Solo dungeon mode, please

Starlock · January 2019

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if ZoS completely ignored the feedback.

It's important to put things in perspective here.

If solo/story versions of dungeons isn't already in development, it is going to take a good long while before we see it. We're talking months. It's not something that is going to suddenly pop out of the woodwork for the next DLC dungeon release if they aren't working on it already.

As such, we won't really know the impact of the feedback until months from now. I don't doubt that the requests for a story mode have been heard by this point. It's now a question of whether or not such a game mode fits in with their design goals and whether or not the budget/time exists to make it happen (and when).

Jhalin · January 2019

This isn’t skyrim 2.0, this is a multiplayer game

Group content should be encouraged, and anything that discourages or disincentivising grouping should be dismissed

Sylmaranth · January 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

This isn’t skyrim 2.0, this is a multiplayer game

Group content should be encouraged, and anything that discourages or disincentivising grouping should be dismissed

No.

FluffyKitten · January 2019

I'm trying to solo everything on normal now, Its kinda annoying that they put mechanics in there that makes some of them impossible though, Unless I figure out a way to split my character in two.

If they are going to release solo dungeons than I would like a similar system like now, Normal and Hard, hard gives you gear while Normal gives you? idk, dust.

Would appreciate to see skill points and storyline but that of course means that you can't get that skill point on a rerun in the group version.

haloufe007 · January 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

This isn’t skyrim 2.0, this is a multiplayer game

Group content should be encouraged, and anything that discourages or disincentivising grouping should be dismissed

yes it is a multiplayer game, and il will stay a multiplayer game, for all 4 last DLC

after one year, dungeon DLC can have option of solo dungeon

InvictusApollo · January 2019

Starlock wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if ZoS completely ignored the feedback.

It's important to put things in perspective here.

If solo/story versions of dungeons isn't already in development, it is going to take a good long while before we see it. We're talking months. It's not something that is going to suddenly pop out of the woodwork for the next DLC dungeon release if they aren't working on it already.

As such, we won't really know the impact of the feedback until months from now. I don't doubt that the requests for a story mode have been heard by this point. It's now a question of whether or not such a game mode fits in with their design goals and whether or not the budget/time exists to make it happen (and when).

Give me your source code zos and I will do it in two weeks for some crowns

Colecovision · January 2019

So, in the update, they nerfed the guys giving the one shots, but left the bash mechanic on the first boss.

So that's a hard "no" on solo mode at any difficulty. And fwiw, I just snunk up behind the guys giving the one shot and gave them a one shot of my own. That's the kind of stuff that's fun solo.

MikaHR · January 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

This isn’t skyrim 2.0, this is a multiplayer game

Group content should be encouraged, and anything that discourages or disincentivising grouping should be dismissed

Here is what James Ohlen had to say about SWTOR after being game director (former, left mid 2018.) for SWTOR for over 10 years and SWTOR being on its last legs now:

"With Star Wars: The Old Republic I wish that I pushed a little bit more toward making it kind of Knights of The Republic online rather than “Star Wars World of Warcraft.”

And you can go play Wildstar, that game was made specifically for you....oh wait.

Linaleah · January 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

This isn’t skyrim 2.0, this is a multiplayer game

Group content should be encouraged, and anything that discourages or disincentivising grouping should be dismissed

there is a difference between encouraged and forced. multiplayer doesn't mean that EVERYTHING HAS to be done in a group.

there is a difference between optional solo mode with reduced rewards and disincentivising grouping which is ironically what current DLC dungeon difficulty is doing.

thought I just had on scaling to group size. don't we already have something like that in ESO? after a fashion. Dolmens 2.0 the more people there are, the more enemies spawn and as a consequence - you get better rewards through getting a named boss instead of a random unnamed mook. more or less. unless I'm misremembering? cause that content scaling to group size idea really has a TON of potential. including potentially making over-world quests more challenging while in a group

MikaHR · January 2019

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

all i can say is that it has become really difficult getting into specific dungeons unless you are a tank...for example sunday i was queued to get as dd into the new wolfhunter dungeons which i havent seen for 4 hours without luck...on a sunday afternoon in winter... i do think there needs to be a change, a solo dungeon mode or 2 players or something would be certainly interesting and also necessary for the future more dungeons and activities and fewer players otherwise could mean certain aspects of the game simply dying out

Best would be scalable from 1-4 players.

Uryel · January 2019

I wouldn't mind a solo mode, or a small team mode either. I mostly play in a duo with my wife and while we steamroll public dungeons, "true" dungeons ar another matter. Anything "2" or "veteran" isn't doable for us. So a "solo / duo" mode, just for the story, would be pretty awesome. I don't even care if there are zero rewards (except maybe some gold to pay for the repair bill !), because not having to run amok with rushers is the only way to enjoy the story.

crjs1 · January 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

This isn’t skyrim 2.0, this is a multiplayer game

Group content should be encouraged, and anything that discourages or disincentivising grouping should be dismissed

Just no

Casdha · January 2019

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if ZoS completely ignored the feedback.

Na I know they see it, they already closed at least one similar thread for redundancy.

Jayman1000 · January 2019

I agree that you should able to activate solo story mode for dungeons. You should get reduced loot quality and quantity, and the primary point being that you are there for the story and to actually read the dialogue and stay to watch the events play instead of rush click everything and pray the others dont leave until quest is completed...

That being said it should be possible for you to solo most normal dungeons at some point when you get strong enough. Non-dlc normal dungeons can be soloed fairly early on just use some standard crafted heavy sets and slot some healing abilities and it will be easy peasy. Respeccing your attributes and cp points can also be helpful if you need some extra protection. They will take considerable time to complete though without the help of others. DLC dungeons may provide a bigger challenge though, not sure if all can be soloed, unless you have uber gear and skills.

Pourekos · January 2019

Jayman1000 wrote: »

I agree that you should able to activate solo story mode for dungeons. You should get reduced loot quality and quantity, and the primary point being that you are there for the story and to actually read the dialogue and stay to watch the events play instead of rush click everything and pray the others dont leave until quest is completed...

That being said it should be possible for you to solo most normal dungeons at some point when you get strong enough. Non-dlc normal dungeons can be soloed fairly early on just use some standard crafted heavy sets and slot some healing abilities and it will be easy peasy. Respeccing your attributes and cp points can also be helpful if you need some extra protection. They will take considerable time to complete though without the help of others. DLC dungeons may provide a bigger challenge though, not sure if all can be soloed, unless you have uber gear and skills.

Both of the new DLC dungeons, that each has a component of the prologue for the new story, have at the first boss mechanics that require two players, as per the current PTS and forum posts. So someone can "git good" all they want, they still can't solo the new dungeons. Never mind that one of the two, at its current tuning, is also apparently the most difficult dungeon in the game.

Solo-mode is the only solution to this and it has been shown by many other MMOs previously. The only other option is to take all quests and story and present them OUT of the dungeons, but frankly I don't think anyone wants that

Leocaran · January 2019

Casdha wrote: »

Na I know they see it, they already closed at least one similar thread for redundancy.

That's moderators, they don't count.

Maybe we need some acknowledgement from some of the guys that talk and interact with devs. How are they called now? Community ambassadors/representatives? I'm lost with the new system and they are now totally silent and therefore invisible due to NDA. Have they seen the topic?

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Non-dlc normal dungeons can be soloed fairly early on just use some standard crafted heavy sets and slot some healing abilities and it will be easy peasy. Respeccing your attributes and cp points can also be helpful if you need some extra protection. They will take considerable time to complete though without the help of others.

I have to mention/remind again that even some non-dlc dungeons have (killing) mechanics not doable solo.

Numerikuu · January 2019

Pourekos wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

I agree that you should able to activate solo story mode for dungeons. You should get reduced loot quality and quantity, and the primary point being that you are there for the story and to actually read the dialogue and stay to watch the events play instead of rush click everything and pray the others dont leave until quest is completed...

That being said it should be possible for you to solo most normal dungeons at some point when you get strong enough. Non-dlc normal dungeons can be soloed fairly early on just use some standard crafted heavy sets and slot some healing abilities and it will be easy peasy. Respeccing your attributes and cp points can also be helpful if you need some extra protection. They will take considerable time to complete though without the help of others. DLC dungeons may provide a bigger challenge though, not sure if all can be soloed, unless you have uber gear and skills.

Both of the new DLC dungeons, that each has a component of the prologue for the new story, have at the first boss mechanics that require two player], as per the current PTS and forum posts. So someone can "git good" all they want, they still can't solo the new dungeons. Never mind that one of the two, at its current tuning, is also apparently the most difficult dungeon in the game.

Solo-mode is the only solution to this and it has been shown by many other MMOs previously. The only other option is to take all quests and story and present them OUT of the dungeons, but frankly I don't think anyone wants that

I'm so tired of this *** mechanic in dungeons. So, so *** tired. And in dungeons with main story gated behind them. For *** sake Zenimax

sp0ck · January 2019

The health of ESO's endgame is important, and content like dungeons encourages people to try new things. It could end up being that one of you actually enjoys dungeon content, and goes on to participate in it.

Allowing folks to do everything solo is damaging to ESO as an 'MMORPG'

Leocaran · January 2019

Numerikuu wrote: »

I'm so tired of this *** mechanic in dungeons. So, so *** tired. And in dungeons with main story gated behind them. For *** sake Zenimax

Actually I think they are a good thing for group content. Something more interesting then just taunt-dps-heal and demands some actual reaction and group work.
It's not necessary for a way to complete group content solo to exist.
But.
There must be a reliable way to do dungeon quests solo and enjoy them and all other work of designers, actors and artists. Story/solo mode seems the easiest way.

faerigirl · January 2019

The Elder Scrolls were single player. Lots of lore, music, crafting among other things.

I like the idea of solo dungeons but not for no reward. I work really tough hours, I live on the east coast so grouping is nigh on impossible for me. I went to EU for a while and had some luck there but things turned a couple of years ago and now when I'm outed as American... let's just say that I'm back on the NA server.

I've played since September 2013 and have never stepped foot in a trial and only have done a hand full of dungeons. Public dungeons I can mostly solo.

So yes, I would like to see soloable dungeons. Make it a choice of 1 to 4 players. That way the people that are adamant about this being an MMO so no to solo don't have a reason to be upset.

TokenIntellect · January 2019

sp0ck wrote: »

The health of ESO's endgame is important, and content like dungeons encourages people to try new things. It could end up being that one of you actually enjoys dungeon content, and goes on to participate in it.

Allowing folks to do everything solo is damaging to ESO as an 'MMORPG'

How is expanding the player base and expanding access to content damaging? Is the value of gameplay determined by scarcity? It's not like solo players are going to somehow use up the dungeons or deplete the pool of people willing to be in a PuG. We're talking about people who are likely never going to experience the dungeons without a solo/story mode.

Without a story mode, what do you think those players do when they run out of story? Let me tell you, it's not running 4-man dungeons. With a story mode, you're going to get more people spending more time playing more of the game. How could that be a bad thing?

Encourage is also very different from require. Midyear Mayhem encouraged people to try PVP, Undaunted Celebration already encouraged people to try the dungeons. I did both and, you know what, I still hate PVP and I still hate running through random dungeons at light speed. I don't mind that ZOS wanted to encourage me to try. I do mind that they're running the massive, year-long, interconnected story through dungeons with mechanics that cannot be soloed.

Olith · January 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

This isn’t skyrim 2.0, this is a multiplayer game

Group content should be encouraged, and anything that discourages or disincentivising grouping should be dismissed

Why don't you explain that to the developers? They made the main campaign for the whole game, the one where you fight Molag Bal in the end, solo and solo only.

Chirru · January 2019

I am amazed and puzzled why people think that MMO's have something to do with....people should play in Groups... Or, People should play PvP?

Sorry PvP players. I really have nothing against you as long as you do not bother me.

There are more than 7 billion People in the Real World. (if I compare this to a really big MMO) How many do you really relate too? (sarcasm: how many do you even know...hehe).

Even at work...honestly...how many do you work in a group with? And more importantly...How many do you WANT to work with together in a group? Do you do work together with others only for the reward (money)?

That is what (in my opinion) grouping in an MMO for most players means. Grouping gets you more. It is greed plain and simple.

Of course...there are those who work and play with friends and colleagues they know and trust, so as to achieve a common goal...but (my opinion) the overwhelming majority of people in the Real World and players in games does not.

And...by the way...it appears that there is an attitude of; If you do not play as I want you to play...I do not like you and verbally (emotionally) abuse you. It is sort of...In-group verbal PvP. (in the real world it is called harassment and bullying).

(in my opinion) The idea that people who play MMO Games have to group... or should group... or ought to group... or should be somehow coerced (maybe forced) into grouping ...or should miss out on game-content and rewards...because they do not group...

Is LUNATIC !

mairwen85 · January 2019

@Chirru

Do you have to play with others to qualify a game as MMO? Uhm... no.

But let's digress for a moment.

Grouping is important. It's a part of our culture, and our evolution. There are mechanisms and dynamics at play regardless of how or how often we group, or pair -- or not at all.

The question of would people group up for content if the rewards were fewer, or not at all. I think yes. Thing is, completion in itself is also a form of reward. What's really interesting is the interpersonal, fluid manipulation and assertion of expectation. Consciously, or accidentally, every one of us does this; in our personal life, professional life, digital life, and any other reality we place ourselves.

Read This -- it's a fascinating study of this dynamic.

The question 'should group activity be forced on the individual' is an interesting one. Especially when we consider expectations in terms of our own vs those of others. How do you ensure yours outweigh the rest? Is it beneficial to accept the group, even if forced? I personally believe it shouldn't be, and that it rarely is -- the choice is with the player.

ESO does not force groups on anyone. If you don't want to group, you don't. Could you miss out on something? Possibly. Is it worth missing? Full circle -> is it beneficial, and does it meet expectation? If yes, you either group, or manipulate an alternative (hang on... there are a few threads doing just that).

TokenIntellect · January 2019

Grouping may be important, but much of the grouping in ESO is ad hoc and temporary (if you're a game theory person, this would be referred to as non-cooperative). When you notice someone else on the same quest, when the whole of Vukhel Guard (or seemingly all of Alik'r) converge on a dolmen and join in, it's very different from forming groups for the purpose of questing or farming dolmens/geysers. In game terms, you don't even have to "group" with them to benefit. It's likely that the dragon world events will be like this.

This is important because we can assume that people who group for some rational purpose (cooperative) have at the least an implied contract and act strategically to maximize their benefit. So if it were possible to find enough people who shared the same rational purpose (ie, story), then cooperative grouping should work to everyone's benefit. As has already been pointed out, however, that is logistically difficult if not impossible in pragmatic terms.

In game theory terms, it also falls apart because there are at least two (and arguably many more) best-response equilibria— some want to hack and slash, some are chasing the meta, some are wasting time, some want to see the scenery, some want story, and on, and on. If we say that story is the the maximal benefit for many of us then it is entirely logical that we either pursue like-minded groups or manipulate an alternative— like a solo-mode for dungeons. And if our experience gives us what is essentially perfect knowledge that story groups are an untenable solution, isn't advocating for a solo-mode precisely what game theory would predict?

And still all of this presumes that people are being rational actors when randomness and the non-rational (and occasionally irrational) are all acting at once. Game theory is fascinating and really useful in rules-based scenarios, but when you find yourself dealing with real people who do not always behave strategically, you could also look at this through æsthetics or ethics. Is it ethical to gate content as a reward for prescribed behavior? How do one-shot mechanics help/hinder players' appreciation for the story and the virtual world of the game?

Edited to add: This post from the PTS forum helps to answer both of those questions.

But even if we stick with game theory, but there's also the matter of decisions being both in- and out-of-game. ESO may not technically force groups, but they are attempting to coerce people to group ("If you do not do the Dungeons, that's fine, some other adventurers helped him... but if you did, its an awesome pay off[...]"). Yet, choosing to group or not group when coerced in the game is not the only choice. You can choose not to pay for ESO+ (or purchase the DLCs separately) because the dungeon DLCs require a coercive choice. You can choose to not buy Elsweyr because the storyline intersects those DLCs and will remain incomplete without them. You can choose to sit out the whole year or even stop playing entirely.

Does ZOS really want to push people to the point where the choice is to play disaffected or to give up on the game?

mairwen85 · January 2019

That's the crux of it. Unfortunately. Ball in ZOS Park...

You put the case more eloquent than I.

Tyralbin · January 2019

Really good idea but one thing would like to see is still being able to get the lorebooks.

shadyjane62 · January 2019

Yes please. OMG! Yes Please.

p00tx · January 2019

I think this is a fantastic idea and would solve a lot of problems for a lot of people using the dungeon finder tool. Very cool!

Joosef_Kivikilpi · January 2019

myskyrim26 wrote: »

Please READ the post before posting commets, not just title

And again. PLEASE READ before commenting. PLEASE.

Dear ZOS,
A lot of lore already hidden in 4-player dungeons. It is even worse for the Wrathstone dungeons, as they are a part of the story. Please make a solo dungeon mode for players, who are not able to do dungeons in a group.
Let this solo dungeon mode be purely story oriented: no sets, no motifs, no achivements, no skillpoints - nothing that could make this mode a kind of a cheating one. Nothing to grind. It should not be a part of Undaunted pledges and whatever else - juts a story to do.

To all who want to post some answer like "find friends", "find a guild", "learn to play", please read this: I play since 2016. I tried hard to find people like me to do dungeond for a story. And here are the results:
1. We are 4 and we all want to do a dungeon for a story. I'm a tank. Other players are: a healer who sees a restoration staff for the first time and 2 DDs running around a dungeon like mad chickens. These people never did dungeond before, and will never practice - they are focused on quests only. They don't want to spend their time learning how to play in a group.
2. I found 3 people who agree to change their playstile. We live in different countries - thus it is hard to set a time for dungeon runs or practice. More - even if we all 4 are online, these players are busy doing something. As, you know, there are a lot things to do. And the most bad thing: I can be forced to log off at any moment because of my job.
3. Many players who want to do dungeon stories refuse to change anything. As a master crafter, I offer them free sets, food, glyphs. I try to explain their skills gently. I try to explain dungeon mechanics. But solo players are SOLO players. They don't want someone to be a leader. They don't want to learn a crazy rotation piano, they don't listen to a team mechanics. "I'll go see what's there!" - types my teammate in chat. I start typing "No" in respond, but the teammate is already dead, and mobs are running at us.
4. Guildmates do agree to do a dungeon with me. Sometimes they even give some time for me to make screenshots of dialogues. Sometimes. But the rest of the time they just rush through a dungeon. I don't want to rush! Dungeons are beautiful, I want to enjoy them! I don't want to make dialogue screenshots, I want to LISTEN to them!
5. I tried to do dungeons solo with a petsorc. My results: Fungal Grotto 1 and another "beginners" dungeon with a spider boss. I know - some players can do a lot of dungeons solo. Not me, unfortunately.

I assure you - I've made every effort to find players like me. A lot of people want to do dungeon stories, and it is impossible to become a team. Please @ZOS, give us a possibility to enjoy dungeons!
@ZOS_GinaBruno

I think it would be beneficial to allow players to redo the quest for the story with no reward at the end, just so they can go back for the story and remember, especially with Tharaaya making a comeback from Volenfell for Wrathstone. My wife did dungeons as she was leveling up, but we were so focused on helping her get leveled that she didn't retain much of the story. It'd be awesome to have the choice to run the quest again with no reward.