Curse Eater Really Strong

Minno · February 2019

Feanor wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Here's a sample from a normal raid in combat vs another raid (about 15 of us vs an opposing 15 + about that same number of random others on both sides):

Column #1:Seconds in Combat / Column #2: Negative Effects on Me

1 0
2 0
3 0
4 4
5 7
6 9
7 14
8 9
9 7
10 11
11 14
12 9
13 9
14 4
15 14
16 18
17 17
18 17
19 8
20 5
21 9
22 11
23 10
24 15
25 14
26 8
27 5
28 7
29 7
30 6
31 1
32 0
33 0
34 6
35 11
36 19
37 18
38 19
39 17
40 12
41 7
42 16
43 0 DEAD
44 0 DEAD
45 0 DEAD

The average number of debuffs in combat ranges up to 19. There are periods of combat where for 4-5 seconds it gets close to 20, and for a solid fifteen seconds other than a lingering ritual, it didn't drop much below 10. This is normal for a fight, and I'm playing a MagPlar who can hit lingering ritual often enough!

Removing 3 negative effects every 8 seconds is completely useless. I understand that the whinging of the DoT/Bleed builds made this set change from what was REASONABLE for raids to use, but it's now completely wasted and will likely be used the same amount as before this patch (meaning not at all).

@ZOS_GinaBruno It is very apparent that the people making decisions are listening to the vocal minority of bleed/dot build duellists rather than actually looking at how negative effects occur in combat. There's a reason that raids need a purge-monkey (an honourable position of high sustain whose only job is to cast purge). This set, as it was before allowed that purge monkey to actually do something other than build for spamming one button.

2 effects every 2 seconds would have changed that barrage of debuffs?

That's the point of his comment. Even 2 effects purged wouldn't have done anything, but at least it was better thanan 8 seconds cooldown where your enemy can literally hit you with 2 attacks to stack 4 bleeds + siphoner + poison lol.

And i still haven't seen a video showing a full duel in normal combat. I know some of those creators can light attack weave like lighting; made no sense seeing someone spam one ability every 2 seconds like they were a casual lol.

Feanor · February 2019

Minno wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Here's a sample from a normal raid in combat vs another raid (about 15 of us vs an opposing 15 + about that same number of random others on both sides):

Column #1:Seconds in Combat / Column #2: Negative Effects on Me

1 0
2 0
3 0
4 4
5 7
6 9
7 14
8 9
9 7
10 11
11 14
12 9
13 9
14 4
15 14
16 18
17 17
18 17
19 8
20 5
21 9
22 11
23 10
24 15
25 14
26 8
27 5
28 7
29 7
30 6
31 1
32 0
33 0
34 6
35 11
36 19
37 18
38 19
39 17
40 12
41 7
42 16
43 0 DEAD
44 0 DEAD
45 0 DEAD

The average number of debuffs in combat ranges up to 19. There are periods of combat where for 4-5 seconds it gets close to 20, and for a solid fifteen seconds other than a lingering ritual, it didn't drop much below 10. This is normal for a fight, and I'm playing a MagPlar who can hit lingering ritual often enough!

Removing 3 negative effects every 8 seconds is completely useless. I understand that the whinging of the DoT/Bleed builds made this set change from what was REASONABLE for raids to use, but it's now completely wasted and will likely be used the same amount as before this patch (meaning not at all).

@ZOS_GinaBruno It is very apparent that the people making decisions are listening to the vocal minority of bleed/dot build duellists rather than actually looking at how negative effects occur in combat. There's a reason that raids need a purge-monkey (an honourable position of high sustain whose only job is to cast purge). This set, as it was before allowed that purge monkey to actually do something other than build for spamming one button.

2 effects every 2 seconds would have changed that barrage of debuffs?

That's the point of his comment. Even 2 effects purged wouldn't have done anything, but at least it was better thanan 8 seconds cooldown where your enemy can literally hit you with 2 attacks to stack 4 bleeds + siphoner + poison lol.

And i still haven't seen a video showing a full duel in normal combat. I know some of those creators can light attack weave like lighting; made no sense seeing someone spam one ability every 2 seconds like they were a casual lol.

I get that point, but then the set wasn’t really designed for large scale combat like that it seems. I mean, if you look at 15v15 you’d need to buff it through the roof for it to be deemed worthwhile.

That purge bots exist is a prof how strong and important purging is. Do we really want this to be done passively by a set?

Juhasow · February 2019

casparian wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

has It’s uses but I doubt people pick it up. Requires a direct heal and increased the time.

8 seconds isn't that long. It will still be enough to allow me to shrug off the Defile from each Incap, for instance. And the direct heal requirement is fine if you're running it for yourself, not a group. Direct heals are all over the place. Even Entropy has a direct heal.

So You assume that fracture , bleeds , poison injection , posions , snares etc etc will magically vanish allowing You to purge the defile from incap ? Many stamblades is using incap after the fear so You will also have additiolnal snare and minor maim on You so good luck beliving that 1 of those 3 negative effects that are getting purged will be always defile. Also if You'll use direct heal before incap then You'll have that set on 8 seconds cooldown so actually fact there is lot of direct heals is not a good thing because You may accidentally proc curse eater when You dont want it and then have it on cooldown when You need it.

Blackleopardex · February 2019

Minno wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Here's a sample from a normal raid in combat vs another raid (about 15 of us vs an opposing 15 + about that same number of random others on both sides):

Column #1:Seconds in Combat / Column #2: Negative Effects on Me

1 0
2 0
3 0
4 4
5 7
6 9
7 14
8 9
9 7
10 11
11 14
12 9
13 9
14 4
15 14
16 18
17 17
18 17
19 8
20 5
21 9
22 11
23 10
24 15
25 14
26 8
27 5
28 7
29 7
30 6
31 1
32 0
33 0
34 6
35 11
36 19
37 18
38 19
39 17
40 12
41 7
42 16
43 0 DEAD
44 0 DEAD
45 0 DEAD

The average number of debuffs in combat ranges up to 19. There are periods of combat where for 4-5 seconds it gets close to 20, and for a solid fifteen seconds other than a lingering ritual, it didn't drop much below 10. This is normal for a fight, and I'm playing a MagPlar who can hit lingering ritual often enough!

Removing 3 negative effects every 8 seconds is completely useless. I understand that the whinging of the DoT/Bleed builds made this set change from what was REASONABLE for raids to use, but it's now completely wasted and will likely be used the same amount as before this patch (meaning not at all).

@ZOS_GinaBruno It is very apparent that the people making decisions are listening to the vocal minority of bleed/dot build duellists rather than actually looking at how negative effects occur in combat. There's a reason that raids need a purge-monkey (an honourable position of high sustain whose only job is to cast purge). This set, as it was before allowed that purge monkey to actually do something other than build for spamming one button.

2 effects every 2 seconds would have changed that barrage of debuffs?

That's the point of his comment. Even 2 effects purged wouldn't have done anything, but at least it was better thanan 8 seconds cooldown where your enemy can literally hit you with 2 attacks to stack 4 bleeds + siphoner + poison lol.

And i still haven't seen a video showing a full duel in normal combat. I know some of those creators can light attack weave like lighting; made no sense seeing someone spam one ability every 2 seconds like they were a casual lol.

I would say his point is that it would be a 5 item set that is useful for taking up 5 slots and not overpowered in general pvp. The only place it would be sometimes "overpowered" is in duels against certain build/classes.. But then we need to have a look at many sets then that should be nerfed because they over-preform in duels against certain classes and builds:)

ChunkyCat · February 2019

Think of the duelists!

LeL

Crown · February 2019

Feanor wrote: »

2 effects every 2 seconds would have changed that barrage of debuffs?

@Feanor That's my point. Nerfing it how they've done for current PTS makes it even more useless.

One effect per second (2 per 2 seconds), with 2 healers running it in a larger raid renders it of similar value to Transmutation, Gossamer, SPC, Olorime, etc.

See details / discussion here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457511/the-state-of-debuffs-with-sample-data-from-20-fights-the-curse-eater-argument

Feanor · February 2019

@Crown

I didn’t care about the different versions - I’m not a dueler. I just don’t think the general issues with the plethora of debuffs should be solved with a set that then becomes mandatory.

bardx86 · February 2019

Question, if it purges a CC ability does the that person get CC immunity? It sounds like they shouldn't as they never used the break free process.

ToRelax · February 2019

Blackleopardex wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Here's a sample from a normal raid in combat vs another raid (about 15 of us vs an opposing 15 + about that same number of random others on both sides):

Column #1:Seconds in Combat / Column #2: Negative Effects on Me

1 0
2 0
3 0
4 4
5 7
6 9
7 14
8 9
9 7
10 11
11 14
12 9
13 9
14 4
15 14
16 18
17 17
18 17
19 8
20 5
21 9
22 11
23 10
24 15
25 14
26 8
27 5
28 7
29 7
30 6
31 1
32 0
33 0
34 6
35 11
36 19
37 18
38 19
39 17
40 12
41 7
42 16
43 0 DEAD
44 0 DEAD
45 0 DEAD

The average number of debuffs in combat ranges up to 19. There are periods of combat where for 4-5 seconds it gets close to 20, and for a solid fifteen seconds other than a lingering ritual, it didn't drop much below 10. This is normal for a fight, and I'm playing a MagPlar who can hit lingering ritual often enough!

Removing 3 negative effects every 8 seconds is completely useless. I understand that the whinging of the DoT/Bleed builds made this set change from what was REASONABLE for raids to use, but it's now completely wasted and will likely be used the same amount as before this patch (meaning not at all).

ZOS_GinaBruno It is very apparent that the people making decisions are listening to the vocal minority of bleed/dot build duellists rather than actually looking at how negative effects occur in combat. There's a reason that raids need a purge-monkey (an honourable position of high sustain whose only job is to cast purge). This set, as it was before allowed that purge monkey to actually do something other than build for spamming one button.

2 effects every 2 seconds would have changed that barrage of debuffs?

That's the point of his comment. Even 2 effects purged wouldn't have done anything, but at least it was better thanan 8 seconds cooldown where your enemy can literally hit you with 2 attacks to stack 4 bleeds + siphoner + poison lol.

And i still haven't seen a video showing a full duel in normal combat. I know some of those creators can light attack weave like lighting; made no sense seeing someone spam one ability every 2 seconds like they were a casual lol.

I would say his point is that it would be a 5 item set that is useful for taking up 5 slots and not overpowered in general pvp. The only place it would be sometimes "overpowered" is in duels against certain build/classes.. But then we need to have a look at many sets then that should be nerfed because they over-preform in duels against certain classes and builds:)

On one hand I would argue that it actually was overpowered for "general pvp". A fight between two large groups plus randoms is hardly that, and unless a large amount of players in one raid used Curse Eater, one shouldn't expect it to make a big difference. Because it doesn't scale with number of players.

On the other hand, I would absolutely like to see some sets and skills balanced that overperform in duels. Right now, dueling is a joke if you don't specifically try to make it a fair fight.

Crown · February 2019

Feanor wrote: »

@Crown

I didn’t care about the different versions - I’m not a dueler. I just don’t think the general issues with the plethora of debuffs should be solved with a set that then becomes mandatory.

@Feanor I agree in principle, though the game has reached the point that for larger fights there are a lot of mandatory sets. Right now at least one if not two people spamming purge is mandatory. Better to let them play in a non-monotonous-spamming manner with one more mandatory set. There's a balance that can be reached for this one at least..

Sharee · February 2019

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

The silent majority is content with this change.

The silent majority does not even realize there is a PTS.

Rukzadlithau · February 2019

All they needed to do is give it a 10-20% proc chance on heals.

D0RID0RI240 · February 2019

I mean, to be honest, I really dont care about the large Vivec style raid angle, I don't understand what difference it makes who is debuffing or cleansing whom when half of ya'll are in the process of lagging out in there anyway, but I digress. From a small group/duo or even solo perspective, a reasonable rework of this set would do wonders for magblades and sorcs, for example, as neither class has a cleanse in their kit. I am not slotting efficient purge in Sotha. To be honest, you can just delete this set and the ideals behind it if you finally do somthing about the fact that we are CONSTANTLY snared, slowed, rooted, and defiled while also getting bled out with unmitigatable damage. Having predictable fluid movement, speed, and elusiveness in Cyrodiil used to be a thing. Now I am looking at more snared slowed gameplay until the next chapter releases while being stuck in combat..and things like..shade are still broken. The race updates and changes are a great development but it still is overshadowed by these persistent issues and the resulting meta in Cyro and BGs that it has created.

ToRelax · February 2019

D0RID0RI240 wrote: »

I mean, to be honest, I really dont care about the large Vivec style raid angle, I don't understand whar difference it makes whats debuffing or cleansing whom when half of ya'll are in the process of lagging out in there any way, but I digress. From a small group/duo or even solo perspective, a reasonable rework of this set would do wonders for magblades and sorcs, for example, as neither class has a cleanse in their kit. I am not slotting efficient purge in Sotha. To be honest, you can just delete this set and the ideals behind it if you finally do somthing about the fact that we are CONSTANTLY snared, slowed, rooted, and defiled while also getting bled out with unmitigatable damage. Having predictable fluid movement, speed, and elusiveness in Cyrodiil used to be a thing. Now I am looking at more snared slowed gameplay until the next chapter releases while being stuck in combat..and things like..shade are still broken. The race updates and changes are a great development but it still is overshadowed by these persistent issues and the resulting meta in Cyro and BGs that it has created.

I would love it to be useful for builds without good access to Purge. Unfortunately, it seems ZOS wanted to increase the cd to more than the duration of Backlash, which now brings the same problem the wyrd set is suffering from though to a lesser degree: reliability to have the purge ready and long waiting time when an important effect isn't purged. I think the cd could well be reduced to 6 seconds at 3 debuffs removed, while keeping maximum mag restored per time the same.

Glory · February 2019

Crown wrote: »

Here's a sample from a normal raid in combat vs another raid (about 15 of us vs an opposing 15 + about that same number of random others on both sides):

Column #1:Seconds in Combat / Column #2: Negative Effects on Me

1 0
2 0
3 0
4 4
5 7
6 9
7 14
8 9
9 7
10 11
11 14
12 9
13 9
14 4
15 14
16 18
17 17
18 17
19 8
20 5
21 9
22 11
23 10
24 15
25 14
26 8
27 5
28 7
29 7
30 6
31 1
32 0
33 0
34 6
35 11
36 19
37 18
38 19
39 17
40 12
41 7
42 16
43 0 DEAD
44 0 DEAD
45 0 DEAD

The average number of debuffs in combat ranges up to 19. There are periods of combat where for 4-5 seconds it gets close to 20, and for a solid fifteen seconds other than a lingering ritual, it didn't drop much below 10. This is normal for a fight, and I'm playing a MagPlar who can hit lingering ritual often enough!

Removing 3 negative effects every 8 seconds is completely useless. I understand that the whinging of the DoT/Bleed builds made this set change from what was REASONABLE for raids to use, but it's now completely wasted and will likely be used the same amount as before this patch (meaning not at all).

@ZOS_GinaBruno It is very apparent that the people making decisions are listening to the vocal minority of bleed/dot build duellists rather than actually looking at how negative effects occur in combat. There's a reason that raids need a purge-monkey (an honourable position of high sustain whose only job is to cast purge). This set, as it was before allowed that purge monkey to actually do something other than build for spamming one button.

Thank you for pointing to the fact that this set in its first iteration was decent but not overperforming in a group vs. group environment. Sure it needed modifications to be not broken when stacked or in duels (player based CDs and/or not allowing multiples stacking perhaps), but one of these is completely underwhelming even in a 6v6 (small numbers for Cyrodiil).

What people don't realize is that this is a recording of ONE person's debuffs in a fight. Imagine thinking this is a good healer set (with even a 2 second cooldown), when in this fight you have to multiple those debuffs per second by 15 (in this case). That's and average of 285 debuffs on a 15-man each second - that means the original version of Curse Eater would negate 1/285 (1%) of negative effects per second if one person ran it, and if all 15 players ran it (thus all losing 5 piece bonuses) you'd be removing 5% of debuffs (ignoring the idea that they're easy to reapply).

Royaji · February 2019

Glory wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Here's a sample from a normal raid in combat vs another raid (about 15 of us vs an opposing 15 + about that same number of random others on both sides):

Column #1:Seconds in Combat / Column #2: Negative Effects on Me

1 0
2 0
3 0
4 4
5 7
6 9
7 14
8 9
9 7
10 11
11 14
12 9
13 9
14 4
15 14
16 18
17 17
18 17
19 8
20 5
21 9
22 11
23 10
24 15
25 14
26 8
27 5
28 7
29 7
30 6
31 1
32 0
33 0
34 6
35 11
36 19
37 18
38 19
39 17
40 12
41 7
42 16
43 0 DEAD
44 0 DEAD
45 0 DEAD

The average number of debuffs in combat ranges up to 19. There are periods of combat where for 4-5 seconds it gets close to 20, and for a solid fifteen seconds other than a lingering ritual, it didn't drop much below 10. This is normal for a fight, and I'm playing a MagPlar who can hit lingering ritual often enough!

Removing 3 negative effects every 8 seconds is completely useless. I understand that the whinging of the DoT/Bleed builds made this set change from what was REASONABLE for raids to use, but it's now completely wasted and will likely be used the same amount as before this patch (meaning not at all).

@ZOS_GinaBruno It is very apparent that the people making decisions are listening to the vocal minority of bleed/dot build duellists rather than actually looking at how negative effects occur in combat. There's a reason that raids need a purge-monkey (an honourable position of high sustain whose only job is to cast purge). This set, as it was before allowed that purge monkey to actually do something other than build for spamming one button.

Thank you for pointing to the fact that this set in its first iteration was decent but not overperforming in a group vs. group environment. Sure it needed modifications to be not broken when stacked or in duels (player based CDs and/or not allowing multiples stacking perhaps), but one of these is completely underwhelming even in a 6v6 (small numbers for Cyrodiil).

What people don't realize is that this is a recording of ONE person's debuffs in a fight. Imagine thinking this is a good healer set (with even a 2 second cooldown), when in this fight you have to multiple those debuffs per second by 15 (in this case). That's and average of 285 debuffs on a 15-man each second - that means the original version of Curse Eater would negate 1/285 (1%) of negative effects per second if one person ran it, and if all 15 players ran it (thus all losing 5 piece bonuses) you'd be removing 5% of debuffs (ignoring the idea that they're easy to reapply).

The issue with the original iteration was not the amount of debuffs it removed but just the sheer number of effects that are considered debuffs. Curse is considered a debuff, all DoTs are considered debuffs (even the ones that only do damage), all CCs were also considered a debuff for this set. This was the main issue with this set. Say if it only worked on Major/Minor effects (and snares were somehow rolled into Major/Minor system) it would've been fine in it's original form.

Patro · February 2019

Thanks for the nerf! Now the magicka builds will have another useless set.

Sharee · February 2019

Royaji wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Here's a sample from a normal raid in combat vs another raid (about 15 of us vs an opposing 15 + about that same number of random others on both sides):

Column #1:Seconds in Combat / Column #2: Negative Effects on Me

1 0
2 0
3 0
4 4
5 7
6 9
7 14
8 9
9 7
10 11
11 14
12 9
13 9
14 4
15 14
16 18
17 17
18 17
19 8
20 5
21 9
22 11
23 10
24 15
25 14
26 8
27 5
28 7
29 7
30 6
31 1
32 0
33 0
34 6
35 11
36 19
37 18
38 19
39 17
40 12
41 7
42 16
43 0 DEAD
44 0 DEAD
45 0 DEAD

The average number of debuffs in combat ranges up to 19. There are periods of combat where for 4-5 seconds it gets close to 20, and for a solid fifteen seconds other than a lingering ritual, it didn't drop much below 10. This is normal for a fight, and I'm playing a MagPlar who can hit lingering ritual often enough!

Removing 3 negative effects every 8 seconds is completely useless. I understand that the whinging of the DoT/Bleed builds made this set change from what was REASONABLE for raids to use, but it's now completely wasted and will likely be used the same amount as before this patch (meaning not at all).

@ZOS_GinaBruno It is very apparent that the people making decisions are listening to the vocal minority of bleed/dot build duellists rather than actually looking at how negative effects occur in combat. There's a reason that raids need a purge-monkey (an honourable position of high sustain whose only job is to cast purge). This set, as it was before allowed that purge monkey to actually do something other than build for spamming one button.

Thank you for pointing to the fact that this set in its first iteration was decent but not overperforming in a group vs. group environment. Sure it needed modifications to be not broken when stacked or in duels (player based CDs and/or not allowing multiples stacking perhaps), but one of these is completely underwhelming even in a 6v6 (small numbers for Cyrodiil).

What people don't realize is that this is a recording of ONE person's debuffs in a fight. Imagine thinking this is a good healer set (with even a 2 second cooldown), when in this fight you have to multiple those debuffs per second by 15 (in this case). That's and average of 285 debuffs on a 15-man each second - that means the original version of Curse Eater would negate 1/285 (1%) of negative effects per second if one person ran it, and if all 15 players ran it (thus all losing 5 piece bonuses) you'd be removing 5% of debuffs (ignoring the idea that they're easy to reapply).

The issue with the original iteration was not the amount of debuffs it removed but just the sheer number of effects that are considered debuffs. Curse is considered a debuff, all DoTs are considered debuffs (even the ones that only do damage), all CCs were also considered a debuff for this set. This was the main issue with this set. Say if it only worked on Major/Minor effects (and snares were somehow rolled into Major/Minor system) it would've been fine in it's original form.

The very fact that so many effects are considered debuffs was what made the set balanced in the firstplace.
You are literally bombarded with debuffs every second in anything outside 1v1(and even *in* some 1v1), and this set removed one per second. The chance of removing something important was low, except when the attacker on purpose applied 2 debuffs, waited for the set to cleanse them, applied 2 debuffs, waited... like those propaganda videos you can find in this thread.

And the target in those "tests" did nothing but run a hot. If he actually started fighting back, it might have become apparent that he does no damage because he had to sacrifice his damage set to wear curse eater. We'll never know now.

Ragnarock41 · February 2019

Really makes you think to see how many people want to have a crutch set and justify that need by the existance of another crutch mechanic(aka muh bleeds), while ignoring all the other setups this set would render useless.

Every time a set thats clearly broken appears , the same people cry so hard to keep it in the game and when they get what they want, PvP gets unplayable for a few months.

Though I'm happy that Zenimax finally took their lesson and started to do things in a way that makes sense. Better have a mediocre set instead of one that overperforms heavily.

D0RID0RI240 · February 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Really makes you think to see how many people want to have a clutch set and justify that need by the existance of another clutch mechanic(aka muh bleeds), while ignoring all the other setups this set would render useless.

Every time a set thats clearly broken appears , the same people cry so hard to keep it in the game and when they get what they want, PvP gets unplayable for a few months.

Though I'm happy that Zenimax finally took their lesson and started to do things in a way that makes sense. Better have a mediocre set instead of one that overperforms heavily.

Or they could have had a more reasonable middle ground between "Broken AF" and "Decon Fodder" but I see this is a difficult concept still for some people.

"Clutch"

Ragnarock41 · February 2019

D0RID0RI240 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Really makes you think to see how many people want to have a clutch set and justify that need by the existance of another clutch mechanic(aka muh bleeds), while ignoring all the other setups this set would render useless.

Every time a set thats clearly broken appears , the same people cry so hard to keep it in the game and when they get what they want, PvP gets unplayable for a few months.

Though I'm happy that Zenimax finally took their lesson and started to do things in a way that makes sense. Better have a mediocre set instead of one that overperforms heavily.

Or they could have had a more reasonable middle ground between "Broken AF" and "Decon Fodder" but I see this is a difficult concept still for some people.

"Clutch"

One of the ''perks'' of using a mobile phone is auto correction, thanks for reminding me though /s

If you think them not spending much time on set balance is bad, you don't wanna know how little they do about class balance. Very rarely ZOS handled class balance in a careful way, untill recently it was usually massive nerfs or massive buffs.(Of course that too has changed.)

PS : Look, like everyone devs are people too. They can't be perfect and they don't live in a different part of the space so time goes the same speed for all of us. (aka they got limited time) They probably started designing these sets months ago while we had all the ''nerf bleeds'' posts in here, so they thought a set could help because they couldn't think of a more complex solution yet. The best move would be to not release the set yet and add it later when they can figure out a more balanced approach. A less perfect option is not releasing it at all. And releasing a ''decon fodder'' set is like not releasing it at all. But Its better to have a decon fodder set and buff it later than releasing a broken AF set and nerf it later.

brandonv516 · February 2019

I would hope ZoS will still consider somewhere between 3 and 6 seconds as the final sweet spot when it goes live.

Otherwise you have failed at trying to change sets to become more frequently used.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Ruckly · February 2019

Purging 3 debuffs every 8 seconds on a direct heal looks good to me. Ballista firebolt applies a debuff that can be removed with a direct heal that also tops you off. Dots can be removed with a direct heal. You get a heal and a purge one GCD every 8 seconds. 8 seconds is not a very long time. If you are playing with a light armor set you are probably mobile enough not to get hit continuously by debuffs. If you are getting hit continuously by debuffs in light armor then what difference does it make whether this set exists as is or never was an idea to begin with? If you think it is that bad don't use it. Shadow Cloak, Ball of Lightning, Reflective Scales, stuns, any skill that decreases the number of hits you take in a given time increases the value of this set. There are also other skills that remove specific debuffs that aren't direct heals e.g. Reflective Plate.

I suppose one way to look at it is whether 400 spell power in whatever school of magic or removing 3 debuffs on a direct heal is better. If you remove 3 dots then you take 3 dots less damage over that 8 second interval. That might add up to 12k damage not applied. Which can be looked at as a passive HoT of 24k/2 over 8 seconds which is a pretty big number. Plus you probably have HoTs anyways. Because it doesn't work so well in a 1vx situation where you have 20 debuffs doesn't make it bad. It certainly looks good for burst recovery.

Escorpiao_Noturno · February 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

I would hope ZoS will still consider somewhere between 3 and 6 seconds as the final sweet spot when it goes live.

Otherwise you have failed at trying to change sets to become more frequently used.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

I Agree.

Like Desert Rose set, before it was every 1sec, now is every 4 seconds.
For me every 4seconds is a reasonable time.

And If a negative effect was removed this way, it could restore 300 Magicka

Chelo · February 2019

Ruckly wrote: »

Purging 3 debuffs every 8 seconds on a direct heal looks good to me. Ballista firebolt applies a debuff that can be removed with a direct heal that also tops you off. Dots can be removed with a direct heal. You get a heal and a purge one GCD every 8 seconds. 8 seconds is not a very long time. If you are playing with a light armor set you are probably mobile enough not to get hit continuously by debuffs. If you are getting hit continuously by debuffs in light armor then what difference does it make whether this set exists as is or never was an idea to begin with? If you think it is that bad don't use it. Shadow Cloak, Ball of Lightning, Reflective Scales, stuns, any skill that decreases the number of hits you take in a given time increases the value of this set. There are also other skills that remove specific debuffs that aren't direct heals e.g. Reflective Plate.

I suppose one way to look at it is whether 400 spell power in whatever school of magic or removing 3 debuffs on a direct heal is better. If you remove 3 dots then you take 3 dots less damage over that 8 second interval. That might add up to 12k damage not applied. Which can be looked at as a passive HoT of 24k/2 over 8 seconds which is a pretty big number. Plus you probably have HoTs anyways. Because it doesn't work so well in a 1vx situation where you have 20 debuffs doesn't make it bad. It certainly looks good for burst recovery.

Dude, the debuffs you removed, can be reapplied to yourself in the next second... You are not getting "debuff immunity" for 8 seconds...

Crown · February 2019

Chelo wrote: »

the debuffs you removed, can be reapplied to yourself in the next second... You are not getting "debuff immunity" for 8 seconds...

That's an amazing idea.. Negative effects removed via this process can not be re-applied for 10 seconds. There's value in something like that.

ToRelax · February 2019

Crown wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

the debuffs you removed, can be reapplied to yourself in the next second... You are not getting "debuff immunity" for 8 seconds...

That's an amazing idea.. Negative effects removed via this process can not be re-applied for 10 seconds. There's value in something like that.

It also goes directly against their reasoning for the change though, which was that you could continuously purge delayed burst effects, never getting them to apply.

FrankonPC · February 2019

Crown wrote: »

Here's a sample from a normal raid in combat vs another raid (about 15 of us vs an opposing 15 + about that same number of random others on both sides):

Column #1:Seconds in Combat / Column #2: Negative Effects on Me

1 0
2 0
3 0
4 4
5 7
6 9
7 14
8 9
9 7
10 11
11 14
12 9
13 9
14 4
15 14
16 18
17 17
18 17
19 8
20 5
21 9
22 11
23 10
24 15
25 14
26 8
27 5
28 7
29 7
30 6
31 1
32 0
33 0
34 6
35 11
36 19
37 18
38 19
39 17
40 12
41 7
42 16
43 0 DEAD
44 0 DEAD
45 0 DEAD

The average number of debuffs in combat ranges up to 19. There are periods of combat where for 4-5 seconds it gets close to 20, and for a solid fifteen seconds other than a lingering ritual, it didn't drop much below 10. This is normal for a fight, and I'm playing a MagPlar who can hit lingering ritual often enough!

Removing 3 negative effects every 8 seconds is completely useless. I understand that the whinging of the DoT/Bleed builds made this set change from what was REASONABLE for raids to use, but it's now completely wasted and will likely be used the same amount as before this patch (meaning not at all).

@ZOS_GinaBruno It is very apparent that the people making decisions are listening to the vocal minority of bleed/dot build duellists rather than actually looking at how negative effects occur in combat. There's a reason that raids need a purge-monkey (an honourable position of high sustain whose only job is to cast purge). This set, as it was before allowed that purge monkey to actually do something other than build for spamming one button.

If any set or skill can break an aspect of pvp, it shouldn't be introduced in that form. As it was curse eater was going to be a universally good defensive set for every class and build in the game, with broken mechanics against sorcs and mag dks.

just because this set wasn't so good that a few people in a raid could run it for their entire group doesn't mean the set wasn't good. The game developers are seemingly moving away from that universal group utility with the rapid nerfs. There probably could have been a middle ground that would have appeased both different sides of pvp(personally i like the idea of adding more major and minor debuffs allowing this set to remove those, without removing curse). Those changes involve a lot further of a look than a few weeks on the PTS though.

Sharee · February 2019

ToRelax wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

the debuffs you removed, can be reapplied to yourself in the next second... You are not getting "debuff immunity" for 8 seconds...

That's an amazing idea.. Negative effects removed via this process can not be re-applied for 10 seconds. There's value in something like that.

It also goes directly against their reasoning for the change though, which was that you could continuously purge delayed burst effects, never getting them to apply.

Unless you only apply 3 debuffs over the course of 8 seconds of fighting, the chance that the delayed burst effect will continuously be one of the three cleared is small.

ruikkarikun · February 2019

Don't buff this set. Firts balance what we have, and don't forget about performance issues.