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What's considered good DPS?

Morgha_Kul
Morgha_Kul
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So, I was visiting a guildmate's house, and he had this target dummy (the Precursor). Just for the fun of it, I decided to attack it, and when it was defeated, I got a message that told me my DPS. This came as a surprise, but I'm not sure what is considered good, what is considered adequate, what is considered bad... So, I don't know where I stand.

In case you're curious, I did 3265.0 DPS in 1m39s with my Restoration Staff and Templar spells... Mind you, I was just fooling around, I'm sure I could do more.
Exploring Tamriel since 1994.
  • Morgha_Kul
    Morgha_Kul
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    Well, that's not likely going to happen. 10s of thousands of dps? To me, that's absurd. But then, this isn't a minmaxed character in any way.

    Seeing numbers like that is worrying to me, though, from a game balance perspective. When the gulf between bottom level damage output and top end is so vast, it means that it's nearly impossible to design content for everyone. A foe that challenges me with 3-4k damage is going to be completely trivial to someone doing even 20k, let alone up to 50k. Meanwhile, something that challenges that 50k character is going to be completely unplayable to my 4k character.

    It speaks to me of broken game design... unless I'm an outlier, which is entirely possible.
    Exploring Tamriel since 1994.
  • Morgha_Kul
    Morgha_Kul
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    Well, that's what it told me. I'll try it again on a different character, this one isn't really specced one way or another (ie. 30 points in each of Stamina and Magicka, relatively basic gear with some bonus stamina and magicka, no skill based gear bonuses...).
    Exploring Tamriel since 1994.
  • Morgha_Kul
    Morgha_Kul
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    Ok, ran through it again with Morgha Kul (my main, obviously). He's a summoner Sorceror, and decently equipped (War Maiden and Defiler). He's only at 379CP, though (as are all my characters).

    I blasted away at the Precursor with my Lightning Staff, and managed a high of 7274.1 in 44s. Better, but I'm still so far away from that upper level of 50k that I must reiterate my concern. This is a character who, while not equipped with the most bleeding edge gear, is still reasonably equipped. He has ALL 64 of his points in Magicka (even though I like to use a 2H sword from time to time), and was using a dps weapon. Granted again, I've not minmaxed a rotation or anything, but I can't imagine getting a 40k+ difference from that.

    I suppose it doesn't really matter all that much... unless I decide to try PvP. In that case, I've got as much chance as an ice cube in a blast furnace. I won't be able to compete at all, and that's worrisome when my experience of PvP is already so bad. The other concern, as I said, is that I won't ever be able to do any content aimed at the 50k crowd, and when I see a variance like this, I worry that they're going to start catering to the extreme DPS players...
    Exploring Tamriel since 1994.
  • datgladiatah
    datgladiatah
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    Morgha_Kul wrote: »
    Well, that's not likely going to happen. 10s of thousands of dps? To me, that's absurd. But then, this isn't a minmaxed character in any way.

    Seeing numbers like that is worrying to me, though, from a game balance perspective. When the gulf between bottom level damage output and top end is so vast, it means that it's nearly impossible to design content for everyone. A foe that challenges me with 3-4k damage is going to be completely trivial to someone doing even 20k, let alone up to 50k. Meanwhile, something that challenges that 50k character is going to be completely unplayable to my 4k character.

    It speaks to me of broken game design... unless I'm an outlier, which is entirely possible.

    It isn't just about min maxing, it's rotation and animation cancelling, etc. You should consider watching youtube videos on DPS parses. See how they play. It definitely looks absurd but I learned, anyone can really
  • Morgha_Kul
    Morgha_Kul
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    Ok, swapped out some gear, reset my CP. Now I'm using the Mad Tinkerer set with the Defiler (more for the Hunger than anything, but it does help my 2H sword when I do decide to use it).

    That has my damage up to a bit over 10k. So, seeing an improvement. Still way, way behind that 50k level, but more in line with what's "normal" I suppose. Of course, the character has no defenses to speak of....
    Exploring Tamriel since 1994.
  • Morgha_Kul
    Morgha_Kul
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    Morgha_Kul wrote: »
    Well, that's not likely going to happen. 10s of thousands of dps? To me, that's absurd. But then, this isn't a minmaxed character in any way.

    Seeing numbers like that is worrying to me, though, from a game balance perspective. When the gulf between bottom level damage output and top end is so vast, it means that it's nearly impossible to design content for everyone. A foe that challenges me with 3-4k damage is going to be completely trivial to someone doing even 20k, let alone up to 50k. Meanwhile, something that challenges that 50k character is going to be completely unplayable to my 4k character.

    It speaks to me of broken game design... unless I'm an outlier, which is entirely possible.

    It isn't just about min maxing, it's rotation and animation cancelling, etc. You should consider watching youtube videos on DPS parses. See how they play. It definitely looks absurd but I learned, anyone can really

    To be fair, I'm really not trying to get the best dps imaginable here, I just wanted to be in the "reasonable" range. For Morgha Kul, that 10k is adequate. I've no idea how I'll ever get my Templar hybrid anywhere near that, but he's kind of a theme character anyway.
    Exploring Tamriel since 1994.
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
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    From my point of view , DPS bottom line is around 25k .

    Actually parser result from an non moving object is quiet meaningless .

    There are many guildmates hit over 40k remarked , but they can't survive in DLC HM and V-trial :D

    I think good DPS has to well know about his build , class characteristic , fighting position , mobs mechanism and Crisis management .
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    Morgha_Kul wrote: »
    So, I was visiting a guildmate's house, and he had this target dummy (the Precursor). Just for the fun of it, I decided to attack it, and when it was defeated, I got a message that told me my DPS. This came as a surprise, but I'm not sure what is considered good, what is considered adequate, what is considered bad... So, I don't know where I stand.

    In case you're curious, I did 3265.0 DPS in 1m39s with my Restoration Staff and Templar spells... Mind you, I was just fooling around, I'm sure I could do more.

    My answer is enough for you to do the content you like to do. As that's all that matters.

    Hitting 25k is a nice place to be for alot it. Folks talking about 40k+ will be top end trials boys, so back to my paragraph 1.
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus - VR16 (810CP) Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-02-18 / 16-02-18
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus - Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus - Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting for : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Lunar Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | TradersOfNirn2
    Trials : Saviours

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus - L40 Dunmer Magsorc enjoying legit use of Kyne, sub 50 BG and exploring the game anew
    Heals-With-Pets - CP160+ Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
  • Protossyder
    Protossyder
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    Morgha_Kul wrote: »
    Well, that's not likely going to happen. 10s of thousands of dps? To me, that's absurd. But then, this isn't a minmaxed character in any way.

    Seeing numbers like that is worrying to me, though, from a game balance perspective. When the gulf between bottom level damage output and top end is so vast, it means that it's nearly impossible to design content for everyone. A foe that challenges me with 3-4k damage is going to be completely trivial to someone doing even 20k, let alone up to 50k. Meanwhile, something that challenges that 50k character is going to be completely unplayable to my 4k character.

    It speaks to me of broken game design... unless I'm an outlier, which is entirely possible.

    We are not talking about economic inequality here. You can simply git gud.
    And the game is already designed for everyone:

    Quests (0 - 10k) < World Bosses and Public Dungeons (10 - 20k) < Dungeons (20 - 30k) < Trials (30k+)
    What you lose in the fire, you will find amongst the ashes.

    Characters worth mentioning:
    Daedrós - Magicka DK - Dunmer - PvE & PvP - Flawless Conqueror - Emperor
    Dragybor - Stamblade - Redguard - PvE (first char)
    Yondaime Raikage - Stamsorc - Redguard - PvE
    Zerg Overmind - Magblade - Altmer - PvE
    Yenari - Magsorc - Altmer - PvE - Flawless Conqueror
    Devoured-his-siblings - DK Tank - Argonian - PvE
    Valkyrja Valhalla - StamDK - Redguard - PvE
    Hyperion der Obere - Magplar - Altmer - PvE
    Affa al'Dschinni - Stamplar - Redguard - PvP
    Enjoys-the-slaughter - Templar Healer - Argonian - PvE
    Arenas: vDSA (~46k) - vMA (~580k)
    Trials: vAA hm - vHRC hm - vSO hm - vMoL hm (~161k) - vHoF hm (~202k) - vAS hm - vCR

    PC - EU
  • CultOfMMO
    CultOfMMO
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    45k solo 6mil

    Not because you need that much to clear content but because that's within a healthy baseline of current ceiling dps for all classes

    In a game where older content gets outscaled more every patch, no raid lead with a functioning brain will benchmark players relative to content these days, but relative to other players available.
    Crag HMs
    vMoLHM 133k
    vHoF HM 168k
    vAS HM 95k
    vCR HM 126k Gryphon Heart
    Flawless Conqueror Magblade 601k
  • kathandira
    kathandira
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    Morgha_Kul wrote: »
    So, I was visiting a guildmate's house, and he had this target dummy (the Precursor). Just for the fun of it, I decided to attack it, and when it was defeated, I got a message that told me my DPS. This came as a surprise, but I'm not sure what is considered good, what is considered adequate, what is considered bad... So, I don't know where I stand.

    In case you're curious, I did 3265.0 DPS in 1m39s with my Restoration Staff and Templar spells... Mind you, I was just fooling around, I'm sure I could do more.

    It's hard to say as it varies through different levels of content.

    As a good starting marker, 15k is a nice place to be to get through Normal and Vet Dungeons, maybe more like 20k for Vet DLC Dungeons. 15k will also get you into a Normal Trial, but Vet Trials will need much more.


  • TimeWizard
    TimeWizard
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    A friend on mine was messing around last night on a dummy to see what he wold hit only spamming one skill. Using only ele weapon spam he was hitting 27k on a dummy.

    I recommend looking around for dps builds and rotations because there really is no excuse to hit anywhere under 20k. I can hit over 20k on my full healer spec, so everyone should be able to do it on their dpses.
  • p00tx
    p00tx
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    Morgha_Kul wrote: »
    Well, that's not likely going to happen. 10s of thousands of dps? To me, that's absurd. But then, this isn't a minmaxed character in any way.

    Seeing numbers like that is worrying to me, though, from a game balance perspective. When the gulf between bottom level damage output and top end is so vast, it means that it's nearly impossible to design content for everyone. A foe that challenges me with 3-4k damage is going to be completely trivial to someone doing even 20k, let alone up to 50k. Meanwhile, something that challenges that 50k character is going to be completely unplayable to my 4k character.

    It speaks to me of broken game design... unless I'm an outlier, which is entirely possible.

    You're not an outlier, and there is nothing wrong with the content parity. You are a beginner, and there is absolutely nothing wrong or bad about that. It's just a place to begin. This game has an INCREDIBLE range of content available to players of all levels, and as you progress, you will come to appreciate that more. Right now, you are probably having a blast moving through delves and overland, slaying daedra and toppling evil empires. I remember that being a challenge for me when I started this game, and I loved it. I was hooked. This was the entirety of the game for me and I didn't know there was anything else outside of it.

    Now, I can one shot light attack most overland NPCs and delve bosses melt in my AoEs before I can even complete a full rotation. I have advanced to a point that this content is no longer optimized for me, and I have to find something else to challenge me. This is where that really difficult content comes in, so that people like me can stay interested after three years of growing and moving through the various content, including PvP. It's also what will keep you interested someday when you have been playing longer or more intensely, and you decide you need/want more of a challenge. The only things that will be changing for you are that you will probably have high crafting levels and have access to better gear. You may have a better grasp of what a rotation is and how to piece one together and execute it.

    If you're interested in moving from where you are now, there are lots of really cool, helpful people in this game who would likely be willing to hang out for a bit and show you how to begin moving toward that end-game material. You have the same potential to get there, but only when you decide you're ready.
    Xbox NA
  • TimeWizard
    TimeWizard
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    And yeah go for mother's sorrow definately, it's one of the very best magicka sets in the game. Julianos is a pretty good starting place too. Spell strategiest is even better but I wouldn't worry about it too much. And definately run two inferno staves on your mag sorc.
  • iiYuki
    iiYuki
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    Purely opinion but:
    15k-20k+ Normal Dungeons
    20k-25k+ Veteran Dungeons
    25k+ nTrials
    30k+ vTrials

    I would personally consider 25k as good and entering 30k+ is great and you are probably someone that will have no problem finding groups, though I would say 20k-25k is enough to successfully contribute and complete any content.
    "Play how you want... unless its not how we intended you to play in which case we'll nerf it".
    - ZO$

    - The ZO$ Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmUJWP_ebsQ
  • kathandira
    kathandira
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    iiYuki wrote: »
    Purely opinion but:
    15k-20k+ Normal Dungeons
    20k-25k+ Veteran Dungeons
    25k+ nTrials
    30k+ vTrials

    I would personally consider 25k as good and entering 30k+ is great and you are probably someone that will have no problem finding groups, though I would say 20k-25k is enough to successfully contribute and complete any content.

    I personally would lower each value by 5k, except for vTrials. 2 DPS doing 10k in Normal should be good, not great, but good. Even Normal Trials could be a little lower. We run a training run on Mondays with our guild, and I can tell you that about 1/2 the DPS is likely between 10k and 15k. But we get it done, and it doesn't take forever.
  • Heimpai
    Heimpai
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    TimeWizard wrote: »
    And yeah go for mother's sorrow definately, it's one of the very best magicka sets in the game. Julianos is a pretty good starting place too. Spell strategiest is even better but I wouldn't worry about it too much. And definately run two inferno staves on your mag sorc.

    What about a magblade? I have spinners/bright throat/juli/spell strat/mothers sorrow

    Or should i get something else? I plan on trying some pve for the first time since like 200cp (670 now)
  • kathandira
    kathandira
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    Heimpai wrote: »
    TimeWizard wrote: »
    And yeah go for mother's sorrow definately, it's one of the very best magicka sets in the game. Julianos is a pretty good starting place too. Spell strategiest is even better but I wouldn't worry about it too much. And definately run two inferno staves on your mag sorc.

    What about a magblade? I have spinners/bright throat/juli/spell strat/mothers sorrow

    Or should i get something else? I plan on trying some pve for the first time since like 200cp (670 now)

    For a MagBlade, you can try Mother's Sorrow and Spell Strategist for single target effectiveness. This is assuming you aren't interested in Veteran Content. If you want to do Vet, you can swap Mother's Sorrow for Spinners to get the Spell Penetration.

    Really though, excluding Bright Throat, you can mix any of the sets you listed to get you up to 15k or more with a loose rotation.
  • MooseKnuckles88
    MooseKnuckles88
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    CultOfMMO wrote: »
    45k solo 6mil

    Is this with or without super cheese? Aka spell strat, siroria, and zaans, parses that are plaguing YouTube. I would argue more people will be able to hit those numbers if they're parsing with a friend buffing them up and debuffing the dummy. Now, complete solo parse with out spell strat and siroria, and I'll see someone who knows their class, abilities, and rotation well.
  • CultOfMMO
    CultOfMMO
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    CultOfMMO wrote: »
    45k solo 6mil

    Is this with or without super cheese? Aka spell strat, siroria, and zaans, parses that are plaguing YouTube. I would argue more people will be able to hit those numbers if they're parsing with a friend buffing them up and debuffing the dummy. Now, complete solo parse with out spell strat and siroria, and I'll see someone who knows their class, abilities, and rotation well.

    not even gona ask why you think those sets are cheese cuz thats a slippery slope and not relevant to the discussion at hand

    but i meant siro, spell strat, zaan, and parse food to simulate orbs should get you 55-56k completely solo 6mil

    so 45k is a relatively healthy baseline, you kinda sorta know what you're doing, but still a ton of fine tuning.

    but either way everything is relative so for "cheese" sets like you put it, 55k is ceiling and 45k is a good start, then for just about any non-cheese set say bsw and sorrow you can still easily hit 50k, to which 40k would be a good start.
    Crag HMs
    vMoLHM 133k
    vHoF HM 168k
    vAS HM 95k
    vCR HM 126k Gryphon Heart
    Flawless Conqueror Magblade 601k
  • Morgha_Kul
    Morgha_Kul
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    Truthfully, I don't WANT my dps to be that high, for exactly the reason mentioned here... that most of the game would become trivial. The problem is that if I stay where I am, where I can still be challenged a bit by overland and normal content, I'll be completely unable to participate in much of the other kinds of content, like Veteran dungeons or PvP.

    That's why I call it a problem. If I'm at either end of the dps spectrum, there's going to be something I simply can't do. My dps is too high, I can't do regular content anymore (it will be trivial). My dps is too low, I can't do the high end things or pvp.

    Now, this is just my take on it. The game seems to be pretty well fine, but I've NEVER done any Veteran dungeons or dailies or anything like that. I've only rarely done any of the group dungeons, like Fungal Grotto and such, and I don't pvp, because I can neither DO nor SURVIVE damage.

    But, again, that's just my 2 cents.
    Exploring Tamriel since 1994.
  • RebornV3x
    RebornV3x
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    25k can get you through just about all content in the game especially if all DPS are doing 25k+ it might not be the cleanest trial or dungeon run but possible but all dps should try to break 40k anything past that is icing on the cake especially if your doing hard modes on DLC trials and dungeons.
    Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
    I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.
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