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Nightblade Still Over Performing

universal_wrath
universal_wrath
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I'm not sure why nightblade class in general has not recieved a proper nerft. I play for pvp and pve, and I can say that this class does not compare to other classes in any way ahape or form, no matter what race you choose to play with. In PVP, I killed numerous people just by crit incap ulti, and manage to kill lots of 50k+ hp player in 4-5hits, with great sustain and surviavbility. Almost never run out of magicka/ stamina for both pvp & pve, and when about to die, just cloak ouy my way in pvp. Alway has problems sustaining on both my dragonknight and sorcerer. Currently when I play BG, 50% of the players are NB, 50% other classes. It's simply not right to equip a class with high dmg abilities/buffs/debuff/crowd control, for such a low cost. Suprise attack is spamble and high dmg and still gives major fracture. Veild blade make you moove 25% faster in cloak to run away, cheap minor beserk with high dmg bonus and either snare or minor endurance. Stun from fear and minor maim, also minor mai from ghosts, cheap major facture and breach for ganking from mark cheap ulti for stun/ulti regen/major defiler. Or a bit costy ulti for massive heal and major vitality/ high dmg and stun. Also, there is the unreasonable 10% crit dmg, like it was not doing high dmg already. This class should be reworked for nerfs big time. If I missed something and made a mistake, please let me know
  • Qbiken
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    You might want to change the title to "stamblade" instead of bringing in magblades into this nerfthread.
  • Morgul667
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    StamBlade are strong but MagBlade do not feel like they are strong at the moment
  • susmitds
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    NB is great open world and equally bad in BG. Balanced enough imo.
  • John_Falstaff
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    I'd rather think that it's the other classes that are underperforming. Mostly speaking of PvE part though.
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    It's on ZOS' radar.
    Stamblades are OP AF, way too much damage. Magblades are alright, not OP. Strong in duels, but I take them over Stamblades any day.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    For every 100 stamblades I kill there is this 1 or 2 that seems to be unkilable ganker. IDK, maybe... just maybe I keep running into a good player ? No, it can't be. There are no good players in eso pvp. Only cheaters and exploiters... :trollface:
    #StrongSarcasm ;)
  • SoLooney
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    Can we not just nerf nightblades cause they're a powerful class?

    Maybe other classes just need a buff.

    Dont understand the logic of nerfing one thing instead of buffing the others

  • Lucky28
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    You might want to change the title to "stamblade" instead of bringing in magblades into this nerfthread.

    judging by ZOS' track record. they will see this thread, nerf magblade and buff stamblade XD
    Edited by Lucky28 on February 22, 2019 8:11AM
    Invictus
  • Kulvar
    Kulvar
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    SoLooney wrote: »
    Can we not just nerf nightblades cause they're a powerful class?

    Maybe other classes just need a buff.

    Dont understand the logic of nerfing one thing instead of buffing the others

    Not taking position on the "is nightblade OP" topic.
    It's easier to buff/nerf 1 thing instead of buff/nerf every other thing.
    Coward Argonian scholar of the Ebonheart Pact
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    susmitds wrote: »
    NB is great open world and equally bad in BG. Balanced enough imo.

    I don't think that is what most understand as balanced.
  • SoLooney
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    Kulvar wrote: »
    SoLooney wrote: »
    Can we not just nerf nightblades cause they're a powerful class?

    Maybe other classes just need a buff.

    Dont understand the logic of nerfing one thing instead of buffing the others

    Not taking position on the "is nightblade OP" topic.
    It's easier to buff/nerf 1 thing instead of buff/nerf every other thing.

    If you noticed zos track record. Its nerf nerf nerf

    Nightblades took a sustain nerf for pve and pvp

    I'll admit, maybe some skills need some rework but it's so lazy nerfing a class completely and not working on other classes. Till everything gets nerfed to the ground, not fun
  • Gnozo
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    Stamblades are crazy OP in pvp.

    Running just 2 sustain sets: Bone Pirate + Shackle

    More then 2.4k stam recovery and easy 4k weapon damage.

    Surprise attack gets a 13k tooltip with this setup and also applies major fracture increasing the damage even more.

    Incap with a stun at 120 ult, major defile and another damage boost.

    Assassin's Will has a higher tooltip then any instant damage ultimate in the game and comes with 2 really strong buffs on top of it (minor endurance, minor beserk? These 8 % more damage)

    And when this is not enough, they also have cloak wich is one of the best defensive and offensive skills in the game wich also passively grants major armor buffs and opens a skill slot for another skill.

    Compared to a Stamsorc or StamDK running ransack as their spammable its a joke. Ransack tooltip will be like 8k. Really great Balance.
  • darkblue5
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    In PVE Nightblades need a nerf. Sure the rotation is hard but the dps is still too high. (The more intricate rotation is its own reward for some people.) That said for years nightblade had a tougher rotation and pretty low damage and besides pvp you rarely saw them. Nerfed into a good utility spot (eg stamplar) would be a fine result. My currently mained PVE nightblades would see less play but they've had mag sorc level dominance recently XD

    In PVP for years they were soundly, soundly, soundly the best spec, rarely eclipsed by the likes of stamplars and Mag DKs. Now, honestly they are in a very strange place in PVP. The Devs have recognized the miserable play pattern of Cloak as it is. Cloak right now is overpowered to play against without counters and nigh useless to use against counters.
    At the same time Cloak is already pretty useless in the current tanky ball group meta. There are reasons few nightblades are high MMR in battlegrounds, and why so few ball groups Need a nightblade to function. Nightblades are still the best at a form of play that is declining which is solo play. Except Magblades who are really in a pretty iffy spot with ever more of their attack and defense nerfed between PVE based Strife nerf, defile Death Stroke nerf,and the Grim Focus arrow nerf....

    Essentially in PVP nightblades are already facing a hostile AOE meta, and while Cloak needs a nerf it rather needs it so that nightblade won't be as poorly situated and increasingly incentivized to only fight the softest targets who generally are the fresh faced new-to-PVP people that PVP needs to attract and keep.

    Honestly though once you're wearing impen you're much more likely to be killed by a Rapids spamming, Negate spamming, Time stop spamming, unkillable healbot with proxy det spamming, Dawnbreaker of smiting spamming, Eye of the Storm spamming, and Spin to Winning ball group. Been/am a part of several and it is as busted as ganking or bombing USED to feel.

    Or even more likely be repeatedly disconnected by a 60+ person zerg/guild/faction for 20 minutes only to find out when you
    finally are able to log back on that your side lost two keeps in that time.
  • ankeor
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    Yeah. There is one good class left. Let's ruin it rather than making other classes better.

    I love how people complain how ZOS handle the balance yet their balance suggestions are far worse than ZOS's.
  • Sleep724
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    Gnozo wrote: »
    Stamblades are crazy OP in pvp.

    Running just 2 sustain sets: Bone Pirate + Shackle

    More then 2.4k stam recovery and easy 4k weapon damage.

    Surprise attack gets a 13k tooltip with this setup and also applies major fracture increasing the damage even more.

    Incap with a stun at 120 ult, major defile and another damage boost.

    Assassin's Will has a higher tooltip then any instant damage ultimate in the game and comes with 2 really strong buffs on top of it (minor endurance, minor beserk? These 8 % more damage)

    And when this is not enough, they also have cloak wich is one of the best defensive and offensive skills in the game wich also passively grants major armor buffs and opens a skill slot for another skill.

    Compared to a Stamsorc or StamDK running ransack as their spammable its a joke. Ransack tooltip will be like 8k. Really great Balance.

    My only regret is that I only have 1 agree to give. Very well said.
  • chris211
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    here is my 2 cents something needs to be done to cloak with out gutting the class and incap either needs the extra damage removed or the major defile removed im good with either
  • Seraphayel
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    Can we maybe define the three major points why (Stamina) Nightblades are overperforming? Something like:

    1. Cheap skills / very sustainable

    2. High damage on top of a lot of debuffs/buffs

    3. Cloak
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • Nifty2g
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    Morgul667 wrote: »
    StamBlade are strong but MagBlade do not feel like they are strong at the moment
    Nightblades are strongest mag and stam class how do they not feel strong, you ok?
    #MOREORBS
  • Rikumaru
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    Why are people still wanting more incap nerfs? Do you want everyone in Cyrodill to be using DBoS? As for the overall damage of the class (from SA and Incap), isn't that the identity of the class? Other than cloak what utility does stamblade have to offer (pretty much the reason why it sucks in small scale groups compared to other classes)? There wouldn't be any reason to run it.

    What I would like to happen, is cloak be heavily nerfed and other classes be buffed up (including mag nb). Every class should have something special to offer or have something which it does the best out of all the classes.
    Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.
  • ccfeeling
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0-QTbvzCPI&t=2s

    Vs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQK-Y2_BSIM&t=62s

    Vs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42f40QCN1JU&t=46s

    PVE perspective

    Nerf NB ? NB DPS is still the TOP DOG , but have you try NB healer and NB tank ? Basically they are dead in PVE end game area.

    I think you are PVP focus , please think deeply before you request a class nerf .
  • John_Falstaff
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    @darkblue5 , not sure if it's position I share. Nobody would care about more complex rotation if high damage wasn't coming as the reward. Not to mention that it'll downright kill nightblades on consoles whether they don't have Grim Focus Counter. I'd first see how many nightblades are actually capable of pulling ahead of other classes, give that equal raid buffs are provided. Those who can't do three bow procs for one Focus cast probably will drop below most others, and nerf will make it pointless to get better on nightblade when they can roll any other class and get the same result.

    I'd much rather buff other classes, and not in direct way, but providing them with more engaging techniques of reaching same level, much like NBs have. I'd love to be given an option of more complex rotation on stamDK as a price for performance and sustain comparable with stamblades. I don't demand to be given goodies for free when other class has to pay for them. I'm fine with paying, just give me the option.
  • Thanatos_inside
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    lmao zos nerfing nb every patch. Just stop. Its fine atm.
  • Edziu
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    lmao zos nerfing nb every patch. Just stop. Its fine atm.

    nerfed every patch I see every class but not stamblade
    Edited by Edziu on February 22, 2019 10:39AM
  • John_Falstaff
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    @Edziu , yes and no; just recently both stamblades and magblades got a sustain hit when bow proc got a cost of half the base skill (so effectively Grim Focus cast is now more than twice as expensive). Other nerfs were mostly for magblades.
    Edited by John_Falstaff on February 22, 2019 10:45AM
  • Edziu
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    @Edziu , yes and no; just recently both stamblades and magblades got a sustain hit when bow proc got a cost of half the base skill (so effectively Grim Focus cast is now more than twice as expensive). Other nerfs were mostly for magblades.

    and still stamblades felt almost no changer and are still top dog of everything with dps while magblade felt this nerf much more and and this is more significant effect on maglbade than stamblade
  • Seraphayel
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    @Edziu , yes and no; just recently both stamblades and magblades got a sustain hit when bow proc got a cost of half the base skill (so effectively Grim Focus cast is now more than twice as expensive). Other nerfs were mostly for magblades.

    This was done to DK's Whip as well so I don't really see this as a class specific nerf, ZOS just brought proc skills in line.
    Edited by Seraphayel on February 22, 2019 10:53AM
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • Edziu
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    and tbh Im really sick of this tamblade meta now for how much? over year? its time to finally change this, no any stamina character can be on par with stablde, while every other stamina class is similiar (maybe just warden a bit better as I heared) then we have stamblde with huge gap from every other class here

    whenewher I see an thread about stmina dps here to buff it, change something etc because it lack with dps in compare to amgice then everyone jsut shout YOU HAVE STAMBLADE! STAMLADE OP META, YOU DONT NEED BUFFS, YOU HAVE STAMBLADE!, this is why we cant have any good changes to stamina dps in overall because we have stmablde in meta for to long and when we say "stamina dps" then everyone see only "stamblade"!

    why this community is that blind?!
  • Itzmichi
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Can we maybe define the three major points why (Stamina) Nightblades are overperforming? Something like:

    1. Cheap skills / very sustainable

    2. High damage on top of a lot of debuffs/buffs

    3. Cloak

    Please specify it cloak is utterly useless in PvE and only used in PvP.
    Here, have a chill pill 💊!
  • Ragnaroek93
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    Gnozo wrote: »
    Stamblades are crazy OP in pvp.

    Running just 2 sustain sets: Bone Pirate + Shackle

    More then 2.4k stam recovery and easy 4k weapon damage.

    Surprise attack gets a 13k tooltip with this setup and also applies major fracture increasing the damage even more.

    Incap with a stun at 120 ult, major defile and another damage boost.

    Assassin's Will has a higher tooltip then any instant damage ultimate in the game and comes with 2 really strong buffs on top of it (minor endurance, minor beserk? These 8 % more damage)

    And when this is not enough, they also have cloak wich is one of the best defensive and offensive skills in the game wich also passively grants major armor buffs and opens a skill slot for another skill.

    Compared to a Stamsorc or StamDK running ransack as their spammable its a joke. Ransack tooltip will be like 8k. Really great Balance.

    5k7bz1mslnxj.png
    Nerf Nb.
    Edited by Ragnaroek93 on February 22, 2019 10:58AM
    I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.
  • John_Falstaff
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    @Seraphayel , doesn't make it less of a nerf, now doesn't it. Just two classes were nerfed, that's all. The question was about whether stamblades were getting any nerfs or not - well, they were.

    @Edziu , hard to say, most sNBs I see run regen food now outside of trials. Non-redguards anyway, while on stamDK I have easiest time ever sustaining blue food even without support. Magblades definitely did feel the sustain hit too, but it's not how they were taken down a notch, it's the off healing nerf that affected them most.
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