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What's considered good DPS?

  • Elijah_Crow
    Elijah_Crow
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    2. As you move from 20k towards 30k you are reaching a dps level that nobody can just intuitively attain. That level of Dps requires research to understand what combinations of sets can do it, what spell bar set ups are required, and specific rotations of casting spells, and then you practicing it for hours on a dummy. Nobody does what you did and hits 30k dps. You can not just play the game and one day have 30k+ dps. You will need help to do that.

    @ Morgha_Kul
    Couldn’t agree more with the above statement. Along similar lines, and regardless of whether you are aiming for 10k or 50k, I had made a comment on another thread that starts to get at basic DPS strategy, that may be helpful for improving DPS gameplay in general.


    I agree with both these gentlemen on this point. I would also add that the biggest reason most DPS don’t try to learn more, is that they think they do more damage than they actually do.

    I was talking to a friend about DPS and I just mentioned that when doing Vet Dungeons as long as we were all doing at least 20K we should be fine. (I parse at 32k) He had no idea how how much he was actually doing and went to a dummy. He found out that he was only doing 10k DPS.

    After a little work and tweaks he was up to 16K with a really sloppy rotation. With a little muscle memory he will be at 20k.

    So, if you’re a DPS player and want to see all the Vet Dungeon content or beyond and have never parsed on a 6 mil dummy, do yourself (and your friends) a favor and go see how much damage you really do. Sticking your head in the sand and just saying “I do fine in Dungeons” isn’t helping anyone. At least know what you are and are not capable of.
    Edited by Elijah_Crow on February 1, 2019 6:29PM
  • Madrajin
    Madrajin

    2. As you move from 20k towards 30k you are reaching a dps level that nobody can just intuitively attain. That level of Dps requires research to understand what combinations of sets can do it, what spell bar set ups are required, and specific rotations of casting spells, and then you practicing it for hours on a dummy. Nobody does what you did and hits 30k dps. You can not just play the game and one day have 30k+ dps. You will need help to do that.

    @ Morgha_Kul
    Couldn’t agree more with the above statement. Along similar lines, and regardless of whether you are aiming for 10k or 50k, I had made a comment on another thread that starts to get at basic DPS strategy, that may be helpful for improving DPS gameplay in general.


    I seem to recall the whole weaving thing originally being considered a bug and was a result of the way that ESO doesn't have a global cool down, instead of fixing it Zenimax decided to embraced it and call it a feature. The problem with it is exactly what BejaProphet said. The whole thing is compounded on consoles because there are no add-ons that can help you analyse your DPS. For many years we didn't even have target dummies. Objective assessments of DPS were practically impossible. This is not good game design.

    I also have a history of RSI and I find it really hard to keep up any sort of rotation for extended periods, thankfully most fights are really short. Dungeons I can manage but trials can cause my hands to play up by the end.

    The other problem I have with the current state of things is how really high DPS is only possible using largely cookie-cutter builds. This seems crazy to me in a game that was designed to give players massive freedom in how they build their characters.

    Currently I'm playing a hybrid magicka sorcerer tank who is equipped to do as much AoE damage as possible while still being able to tank. The idea being that there is no AoE taunt but if the DPS are focusing on specific targets and taking them down one by one then even a little AoE damage by me should be enough to take agro from everything else. Also adding about 10k of pure AoE DPS to the group damage output doesn't hurt either. It works well for all easy and medium difficulty vet dungeons (as categorised by the Undaunted quest givers), and I'm working my way through the hard ones and tweaking things so make sure it still works.

    This sort of thing isn't possible in any other other MMOs I've played but it seems to be frowned upon by elitist players.
  • CompM4s
    CompM4s
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    The most annoying person in group is the guy who constantly mentions his cherry picked 50k solo parse non buffed super skills.
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    Madrajin wrote: »

    2. As you move from 20k towards 30k you are reaching a dps level that nobody can just intuitively attain. That level of Dps requires research to understand what combinations of sets can do it, what spell bar set ups are required, and specific rotations of casting spells, and then you practicing it for hours on a dummy. Nobody does what you did and hits 30k dps. You can not just play the game and one day have 30k+ dps. You will need help to do that.

    @ Morgha_Kul
    Couldn’t agree more with the above statement. Along similar lines, and regardless of whether you are aiming for 10k or 50k, I had made a comment on another thread that starts to get at basic DPS strategy, that may be helpful for improving DPS gameplay in general.


    I seem to recall the whole weaving thing originally being considered a bug and was a result of the way that ESO doesn't have a global cool down, instead of fixing it Zenimax decided to embraced it and call it a feature. The problem with it is exactly what BejaProphet said. The whole thing is compounded on consoles because there are no add-ons that can help you analyse your DPS. For many years we didn't even have target dummies. Objective assessments of DPS were practically impossible. This is not good game design.

    You have recalled wrong. ESO has and has always had a GCD. Attack weaving has a been a fundamental element to this games combat system from day one of launch. As far as animation canceling bimeing an unintended bug that was embraced is also innacurate and is a false claim exacerbated on this forum and in game.

  • Khivas_Carrick
    Khivas_Carrick
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    CompM4s wrote: »
    The most annoying person in group is the guy who constantly mentions his cherry picked 50k solo parse non buffed super skills.

    You ain't neva lie lol
    Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!
  • Khivas_Carrick
    Khivas_Carrick
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    btw, one thing to keep in mind about "good dps" is also performing non-dps related duties, like rezzing healers when they die 4 times in a single fight.

    Also, sorry to the poor sods that aren't templar dps that stay on the boss while I run off to res said healer since I res faster than anyone else due to Templar class passives and carry the group lol
    Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!
  • Morgha_Kul
    Morgha_Kul
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    An experience tonight that I thought I'd mention, it's relevant to something someone said earlier in the thread.

    Tonight, I took Morgha Kul into the Forgotten Wastes... and found myself with nothing to do. There was someone running around gathering up all the enemies everywhere and obliterating them all in the blink of an eye.

    I mentioned before how content is trivial for people at the higher end of the dps scale. Normally, that doesn't really affect my gameplay at the lower end of the scale. THIS is an example of how it does so. I just logged off, because there wasn't anything for me to do.

    It's just my opinion, but I feel that it should not be possible for anyone to reach levels of dps like this. I feel like they would enjoy the content more if it wasn't trivial, and it would be easier for the devs to make content that is more accessible to everyone. Again, that's just my opinion, but it's coming from decades of experience with this sort of thing.
    Exploring Tamriel since 1994.
  • ArenGesus
    ArenGesus
    Soul Shriven
    Madrajin wrote: »

    The other problem I have with the current state of things is how really high DPS is only possible using largely cookie-cutter builds. This seems crazy to me in a game that was designed to give players massive freedom in how they build their characters.

    This seems to be a common complaint, but it's only natural, isn't it? I mean, you can get high DPS on non-standard builds, however the current definition of "high" DPS is set by the optimal combinations of gear/rotation for a given class. "High" is subjective until a benchmark is set. The benchmark at the moment is defined by current meta because it's optimal.

    If the game were made fresh with all new gear/skills/classes/races, players would immediately set out to find what combos work optimally together and determine which among them work the absolute best. Now there is a new benchmark against which all others are judged. Right now, 30k dps is probably considered reasonably high (not top tier, but still subjectively "high"). But as soon as somebody figures out how to reliably push the 55k mark generally considered to be top tier range to a point where they get an average of 75k - suddenly 50 is the new 30. Of course others will duplicate that setup and attempt to achieve the same. Most won't because they aren't the same level of player - instead of 75, they'll get 50. That's the new normal.

    There are a lot of unused skills and sets available in the game and I think the suggestion is that if some were reworked so that you had several different ways to achieve 50k dps, there would be more diversity. I just don't think it's true though. I think some really talented player would look at all of the options and determine among them which is the actual best possible combination of abilities and gear. And that's what everybody who chases meta will want, even though they could have diversity along with a 1% to 5% DPS loss.

    I mean really, if you were to slot something other than bow on your dw stam build, your dps would surely be impacted in a very meaningful way. But there are other skills to be used in place of hail. Not as good by a fair margin, true - but they do exist. I haven't tried this, so am speculating, but if my 40k dps sDK dropped bow in favor of something else, would I really lose so much DPS that I wouldn't be able to run trials anymore? Not so sure about that. I would definitely no longer be optimal, but that's not the same thing as not viable. I'm guessing I'd still be over 30k, which will get you through an awful lot of content. And at 30k, it would still be considered a "high" dps build, depending on who you ask.

    Looking at Liko's 60k+ sDK parse using a gold vMA bow (https://imgur.com/Rm0U13I), it looks like roughly 17% of his damage comes from a combination of hail and poison injection. I might have that wrong a little because as a console player am unfamiliar with combat metrics - but that's what it looks like to me. Applying that math to a 40k parse puts you at over 30k dps while dropping the bow entirely and not even replacing it with other skills. Maybe a two-handed swipe here and there will get you back a couple of percentages. In the grand scheme of things, no big deal. Probably still hitting 35k or more in the end. Somebody better at this type of analysis will surely correct me if I'm wrong, but the point is that it's not totally the end of the world, just no longer the very best.

    I mean, I'm not going to do it. In fact the opposite - currently I'm farming vMA for what is turning out to be, for me, an exceptionally elusive bow. I want everything to die when I just give it a funny look. I'm just saying, I don't think it's fair to say that you have to run the cookie-cutter to get "high" dps. You do to get the highest possible dps. Big difference. I think the opportunity for build diversity is there, it's just that nobody wants it.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    It is impossible to give anything but opinion as an answer to your question. But here goes...

    I think it is somewhere between 10-15k before you really are actually a damage dealer role. This is where you start doing an amount of damage that a healer or tank won’t also do.

    At 20k dps I could probably take you through nearly any content in the game, but that’s not “good.”

    As you progress from 20k to 30k, you are moving from what somebody can intuitively develop to something you have had to do serious work on. And you will be fantastic in groups and very welcome. When I swap my tank with 59 attribute points into health, into my dps gear, I can do 29.5k dps. ( but I had to research and work hard to learn to do that, it doesn’t just happen.)

    As you move from 30k to closer to 40k you are entering into the pinnacle area of a respectable veteran trials parse.

    As you go from 40k closer to 50k you are probably the right class, a perfect build, and at least a bit of a rare talent all combined.

    That's an excellent explanation! I think DPS just increased by like 1k or more on pts though. Correct?

    I just hit 38k on a meme build with 3 million dummy.
    34k on 6 million

    In case you're wondering i went a frost magden.

    Used iceheart instead of zaan's. 2 ice staves instead of flame. Northern Storm- Ice comet. And Elemental weapon instead of birb. *** it looked cool. But i think could've hit 5-10k higher if i did meta with bear.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on February 7, 2019 9:40PM
    Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/AENgyPp

    Let's make frost better for everyone!
  • InvictusApollo
    InvictusApollo
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    3k dps... I think my non-combat pet is doing more.
  • p00tx
    p00tx
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    ArenGesus wrote: »
    Madrajin wrote: »

    The other problem I have with the current state of things is how really high DPS is only possible using largely cookie-cutter builds. This seems crazy to me in a game that was designed to give players massive freedom in how they build their characters.

    This seems to be a common complaint, but it's only natural, isn't it? I mean, you can get high DPS on non-standard builds, however the current definition of "high" DPS is set by the optimal combinations of gear/rotation for a given class. "High" is subjective until a benchmark is set. The benchmark at the moment is defined by current meta because it's optimal.

    If the game were made fresh with all new gear/skills/classes/races, players would immediately set out to find what combos work optimally together and determine which among them work the absolute best. Now there is a new benchmark against which all others are judged. Right now, 30k dps is probably considered reasonably high (not top tier, but still subjectively "high"). But as soon as somebody figures out how to reliably push the 55k mark generally considered to be top tier range to a point where they get an average of 75k - suddenly 50 is the new 30. Of course others will duplicate that setup and attempt to achieve the same. Most won't because they aren't the same level of player - instead of 75, they'll get 50. That's the new normal.

    There are a lot of unused skills and sets available in the game and I think the suggestion is that if some were reworked so that you had several different ways to achieve 50k dps, there would be more diversity. I just don't think it's true though. I think some really talented player would look at all of the options and determine among them which is the actual best possible combination of abilities and gear. And that's what everybody who chases meta will want, even though they could have diversity along with a 1% to 5% DPS loss.

    I mean really, if you were to slot something other than bow on your dw stam build, your dps would surely be impacted in a very meaningful way. But there are other skills to be used in place of hail. Not as good by a fair margin, true - but they do exist. I haven't tried this, so am speculating, but if my 40k dps sDK dropped bow in favor of something else, would I really lose so much DPS that I wouldn't be able to run trials anymore? Not so sure about that. I would definitely no longer be optimal, but that's not the same thing as not viable. I'm guessing I'd still be over 30k, which will get you through an awful lot of content. And at 30k, it would still be considered a "high" dps build, depending on who you ask.

    Looking at Liko's 60k+ sDK parse using a gold vMA bow (https://imgur.com/Rm0U13I), it looks like roughly 17% of his damage comes from a combination of hail and poison injection. I might have that wrong a little because as a console player am unfamiliar with combat metrics - but that's what it looks like to me. Applying that math to a 40k parse puts you at over 30k dps while dropping the bow entirely and not even replacing it with other skills. Maybe a two-handed swipe here and there will get you back a couple of percentages. In the grand scheme of things, no big deal. Probably still hitting 35k or more in the end. Somebody better at this type of analysis will surely correct me if I'm wrong, but the point is that it's not totally the end of the world, just no longer the very best.

    I mean, I'm not going to do it. In fact the opposite - currently I'm farming vMA for what is turning out to be, for me, an exceptionally elusive bow. I want everything to die when I just give it a funny look. I'm just saying, I don't think it's fair to say that you have to run the cookie-cutter to get "high" dps. You do to get the highest possible dps. Big difference. I think the opportunity for build diversity is there, it's just that nobody wants it.

    I wish I could give this a "Like", an "Awesome", and an "Insightful" all at once. Great explanation!

    @Morgha_Kul
    I think what people lose sight of is that the end-game spectrum is huuuuuge. Probably just as big as the casual gamer spectrum, in terms of experience, ability, and build diversity. Yes, there are people able to hit in excess of 60k, which seems crazy to someone hitting 10k, but that [60k] person is an almost extreme outlier in terms of the average sampling of players currently working the end-game content. There isn't just this magical divide where suddenly everyone goes from 10k to 60k overnight. It's a continuous progression, often not even linear, and there are a lot of different players at a multitude of points with characters of various levels on that progression.

    Some of us hit a certain point where we are no longer satisfied with the meta and start to make "unicorn builds", to see how far we can push those. We do it knowing full-well these builds will never hit the astronomical numbers, but it's fun and honestly, it's not always important to hit the top. I love running challenging content with these players because it makes the content feel new again and presents new challenges and sometimes new benefits.

    It's easy to make assumptions about end game when you're outside of it playing the game a different (and still very viable) way, but until you're in it and seeing how things really are, your assumptions are only based on a limited perspective, which appears to be that everyone is a bunch of 60k dps monsters able to level an entire room just by walking into it. I mean...that'd be super cool and all, but I'm not going to end up there any time soon, so I'll just stick with what I've got for now.
    Xbox NA
  • MEBengalsFan2001
    MEBengalsFan2001
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    ccfeeling wrote: »
    From my point of view , DPS bottom line is around 25k .

    Actually parser result from an non moving object is quiet meaningless .

    There are many guildmates hit over 40k remarked , but they can't survive in DLC HM and V-trial :D

    I think good DPS has to well know about his build , class characteristic , fighting position , mobs mechanism and Crisis management .

    A dead Damage Dealer does not damage, making their damage per a second (DPS) lower in the overall run. That 40K mark is much lower when you are dead and producing zero damage per a second. It also forces the other DPS or healer to stop what they are doing to pick you up and this ends up hurting the group overall ability to complete content in reasonable time.

    My recommendation for anyone wanting to be a damage dealer is always play a support character first. I recommend healer than move over to a tank and finally go as a damage dealer. The reason for this is you learn mechanics of the dungeon, you learn what the support class bring to the table, and you also learn when is the best time to use various abilities to help you increase your overall damage.

    Playing support first has allowed me in other MMO game to outperform with a weaker class because I knew mechanics, positioning, etc... I also knew when to use what was my hardest hitting ability due to buffs and debuffs.

    As for producing 50K DPS, that is typically one a sparring target; when in content vary rarely are players keeping that value up as time goes on the overall damage per a second drops when there are no enemies to kill. So if you run down a hallway and kill enemies and than there is 3 seconds of nothing going on; overall damage in the run will not be 50K, it will be lower.

    I know in other games I can average over 1M damage per a second with the right group from beginning to end of the content. In this game since I'm a healer, if I can hit 10K DPS on sparring target I will be very happy.
  • xAk_MoRRoWiNdx
    xAk_MoRRoWiNdx
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    https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMU8maFYegl2aNBz-0pnWQrkj84eLAK7Cank0U7

    I hit 27k the other day on my Stamblade. The only thing wrong with my build is I'm using wrong weapons and they're sharpened, not infused. I've been farming for the one last weapon I need but RPG doesn't like me.

    Build is 5 Hundings (golded), 4 Veiled Heritance (jewelry, gold bow), 2 Stormfist (gold), 2 Night's Silence I think (for the stam. purple, sharpened)

    I've got the rotation down more or less but the weapons are holding me back :/
    New to forums and stuff so I 99.9 percent probably won't see your response and such, so use the at symbol at me I guess? IDK :/. This BBCode stuff is really cool!! :D.
    Gamer from Alaska (907 Gamers, Alaskan Gamers Unite!).
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    One day Nightblades will get the buffs we desperately need and deserve, but so far, those buffs are not today.. The Elder Scrolls Online: Nightblade Nerfs Unlimited.
    Don't nerf you, don't nerf me, nerf the sorc behind the tree!.


    If you need help or advice, hit me up on Xbox: Press F to REEE :D .
    Also open to talking on Discord!
    .
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    CP level 880. Playing since 2015.

    My wishlist I suppose:
    • PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEAAASSSEEE EITHER BUFF SIPHONING STRIKES OR REVERT IT BACK TO PRE MORROWIND!!.
    • Bring back purge cloak. But I guess the new heal cloak is more beneficial. Hmmm....
    • MAKE IMPERIAL CITY GREAT AGAIN, BRING BACK THOSE INCREDIBLE DAYS. My best experiences in ESO where in there!
    • Return Stam builds to the power we held in One Tamriel. Long Live Stamina builds!
    • Put Magplar and MagDK into their place. Magpsorc is a hopeless case.
    • Is there any chance that we could get an Ebonheart Pact nerf? #CullingTheHerds .

    My 10 characters:
    • AD - xak-Morrowindx - Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. Hours: 91 days, 2 hours (2,186 hours).
    • EP - Ich bin Groot - Orc Stamina Dragonknight. Hours: 2 days, 16 hours (64 hours).
    • DC - Who Took My Bleach - Orc Stamina Sorcerer. Hours: 3 days, 18 hours. (90 hours).
    • EP - Niada Zaennon - High Elf Magicka Nightblade. Hours: 15 days, 18 hours (378 hours).
    • AD - Healsyournoobazzwithmemes - Argonian Magicka Templar. Hours: 1 day, 9 hours (33 hours)
    • DC - Engulfing Traps - Dark Elf Magicka Dragonknight. Hours: 7 days, 17 hours (129 hours).
    • AD - Verführung - High Elf Magicka Sorcerer. Hours: 5 days, 9 hours (129 hours)
    • DC - Deadazz catch these birds - Nord Stamina Warden. Hours: 6 days, 21 hours (165 hours)
    • EP - So Bendy - Wood Elf Stamina Templar. Hours: 1 day, 15 hours (39 hours)
    • EP - Smash that mf Like button - Breton Magicka Warden. Hours: 20 hours, 20 minutes.

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  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMU8maFYegl2aNBz-0pnWQrkj84eLAK7Cank0U7

    I hit 27k the other day on my Stamblade. The only thing wrong with my build is I'm using wrong weapons and they're sharpened, not infused. I've been farming for the one last weapon I need but RPG doesn't like me.

    Build is 5 Hundings (golded), 4 Veiled Heritance (jewelry, gold bow), 2 Stormfist (gold), 2 Night's Silence I think (for the stam. purple, sharpened)

    I've got the rotation down more or less but the weapons are holding me back :/

    Your link doesn't work, could you explain what you mean by your sets though? Jewelry+bow would be a full set, you have different front bar weapons the back bar?
  • Protossyder
    Protossyder
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    https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMU8maFYegl2aNBz-0pnWQrkj84eLAK7Cank0U7

    I hit 27k the other day on my Stamblade. The only thing wrong with my build is I'm using wrong weapons and they're sharpened, not infused. I've been farming for the one last weapon I need but RPG doesn't like me.

    Build is 5 Hundings (golded), 4 Veiled Heritance (jewelry, gold bow), 2 Stormfist (gold), 2 Night's Silence I think (for the stam. purple, sharpened)

    I've got the rotation down more or less but the weapons are holding me back :/

    New weapons are not going to double your DPS.
    What you lose in the fire, you will find amongst the ashes.

    Characters worth mentioning:
    Daedrós - Magicka DK - Dunmer - PvE & PvP - Flawless Conqueror - Emperor
    Dragybor - Stamblade - Redguard - PvE (first char)
    Yondaime Raikage - Stamsorc - Redguard - PvE
    Zerg Overmind - Magblade - Altmer - PvE
    Yenari - Magsorc - Altmer - PvE - Flawless Conqueror
    Devoured-his-siblings - DK Tank - Argonian - PvE
    Valkyrja Valhalla - StamDK - Redguard - PvE
    Hyperion der Obere - Magplar - Altmer - PvE
    Affa al'Dschinni - Stamplar - Redguard - PvP
    Enjoys-the-slaughter - Templar Healer - Argonian - PvE
    Arenas: vDSA (~46k) - vMA (~580k)
    Trials: vAA hm - vHRC hm - vSO hm - vMoL hm (~161k) - vHoF hm (~202k) - vAS hm - vCR

    PC - EU
  • SoLooney
    SoLooney
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    Precursor dummy dps is irrelevant. It's just something you do for fun and build ulti on.

    The precursor does not test your sustain and it can bursted down in seconds. Very inaccurate and any dps you get on it doesnt matter

    True tests are measured on the 3m and 6m dummy respectively.

    I know you're not max cp and not hardcore into dps but that 3 to 10k you pulled on that precursor is going to be even lower if you tried the 3m and 6m

    Also, you need to get appropriate gear and a rotation going for your class or else you're gonna cap out very quickly
  • Azyle1
    Azyle1
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    50k, anything below is unacceptable.

  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
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    Morgha_Kul wrote: »
    Truthfully, I don't WANT my dps to be that high, for exactly the reason mentioned here... that most of the game would become trivial. The problem is that if I stay where I am, where I can still be challenged a bit by overland and normal content, I'll be completely unable to participate in much of the other kinds of content, like Veteran dungeons or PvP.

    That's why I call it a problem. If I'm at either end of the dps spectrum, there's going to be something I simply can't do. My dps is too high, I can't do regular content anymore (it will be trivial). My dps is too low, I can't do the high end things or pvp.

    Now, this is just my take on it. The game seems to be pretty well fine, but I've NEVER done any Veteran dungeons or dailies or anything like that. I've only rarely done any of the group dungeons, like Fungal Grotto and such, and I don't pvp, because I can neither DO nor SURVIVE damage.

    But, again, that's just my 2 cents.

    So your problem with the game is that you don't want hard content because you want to make an effort to get better.

    If you want to play how you want and just do quest etc - that's fine. But if you want all the content to be easy so everyone can do it with minimal practice and thought then it's not ok. Why play a game if you can play it while looking out the window?
    Edited by Brrrofski on February 12, 2019 3:09PM
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    It's a shame, but while any interesting build can be brought up to 25-30k dps you really want 35k or more for vet trials, preferably upwards of 50k.

    Basically you play the exact same item sets and master weapons and abilities regardless of class.
    You stack the same buffs, use the same enchantments, same mundus stone.

    You will find as you try to make your own build that if you take a "meta" build and try to edit it at all you will drop down to like 30k dps immediately because its so carefully constructed, every ability procs something, or keeps a debuff or buff up.

    It's really not that bad. Many builds can easily reach 40k+, it is less dependent on gear and more dependent on rotation and performance thereof. I have spent the last 6-7 PTS cycles testing all sorts of gear combinations to try and find better scores for Bow/Bow builds.

    The difference between the "Meta" for Bow/Bow and the random build without any meta is about 6-7k, but I can take my same "Meta" build and drop my VMA bow and still hit within 2-3k of the build with it. I can keep the VMA bow and change Relequin for Hundings and I lose about 3k. I can keep Relequin and VMA and change my front bar set between Hundings, Spriggans, TFS, Briarheart, and a variety of other sets and only lose 1-2k at most.

    Now I hit 49.5k at max setup with no cheese, I've hit 50k with a little bit of excess pen. I've learned through testing that it really isn't about using the "exact same item sets". It has much more to do with not missing light attacks, not letting dots drop or reapplying them too early, timing ultimate's and understanding how to build a rotation. Too many players are used to other games where gear drives the dps curve and do not understand that ESO is far from gear driven.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Vajrak
    Vajrak
    ✭✭✭
    I had a long response here, but honestly....it's you, not the game.
    Learn a rotation, invest in your gear --- gold your weapons at the very least.

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=118519

    This is a trash/non-optimized hybrid sorc that I threw together in about 10 minutes, and should put out around 17k pretty easily, and 25k+ with a little work---enough for all content in the game, as has been mentioned multiple times.

    Your current dps isn't even on par with a 0CP level 12 Sorc in trash/mixed gear (whatever was picked up).
  • Grianasteri
    Grianasteri
    ✭✭
    I don’t mean for this to sound harsh, but someone is carrying you. They are making up for your deficit by pulling higher numbers themselves or they are contributing a large amount of time with repeated tries to get bosses down, etc.

    I personally try to pull strong numbers and have worked hard to get to my 32k DPS in order to be able to accomplish harder content with friends who are just not interested in min maxing. I know what I signed up for but it would surely take some pressure off if they invested a little time in getting their DPS a little higher. A little effort goes a long way and would make runs a more fun and less stressful.

    2. As you move from 20k towards 30k you are reaching a dps level that nobody can just intuitively attain. That level of Dps requires research to understand what combinations of sets can do it, what spell bar set ups are required, and specific rotations of casting spells, and then you practicing it for hours on a dummy. Nobody does what you did and hits 30k dps. You can not just play the game and one day have 30k+ dps. You will need help to do that.

    @ Morgha_Kul
    Couldn’t agree more with the above statement. Along similar lines, and regardless of whether you are aiming for 10k or 50k, I had made a comment on another thread that starts to get at basic DPS strategy, that may be helpful for improving DPS gameplay in general.


    I agree with both these gentlemen on this point. I would also add that the biggest reason most DPS don’t try to learn more, is that they think they do more damage than they actually do.

    I was talking to a friend about DPS and I just mentioned that when doing Vet Dungeons as long as we were all doing at least 20K we should be fine. (I parse at 32k) He had no idea how how much he was actually doing and went to a dummy. He found out that he was only doing 10k DPS.

    After a little work and tweaks he was up to 16K with a really sloppy rotation. With a little muscle memory he will be at 20k.

    So, if you’re a DPS player and want to see all the Vet Dungeon content or beyond and have never parsed on a 6 mil dummy, do yourself (and your friends) a favor and go see how much damage you really do. Sticking your head in the sand and just saying “I do fine in Dungeons” isn’t helping anyone. At least know what you are and are not capable of.

    I tend to agree. Many people do not have any idea what their DPS is and it can be a positive process testing it and discussing build and rotation with more experienced players.

    I recently got a group together for a vet dungeon, inviting an 810 CP DPS player who I had viewed as a high DPS player (in normal dungeons). We happened to meet up at a group members house and use the target dummy, turns out the 810 was only doing about 10k dps average.

    Turns out, I am doing well over 20k dps, so returning to our earlier interaction... I know I can get faster so have every confidence I will be doing 25k ish with improved gear quality/traits and rotation. I am even more confident now that I am not being "carried" :) and have a warm fuzzy feeling inside as a consequence. lol.
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