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Nightblade Still Over Performing
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Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭LiquidPony wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »lower damage of spectral bow for both specs
Remove the major defile from incap, keep the damage increase for pve sake
Make it so when cloaking HoTs are suppressed just like DoTs are.
Make surprise attack minor fracture instead of major fracture, this would help in pvp and doesn’t really have much effect in pve.
Remove fracture all together, making it minor fracture would just delete stamplar from PvE raiding completely
Yes, let's take one of the main utilities NB's have away from them. Why don't we just take away other class utilities too? Maybe while we're at it, just so we can be sure everything is fair, all weapons and skills in the game will do a flat 1,000dps each. That way everyone is perfectly balanced.
Thank goodness Zenimax doesn't listen to the people who cry the loudest and base their changes on that.
This and removing cloak is like removing the heal from Sorc's crit surge. Every class will always have something another class doesn't to keep them unique from each other. If they all have the same utilities, easy rotations and standardized dps, what would even be the point of picking anymore?
They would only lose fracture from Surprise Attack with this change. NB's still have access to Major Fracture long duration through Mark Target and morphs. Currently stam NB's have the best access to Major Fracture, from two class skills, one on a skill that not only does good damage but gives Major Ward and Resolve through passives. Only semi-rivaled by Wardens, DK's have access of course but on an inferior skill.
Stamblades already have the hardest rotation of any class in the game, bar none. This is a known and widely accepted fact. You're asking to remove a utility from their spammable and to go use a skill that wouldn't fit anywhere into their already overly-complicated rotation.
Honestly, PVP should just be balanced entirely separate from PVE. It's almost never PVE players asking for nerfs of other classes because none of them care. All classes do more than enough dps to clear all content. I wish my nightblade could heal for 3,000+ HP per second like sorcerer can, but you don't see me asking them to nerf sorcerers. I'm happy for them, they have their special skillset, I have mine.
It's always someone in PVP who gets ganked cause theyre probably a bad player and then comes to the forums to decry whatever class killed them and specifically target whatever skill got them in the death recap.
Magblades and magdens both have significantly more difficult rotations IMO, because they're not rotations at all since nothing really lines up. It's basically just ... cast whatever is off of cooldown in the most optimal order. Personally I think the magden "rotation" is the hardest in the game, followed by the magblade. Stamblade is much easier than either of them.
At least on a stamblade you are more-or-less doing an actual *rotation*.
Agreed, but that's besides the point of what they imagine is an issue. Unless looking at PURELY solo stamblade parses, losing Major Fracture from Surprise Attack will have little to no effect on PVE. No on is asking them to add Mark Target in PVE, StamSorcs and StamTemplars both do pure solo parses without it and do trials without any form of Major Fracture. The Majority of situations where Surprise Attack is being used in PVE the NB is not actually benefiting from Major Fracture as the tank is debuffing the target.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
Fusharji_Seht✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »lower damage of spectral bow for both specs
Remove the major defile from incap, keep the damage increase for pve sake
Make it so when cloaking HoTs are suppressed just like DoTs are.
Make surprise attack minor fracture instead of major fracture, this would help in pvp and doesn’t really have much effect in pve.
Remove fracture all together, making it minor fracture would just delete stamplar from PvE raiding completely
Yes, let's take one of the main utilities NB's have away from them. Why don't we just take away other class utilities too? Maybe while we're at it, just so we can be sure everything is fair, all weapons and skills in the game will do a flat 1,000dps each. That way everyone is perfectly balanced.
Thank goodness Zenimax doesn't listen to the people who cry the loudest and base their changes on that.
This and removing cloak is like removing the heal from Sorc's crit surge. Every class will always have something another class doesn't to keep them unique from each other. If they all have the same utilities, easy rotations and standardized dps, what would even be the point of picking anymore?
They would only lose fracture from Surprise Attack with this change. NB's still have access to Major Fracture long duration through Mark Target and morphs. Currently stam NB's have the best access to Major Fracture, from two class skills, one on a skill that not only does good damage but gives Major Ward and Resolve through passives. Only semi-rivaled by Wardens, DK's have access of course but on an inferior skill.
Stamblades already have the hardest rotation of any class in the game, bar none. This is a known and widely accepted fact. You're asking to remove a utility from their spammable and to go use a skill that wouldn't fit anywhere into their already overly-complicated rotation.
Honestly, PVP should just be balanced entirely separate from PVE. It's almost never PVE players asking for nerfs of other classes because none of them care. All classes do more than enough dps to clear all content. I wish my nightblade could heal for 3,000+ HP per second like sorcerer can, but you don't see me asking them to nerf sorcerers. I'm happy for them, they have their special skillset, I have mine.
It's always someone in PVP who gets ganked cause theyre probably a bad player and then comes to the forums to decry whatever class killed them and specifically target whatever skill got them in the death recap.
The only time they need to use that "utility" in PVE is for dummy tests so no it won't have any real affect. Tanks provide Major Fracture on Bosses, DK's/Wardens provide AOE Major Fracture for adds(if you even care to have it). One single target add isn't making or breaking PVE.
Making up imagined scenarios for where "nerf" threads come from doesn't validate your opinion,.
1. Having to slot another skill in place of something actually useful just to get a buff you previously had means your DPS is going to be lower.
2. People do play solo content and it's nice to have access to the utility without needing a tank to supplement you.
By your logic, no class should have access to any utility that the tank is applying because it's redundant once you're doing group content.
The worst part about this is having to come onto the forums to defend your class from being stripped down cause someone got rekt in PVP or they can't do enough dps. This doesn't just go for nightblades. Practically every class at some point has people who don't play it come onto here and bash it. Then everyone else has to defend it since it's already functioning perfectly well.Edited by Fusharji_Seht on February 22, 2019 8:35PM3 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »lower damage of spectral bow for both specs
Remove the major defile from incap, keep the damage increase for pve sake
Make it so when cloaking HoTs are suppressed just like DoTs are.
Make surprise attack minor fracture instead of major fracture, this would help in pvp and doesn’t really have much effect in pve.
Remove fracture all together, making it minor fracture would just delete stamplar from PvE raiding completely
Yes, let's take one of the main utilities NB's have away from them. Why don't we just take away other class utilities too? Maybe while we're at it, just so we can be sure everything is fair, all weapons and skills in the game will do a flat 1,000dps each. That way everyone is perfectly balanced.
Thank goodness Zenimax doesn't listen to the people who cry the loudest and base their changes on that.
This and removing cloak is like removing the heal from Sorc's crit surge. Every class will always have something another class doesn't to keep them unique from each other. If they all have the same utilities, easy rotations and standardized dps, what would even be the point of picking anymore?
Hard hitting abilities shouldn't come with powerful debuffs (especially if they're a spammable), change my mind. Stamblade doesn't lack damage anyways, removing fracture would tune down their damage, which is very much needed.2 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »lower damage of spectral bow for both specs
Remove the major defile from incap, keep the damage increase for pve sake
Make it so when cloaking HoTs are suppressed just like DoTs are.
Make surprise attack minor fracture instead of major fracture, this would help in pvp and doesn’t really have much effect in pve.
Remove fracture all together, making it minor fracture would just delete stamplar from PvE raiding completely
Yes, let's take one of the main utilities NB's have away from them. Why don't we just take away other class utilities too? Maybe while we're at it, just so we can be sure everything is fair, all weapons and skills in the game will do a flat 1,000dps each. That way everyone is perfectly balanced.
Thank goodness Zenimax doesn't listen to the people who cry the loudest and base their changes on that.
This and removing cloak is like removing the heal from Sorc's crit surge. Every class will always have something another class doesn't to keep them unique from each other. If they all have the same utilities, easy rotations and standardized dps, what would even be the point of picking anymore?
They would only lose fracture from Surprise Attack with this change. NB's still have access to Major Fracture long duration through Mark Target and morphs. Currently stam NB's have the best access to Major Fracture, from two class skills, one on a skill that not only does good damage but gives Major Ward and Resolve through passives. Only semi-rivaled by Wardens, DK's have access of course but on an inferior skill.
Stamblades already have the hardest rotation of any class in the game, bar none. This is a known and widely accepted fact. You're asking to remove a utility from their spammable and to go use a skill that wouldn't fit anywhere into their already overly-complicated rotation.
Honestly, PVP should just be balanced entirely separate from PVE. It's almost never PVE players asking for nerfs of other classes because none of them care. All classes do more than enough dps to clear all content. I wish my nightblade could heal for 3,000+ HP per second like sorcerer can, but you don't see me asking them to nerf sorcerers. I'm happy for them, they have their special skillset, I have mine.
It's always someone in PVP who gets ganked cause theyre probably a bad player and then comes to the forums to decry whatever class killed them and specifically target whatever skill got them in the death recap.
I haven't seen anyone complaing about any class beside nightblade. I created a bow/bow build for pve and pvp. Too much dmg, i haven't been able to get close numbers with stamsorcs and stamplars.2 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I play NB I'm just not a biased solo role player. NB dps is just fine without Major Fracture from Surprise Attack. There is no solo content that requires Major Fracture for anything, LITERALLY NONE.Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »lower damage of spectral bow for both specs
Remove the major defile from incap, keep the damage increase for pve sake
Make it so when cloaking HoTs are suppressed just like DoTs are.
Make surprise attack minor fracture instead of major fracture, this would help in pvp and doesn’t really have much effect in pve.
Remove fracture all together, making it minor fracture would just delete stamplar from PvE raiding completely
Yes, let's take one of the main utilities NB's have away from them. Why don't we just take away other class utilities too? Maybe while we're at it, just so we can be sure everything is fair, all weapons and skills in the game will do a flat 1,000dps each. That way everyone is perfectly balanced.
Thank goodness Zenimax doesn't listen to the people who cry the loudest and base their changes on that.
This and removing cloak is like removing the heal from Sorc's crit surge. Every class will always have something another class doesn't to keep them unique from each other. If they all have the same utilities, easy rotations and standardized dps, what would even be the point of picking anymore?
They would only lose fracture from Surprise Attack with this change. NB's still have access to Major Fracture long duration through Mark Target and morphs. Currently stam NB's have the best access to Major Fracture, from two class skills, one on a skill that not only does good damage but gives Major Ward and Resolve through passives. Only semi-rivaled by Wardens, DK's have access of course but on an inferior skill.
Stamblades already have the hardest rotation of any class in the game, bar none. This is a known and widely accepted fact. You're asking to remove a utility from their spammable and to go use a skill that wouldn't fit anywhere into their already overly-complicated rotation.
Honestly, PVP should just be balanced entirely separate from PVE. It's almost never PVE players asking for nerfs of other classes because none of them care. All classes do more than enough dps to clear all content. I wish my nightblade could heal for 3,000+ HP per second like sorcerer can, but you don't see me asking them to nerf sorcerers. I'm happy for them, they have their special skillset, I have mine.
It's always someone in PVP who gets ganked cause theyre probably a bad player and then comes to the forums to decry whatever class killed them and specifically target whatever skill got them in the death recap.
The only time they need to use that "utility" in PVE is for dummy tests so no it won't have any real affect. Tanks provide Major Fracture on Bosses, DK's/Wardens provide AOE Major Fracture for adds(if you even care to have it). One single target add isn't making or breaking PVE.
Making up imagined scenarios for where "nerf" threads come from doesn't validate your opinion,.
1. Having to slot another skill in place of something actually useful just to get a buff you previously had means your DPS is going to be lower.
2. People do play solo content and it's nice to have access to the utility without needing a tank to supplement you.
By your logic, no class should have access to any utility that the tank is applying because it's redundant once you're doing group content.
The worst part about this is having to come onto the forums to defend your class from being stripped down cause someone got rekt in PVP or they can't do enough dps. This doesn't just go for nightblades. Practically every class at some point as people who don't play it come onto here and bash it. Then everyone else has to defend it since it's already functioning perfectly well.
Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »lower damage of spectral bow for both specs
Remove the major defile from incap, keep the damage increase for pve sake
Make it so when cloaking HoTs are suppressed just like DoTs are.
Make surprise attack minor fracture instead of major fracture, this would help in pvp and doesn’t really have much effect in pve.
Remove fracture all together, making it minor fracture would just delete stamplar from PvE raiding completely
Yes, let's take one of the main utilities NB's have away from them. Why don't we just take away other class utilities too? Maybe while we're at it, just so we can be sure everything is fair, all weapons and skills in the game will do a flat 1,000dps each. That way everyone is perfectly balanced.
Thank goodness Zenimax doesn't listen to the people who cry the loudest and base their changes on that.
This and removing cloak is like removing the heal from Sorc's crit surge. Every class will always have something another class doesn't to keep them unique from each other. If they all have the same utilities, easy rotations and standardized dps, what would even be the point of picking anymore?
They would only lose fracture from Surprise Attack with this change. NB's still have access to Major Fracture long duration through Mark Target and morphs. Currently stam NB's have the best access to Major Fracture, from two class skills, one on a skill that not only does good damage but gives Major Ward and Resolve through passives. Only semi-rivaled by Wardens, DK's have access of course but on an inferior skill.
Stamblades already have the hardest rotation of any class in the game, bar none. This is a known and widely accepted fact. You're asking to remove a utility from their spammable and to go use a skill that wouldn't fit anywhere into their already overly-complicated rotation.
Honestly, PVP should just be balanced entirely separate from PVE. It's almost never PVE players asking for nerfs of other classes because none of them care. All classes do more than enough dps to clear all content. I wish my nightblade could heal for 3,000+ HP per second like sorcerer can, but you don't see me asking them to nerf sorcerers. I'm happy for them, they have their special skillset, I have mine.
It's always someone in PVP who gets ganked cause theyre probably a bad player and then comes to the forums to decry whatever class killed them and specifically target whatever skill got them in the death recap.
Magblades and magdens both have significantly more difficult rotations IMO, because they're not rotations at all since nothing really lines up. It's basically just ... cast whatever is off of cooldown in the most optimal order. Personally I think the magden "rotation" is the hardest in the game, followed by the magblade. Stamblade is much easier than either of them.
At least on a stamblade you are more-or-less doing an actual *rotation*.
Agreed, but that's besides the point of what they imagine is an issue. Unless looking at PURELY solo stamblade parses, losing Major Fracture from Surprise Attack will have little to no effect on PVE. No on is asking them to add Mark Target in PVE, StamSorcs and StamTemplars both do pure solo parses without it and do trials without any form of Major Fracture. The Majority of situations where Surprise Attack is being used in PVE the NB is not actually benefiting from Major Fracture as the tank is debuffing the target.
That is right, but it is still the highest hitting spammable, instant spamble atleast.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »lower damage of spectral bow for both specs
Remove the major defile from incap, keep the damage increase for pve sake
Make it so when cloaking HoTs are suppressed just like DoTs are.
Make surprise attack minor fracture instead of major fracture, this would help in pvp and doesn’t really have much effect in pve.
Remove fracture all together, making it minor fracture would just delete stamplar from PvE raiding completely
Yes, let's take one of the main utilities NB's have away from them. Why don't we just take away other class utilities too? Maybe while we're at it, just so we can be sure everything is fair, all weapons and skills in the game will do a flat 1,000dps each. That way everyone is perfectly balanced.
Thank goodness Zenimax doesn't listen to the people who cry the loudest and base their changes on that.
This and removing cloak is like removing the heal from Sorc's crit surge. Every class will always have something another class doesn't to keep them unique from each other. If they all have the same utilities, easy rotations and standardized dps, what would even be the point of picking anymore?
They would only lose fracture from Surprise Attack with this change. NB's still have access to Major Fracture long duration through Mark Target and morphs. Currently stam NB's have the best access to Major Fracture, from two class skills, one on a skill that not only does good damage but gives Major Ward and Resolve through passives. Only semi-rivaled by Wardens, DK's have access of course but on an inferior skill.
Stamblades already have the hardest rotation of any class in the game, bar none. This is a known and widely accepted fact. You're asking to remove a utility from their spammable and to go use a skill that wouldn't fit anywhere into their already overly-complicated rotation.
Honestly, PVP should just be balanced entirely separate from PVE. It's almost never PVE players asking for nerfs of other classes because none of them care. All classes do more than enough dps to clear all content. I wish my nightblade could heal for 3,000+ HP per second like sorcerer can, but you don't see me asking them to nerf sorcerers. I'm happy for them, they have their special skillset, I have mine.
It's always someone in PVP who gets ganked cause theyre probably a bad player and then comes to the forums to decry whatever class killed them and specifically target whatever skill got them in the death recap.
The only time they need to use that "utility" in PVE is for dummy tests so no it won't have any real affect. Tanks provide Major Fracture on Bosses, DK's/Wardens provide AOE Major Fracture for adds(if you even care to have it). One single target add isn't making or breaking PVE.
Making up imagined scenarios for where "nerf" threads come from doesn't validate your opinion,.
1. Having to slot another skill in place of something actually useful just to get a buff you previously had means your DPS is going to be lower.
2. People do play solo content and it's nice to have access to the utility without needing a tank to supplement you.
By your logic, no class should have access to any utility that the tank is applying because it's redundant once you're doing group content.
The worst part about this is having to come onto the forums to defend your class from being stripped down cause someone got rekt in PVP or they can't do enough dps. This doesn't just go for nightblades. Practically every class at some point has people who don't play it come onto here and bash it. Then everyone else has to defend it since it's already functioning perfectly well.
Why do you need 2 sources of major fracture, minor maim, major expedition, 3 or 4 stuns, and passive magor ward and resorlve in 1 class. It just doesn't make any since.0 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Quite comical that the NB crowd are the loudest for nerfs to everything else but their class. Nah fam just bring everything up. Like in what reality is it that when 1 class is outperforming all others is it even an idea to bring up 4 other classes to their standard? From a balance standpoint bringing the 1 down is far easier and correct.3 -
Fusharji_Seht✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »lower damage of spectral bow for both specs
Remove the major defile from incap, keep the damage increase for pve sake
Make it so when cloaking HoTs are suppressed just like DoTs are.
Make surprise attack minor fracture instead of major fracture, this would help in pvp and doesn’t really have much effect in pve.
Remove fracture all together, making it minor fracture would just delete stamplar from PvE raiding completely
Yes, let's take one of the main utilities NB's have away from them. Why don't we just take away other class utilities too? Maybe while we're at it, just so we can be sure everything is fair, all weapons and skills in the game will do a flat 1,000dps each. That way everyone is perfectly balanced.
Thank goodness Zenimax doesn't listen to the people who cry the loudest and base their changes on that.
This and removing cloak is like removing the heal from Sorc's crit surge. Every class will always have something another class doesn't to keep them unique from each other. If they all have the same utilities, easy rotations and standardized dps, what would even be the point of picking anymore?
They would only lose fracture from Surprise Attack with this change. NB's still have access to Major Fracture long duration through Mark Target and morphs. Currently stam NB's have the best access to Major Fracture, from two class skills, one on a skill that not only does good damage but gives Major Ward and Resolve through passives. Only semi-rivaled by Wardens, DK's have access of course but on an inferior skill.
Stamblades already have the hardest rotation of any class in the game, bar none. This is a known and widely accepted fact. You're asking to remove a utility from their spammable and to go use a skill that wouldn't fit anywhere into their already overly-complicated rotation.
Honestly, PVP should just be balanced entirely separate from PVE. It's almost never PVE players asking for nerfs of other classes because none of them care. All classes do more than enough dps to clear all content. I wish my nightblade could heal for 3,000+ HP per second like sorcerer can, but you don't see me asking them to nerf sorcerers. I'm happy for them, they have their special skillset, I have mine.
It's always someone in PVP who gets ganked cause theyre probably a bad player and then comes to the forums to decry whatever class killed them and specifically target whatever skill got them in the death recap.
Magblades and magdens both have significantly more difficult rotations IMO, because they're not rotations at all since nothing really lines up. It's basically just ... cast whatever is off of cooldown in the most optimal order. Personally I think the magden "rotation" is the hardest in the game, followed by the magblade. Stamblade is much easier than either of them.
At least on a stamblade you are more-or-less doing an actual *rotation*.
Agreed, but that's besides the point of what they imagine is an issue. Unless looking at PURELY solo stamblade parses, losing Major Fracture from Surprise Attack will have little to no effect on PVE. No on is asking them to add Mark Target in PVE, StamSorcs and StamTemplars both do pure solo parses without it and do trials without any form of Major Fracture. The Majority of situations where Surprise Attack is being used in PVE the NB is not actually benefiting from Major Fracture as the tank is debuffing the target.
That is right, but it is still the highest hitting spammable, instant spamble atleast.
Someone will always have the hardest hitting spammable. Be it by 100dps or 1,000dps, there will always be the class that hits just slightly harder. This, like every other "NERF [BLANK] THEY'RE TOO STRONG" thread, is nothing more than wanting to bring others down so whatever other class can say they're the new BiS in town. Disregarding PVP, since the game shouldn't be balanced entirely around that, every class can complete every piece of content. All dps are within 1-2k of each other in raid environments. So again, what is the real problem here if we are disregarding PVP? Jealously that a class has a better spammable?4 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Toc de Malsvi , no Fracture in vMA, thank you very much for that bright idea.4 -
Fusharji_Seht✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Toc de Malsvi , no Fracture in vMA, thank you very much for that bright idea.
Right? Wonder how many have tried completing VMA on a stamblade, where it's literally kill everything before it can kill you since you have such a low amount of defensive options.1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »lower damage of spectral bow for both specs
Remove the major defile from incap, keep the damage increase for pve sake
Make it so when cloaking HoTs are suppressed just like DoTs are.
Make surprise attack minor fracture instead of major fracture, this would help in pvp and doesn’t really have much effect in pve.
Remove fracture all together, making it minor fracture would just delete stamplar from PvE raiding completely
Yes, let's take one of the main utilities NB's have away from them. Why don't we just take away other class utilities too? Maybe while we're at it, just so we can be sure everything is fair, all weapons and skills in the game will do a flat 1,000dps each. That way everyone is perfectly balanced.
Thank goodness Zenimax doesn't listen to the people who cry the loudest and base their changes on that.
This and removing cloak is like removing the heal from Sorc's crit surge. Every class will always have something another class doesn't to keep them unique from each other. If they all have the same utilities, easy rotations and standardized dps, what would even be the point of picking anymore?
They would only lose fracture from Surprise Attack with this change. NB's still have access to Major Fracture long duration through Mark Target and morphs. Currently stam NB's have the best access to Major Fracture, from two class skills, one on a skill that not only does good damage but gives Major Ward and Resolve through passives. Only semi-rivaled by Wardens, DK's have access of course but on an inferior skill.
Stamblades already have the hardest rotation of any class in the game, bar none. This is a known and widely accepted fact. You're asking to remove a utility from their spammable and to go use a skill that wouldn't fit anywhere into their already overly-complicated rotation.
Honestly, PVP should just be balanced entirely separate from PVE. It's almost never PVE players asking for nerfs of other classes because none of them care. All classes do more than enough dps to clear all content. I wish my nightblade could heal for 3,000+ HP per second like sorcerer can, but you don't see me asking them to nerf sorcerers. I'm happy for them, they have their special skillset, I have mine.
It's always someone in PVP who gets ganked cause theyre probably a bad player and then comes to the forums to decry whatever class killed them and specifically target whatever skill got them in the death recap.
The only time they need to use that "utility" in PVE is for dummy tests so no it won't have any real affect. Tanks provide Major Fracture on Bosses, DK's/Wardens provide AOE Major Fracture for adds(if you even care to have it). One single target add isn't making or breaking PVE.
Making up imagined scenarios for where "nerf" threads come from doesn't validate your opinion,.
1. Having to slot another skill in place of something actually useful just to get a buff you previously had means your DPS is going to be lower.
2. People do play solo content and it's nice to have access to the utility without needing a tank to supplement you.
By your logic, no class should have access to any utility that the tank is applying because it's redundant once you're doing group content.
The worst part about this is having to come onto the forums to defend your class from being stripped down cause someone got rekt in PVP or they can't do enough dps. This doesn't just go for nightblades. Practically every class at some point has people who don't play it come onto here and bash it. Then everyone else has to defend it since it's already functioning perfectly well.
Why do you need 2 sources of major fracture, minor maim, major expedition, 3 or 4 stuns, and passive magor ward and resorlve in 1 class. It just doesn't make any since.
DKs have Major Fracture, Minor Maim, Major Expedition, multiple forms of stun and CC and snare, and Major Ward/Major Resolve for 20 seconds via Spiked Armor.
Also, calling the NB source of Major Ward/Resolve "passive" is sort of misleading. Sure, it comes from a passive skill but it requires a Shadow ability to be cast to activate it and its duration is sufficiently short compared to other sources (e.g., the DK example above, Boundless, Frost Cloak, etc.)2 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imagine thinking every class should play the same and not realizing that certain classes were designed for certain things. This “million ways to play” or “play it your way” crap is annoying and majority of the time you end up with crap tier results.5 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@John_FalstaffJohn_Falstaff wrote: »@Toc de Malsvi , no Fracture in vMA, thank you very much for that bright idea.
Too easy, I can make a video if you need one. With 10k pen you over penetrate just about everything in VMA, that amount of pen is far to easy to get just from CP and lover. But the reality is you just don't need it, if you think you need it you either don't know VMA at all or your bad sorry
Edited by Toc de Malsvi on February 22, 2019 9:08PMLegendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Toc de Malsvi , if it's too easy, then let's remove Fracture from the game entirely. Fighting power creep and everything. Also, let's not imply anything about my persona, thank you very much. We all think different things. I think game doesn't need players like yourself, you think NBs don't need Fracture, but luckily for us both, ZOS probably won't heed to either.2 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Toc de Malsvi , if it's too easy, then let's remove Fracture from the game entirely. Fighting power creep and everything. Also, let's not imply anything about my persona, thank you very much. We all think different things. I think game doesn't need players like yourself, you think NBs don't need Fracture, but luckily for us both, ZOS probably won't heed to either.
Move that goal post because you’re losing a debate.4 -
Fusharji_Seht✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Toc de Malsvi , if it's too easy, then let's remove Fracture from the game entirely. Fighting power creep and everything. Also, let's not imply anything about my persona, thank you very much. We all think different things. I think game doesn't need players like yourself, you think NBs don't need Fracture, but luckily for us both, ZOS probably won't heed to either.
No let's just remove all utilities from the game and then give every class the same exact skills & passives, but under different names. That way we wouldn't ever have to keep seeing threads like this again.3 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Haashhtaag , there is no debate here. There are just personal desires of different people (apparently ganked by various classes in PvP), for some reason appearing in PTS forum. No justification, nothing, just "I want that class to be nerfed".1 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Haashhtaag , there is no debate here. There are just personal desires of different people (apparently ganked by various classes in PvP), for some reason appearing in PTS forum. No justification, nothing, just "I want that class to be nerfed".
Have you beaten vma on a NB?2 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Toc de Malsvi , if it's too easy, then let's remove Fracture from the game entirely. Fighting power creep and everything. Also, let's not imply anything about my persona, thank you very much. We all think different things. I think game doesn't need players like yourself, you think NBs don't need Fracture, but luckily for us both, ZOS probably won't heed to either.
This has nothing to do with the stated issue of Surprise Attack adding too much. Although it really would be fine overall if Major Fracture was removed. Group dps would change slightly, some builds in PVP would change to adjust, but it would mostly attain to the same purpose of toning down the power of Surprise Attack.
Surprise Attack proccing Shadow Barrier adds a 10.5k physical resistance swing, you reduce your opponents resistance by 5280 and raise your own by 5280. It's fine as a spammable even without that bonus, it has good damage regardless and has a small conditional stun. NB's don't need Major Fracture on Surprise Attack in any way, it contributes to what makes them overloaded in 1v1.Edited by Toc de Malsvi on February 22, 2019 9:30PMLegendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..2 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Please list one buff that NBs have receive in the past two years that wasn’t immediately followed up by a nerf (ie Grim Focus recast bug getting fixed, only to now not even have the proc last for one second after you’ve killed something), Shadow Image that can be cast anywhere, but can’t be used because it’s still bugged the moment you move half a step up or down.
I can give you a list of nerfs the class has gotten. I can show you exactly where saptank got gutted and where the unique hurt-to-heal style of NB healing got cut entirely. I can show you the delayed burst being forced on Assassin’s Will along with Frags, and where the class’s staple defense of Evasion was removed from the game and given an AoE damage reduction we could get elsewhere. I can go find the patch that raised the costs of Strife, then gutted its damage and took away Vitality. I can show you where Malefic Wreath shifted into an actual nice self-heal with a health cost, then got stripped of its ability to self-target. Incap, already dodgeable, got nerfed so even in 1v1 fights DBoS is still better.
Now maybe think of all that when complaining how NB is somehow the golden child that never gets nerfed. If you can tell me some actual functional NB buffs since Morrowind, go right ahead. Lets see if it can counteract all those nerfs to stamblade, magblade, and all the healing and tanking NBs who have nothing to offer their groups anymore.5 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Haashhtaag wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@Toc de Malsvi , if it's too easy, then let's remove Fracture from the game entirely. Fighting power creep and everything. Also, let's not imply anything about my persona, thank you very much. We all think different things. I think game doesn't need players like yourself, you think NBs don't need Fracture, but luckily for us both, ZOS probably won't heed to either.
Move that goal post because you’re losing a debate.
That already happened when I pointed out that NB's still had Major Fracture without Surprise Attack.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Haashhtaag , of course. On sNB, mNB and sDK - all classes I currently play (I main sDK). I run regularly.
@Toc de Malsvi , thing is, it's purely PvP-driven change that is invasive on PvE side. Whole this shakeup concerning larger part of the game, for the sake of smaller part. And worst thing is, for all the headaches PvE will have from that nerf, it won't change anything in PvP where cancerous builds will keep running dual axes and Rending.
And no, you have no slightest point about Mark Target. It's not even a damage skill, while Noxious - AoE DoT and AoE Major Fracture, for instance. Mark Target is a waste of slot, but if you're so opposed to having two sources, then sure, Mark Target can go.3 -
Fusharji_Seht✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@Toc de Malsvi , if it's too easy, then let's remove Fracture from the game entirely. Fighting power creep and everything. Also, let's not imply anything about my persona, thank you very much. We all think different things. I think game doesn't need players like yourself, you think NBs don't need Fracture, but luckily for us both, ZOS probably won't heed to either.
Move that goal post because you’re losing a debate.
That already happened when I pointed out that NB's still had Major Fracture without Surprise Attack.
To which I told you that it's a useless skill (Mark Target) since it does no damage. It's using a slot that something else better could be taking. The other two classes with access to Major Fracture both have them on skills that damage. So either you remove the damage from those other two classes' source of Major Fracture, or you leave it be. If you're preaching what's fair, then you can't ignore that.
So please address it.Edited by Fusharji_Seht on February 22, 2019 9:44PM1 -
Kulvar✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »No one would enjoy a meta where you die in 2-4 hits from any class in the game. The problem with this game is damage is so high and a lot of people say we need more damage when in reality we need less damage so fights will actually feel like a fight.
Of course, what is true in real life doesn't necessarily make for a good gameplay, but 2-4 hits is what a real fight feel like. If you need to hit more, it means you came with the wrong weapon or you're not effective with it. And I mean a real fight, not a fake hollywood fight or a martial art tournament. A real fight do not end when the oponent is dead, but when he can't fight back. Included in gameplay, it would make blocking much more important as being concussed would mean your character will /sleep for a few minutes, giving plenty of time for an enemy to whistle and kill you.
And don't think heavy armor would be such an advantage. Warhammers were designed to stun you or break your bones through it.Coward Argonian scholar of the Ebonheart Pact0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Haashhtaag , of course. On sNB, mNB and sDK - all classes I currently play (I main sDK). I run regularly.
@Toc de Malsvi , thing is, it's purely PvP-driven change that is invasive on PvE side. Whole this shakeup concerning larger part of the game, for the sake of smaller part. And worst thing is, for all the headaches PvE will have from that nerf, it won't change anything in PvP where cancerous builds will keep running dual axes and Rending.
And no, you have no slightest point about Mark Target. It's not even a damage skill, while Noxious - AoE DoT and AoE Major Fracture, for instance. Mark Target is a waste of slot, but if you're so opposed to having two sources, then sure, Mark Target can go.
Noxious gives 10s of MajFract at 10m cone and a small 10s AOE dot, 30% snare for 3 sec on application, no healing or other buffs/debuffs.
Sub Assault gives 5s of MajFract at 20m block/rectangle and a large AOE burst, 3% damage, 4 ult every 8 seconds no healing or other debuffs/buffs.
Mark Target gives 20s at 50m of both MajFract and MajBreach single target, and you heal for 40% of your MAX health when the target dies.
Morphs give another 7 seconds to duration, or increases heal to 57% of MAX health and gives Major Berserk for 5 seconds when the target dies.
No they are not the same abilities, but they are relatively balanced.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fusharji_Seht wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@Toc de Malsvi , if it's too easy, then let's remove Fracture from the game entirely. Fighting power creep and everything. Also, let's not imply anything about my persona, thank you very much. We all think different things. I think game doesn't need players like yourself, you think NBs don't need Fracture, but luckily for us both, ZOS probably won't heed to either.
Move that goal post because you’re losing a debate.
That already happened when I pointed out that NB's still had Major Fracture without Surprise Attack.
To which I told you that it's a useless skill (Mark Target) since it does no damage. It's using a slot that something else better could be taking. The other two classes with access to Major Fracture both have them on skills that damage. So either you remove the damage from those other two classes' source of Major Fracture, or you leave it be. If you're preaching what's fair, then you can't ignore that.
So please address it.
Already addressed, see above post.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
Fusharji_Seht✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@Haashhtaag , of course. On sNB, mNB and sDK - all classes I currently play (I main sDK). I run regularly.
@Toc de Malsvi , thing is, it's purely PvP-driven change that is invasive on PvE side. Whole this shakeup concerning larger part of the game, for the sake of smaller part. And worst thing is, for all the headaches PvE will have from that nerf, it won't change anything in PvP where cancerous builds will keep running dual axes and Rending.
And no, you have no slightest point about Mark Target. It's not even a damage skill, while Noxious - AoE DoT and AoE Major Fracture, for instance. Mark Target is a waste of slot, but if you're so opposed to having two sources, then sure, Mark Target can go.
Noxious gives 10s of MajFract at 10m cone and a small 10s AOE dot, 30% snare for 3 sec on application, no healing or other buffs/debuffs.
Sub Assault gives 5s of MajFract at 20m block/rectangle and a large AOE burst, 3% damage, 4 ult every 8 seconds no healing or other debuffs/buffs.
Mark Target gives 20s at 50m of both MajFract and MajBreach single target, and you heal for 40% of your MAX health when the target dies.
Morphs give another 7 seconds to duration, or increases heal to 57% of MAX health and gives Major Berserk for 5 seconds when the target dies.
No they are not the same abilities, but they are relatively balanced.
You know you're really reaching when you have to bring up the exact ranges at which the debuff is applied to argue that removing it from one, while keeping it on two others is fair.
Your argument was that Major Fracture should be removed from Surprise Attack since nightblades have Mark Target. That is a zero damage ability with the only other benefit being "heal on death", yeah that's not really worth a damn at all when fighting players or any sort of boss with millions of health.
Versus two abilities that damage and are included in rotations.
Face it, your argument is flawed. I assume since your DK is the first one in your signature would mean that it's your main, which would explain why you suddenly rush to defend keeping Major Fracture on one of DK's useful abilities when others say you should have it removed as well in the name of fairness.Edited by Fusharji_Seht on February 22, 2019 9:57PM0
