Nightblade Still Over Performing

IronWooshu

Iskiab wrote: »

You’re jumping on her for valid points. Where was it written that templars and wardens are support characters and nightblades are not?

Each class is supposed to be able to tank, heal, and dps. There is no support class. Dps has been equalized across classes (due to players of low dps classes complaints) so support abilities need to be equalized too. If they aren’t then the classes that bring support will be better than those that don’t.

You don’t need to be an expert in the game to have common sense.

Agree, I would like to see the Nightblade get adjustments in survival abilities, the survivability I have on my Warden makes playing a Nightblade kind of unfun. It's kinda made all classes feel less superior than my Warden I have troubles justifying playing any class over my Warden.

Kulvar

@IronWooshu Or it's just that Warden is your favourite class. Other classes don't have to be the same.

MartiniDaniels

NBs are most skill-dependent class, that's ok they have slightly higher dps in experienced hands.

Arkangeloski

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Arkangeloski wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

They got a 10% speed buff.

I think the whole point of racial tweaks was just to buff open world stamblade

Lol!!!! Someone has not seen the bosmer mains crying threads about the new passives... newsflash they hate it lol every other class got WD and SD and bosmer got speed... speed does not kill damage does.

Why do you need more damage when I can already kill everyone I look at. The reason why stamblade is the king of Cyrodil is due to its mobility and its getting more love next patch.

Nah take the speed and give me pen lol flat pen not a dodgeroll proc and i already know how to play at normal speeds the only race that needs to waste a ton of stam to have access to the passives that every race got ''passively'' working for them proc-ed with an action... Wich means if you are out of stam you can't access them... what a joke my friend, listen why we don't make orcs and dark elf's dogeroll for their piece of bread too huh? Or make bretons access theirs only when blocking... Anyway even when it was 20 percent it was not a good change, and people already adapted to the speed nerfs so it is not needed, snares need to be re- evaluated and that is that. But seriously that pen would give the bosmer some pve worth and it would make sense because bosmer has never been good for pve...ever so yeah and this patch was all about balance and play how you want but not really play how you want well I don't want to dodgeroll, other races don't have their core passives locked on a certain actions or situations whatsoever , oh well free tokens.

Iskiab

Not really. The classes are pretty much equal.

Arkangeloski

Iskiab wrote: »

Not really. The classes are pretty much equal.

Sure all except woodelf

Jhalin

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Not really. The classes are pretty much equal.

Sure all except woodelf

._. .... “classes”

Arkangeloski

Jhalin wrote: »

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Not really. The classes are pretty much equal.

Sure all except woodelf

._. .... “classes”

Dang I got trolled

Ragnarock41

Jhalin wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Please list one buff that NBs have receive in the past two years that wasn’t immediately followed up by a nerf

and still after this stamblade is in meta with huge gap to rest classes especially stam 🤔

Nope, magPlar and magNB hit equal numbers in raids. Stamina NB has not received any buffs in years, yet has received their share of nerfs.

You wanna know when NB became ‘good’? When ZOS decided to neuter sustain in Morrowind. Their unneeded and unwanted changes hurt the classes without sustain the most (DK and Sorc) while the others still function well (Warden, NB, and Templar). NB got the least shafted, and none of the other classes should have been subject to those godawful changes that tank their comparative usability for endgame content. If Morrowind had never happened, you’d still be laughed at for suggesting you bring anything other than 9 magSorcs as dps into vTrials, much less a stamNB.

You forget the fact that they ''fixed'' cloak so that it ignores dots and a whole bunch of other stuff now. That alone made stamblade basically immune to a lot of things. Essentially a magicka dodge roll that also makes you untargetable, invisible and has no stacking cost.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

NBs are most skill-dependent class, that's ok they have slightly higher dps in experienced hands.

Not so much the case anymore since everyone is doing light attack rotations now and well they changed stamblade to be a lot easier with the recent patches.

John_Falstaff

@Ragnarock41 , wonder what do you mean by them making stamblade easier? I'm just trying to remember the changes (but I was skimming over them since I'm stamDK main), I can only recall the change that allowed Grim Focus stacks to be kept when the buff expires. Can't think of anything else.

As for rotation - I think stamplar rotation is way easier than stamblade's (not sure about stamden, never seen that one). And they both hit within ~1k dps of stamblade.

Ragnarock41

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Ragnarock41 , wonder what do you mean by them making stamblade easier? I'm just trying to remember the changes (but I was skimming over them since I'm stamDK main), I can only recall the change that allowed Grim Focus stacks to be kept when the buff expires. Can't think of anything else.

As for rotation - I think stamplar rotation is way easier than stamblade's (not sure about stamden, never seen that one). And they both hit within ~1k dps of stamblade.

Stamblade got easier, other classes got harder, so stamblade is not the ''hard mode'' anymore. My point being, stamblade didn't get much easier, but everything else got harder. ''Stamblade is hard mode'' was a thing people said because well other stam classes had heavy attack rotations while stamblade did la rota. Thats not the case anymore, even stamDks are doing light attack rotations. So there is not a huge skill gap anymore between stamblade and others.

John_Falstaff

@Ragnarock41 , I'll look it up (may take time for me to get there), though if the culprit is the heavy attack meta, then we're already out of it - everyone's doing light attack rotation nowadays, so everyone should've gotten buffed. I do suppose that back in pre-Summerset heavy attack meta and with unbuffed light attacks, doing light attacks was a disadvantage, but I suppose both of those taken together - buff to LAs and move to light attack meta - buffs everyone equally. Of last spectral bow changes, I again can remember only some nerfs (longer travel time and cost of the proc introduced) aside from that counter buff, but will look up since I may have skimmed over some changes.

Sustain-wise, I think templars and wardens got their buffs, so in that department, things got relatively easier. Now DKs and sorcs (though don't know much about the latter) are still behind, but again, not sure if it's sustain related - on stamDK, I can easily and indefinitely sustain light attack rotation with blue food, while on a stamblade I can only sustain with purple (I'm khajiit in both cases). It's mostly the abysmal stamina toolkit that's to blame, so I'd rather have stamsorcs and stamDKs brought up to the level of stamden/stamblade/stamplar rather than other way around, and revisiting passives and stamina morphs would be a good start.

Ragnarock41

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Ragnarock41 , I'll look it up (may take time for me to get there), though if the culprit is the heavy attack meta, then we're already out of it - everyone's doing light attack rotation nowadays, so everyone should've gotten buffed. I do suppose that back in pre-Summerset heavy attack meta and with unbuffed light attacks, doing light attacks was a disadvantage, but I suppose both of those taken together - buff to LAs and move to light attack meta - buffs everyone equally. Of last spectral bow changes, I again can remember only some nerfs (longer travel time and cost of the proc introduced) aside from that counter buff, but will look up since I may have skimmed over some changes.

Sustain-wise, I think templars and wardens got their buffs, so in that department, things got relatively easier. Now DKs and sorcs (though don't know much about the latter) are still behind, but again, not sure if it's sustain related - on stamDK, I can easily and indefinitely sustain light attack rotation with blue food, while on a stamblade I can only sustain with purple (I'm khajiit in both cases). It's mostly the abysmal stamina toolkit that's to blame, so I'd rather have stamsorcs and stamDKs brought up to the level of stamden/stamblade/stamplar rather than other way around, and revisiting passives and stamina morphs would be a good start.

I absolutely agree on that.

irswat

I know stamden can pull numbers close to stamblade, and stamsorcs pull decent numbets providing fracture. No need to nerf. They are bad tanks and healers

Vyvrhel

Christ do I hate the nerf threads. Every MMO I ever played was ultimately broken by the PVP whiners asking for a nerf. You nerf one class, the other will become "OP" and the whining continues.
Even in totally open skill system like TSW were people bitching about what skill line is OP in PVP.
Note that I suck in PVP and I was running with a zerg in Cyro just to level up the Assault line enough to get the caltrops and vigor on my stam alts.
But nerfing just sucks. You are playing a race / class game and such a game CANNOT be ever balanced, it is impossible. There will be ALWAYS a meta class and a race for every single activity the game offers.

Minalan

You really need experience fighting nightblades before you can ask for cloak nerfs.

Once you try playing a nb, or spend time actually fighting them, it's not a ridiculously OP class. This is part of 'getting good' in the game in general and you can tell who is or isn't by how they post here.

Gear up, wear Impen. Use blocking and dodge roll, incap strike isn't an automatic kill. Bring a potion to detect them and don't use it until the NB is badly hurt. When they hide, don't follow in a straight line, go where YOU would if you were running away from someone like YOU. You'd be surprised how often you find one. Use some AOE and speed to flush them out.

Ragnarock41

Minalan wrote: »

You really need experience fighting nightblades before you can ask for cloak nerfs.

Once you try playing a nb, or spend time actually fighting them, it's not a ridiculously OP class. This is part of 'getting good' in the game in general and you can tell who is or isn't by how they post here.

Gear up, wear Impen. Use blocking and dodge roll, incap strike isn't an automatic kill. Bring a potion to detect them and don't use it until the NB is badly hurt. When they hide, don't follow in a straight line, go where YOU would if you were running away from someone like YOU. You'd be surprised how often you find one. Use some AOE and speed to flush them out.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Its the nightblade's opponent who should learn to play smart, outplay and yada yada. But never the nightblade. If something breaks cloak , nerf it. aoes break cloak? nerf it. Dots break cloak? nerf it. Siege breaks cloak? Nerf that too. Nightblade master race should never spend time learning anything, right?

Let the plebs learn the pain of using dizzy swing, nightblade master race gets to use their ez pz spammable with major fracture attached, they get to have defile and %20 damage amp, meanwhile what do others get? dk gets combustion as ''dps passive'' and noxious breath, and what about stamsorcs? Implosion just got removed lol. Everyone else gets to suffer, but when it comes to nightblades, ''You need experience before you can ask for nerfs''

Yeah I get your point , I understand it perfectly. Incap strike isn't an automatic kill, but I bet you wish it was.

Ragnaroek93

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

You really need experience fighting nightblades before you can ask for cloak nerfs.

Once you try playing a nb, or spend time actually fighting them, it's not a ridiculously OP class. This is part of 'getting good' in the game in general and you can tell who is or isn't by how they post here.

Gear up, wear Impen. Use blocking and dodge roll, incap strike isn't an automatic kill. Bring a potion to detect them and don't use it until the NB is badly hurt. When they hide, don't follow in a straight line, go where YOU would if you were running away from someone like YOU. You'd be surprised how often you find one. Use some AOE and speed to flush them out.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Its the nightblade's opponent who should learn to play smart, outplay and yada yada. But never the nightblade. If something breaks cloak , nerf it. aoes break cloak? nerf it. Dots break cloak? nerf it. Siege breaks cloak? Nerf that too. Nightblade master race should never spend time learning anything, right?

Let the plebs learn the pain of using dizzy swing, nightblade master race gets to use their ez pz spammable with major fracture attached, they get to have defile and %20 damage amp, meanwhile what do others get? dk gets combustion as ''dps passive'' and noxious breath, and what about stamsorcs? Implosion just got removed lol. Everyone else gets to suffer, but when it comes to nightblades, ''You need experience before you can ask for nerfs''

Yeah I get your point , I understand it perfectly. Incap strike isn't an automatic kill, but I bet you wish it was.

Sorry to break it down to you, but stam Dk right now is just as dominant as Nb is. Would you complain about stam Dk too?

Ragnarock41

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

You really need experience fighting nightblades before you can ask for cloak nerfs.

Once you try playing a nb, or spend time actually fighting them, it's not a ridiculously OP class. This is part of 'getting good' in the game in general and you can tell who is or isn't by how they post here.

Gear up, wear Impen. Use blocking and dodge roll, incap strike isn't an automatic kill. Bring a potion to detect them and don't use it until the NB is badly hurt. When they hide, don't follow in a straight line, go where YOU would if you were running away from someone like YOU. You'd be surprised how often you find one. Use some AOE and speed to flush them out.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Its the nightblade's opponent who should learn to play smart, outplay and yada yada. But never the nightblade. If something breaks cloak , nerf it. aoes break cloak? nerf it. Dots break cloak? nerf it. Siege breaks cloak? Nerf that too. Nightblade master race should never spend time learning anything, right?

Let the plebs learn the pain of using dizzy swing, nightblade master race gets to use their ez pz spammable with major fracture attached, they get to have defile and %20 damage amp, meanwhile what do others get? dk gets combustion as ''dps passive'' and noxious breath, and what about stamsorcs? Implosion just got removed lol. Everyone else gets to suffer, but when it comes to nightblades, ''You need experience before you can ask for nerfs''

Yeah I get your point , I understand it perfectly. Incap strike isn't an automatic kill, but I bet you wish it was.

Sorry to break it down to you, but stam Dk right now is just as dominant as Nb is. Would you complain about stam Dk too?

If stamDk was as dominant as Nb was you would be reading up posts about DKs not nightblades. Either way I know you don't care for much other than dueling, but honestly I would complain if stamDK was truly as ridicilous as stamblades were, but no other class comes even remotely close, including stamdens.

Jhalin

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

You really need experience fighting nightblades before you can ask for cloak nerfs.

Once you try playing a nb, or spend time actually fighting them, it's not a ridiculously OP class. This is part of 'getting good' in the game in general and you can tell who is or isn't by how they post here.

Gear up, wear Impen. Use blocking and dodge roll, incap strike isn't an automatic kill. Bring a potion to detect them and don't use it until the NB is badly hurt. When they hide, don't follow in a straight line, go where YOU would if you were running away from someone like YOU. You'd be surprised how often you find one. Use some AOE and speed to flush them out.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Its the nightblade's opponent who should learn to play smart, outplay and yada yada. But never the nightblade. If something breaks cloak , nerf it. aoes break cloak? nerf it. Dots break cloak? nerf it. Siege breaks cloak? Nerf that too. Nightblade master race should never spend time learning anything, right?

Let the plebs learn the pain of using dizzy swing, nightblade master race gets to use their ez pz spammable with major fracture attached, they get to have defile and %20 damage amp, meanwhile what do others get? dk gets combustion as ''dps passive'' and noxious breath, and what about stamsorcs? Implosion just got removed lol. Everyone else gets to suffer, but when it comes to nightblades, ''You need experience before you can ask for nerfs''

Yeah I get your point , I understand it perfectly. Incap strike isn't an automatic kill, but I bet you wish it was.

Sorry to break it down to you, but stam Dk right now is just as dominant as Nb is. Would you complain about stam Dk too?

If stamDk was as dominant as Nb was you would be reading up posts about DKs not nightblades. Either way I know you don't care for much other than dueling, but honestly I would complain if stamDK was truly as ridicilous as stamblades were, but no other class comes even remotely close, including stamdens.

That’s just plain untrue and you know it

The void of NBs in high MMR BGs is testament to them not being OP. Stamdens aren’t OP either but they sure are dominant among the community of skilled PvPers, same with DKs. NBs are noob stompers, the bane of PvEers trying to coast through PvP without a single adjustment, but good players already know how to, and do, deal with them.

It’s plenty clear you have no intention of even trying to do anything at all to combat one, which doesn’t even require a build change to do. Every class has access to AoEs, CC, detect pots, blocking, and dodge rolling in any build. If you dodge Incap then there’s no more burst, of you use an AoE then Cloak is nothing but a short-lasting resistances buff, if you use CC and snares then there’s no way they can get out of your AoEs to get back into invisibility.

So please, explain why you’re incapable of using a detect pot or CC or AoE in your build. Is everything single target? Are you building like a paper bag? Have you somehow found a skill load out without a single snaring ability?

Iskiab

Agreed. You can typically tell how well your team will do in a BG by the classes of those who join:

70% - base from me being there
+15% - per DK
+ 10% - per magplar
-15% - per NB
- 25% - per magblade

Btw, yes. I random by myself and have never lost a BG with two DKs and a magplar. Going against a premade or not, ever. I usually spam death matches.

Minalan

The only change I would ever make on a nightblade is the forced "miss" of any ranged attack when you're under a detect pot and the NB is spamming cloak.

I can see you, right there. You're under a detect pot, why did that attack miss? Fix this already.

hakan

Minalan wrote: »

The only change I would ever make on a nightblade is the forced "miss" of any ranged attack when you're under a detect pot and the NB is spamming cloak.

I can see you, right there. You're under a detect pot, why did that attack miss? Fix this already.

That sounds like a bug tho. But im not suprised.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

You really need experience fighting nightblades before you can ask for cloak nerfs.

Once you try playing a nb, or spend time actually fighting them, it's not a ridiculously OP class. This is part of 'getting good' in the game in general and you can tell who is or isn't by how they post here.

Gear up, wear Impen. Use blocking and dodge roll, incap strike isn't an automatic kill. Bring a potion to detect them and don't use it until the NB is badly hurt. When they hide, don't follow in a straight line, go where YOU would if you were running away from someone like YOU. You'd be surprised how often you find one. Use some AOE and speed to flush them out.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Its the nightblade's opponent who should learn to play smart, outplay and yada yada. But never the nightblade. If something breaks cloak , nerf it. aoes break cloak? nerf it. Dots break cloak? nerf it. Siege breaks cloak? Nerf that too. Nightblade master race should never spend time learning anything, right?

Let the plebs learn the pain of using dizzy swing, nightblade master race gets to use their ez pz spammable with major fracture attached, they get to have defile and %20 damage amp, meanwhile what do others get? dk gets combustion as ''dps passive'' and noxious breath, and what about stamsorcs? Implosion just got removed lol. Everyone else gets to suffer, but when it comes to nightblades, ''You need experience before you can ask for nerfs''

Yeah I get your point , I understand it perfectly. Incap strike isn't an automatic kill, but I bet you wish it was.

dots or siege breaking cloak was a bug too. so according to you, those bugs shouldnt been fixed.

show me where did nightblade touch you?

Ragnaroek93

Minalan wrote: »

You really need experience fighting nightblades before you can ask for cloak nerfs.

Once you try playing a nb, or spend time actually fighting them, it's not a ridiculously OP class. This is part of 'getting good' in the game in general and you can tell who is or isn't by how they post here.

Gear up, wear Impen. Use blocking and dodge roll, incap strike isn't an automatic kill. Bring a potion to detect them and don't use it until the NB is badly hurt. When they hide, don't follow in a straight line, go where YOU would if you were running away from someone like YOU. You'd be surprised how often you find one. Use some AOE and speed to flush them out.

Can't believe that @Minalan is defending Nbs

Minalan

hakan wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The only change I would ever make on a nightblade is the forced "miss" of any ranged attack when you're under a detect pot and the NB is spamming cloak.

I can see you, right there. You're under a detect pot, why did that attack miss? Fix this already.

That sounds like a bug tho. But im not suprised.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

You really need experience fighting nightblades before you can ask for cloak nerfs.

Once you try playing a nb, or spend time actually fighting them, it's not a ridiculously OP class. This is part of 'getting good' in the game in general and you can tell who is or isn't by how they post here.

Gear up, wear Impen. Use blocking and dodge roll, incap strike isn't an automatic kill. Bring a potion to detect them and don't use it until the NB is badly hurt. When they hide, don't follow in a straight line, go where YOU would if you were running away from someone like YOU. You'd be surprised how often you find one. Use some AOE and speed to flush them out.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Its the nightblade's opponent who should learn to play smart, outplay and yada yada. But never the nightblade. If something breaks cloak , nerf it. aoes break cloak? nerf it. Dots break cloak? nerf it. Siege breaks cloak? Nerf that too. Nightblade master race should never spend time learning anything, right?

Let the plebs learn the pain of using dizzy swing, nightblade master race gets to use their ez pz spammable with major fracture attached, they get to have defile and %20 damage amp, meanwhile what do others get? dk gets combustion as ''dps passive'' and noxious breath, and what about stamsorcs? Implosion just got removed lol. Everyone else gets to suffer, but when it comes to nightblades, ''You need experience before you can ask for nerfs''

Yeah I get your point , I understand it perfectly. Incap strike isn't an automatic kill, but I bet you wish it was.

dots or siege breaking cloak was a bug too. so according to you, those bugs shouldnt been fixed.

show me where did nightblade touch you?

It's a broken mechanic, cloak *has* to force a miss on incoming projectiles, or you'll take a hit and get pulled out of cloak a second after actually going in.

It has to be specifically coded to NOT do this if the nightblade is under a detect pot or radiant mage light.

You call it a bug, I call it a design oversight.

Minalan

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

You really need experience fighting nightblades before you can ask for cloak nerfs.

Once you try playing a nb, or spend time actually fighting them, it's not a ridiculously OP class. This is part of 'getting good' in the game in general and you can tell who is or isn't by how they post here.

Gear up, wear Impen. Use blocking and dodge roll, incap strike isn't an automatic kill. Bring a potion to detect them and don't use it until the NB is badly hurt. When they hide, don't follow in a straight line, go where YOU would if you were running away from someone like YOU. You'd be surprised how often you find one. Use some AOE and speed to flush them out.

Can't believe that @Minalan is defending Nbs

There have been a LOT of changes since the clockwork patch. We are not playing the same game anymore.

First off, ZOS finally fixed the bug where nightblades could crit heal themselves to full every few seconds. Shadowy disguise caused your next strike to hit, but healing wouldn't consume the auto crit, so every HOT tick crit. On top of that, crit damage used to apply to healing. That was broken and ridiculous, good night blades were unkillable.

I argued with the forum blades who all claimed that they never used shadowy disguise ever, some even said that they didn't slot vigor. Yet every single one of them you met in Cyro would crutch that bug like they had two broken legs.

They also increased the cost on incap strike, to where the ultimate is competitive with dawnbreaker (which, even I use, it's good). You can't really say it's over the top anymore, since half of them are using dbos.

Is nightblade easier to play? Yes, at least stamina is, it's a beautifully designed class where the passives all sort of work together. That doesn't mean it's still overpowered or needs a nerf. It just has a very low skill floor to succeed or at least escape.

hakan

Minalan wrote: »

hakan wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The only change I would ever make on a nightblade is the forced "miss" of any ranged attack when you're under a detect pot and the NB is spamming cloak.

I can see you, right there. You're under a detect pot, why did that attack miss? Fix this already.

That sounds like a bug tho. But im not suprised.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

You really need experience fighting nightblades before you can ask for cloak nerfs.

Once you try playing a nb, or spend time actually fighting them, it's not a ridiculously OP class. This is part of 'getting good' in the game in general and you can tell who is or isn't by how they post here.

Gear up, wear Impen. Use blocking and dodge roll, incap strike isn't an automatic kill. Bring a potion to detect them and don't use it until the NB is badly hurt. When they hide, don't follow in a straight line, go where YOU would if you were running away from someone like YOU. You'd be surprised how often you find one. Use some AOE and speed to flush them out.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Its the nightblade's opponent who should learn to play smart, outplay and yada yada. But never the nightblade. If something breaks cloak , nerf it. aoes break cloak? nerf it. Dots break cloak? nerf it. Siege breaks cloak? Nerf that too. Nightblade master race should never spend time learning anything, right?

Let the plebs learn the pain of using dizzy swing, nightblade master race gets to use their ez pz spammable with major fracture attached, they get to have defile and %20 damage amp, meanwhile what do others get? dk gets combustion as ''dps passive'' and noxious breath, and what about stamsorcs? Implosion just got removed lol. Everyone else gets to suffer, but when it comes to nightblades, ''You need experience before you can ask for nerfs''

Yeah I get your point , I understand it perfectly. Incap strike isn't an automatic kill, but I bet you wish it was.

dots or siege breaking cloak was a bug too. so according to you, those bugs shouldnt been fixed.

show me where did nightblade touch you?

It's a broken mechanic, cloak *has* to force a miss on incoming projectiles, or you'll take a hit and get pulled out of cloak a second after actually going in.

It has to be specifically coded to NOT do this if the nightblade is under a detect pot or radiant mage light.

You call it a bug, I call it a design oversight.

Afaik cloak never ignored the dots at first but had purge-ish ability. But then dots started to break cloak, and they couldnt code dots to deal damage but not uncloak the target. So they went with dot-ignoring-cloak thing and took away the purge.

No reason to play nb if there isnt any invis. For playing it like a brawler, DragonKnight does it better and looks better, theme and gameplaywise.

Only if Nightblades dodging, leeching, saptank wasnt nerfed to oblivion and and somewhat viable in pvp.

Kulvar

I would be okay with removing cloak from the game, if there was light armor stealth sets.

Letho2469

John_Falstaff wrote: »

seventyfive wrote: »

I would just like to say that I as well agree about nightblades, more specifically stamblades, are overperforming in multiple areas of the game.

Facts please. For PvE, parses are on the first page of this thread, stamplars and stamdens are quite on par with stamblades this patch damage-wise.

NBs are on par on dummies. Yet in trial environments they can push their dps a lot easier during the execute phase. On the 6 mio. dummy a self buffed NB goes up from 48k to 57,5k - dps would probably even climb up more if the execute phase lasted longer. That is ridiculous as it's one button smashing most of the time. Hence NB's execute must be nerfed in PvE and partially shifted towards the "regular" rotation to make this point valid.

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Christ do I hate the nerf threads. Every MMO I ever played was ultimately broken by the PVP whiners asking for a nerf. You nerf one class, the other will become "OP" and the whining continues.
Even in totally open skill system like TSW were people bitching about what skill line is OP in PVP.
Note that I suck in PVP and I was running with a zerg in Cyro just to level up the Assault line enough to get the caltrops and vigor on my stam alts.
But nerfing just sucks. You are playing a race / class game and such a game CANNOT be ever balanced, it is impossible. There will be ALWAYS a meta class and a race for every single activity the game offers.

That is a good point for separating numbers in PvE and PvP.

Kulvar wrote: »

Letho2469 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

[...]
For this reason alone is why things get nerfed in pve because pvp is busted. You don't need all those perks in pve to cause debuffs because healers/tanks do that. So your parse numbers would go down on dummy but they would go right back up in group play which is what pve is.

This thread is useless. ESO will NEVER be balanced as long as they do not separate the numbers, because the way it is currently implemented makes balancing IMPOSSIBLE. Deal with it.

No need to split numbers, because PvE and PvP need from you different things. That's why you don't have the same build for both.

That totally missed the point. Buff or nerf sth. in pvp and the balancing in PvE can be destroyed.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

NBs are most skill-dependent class, that's ok they have slightly higher dps in experienced hands.

Until we are in the execute phase. Then NB is suddenly the easiest class.

John_Falstaff

@Letho2469 , those are raid-buffed parses on the first page. So the comparisons are done using raid-buffed execute phases too, and they are even. And don't forget that longer execute phase is preceded by longer pre-execute too during which NBs will be doing proportionally less damage. Any other arguments?