exeeter702 wrote: »@Morgha_Kul i fully realize i may come off as a real piece of work when i say this but....
Have you ever stopped and considered that perhaps it is your own inadequacies that could use some improvement? Because i promise you, this right here...
"All content should be playable by all players. Those with better gear should find it easier, but never trivial. Those with weak gear should find it more difficult, but never impossible"
Is already a very real truth that exists in ESO so long as you are willing to, at the very least, put forth a basic genuine effort. Not all players are created equal and not all tiers of content in a game of this genre are accessible to all types of players. That is just the reality of things. Lowering the bar in a manner that you have suggested in this thread would result in a pretty awful experience for a large portion of the player base.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I don't think OP understands how MMOs work, at all. This isn't a linear game of Zelda or Final Fantasy, where your only goal is to mash your way to the end, just so you can start again.
To OP: I can understand not wanting to go through the "hassle" (or to some of us, the awesome challenge) of making the climb to endgame, but I don't understand why you want the bar lowered so much, even at the cost of everyone else's enjoyment. This isn't a play-and-toss type of game. It's an ever evolving, ever expanding, open-world game where anyone can come find something to entertain themselves, no matter their interests, skill sets, or abilities. In fact, there is so much to do, the vast majority never completes every available achievement. This is more than just a game. It's a community, and that means everyone gets a place here, including end-gamers who also need a place to enjoy themselves in this game. We enjoy the competitiveness and the difficulty because it's an accomplishment when someone works that hard for something and then achieves it.
You don't have to "get it", but you don't have to make statements aimed at taking it away either.
I don't think you guys quite get what I mean. That's my fault, it's kind of hard to explain.
As it stands, I can play pretty well any of the overland content with little difficulty. I do the found quests, the story quests and so on, and can accomplish them without too much trouble. That doesn't mean I can't lose. There's still the possibility that I might get overwhelmed if I'm careless, or if I forget to pay attention to my stamina or something. However, there is NO WAY I can possibly compete in PvP. There is NO WAY I can do a Veteran dungeon. Again, this is a character who is decently equipped. That it's essentially impossible for me to compete or contribute in a meaningful way in much of the game's content suggests to me that there's a problem. The gulf is just too wide.
All content should be playable by all players. Those with better gear should find it easier, but never trivial. Those with weak gear should find it more difficult, but never impossible. I know, it's a very fine line to walk, and in my experience no MMO has achieved it.
The problem is that every time I've seen this kind of thing in the past, the devs inevitably start catering to the people with the bleeding edge gear, and that leaves less well equipped players unable to play.
I'll give you a current example: Star Trek Online.
In this game, I was flying a shiny new Tier 6 ship. That's the top of the line. A science ship, much of its equipment was top of the line at the time. A few things were not, but it was pretty good overall. However, despite this, the ship was not capable of producing the extremely high dps numbers many of the combat ships were capable of when players twinked out the ships with all the bleeding edge gear. The disparity was very like what we see here in ESO.
But, that was fine, I was able to play the game perfectly well. There were a few things that were more challenging (like the Iconians, if you're familiar with the game), but most things were pretty easy.
Then came the Tzenkethi. A new race added to the game, they were designed by the devs so the high dps players could be challenged. The result was that players like me were completely unable to fight them. New players were even WORSE off. I at least could survive, though I'd never be able to destroy them (where I would routinely fight off 4-8 enemy ships, I was stuck fighting ONE of these Tzenkethi ships for over an hour and made no progress), they were unable to destroy me either (though again, if I was careless, they might have done).
This is the problem. Because the game allows players to get to such high dps, it makes content trivial. The devs respond by making new content harder... eventually to the point where it's more than anyone but the dps crowd can handle. I don't think that's a positive progression, so when I see this dps disparity, I worry.
But, the game is still fine. There's lots of stuff I can't do, but there's still lots that I CAN do. I'll never PvP (I don't enjoy it), but I would have liked to do some of the dungeons and things. I suppose I'll just have to not do those things, since I'm not going to ruin the rest of the game for myself so that I can.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »So, I was visiting a guildmate's house, and he had this target dummy (the Precursor). Just for the fun of it, I decided to attack it, and when it was defeated, I got a message that told me my DPS. This came as a surprise, but I'm not sure what is considered good, what is considered adequate, what is considered bad... So, I don't know where I stand.
In case you're curious, I did 3265.0 DPS in 1m39s with my Restoration Staff and Templar spells... Mind you, I was just fooling around, I'm sure I could do more.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »@Morgha_Kul i fully realize i may come off as a real piece of work when i say this but....
Have you ever stopped and considered that perhaps it is your own inadequacies that could use some improvement? Because i promise you, this right here...
"All content should be playable by all players. Those with better gear should find it easier, but never trivial. Those with weak gear should find it more difficult, but never impossible"
Is already a very real truth that exists in ESO so long as you are willing to, at the very least, put forth a basic genuine effort. Not all players are created equal and not all tiers of content in a game of this genre are accessible to all types of players. That is just the reality of things. Lowering the bar in a manner that you have suggested in this thread would result in a pretty awful experience for a large portion of the player base.
I'm not really suggesting lowering the bar, exactly, just suggesting that perhaps the ends should be closer together.
I'm also not saying I can't get my dps up to that level, just that I really don't want to... because while I'll be able to do the top level stuff, all else will be trivial, and therefore not any fun. Thus, I'm content to remain more or less where I am.
I just worry about the slippery slope... because I've seen it so often before.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »@Morgha_Kul i fully realize i may come off as a real piece of work when i say this but....
Have you ever stopped and considered that perhaps it is your own inadequacies that could use some improvement? Because i promise you, this right here...
"All content should be playable by all players. Those with better gear should find it easier, but never trivial. Those with weak gear should find it more difficult, but never impossible"
Is already a very real truth that exists in ESO so long as you are willing to, at the very least, put forth a basic genuine effort. Not all players are created equal and not all tiers of content in a game of this genre are accessible to all types of players. That is just the reality of things. Lowering the bar in a manner that you have suggested in this thread would result in a pretty awful experience for a large portion of the player base.
I'm not really suggesting lowering the bar, exactly, just suggesting that perhaps the ends should be closer together.
I'm also not saying I can't get my dps up to that level, just that I really don't want to... because while I'll be able to do the top level stuff, all else will be trivial, and therefore not any fun. Thus, I'm content to remain more or less where I am.
I just worry about the slippery slope... because I've seen it so often before.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »@Morgha_Kul i fully realize i may come off as a real piece of work when i say this but....
Have you ever stopped and considered that perhaps it is your own inadequacies that could use some improvement? Because i promise you, this right here...
"All content should be playable by all players. Those with better gear should find it easier, but never trivial. Those with weak gear should find it more difficult, but never impossible"
Is already a very real truth that exists in ESO so long as you are willing to, at the very least, put forth a basic genuine effort. Not all players are created equal and not all tiers of content in a game of this genre are accessible to all types of players. That is just the reality of things. Lowering the bar in a manner that you have suggested in this thread would result in a pretty awful experience for a large portion of the player base.
I'm not really suggesting lowering the bar, exactly, just suggesting that perhaps the ends should be closer together.
I'm also not saying I can't get my dps up to that level, just that I really don't want to... because while I'll be able to do the top level stuff, all else will be trivial, and therefore not any fun. Thus, I'm content to remain more or less where I am.
I just worry about the slippery slope... because I've seen it so often before.
pat_thetic wrote: »There is no "slippery slope" either. The game caters very well to both, a beginner/role player/ casual that enjoys questing the overland content and doing delves, to the end gamers pushing leaderboard scores with the newest/hardest DLC content. Even the in between characters can be challenged with the arenas and DLC dungeons
Morgha_Kul wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »@Morgha_Kul i fully realize i may come off as a real piece of work when i say this but....
Have you ever stopped and considered that perhaps it is your own inadequacies that could use some improvement? Because i promise you, this right here...
"All content should be playable by all players. Those with better gear should find it easier, but never trivial. Those with weak gear should find it more difficult, but never impossible"
Is already a very real truth that exists in ESO so long as you are willing to, at the very least, put forth a basic genuine effort. Not all players are created equal and not all tiers of content in a game of this genre are accessible to all types of players. That is just the reality of things. Lowering the bar in a manner that you have suggested in this thread would result in a pretty awful experience for a large portion of the player base.
I'm not really suggesting lowering the bar, exactly, just suggesting that perhaps the ends should be closer together.
I'm also not saying I can't get my dps up to that level, just that I really don't want to... because while I'll be able to do the top level stuff, all else will be trivial, and therefore not any fun. Thus, I'm content to remain more or less where I am.
I just worry about the slippery slope... because I've seen it so often before.
I'm confused. Do you want to do higher level content or not?
If your answer is yes, you want to be able to do that with minor effort - just change a few pieces of gear/jewelry/weapons (I'm assuming that you do have the skills to do so. I'm not talking about the skills on the bar, I'm referring to skills that you - the person pushing buttons have).
Morgha_Kul wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »@Morgha_Kul i fully realize i may come off as a real piece of work when i say this but....
Have you ever stopped and considered that perhaps it is your own inadequacies that could use some improvement? Because i promise you, this right here...
"All content should be playable by all players. Those with better gear should find it easier, but never trivial. Those with weak gear should find it more difficult, but never impossible"
Is already a very real truth that exists in ESO so long as you are willing to, at the very least, put forth a basic genuine effort. Not all players are created equal and not all tiers of content in a game of this genre are accessible to all types of players. That is just the reality of things. Lowering the bar in a manner that you have suggested in this thread would result in a pretty awful experience for a large portion of the player base.
I'm not really suggesting lowering the bar, exactly, just suggesting that perhaps the ends should be closer together.
I'm also not saying I can't get my dps up to that level, just that I really don't want to... because while I'll be able to do the top level stuff, all else will be trivial, and therefore not any fun. Thus, I'm content to remain more or less where I am.
I just worry about the slippery slope... because I've seen it so often before.
This is an incorrect assumption. I do weekly vet hardmode trials, and can clear almost all content in this game, but I still enjoy running a new toon through older content from time to time. When a group and I have a particularly grueling run at something, and maybe it doesn't go well, I always queue us up to do a normal Vaults of Madness run afterward, because it's still my favorite base game content and it's fun and refreshing to do something like that from time to time. I always like to end every run on a positive note.
Also, if the ends are brought closer together, that by definition means lowering the bar. That would spell the end of any sort of progression in this game and resign the rest of us to a low level of mediocre game play only because someone "didn't want to" work to improve themselves.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »pat_thetic wrote: »There is no "slippery slope" either. The game caters very well to both, a beginner/role player/ casual that enjoys questing the overland content and doing delves, to the end gamers pushing leaderboard scores with the newest/hardest DLC content. Even the in between characters can be challenged with the arenas and DLC dungeons
The slippery slope I refer to is something I've seen over and over for years. They may not yet have fallen into the trap, but the trap is set, and I'm simply worried they'll spring it sooner or later. As I explained before, the concern is that, in order to give the high end players stuff to do, they start making everything in the game for that level of dps... which will then exclude everyone else. I explained how this happened in STO, but I've seen it in so many other games.Morgha_Kul wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »@Morgha_Kul i fully realize i may come off as a real piece of work when i say this but....
Have you ever stopped and considered that perhaps it is your own inadequacies that could use some improvement? Because i promise you, this right here...
"All content should be playable by all players. Those with better gear should find it easier, but never trivial. Those with weak gear should find it more difficult, but never impossible"
Is already a very real truth that exists in ESO so long as you are willing to, at the very least, put forth a basic genuine effort. Not all players are created equal and not all tiers of content in a game of this genre are accessible to all types of players. That is just the reality of things. Lowering the bar in a manner that you have suggested in this thread would result in a pretty awful experience for a large portion of the player base.
I'm not really suggesting lowering the bar, exactly, just suggesting that perhaps the ends should be closer together.
I'm also not saying I can't get my dps up to that level, just that I really don't want to... because while I'll be able to do the top level stuff, all else will be trivial, and therefore not any fun. Thus, I'm content to remain more or less where I am.
I just worry about the slippery slope... because I've seen it so often before.
I'm confused. Do you want to do higher level content or not?
If your answer is yes, you want to be able to do that with minor effort - just change a few pieces of gear/jewelry/weapons (I'm assuming that you do have the skills to do so. I'm not talking about the skills on the bar, I'm referring to skills that you - the person pushing buttons have).
I would like to do higher level content. However, I don't want to do it at the expense of being able to enjoy the lower level content.Morgha_Kul wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »@Morgha_Kul i fully realize i may come off as a real piece of work when i say this but....
Have you ever stopped and considered that perhaps it is your own inadequacies that could use some improvement? Because i promise you, this right here...
"All content should be playable by all players. Those with better gear should find it easier, but never trivial. Those with weak gear should find it more difficult, but never impossible"
Is already a very real truth that exists in ESO so long as you are willing to, at the very least, put forth a basic genuine effort. Not all players are created equal and not all tiers of content in a game of this genre are accessible to all types of players. That is just the reality of things. Lowering the bar in a manner that you have suggested in this thread would result in a pretty awful experience for a large portion of the player base.
I'm not really suggesting lowering the bar, exactly, just suggesting that perhaps the ends should be closer together.
I'm also not saying I can't get my dps up to that level, just that I really don't want to... because while I'll be able to do the top level stuff, all else will be trivial, and therefore not any fun. Thus, I'm content to remain more or less where I am.
I just worry about the slippery slope... because I've seen it so often before.
This is an incorrect assumption. I do weekly vet hardmode trials, and can clear almost all content in this game, but I still enjoy running a new toon through older content from time to time. When a group and I have a particularly grueling run at something, and maybe it doesn't go well, I always queue us up to do a normal Vaults of Madness run afterward, because it's still my favorite base game content and it's fun and refreshing to do something like that from time to time. I always like to end every run on a positive note.
Also, if the ends are brought closer together, that by definition means lowering the bar. That would spell the end of any sort of progression in this game and resign the rest of us to a low level of mediocre game play only because someone "didn't want to" work to improve themselves.
You are doing content on two different characters... precisely because the lower level content is trivial to one of them. Your Vet Hardmode character will face no challenge at all from normal content. You're saying that bringing the ends of the bar closer together would make everything mediocre. I'm saying I just don't want anything to be trivial, but also not overwhelming. EVERYTHING should present some kind of challenge.
In my view, your Vet Hardmode character should find normal content easier, but still a challenge if you're not careful; and at the same time be capable of the Vet Hardmode stuff... while MY normal character should find a challenge in the normal stuff, but not be completely incapable of contributing to the Vet Hardmode content. I don't see that as everything being mediocre, I see that as everything being interesting.
Also, as a side point, characters with gigantic dps can often spoil things for OTHER characters. I've been busy enjoying spelunking in a cave or ruin, only to have everything in the delve wiped out in the blink of an eye before I can even move. Now, it doesn't happen often, but the point is that excessive dps can also affect other people's gameplay.
In any case, my original question has been answered, and there has been ample discussion now to elaborate on my point, so I believe I'll stop here.
Pay no attention to these guys who say 45k dsp is normal. It may be for them, but in reality, 99% of players will never achieve that. And don't let them tell you that 25K is required for normal trials. I frequently lead normal trials with groups whose average is less than 15k. And while it takes us a bit longer, we finish just fine and have a lot of fun.
What's "good" is totally subjective. If your dps is good enough to have fun, it's good.
That being said, if you get to the point where a higher dsp becomes something meaningful to you, you'll need to learn about light attack weaving, animation cancellation, full up time on AOE's and DOT's, use of ultimates, resource management, and LOTS of practice.
Lower dps will limit the content available. Now whether that content is relevant to you, is another matter.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »I would like to do higher level content. However, I don't want to do it at the expense of being able to enjoy the lower level content.
Grianasteri wrote: »In my experience (several years playing ESO on and off, CP600 ish, mainly PVE content)...
DPS is only half the story.
I have no where near 30k, or even 20k for that matter, on most of my characters (last time I checked), but I can do most content up to and including vet dungeons and normal trials.
While I make my builds to work and put thought into that, the main focus for me is making fun builds, often themed around an element/damage type - fire/ice/shock/poison/physical etc.
So the point is I dont make max/min builds or focus on the current meta, as others have said you need to put hard work into achieving the big DPS numbers.. But I have several characters that can still do most (not all) "end game" content.
Cheers
Elijah_Crow wrote: »I don’t mean for this to sound harsh, but someone is carrying you. They are making up for your deficit by pulling higher numbers themselves or they are contributing a large amount of time with repeated tries to get bosses down, etc.
I personally try to pull strong numbers and have worked hard to get to my 32k DPS in order to be able to accomplish harder content with friends who are just not interested in min maxing. I know what I signed up for but it would surely take some pressure off if they invested a little time in getting their DPS a little higher. A little effort goes a long way and would make runs a more fun and less stressful.
I'm sorry to break it to you, but no, your character is NOT decently equiped. You are wearing warmaiden, a magicka damage set, which isn't even good in pve because it doesn't buff flame and lightning staff abilities and heavy + light attacks. On top of that you wear defiler, which is a stamina set. No offense to you personally because most of us have been there, but the best thing is to be honest: your build is trash. If you want to be able to do at least 20k dps (this isn't hard) you need to refrain from making assumptions like "I am decently equiped because I wear cp 160 gear", but in stead focus on learning and looking for the right information to improve.Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I don't think OP understands how MMOs work, at all. This isn't a linear game of Zelda or Final Fantasy, where your only goal is to mash your way to the end, just so you can start again.
To OP: I can understand not wanting to go through the "hassle" (or to some of us, the awesome challenge) of making the climb to endgame, but I don't understand why you want the bar lowered so much, even at the cost of everyone else's enjoyment. This isn't a play-and-toss type of game. It's an ever evolving, ever expanding, open-world game where anyone can come find something to entertain themselves, no matter their interests, skill sets, or abilities. In fact, there is so much to do, the vast majority never completes every available achievement. This is more than just a game. It's a community, and that means everyone gets a place here, including end-gamers who also need a place to enjoy themselves in this game. We enjoy the competitiveness and the difficulty because it's an accomplishment when someone works that hard for something and then achieves it.
You don't have to "get it", but you don't have to make statements aimed at taking it away either.
However, there is NO WAY I can possibly compete in PvP. There is NO WAY I can do a Veteran dungeon. Again, this is a character who is decently equipped. That it's essentially impossible for me to compete or contribute in a meaningful way in much of the game's content suggests to me that there's a problem. The gulf is just too wide.
I'm sorry to break it to you, but no, your character is NOT decently equiped. You are wearing warmaiden, a magicka damage set, which isn't even good in pve because it doesn't buff flame and lightning staff abilities and heavy + light attacks. On top of that you wear defiler, which is a stamina set. No offense to you personally because most of us have been there, but the best thing is to be honest: your build is trash. If you want to be able to do at least 20k dps (this isn't hard) you need to refrain from making assumptions like "I am decently equiped because I wear cp 160 gear", but in stead focus on learning and looking for the right information to improve.Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I don't think OP understands how MMOs work, at all. This isn't a linear game of Zelda or Final Fantasy, where your only goal is to mash your way to the end, just so you can start again.
To OP: I can understand not wanting to go through the "hassle" (or to some of us, the awesome challenge) of making the climb to endgame, but I don't understand why you want the bar lowered so much, even at the cost of everyone else's enjoyment. This isn't a play-and-toss type of game. It's an ever evolving, ever expanding, open-world game where anyone can come find something to entertain themselves, no matter their interests, skill sets, or abilities. In fact, there is so much to do, the vast majority never completes every available achievement. This is more than just a game. It's a community, and that means everyone gets a place here, including end-gamers who also need a place to enjoy themselves in this game. We enjoy the competitiveness and the difficulty because it's an accomplishment when someone works that hard for something and then achieves it.
You don't have to "get it", but you don't have to make statements aimed at taking it away either.
However, there is NO WAY I can possibly compete in PvP. There is NO WAY I can do a Veteran dungeon. Again, this is a character who is decently equipped. That it's essentially impossible for me to compete or contribute in a meaningful way in much of the game's content suggests to me that there's a problem. The gulf is just too wide.
I will tell you this: No matter what you may believe or find absurd, rotation is EVERYTHING. A noob with top tier gear combination and perfect cp could get 10k dps if he plays like a fool. Yet in the hands of a skilled player who knows how to line up buffs, keep these buffs up and perform a good rotation, you can get 40k dps easily even with making many mistakes. This can be inflated to 50k + on flawless rotations.
It is time to stop living in disbelief. This is reality.
I'm sorry to break it to you, but no, your character is NOT decently equiped. You are wearing warmaiden, a magicka damage set, which isn't even good in pve because it doesn't buff flame and lightning staff abilities and heavy + light attacks. On top of that you wear defiler, which is a stamina set. No offense to you personally because most of us have been there, but the best thing is to be honest: your build is trash. If you want to be able to do at least 20k dps (this isn't hard) you need to refrain from making assumptions like "I am decently equiped because I wear cp 160 gear", but in stead focus on learning and looking for the right information to improve.Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I don't think OP understands how MMOs work, at all. This isn't a linear game of Zelda or Final Fantasy, where your only goal is to mash your way to the end, just so you can start again.
To OP: I can understand not wanting to go through the "hassle" (or to some of us, the awesome challenge) of making the climb to endgame, but I don't understand why you want the bar lowered so much, even at the cost of everyone else's enjoyment. This isn't a play-and-toss type of game. It's an ever evolving, ever expanding, open-world game where anyone can come find something to entertain themselves, no matter their interests, skill sets, or abilities. In fact, there is so much to do, the vast majority never completes every available achievement. This is more than just a game. It's a community, and that means everyone gets a place here, including end-gamers who also need a place to enjoy themselves in this game. We enjoy the competitiveness and the difficulty because it's an accomplishment when someone works that hard for something and then achieves it.
You don't have to "get it", but you don't have to make statements aimed at taking it away either.
However, there is NO WAY I can possibly compete in PvP. There is NO WAY I can do a Veteran dungeon. Again, this is a character who is decently equipped. That it's essentially impossible for me to compete or contribute in a meaningful way in much of the game's content suggests to me that there's a problem. The gulf is just too wide.
I will tell you this: No matter what you may believe or find absurd, rotation is EVERYTHING. A noob with top tier gear combination and perfect cp could get 10k dps if he plays like a fool. Yet in the hands of a skilled player who knows how to line up buffs, keep these buffs up and perform a good rotation, you can get 40k dps easily even with making many mistakes. This can be inflated to 50k + on flawless rotations.
It is time to stop living in disbelief. This is reality.
Elijah_Crow wrote: »Easy entry, more challenging to master?
Seems like a great design to me.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »I'm sorry to break it to you, but no, your character is NOT decently equiped. You are wearing warmaiden, a magicka damage set, which isn't even good in pve because it doesn't buff flame and lightning staff abilities and heavy + light attacks. On top of that you wear defiler, which is a stamina set. No offense to you personally because most of us have been there, but the best thing is to be honest: your build is trash. If you want to be able to do at least 20k dps (this isn't hard) you need to refrain from making assumptions like "I am decently equiped because I wear cp 160 gear", but in stead focus on learning and looking for the right information to improve.Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I don't think OP understands how MMOs work, at all. This isn't a linear game of Zelda or Final Fantasy, where your only goal is to mash your way to the end, just so you can start again.
To OP: I can understand not wanting to go through the "hassle" (or to some of us, the awesome challenge) of making the climb to endgame, but I don't understand why you want the bar lowered so much, even at the cost of everyone else's enjoyment. This isn't a play-and-toss type of game. It's an ever evolving, ever expanding, open-world game where anyone can come find something to entertain themselves, no matter their interests, skill sets, or abilities. In fact, there is so much to do, the vast majority never completes every available achievement. This is more than just a game. It's a community, and that means everyone gets a place here, including end-gamers who also need a place to enjoy themselves in this game. We enjoy the competitiveness and the difficulty because it's an accomplishment when someone works that hard for something and then achieves it.
You don't have to "get it", but you don't have to make statements aimed at taking it away either.
However, there is NO WAY I can possibly compete in PvP. There is NO WAY I can do a Veteran dungeon. Again, this is a character who is decently equipped. That it's essentially impossible for me to compete or contribute in a meaningful way in much of the game's content suggests to me that there's a problem. The gulf is just too wide.
I will tell you this: No matter what you may believe or find absurd, rotation is EVERYTHING. A noob with top tier gear combination and perfect cp could get 10k dps if he plays like a fool. Yet in the hands of a skilled player who knows how to line up buffs, keep these buffs up and perform a good rotation, you can get 40k dps easily even with making many mistakes. This can be inflated to 50k + on flawless rotations.
It is time to stop living in disbelief. This is reality.
You see, the thing is, I just want to PLAY. To me, decently equipped means I have two full sets of gear, all of it giving me various bonuses over normal gear. If I have to have a degree in advanced calculus and analyze all the possible permutations of a given set of gear and weapons, and thereby LIMIT myself only to that one weapon and style of play... then I'm really not interested.
I just want to play.
Of course, for the most part, I can. There's just that top tier stuff that I can't contribute to or participate in meaningfully.
I'm ok with that. I just think it's unfortunate that they designed it that way.
All you have to do is stop thinking you are decently equiped, because you aren't. This isn't something you can decide, because this is objectively decided. The gear that synergizes best with your abilities and class is the best. The gear that doesn't is trash. You can wear it and play, sure. But it isn't decent if you aim to perform in harder content. It also doesn't require a mathematical degree lol. All it requires is time. Time to learn the game and learn what increases X and makes Y more powerful. Once you learn that, you can easily theorycraft effective builds.Morgha_Kul wrote: »I'm sorry to break it to you, but no, your character is NOT decently equiped. You are wearing warmaiden, a magicka damage set, which isn't even good in pve because it doesn't buff flame and lightning staff abilities and heavy + light attacks. On top of that you wear defiler, which is a stamina set. No offense to you personally because most of us have been there, but the best thing is to be honest: your build is trash. If you want to be able to do at least 20k dps (this isn't hard) you need to refrain from making assumptions like "I am decently equiped because I wear cp 160 gear", but in stead focus on learning and looking for the right information to improve.Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I don't think OP understands how MMOs work, at all. This isn't a linear game of Zelda or Final Fantasy, where your only goal is to mash your way to the end, just so you can start again.
To OP: I can understand not wanting to go through the "hassle" (or to some of us, the awesome challenge) of making the climb to endgame, but I don't understand why you want the bar lowered so much, even at the cost of everyone else's enjoyment. This isn't a play-and-toss type of game. It's an ever evolving, ever expanding, open-world game where anyone can come find something to entertain themselves, no matter their interests, skill sets, or abilities. In fact, there is so much to do, the vast majority never completes every available achievement. This is more than just a game. It's a community, and that means everyone gets a place here, including end-gamers who also need a place to enjoy themselves in this game. We enjoy the competitiveness and the difficulty because it's an accomplishment when someone works that hard for something and then achieves it.
You don't have to "get it", but you don't have to make statements aimed at taking it away either.
However, there is NO WAY I can possibly compete in PvP. There is NO WAY I can do a Veteran dungeon. Again, this is a character who is decently equipped. That it's essentially impossible for me to compete or contribute in a meaningful way in much of the game's content suggests to me that there's a problem. The gulf is just too wide.
I will tell you this: No matter what you may believe or find absurd, rotation is EVERYTHING. A noob with top tier gear combination and perfect cp could get 10k dps if he plays like a fool. Yet in the hands of a skilled player who knows how to line up buffs, keep these buffs up and perform a good rotation, you can get 40k dps easily even with making many mistakes. This can be inflated to 50k + on flawless rotations.
It is time to stop living in disbelief. This is reality.
You see, the thing is, I just want to PLAY. To me, decently equipped means I have two full sets of gear, all of it giving me various bonuses over normal gear. If I have to have a degree in advanced calculus and analyze all the possible permutations of a given set of gear and weapons, and thereby LIMIT myself only to that one weapon and style of play... then I'm really not interested.
I just want to play.
Of course, for the most part, I can. There's just that top tier stuff that I can't contribute to or participate in meaningfully.
I'm ok with that. I just think it's unfortunate that they designed it that way.
JayAstrophel wrote: »I’ve been working on improving over the last week and went from 4K to 9k DPS. It’s going to take me a while but I really want to be able to help in that end game content.
Because of this, overland content has indeed gotten easier for me, but I love that! I’very gone from dying on every overland quest boss fight unless I have ww up to confidently taking out enemies. It’s super fun to feel more powerful. Hopefully one day I can get to that 20k and really feel impressive.
I think what's meant here is that once you've hit around 20k you got the basic ideas right, and can improve at your own pace. The learning curve that establishes a rotation, and weaving, is a bit steep just before that level, and you need to make that breakthrough.If you can do 20k DPS you can do all game content.
BejaProphet wrote: »
2. As you move from 20k towards 30k you are reaching a dps level that nobody can just intuitively attain. That level of Dps requires research to understand what combinations of sets can do it, what spell bar set ups are required, and specific rotations of casting spells, and then you practicing it for hours on a dummy. Nobody does what you did and hits 30k dps. You can not just play the game and one day have 30k+ dps. You will need help to do that.