infused or protective

#BasicMagbladeAdvice
GLHF

Jeezye · March 2019

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Jeezye
Areas for improvement:
1) Get rid of spell strategist, try innate axiom or julianos w/heavy chest & legs or head (5 light, 2 heavy), or a 5 piece defense set if using infused sp dmg glyphs
2) use inner light not radiant
3) use healing ward not ward ally
4) put concealed front bar, get rid of reapers & use siphoning attacks back bar
5) get rid of arcane glyphs & go infused or protective

#BasicMagbladeAdvice
GLHF

Thx for the answer, however I'd like to question a few:

1) My problem is that I needed a set that can proc from my backbar. Since I'm likely to drop master's inferno I'll play around with other choices. How come you haven't mentioned BTB?
2) Reason behind radiant is the high radius and immunity to snipe CCs. However I'll drop light in regards to barspace anyways and move to crit pots.
3) Already using healing ward, mistake on my side.
4) Are you sure damage without major resistance debuffs is on par? The way reaper's application slows down my rotation def speaks against it. I'd love to incorporate siphoning strikes into the build.
5) arcane def isnt bis atm, but I still struggle to believe infused actually provides better stats taking the loss in max mag sustain into account. My bet is on protective or triune, though I tend to triune due to stam management.

Thx for the reply!

Iskiab · March 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Jeezye
Areas for improvement:
1) Get rid of spell strategist, try innate axiom or julianos w/heavy chest & legs or head (5 light, 2 heavy), or a 5 piece defense set if using infused sp dmg glyphs
2) use inner light not radiant
3) use healing ward not ward ally
4) put concealed front bar, get rid of reapers & use siphoning attacks back bar
5) get rid of arcane glyphs & go infused or protective

#BasicMagbladeAdvice
GLHF

Thx for the answer, however I'd like to question a few:

5) arcane def isnt bis atm, but I still struggle to believe infused actually provides better stats taking the loss in max mag sustain into account. My bet is on protective or triune, though I tend to triune due to stam management.

Thx for the reply!

Yea, infused isn’t worth it as a magblade with a sp rune. It’s decent to increase your regen with a magicka recovery rune. Protective I like but can’t be relied on as your sole defense. Depends on if you want to be a glass canon or survive more then a couple GCDs if you’re attacked.

fred4 · March 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Jeezye
Areas for improvement:
1) Get rid of spell strategist, try innate axiom or julianos w/heavy chest & legs or head (5 light, 2 heavy), or a 5 piece defense set if using infused sp dmg glyphs
2) use inner light not radiant
3) use healing ward not ward ally
4) put concealed front bar, get rid of reapers & use siphoning attacks back bar
5) get rid of arcane glyphs & go infused or protective

#BasicMagbladeAdvice
GLHF

Thx for the answer, however I'd like to question a few:

1) My problem is that I needed a set that can proc from my backbar. Since I'm likely to drop master's inferno I'll play around with other choices. How come you haven't mentioned BTB?
2) Reason behind radiant is the high radius and immunity to snipe CCs. However I'll drop light in regards to barspace anyways and move to crit pots.
3) Already using healing ward, mistake on my side.
4) Are you sure damage without major resistance debuffs is on par? The way reaper's application slows down my rotation def speaks against it. I'd love to incorporate siphoning strikes into the build.
5) arcane def isnt bis atm, but I still struggle to believe infused actually provides better stats taking the loss in max mag sustain into account. My bet is on protective or triune, though I tend to triune due to stam management.

Thx for the reply!

So I assume your back bar enchant is actually Berserker (+452 damage)? That plus Spell Strategist both gives you spell damage that carries over to the other bar, so I can see the logic of that.

I assumed you were using Ward Ally, because you get a guaranteed shield? I find it hard to play with just Healing Ward. Been inside a resource tower and Healing Ward did not work. I can only assume it repeatedly procced on someone just outside, maybe even an NPC guard (though I'm not sure that's possible). I have, thus far, always slotted Dampen as well for this reason. Also for shielding while turning a resource.

The skills I would drop are Mark and RAT. Mark because it telegraphs you. Good skill for extended duels, but I'd prefer Elemental Drain in that case. I suppose it depends on how much of a ganker you are, seeing you now have Cloak

.

RAT gives you extra damage, but I basically see that very short speed buff as a waste on a build that uses Concealed and Cloak. I suppose it depends on how it feels to you. I, for one, don't like Double Take on my magblade either, although I do like it on my stamblade.

If you're dropping the Master destro, then I suppose I'd go for Spinner front bar and vMA resto back bar. Love the vMA resto for the added sustain, which allows you to go for more damage glyphs. That said, as much more of a ganker myself, I do not like that buffing with Mutagen / Rapid Regen uncloaks me and possibly shoots a visible beam to another player. I don't use it on magblade for that reason.

No Shade, no Fear? I find my shields utter garbage at 33K magicka (in my case) and only base resistances. However the combination of Dampen -> Healing Ward -> Fear (-> Forward Momentum) -> Cloak works quite well, when focused by melee players. Fear is definitely a big part of that.

Going Arcane is fine, IMO. Not sure how Healing Ward scales, but Dampen scales with magicka. Of course my personal choice is 3x gold Swift and make sure you got Windrunning. I can't really overstate how much speed synergises with Cloak as a defense. I know you have RAT, but only 3 seconds and having to spend a GCD casting it? I don't know.

The problem with going for Swift is that it's another thing that eats away at your damage (and shields) in addition to the Steed. It works for me, because I run a proc build and because, as a melee magblade, I also need the speed offensively. Your mileage may vary.

Finally, you maybe already know how I feel about magicka recovery on magblade. I don't spec into it. I have 1380 magicka recovery, but Breton + 3x cost reduction. This optimises cloak sustain. In place of Amber Plasm I use Deep Thoughts. Whenever my stamina is low, I disengage and top it up. Magicka too. Stamina, though, comes back so fast with Deep Thoughts you can almost get away with doing it in people's faces, especially if you have CC immunity.

fred4 · March 2019

By the way, don't listen to me

. I've been told, sincerely, that I am the crappiest magblade another player had yet encountered. He/she was another magblade, a good one, using Shade, doing good damage, standard ranged rotation, yet being quite tanky when shielded. I can only figure they were using an Armor Master back bar, but of course I couldn't ask when they preempted my inquiry with trash talk. <Sigh>.

Iskiab · March 2019

fred4 wrote: »

By the way, don't listen to me . I've been told, sincerely, that I am the crappiest magblade another player had yet encountered. He/she was another magblade, a good one, using Shade, doing good damage, standard ranged rotation, yet being quite tanky when shielded. I can only figure they were using an Armor Master back bar, but of course I couldn't ask when they preempted my inquiry with trash talk. <Sigh>.

No, everything you’ve said makes a lot of sense. I use ward ally for the same reason, I don’t run solo so like the guaranteed shield. You’re brave to only run base resistances (does that mean no defensive set?) though in pvp. Only time I’ve pulled that off was with a high recovery build where I could cloak at will indefinitely (back bar lich and bright throat).

At what percentage does run speed cap out? 55%? If you run race against time/double take plus concealed you’re already at 50% in cloak, add the steed and you’re at 60% so a swift rune I don’t think does anything. Issue is bar space.

The main reason I want to try a melee magblade is bar space. You need a speed buff for cloak to work well. I think if I can figure out how to survive in melee as a magblade it’ll circumvent bar space crunch and make magblade not useless in an environment with lots of DKs and wardens.

I’d definitely try double take. Major evasion is nice if there’s lots of aoes being thrown around. It lasts a while too.

Jeezye · March 2019

fred4 wrote: »

The skills I would drop are Mark and RAT. Mark because it telegraphs you. Good skill for extended duels, but I'd prefer Elemental Drain in that case. I suppose it depends on how much of a ganker you are, seeing you now have Cloak .

RAT gives you extra damage, but I basically see that very short speed buff as a waste on a build that uses Concealed and Cloak. I suppose it depends on how it feels to you. I, for one, don't like Double Take on my magblade either, although I do like it on my stamblade.

Finally, you maybe already know how I feel about magicka recovery on magblade. I don't spec into it. I have 1380 magicka recovery, but Breton + 3x cost reduction. This optimises cloak sustain. In place of Amber Plasm I use Deep Thoughts. Whenever my stamina is low, I disengage and top it up. Magicka too. Stamina, though, comes back so fast with Deep Thoughts you can almost get away with doing it in people's faces, especially if you have CC immunity.

I liked mark for the reset potential which rewards more risky playstyles but in reality its not really worth due to loosing one GCD and telegraphing your burst even further, I agree. Not sure though if damage is on par without major breach...

As for RAT, this was more of an experiment. Since I play a dot heavy setup, crit naturally provides high pressure, therefore I wanted to opt for higher crit damage. Also mobility is pretty nice.

I'm not really playing a gank style build, people are well aware I'm around due to the dot playstyle, I just use cloak to constantly reposition and evade all snipes/ reach spammers. Therefore, the recovery is nice for additional dodgerolls.

thought about using leeching strikes instead of siphoning strikes too, as far as I could tell from tests they actually do scale of spell crit too.

fred4 · March 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

No, everything you’ve said makes a lot of sense.

You’re brave to only run base resistances (does that mean no defensive set?)

Correct. 3x damage sets (Zaan, Caluurion, Auroran's Thunder now).

Only time I’ve pulled that off was with a high recovery build where I could cloak at will indefinitely (back bar lich and bright throat).

High recovery is not the way to go, cost reduction is. Mag recovery from Bright Throat and Lich has NO EFFECT while out of combat. With that sort of setup you are liable to run down your magicka while cloaking out of combat, unless in the unlikely case you had Atro Mundus + drink + Breton as well (in which case you wouldn't wear those sets).

At what percentage does run speed cap out? 55%? If you run race against time/double take plus concealed you’re already at 50% in cloak, add the steed and you’re at 60% so a swift rune I don’t think does anything.

Speed cap is +100% above normal running speed.

Sprinting: +40%
Major Expedition: +30%
Minor Expedition: +10%
All Swift + Windrunning: +20%
Concealed + Cloak: +25%
Steed: +10%
Orc: +10%

You don't hit the cap in Cloak. Concealed + Steed + Swift + Windrunning + Major Expedition (Skooma Smuggler / RAT) = +85%

The main reason I want to try a melee magblade is bar space.

Agreed. You have to decide whether you want to be ranged or melee. You can slot Concealed in a ranged build (like Jeezye) or Swallow Soul in a melee build (like me) for the utility, but you won't be good at both playstyles in a single build.

You need a speed buff for cloak to work well.

Well, or the shade, I suppose. I'm in the speed buff camp, but Double Take or RAT ain't it. You don't have the magicka to sustain those AND cloak, nor the time to cast a speed buff when focused. That's why I like Skooma Smuggler. It's bad / hard enough to find the time and cast Forward Momentum or even Fear without being executed, because you didn't shield.

I think if I can figure out how to survive in melee as a magblade it’ll circumvent bar space crunch and make magblade not useless in an environment with lots of DKs and wardens.

That is indeed the point of running melee magblade. The speed and the DK factor. Forward Momentum goes without saying.

fred4 · March 2019

DANICA NERANO

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=130205

Who is she? My main and my best PvP character.

What is she? Melee magicka gankblade.

What is she good at? Ganking and brawling in open spaces where players are somewhat spread out. Surgically taking out players. Scouting and placing forward camps.

What is she not good at? Fighting tight ball groups. Doing AOE damage.

Does this build work in CP? Yes.

Does this build work in no CP? Yes, without changes.

Is this build easy to farm / get? No.

Does it require the Caluurion greatsword? Ideally, yes, in order to control when the Caluurion proc happens. Note that Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Incap results in a guaranteed proc, coinciding with Incap. You want to withhold the proc while building ultimate on the resto bar.

Do you really need to run 2H? Yes, for Forward Momentum. The synergy between Forward Momentum, Cloak and speed is one of the reasons to play melee magblade. It also reliably activates Troll King, should you wear that set.

Do you really need 3x Swift enchants + Steed mundus? Yes. Yes. Yes. Mobility is your strongest defense and has a very high synergy with Cloak. You also need speed while running after roll dodgers so you (eventually) hit them with Concealed and to keep them in range of Zaan and Auroran's Thunder.

Does the jewelry have to be gold? Ideally, yes, to make the most of Swift.

3x damage (proc) sets? Is that really the way to go? Yes. "Offense is the best defense" is the nightblade way and melee magblade is weak, without these procs, compared to stamblade.

Just how squishy are you? Very.

What do you think of Troll King? Not enough damage. Low time to kill and getting back into cloak is ultimately a better defense than Troll King, however I do wear it in conjunction with Imperial Physique and Caluurion while farming bosses in IC.

You still wear Caluurion while farming IC bosses? Yes, I'm always ready for PvP.

Is Auroran's Thunder any good? Caluurion and Zaan are the backbone of this build. Other sets (Spinner, Shacklebreaker, Amber Plasm, Skooma Smuggler) will work in place of Auroran's Thunder. However I like Thunder, because it exposes NBs and it's unavoidabe damage against roll dodgers. Sometimes that's the last bit of damage that kills them. Since it's shock damage, it can also proc Concussion and the penetration bonus synergises with the other proc sets. The damage is "meh", but Auroran's Thunder has a lot of hidden benefits.

Do I really need to eat Clockwork Citrus Fillet? Ideally, yes. You have little healing. Getting your health regen over 1K makes a difference in your ability to brawl as opposed to being a pure ganker.

What potion do you recommend? Immovability / Detection / Magicka.

Isn't your spell damage way too low? No. It's a proc build.

Isn't your magicka recovery way too low? No. It's a Breton with 3x cost reduction enchants.

Wouldn't magicka recovery enchants be better? No. See my post on out of combat cloak sustain.

Should I be a Breton? Probably.

Isn't your small stamina pool and low stam recovery a problem? That's what Deep Thoughts is for. Cloak away and use that at half stamina or drink a potion.

Can I perma-cloak with this build? Yes (out of combat).

Can I do that in no CP also? Yes, with Siphoning Attacks.

Where is the Major Sorcery and Minor Berserk coming from? Not using that. It's a proc build.

Why use Incap and not Soul Harvest? For the stun. It works better. Your most-used burst is Lotus Fan -> Incap.

I prefer Crippling Grasp over Lotus Fan. No one uses Lotus Fan, do they? Try Crippling then. I suspect Lotus Fan is still better in this build.

Why don't you use the Shade? Buggy, out of range, unresponsive. Fear, Forward Momentum and raw speed works better for me.

Why don't you use Merciless Resolve? Cause you aim to dip in and out of fights before that would ever proc.

Why don't you use Leeching Strikes for better stamina sustain? Because it's one of your few heals and Leeching Strkes uses weapon crit and would thus result in poorer heals. Siphoning Attacks also helps sustain cloak while in no CP or in combat.

Why use Swallow Soul when you have Concealed? For the heal. To have a ranged option for shooting into zergs. For IC boss fights. Against flag guards, where the healing is significant.

Why use the Prismatic enchant? For IC boss fights and against vampires. This build does up to 17K sustained DPS against IC bosses, in Imperial Physique trim, simply by weaving Swallow Soul.

Why put 31 points into Thaumaturge when your only DOT is Lotus Fan? For the Perfect Strike passive. 2H light attacks and the Prismatic weapon enchant use Weapon Crit.

56 points into Healthy CP? Isn't that a bit much? No. You want the Windrunning passive. Stam Recovery is close to zero either way and you'll rarely heavy attack with this build.

Why put 2 points into Siphoner? Doesn't that do nothing, because of CP jump points? Putting 1 point into Siphoner places an extra effect on players. Even though that effect does nothing, it makes it more difficult for players to purge other effects. The second point is redundant, but I had it left over and nowhere else to put it.

Does this build kill DKs? Yes. Be aware that Caluurion can be reflected, though, so you still have to be careful.

fred4 · March 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

thought about using leeching strikes instead of siphoning strikes too, as far as I could tell from tests they actually do scale of spell crit too.

A few patches back I looked at Leeching crit rate in target skeleton parses and it was using the weapon crit rate for the heals. Easy thing to re-test, I suppose.

fred4 · March 2019

By the way, I tried Protective. I love that trait on my magplar, but on the magblade it was useless. Swift is far, far better for my playstyle, both offensively and defensively.

kaithuzar · March 2019

@fred4
Honestly, I vote for you as nightblade class rep.
I agree with everything you post, I started running 2h with forward momentum because you mentioned your build maybe a year or so ago & ive never looked back.
There are slight differences in our builds/playstyles but it’s very slight.
You capitalize on proc sets because the reality is that it’s the only real viable method. I like to think I’m decent without them but against many players I’m less effective.

I would love to have a friendly duel but I doubt we play on the same location, I’m pc na you?