Morgha_Kul wrote: »Truthfully, I don't WANT my dps to be that high, for exactly the reason mentioned here... that most of the game would become trivial. The problem is that if I stay where I am, where I can still be challenged a bit by overland and normal content, I'll be completely unable to participate in much of the other kinds of content, like Veteran dungeons or PvP.
That's why I call it a problem. If I'm at either end of the dps spectrum, there's going to be something I simply can't do. My dps is too high, I can't do regular content anymore (it will be trivial). My dps is too low, I can't do the high end things or pvp.
Now, this is just my take on it. The game seems to be pretty well fine, but I've NEVER done any Veteran dungeons or dailies or anything like that. I've only rarely done any of the group dungeons, like Fungal Grotto and such, and I don't pvp, because I can neither DO nor SURVIVE damage.
But, again, that's just my 2 cents.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Truthfully, I don't WANT my dps to be that high, for exactly the reason mentioned here... that most of the game would become trivial. The problem is that if I stay where I am, where I can still be challenged a bit by overland and normal content, I'll be completely unable to participate in much of the other kinds of content, like Veteran dungeons or PvP.
That's why I call it a problem. If I'm at either end of the dps spectrum, there's going to be something I simply can't do. My dps is too high, I can't do regular content anymore (it will be trivial). My dps is too low, I can't do the high end things or pvp.
Now, this is just my take on it. The game seems to be pretty well fine, but I've NEVER done any Veteran dungeons or dailies or anything like that. I've only rarely done any of the group dungeons, like Fungal Grotto and such, and I don't pvp, because I can neither DO nor SURVIVE damage.
But, again, that's just my 2 cents.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Truthfully, I don't WANT my dps to be that high, for exactly the reason mentioned here... that most of the game would become trivial. The problem is that if I stay where I am, where I can still be challenged a bit by overland and normal content, I'll be completely unable to participate in much of the other kinds of content, like Veteran dungeons or PvP.
That's why I call it a problem. If I'm at either end of the dps spectrum, there's going to be something I simply can't do. My dps is too high, I can't do regular content anymore (it will be trivial). My dps is too low, I can't do the high end things or pvp.
Now, this is just my take on it. The game seems to be pretty well fine, but I've NEVER done any Veteran dungeons or dailies or anything like that. I've only rarely done any of the group dungeons, like Fungal Grotto and such, and I don't pvp, because I can neither DO nor SURVIVE damage.
But, again, that's just my 2 cents.
CyberSkooma wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »Truthfully, I don't WANT my dps to be that high, for exactly the reason mentioned here... that most of the game would become trivial. The problem is that if I stay where I am, where I can still be challenged a bit by overland and normal content, I'll be completely unable to participate in much of the other kinds of content, like Veteran dungeons or PvP.
That's why I call it a problem. If I'm at either end of the dps spectrum, there's going to be something I simply can't do. My dps is too high, I can't do regular content anymore (it will be trivial). My dps is too low, I can't do the high end things or pvp.
Now, this is just my take on it. The game seems to be pretty well fine, but I've NEVER done any Veteran dungeons or dailies or anything like that. I've only rarely done any of the group dungeons, like Fungal Grotto and such, and I don't pvp, because I can neither DO nor SURVIVE damage.
But, again, that's just my 2 cents.
Well you're sort of correct. I'm currently hitting 51k on my stamblade. I love it because I can push high-end content, but it also sucks because it's my main character (have had it since early 2015) and it makes quest content absolutely horrid. Nothing like killing a hyped-up quest boss in three seconds.
kathandira wrote: »Purely opinion but:
15k-20k+ Normal Dungeons
20k-25k+ Veteran Dungeons
25k+ nTrials
30k+ vTrials
I would personally consider 25k as good and entering 30k+ is great and you are probably someone that will have no problem finding groups, though I would say 20k-25k is enough to successfully contribute and complete any content.
I personally would lower each value by 5k, except for vTrials. 2 DPS doing 10k in Normal should be good, not great, but good. Even Normal Trials could be a little lower. We run a training run on Mondays with our guild, and I can tell you that about 1/2 the DPS is likely between 10k and 15k. But we get it done, and it doesn't take forever.
From my point of view , DPS bottom line is around 25k .
Actually parser result from an non moving object is quiet meaningless .
There are many guildmates hit over 40k remarked , but they can't survive in DLC HM and V-trial
I think good DPS has to well know about his build , class characteristic , fighting position , mobs mechanism and Crisis management .
Khivas_Carrick wrote: »From my point of view , DPS bottom line is around 25k .
Actually parser result from an non moving object is quiet meaningless .
There are many guildmates hit over 40k remarked , but they can't survive in DLC HM and V-trial
I think good DPS has to well know about his build , class characteristic , fighting position , mobs mechanism and Crisis management .
This. Actual fights, especially in 4man content will see you at seemingly lower dps than what you should be capable of. Flat, non moving figures where you can just go to town will have you hitting high numbers, but mechanics and movement intensive fights, or Skill Checks as they used to call them, will have you parsing lower because you'll be taking time out of killing the boss in order to keep your ass alive.
It takes a lot more than people think to be a dps, especially in this game lol
Also, I'm damn near convinced you're a troll, but I haven't finished reading this thread so in case you're not....
Pick an attribute and run with it. Hybrid specs/builds are for tanks, not dps, and once you pick an attribute, pick a build and run with it
Khivas_Carrick wrote: »From my point of view , DPS bottom line is around 25k .
Actually parser result from an non moving object is quiet meaningless .
There are many guildmates hit over 40k remarked , but they can't survive in DLC HM and V-trial
I think good DPS has to well know about his build , class characteristic , fighting position , mobs mechanism and Crisis management .
This. Actual fights, especially in 4man content will see you at seemingly lower dps than what you should be capable of. Flat, non moving figures where you can just go to town will have you hitting high numbers, but mechanics and movement intensive fights, or Skill Checks as they used to call them, will have you parsing lower because you'll be taking time out of killing the boss in order to keep your ass alive.
It takes a lot more than people think to be a dps, especially in this game lol
Also, I'm damn near convinced you're a troll, but I haven't finished reading this thread so in case you're not....
Pick an attribute and run with it. Hybrid specs/builds are for tanks, not dps, and once you pick an attribute, pick a build and run with it
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Khivas_Carrick wrote: »From my point of view , DPS bottom line is around 25k .
Actually parser result from an non moving object is quiet meaningless .
There are many guildmates hit over 40k remarked , but they can't survive in DLC HM and V-trial
I think good DPS has to well know about his build , class characteristic , fighting position , mobs mechanism and Crisis management .
This. Actual fights, especially in 4man content will see you at seemingly lower dps than what you should be capable of. Flat, non moving figures where you can just go to town will have you hitting high numbers, but mechanics and movement intensive fights, or Skill Checks as they used to call them, will have you parsing lower because you'll be taking time out of killing the boss in order to keep your ass alive.
It takes a lot more than people think to be a dps, especially in this game lol
Also, I'm damn near convinced you're a troll, but I haven't finished reading this thread so in case you're not....
Pick an attribute and run with it. Hybrid specs/builds are for tanks, not dps, and once you pick an attribute, pick a build and run with it
I promise, there's no trolling here.
The point of the thread was to see whether what I was doing was reasonable or not. Clearly, even when I set up my characters (eg. Morgha Kul) exclusively to do damage, they're not doing as much as some people are doing, and not by a trivial margin.
Now, I'm really not interested in grinding for the next 10000 years to get all the best ultramegasupersilly rare gear to get my dps up to anything like what I'm seeing here. The best I managed was a little over 10k, and that's plenty (and sacrifices all possible defense in the process). I have no particular need to do anything more than I'm doing now... except for when I might be grouping (or in the unlikely event of pvp). I would hate to be a drag on the team, doing 5k damage while they're all doing 30k.
But, I'm satisfied with my ability to solo. I was just curious what was considered "good."
kathandira wrote: »Purely opinion but:
15k-20k+ Normal Dungeons
20k-25k+ Veteran Dungeons
25k+ nTrials
30k+ vTrials
I would personally consider 25k as good and entering 30k+ is great and you are probably someone that will have no problem finding groups, though I would say 20k-25k is enough to successfully contribute and complete any content.
I personally would lower each value by 5k, except for vTrials. 2 DPS doing 10k in Normal should be good, not great, but good. Even Normal Trials could be a little lower. We run a training run on Mondays with our guild, and I can tell you that about 1/2 the DPS is likely between 10k and 15k. But we get it done, and it doesn't take forever.
You are kidding, my hybrid tank/healer does 8k DPS and can solo normal dungeons that don't specifically have boss mechanics that require multiple players. My partner and I two maned a veteran dungeon with her 16k DPS mag templar we only realized we were running it on Veteran instead of Normal half way through. Newer high end dungeons might require a full group. If you can do 20k DPS you can do all game content.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Khivas_Carrick wrote: »From my point of view , DPS bottom line is around 25k .
Actually parser result from an non moving object is quiet meaningless .
There are many guildmates hit over 40k remarked , but they can't survive in DLC HM and V-trial
I think good DPS has to well know about his build , class characteristic , fighting position , mobs mechanism and Crisis management .
This. Actual fights, especially in 4man content will see you at seemingly lower dps than what you should be capable of. Flat, non moving figures where you can just go to town will have you hitting high numbers, but mechanics and movement intensive fights, or Skill Checks as they used to call them, will have you parsing lower because you'll be taking time out of killing the boss in order to keep your ass alive.
It takes a lot more than people think to be a dps, especially in this game lol
Also, I'm damn near convinced you're a troll, but I haven't finished reading this thread so in case you're not....
Pick an attribute and run with it. Hybrid specs/builds are for tanks, not dps, and once you pick an attribute, pick a build and run with it
I promise, there's no trolling here.
The point of the thread was to see whether what I was doing was reasonable or not. Clearly, even when I set up my characters (eg. Morgha Kul) exclusively to do damage, they're not doing as much as some people are doing, and not by a trivial margin.
Now, I'm really not interested in grinding for the next 10000 years to get all the best ultramegasupersilly rare gear to get my dps up to anything like what I'm seeing here. The best I managed was a little over 10k, and that's plenty (and sacrifices all possible defense in the process). I have no particular need to do anything more than I'm doing now... except for when I might be grouping (or in the unlikely event of pvp). I would hate to be a drag on the team, doing 5k damage while they're all doing 30k.
But, I'm satisfied with my ability to solo. I was just curious what was considered "good."
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ok, ran through it again with Morgha Kul (my main, obviously). He's a summoner Sorceror, and decently equipped (War Maiden and Defiler). He's only at 379CP, though (as are all my characters).
I blasted away at the Precursor with my Lightning Staff, and managed a high of 7274.1 in 44s. Better, but I'm still so far away from that upper level of 50k that I must reiterate my concern. This is a character who, while not equipped with the most bleeding edge gear, is still reasonably equipped. He has ALL 64 of his points in Magicka (even though I like to use a 2H sword from time to time), and was using a dps weapon. Granted again, I've not minmaxed a rotation or anything, but I can't imagine getting a 40k+ difference from that.
I suppose it doesn't really matter all that much... unless I decide to try PvP. In that case, I've got as much chance as an ice cube in a blast furnace. I won't be able to compete at all, and that's worrisome when my experience of PvP is already so bad. The other concern, as I said, is that I won't ever be able to do any content aimed at the 50k crowd, and when I see a variance like this, I worry that they're going to start catering to the extreme DPS players...
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Well, that's not likely going to happen. 10s of thousands of dps? To me, that's absurd.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »It's a shame, but while any interesting build can be brought up to 25-30k dps you really want 35k or more for vet trials, preferably upwards of 50k.
Basically you play the exact same item sets and master weapons and abilities regardless of class.
You stack the same buffs, use the same enchantments, same mundus stone.
You will find as you try to make your own build that if you take a "meta" build and try to edit it at all you will drop down to like 30k dps immediately because its so carefully constructed, every ability procs something, or keeps a debuff or buff up.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Ideally, even with the top notch best gear, you should still be challenged by the basic game content... and even with low end gear, the top content should not be overwhelming.
That would be a really terrible MMO. Able to complete top end content with low end gear? That means there is no top end or low end; you're just playing a progression-less adventure game.
As far as your specific issue, to be "good" at anything you have to try. You thought you could be "good" without trying. It's just not going to work, which you have now seen. You seem to have accepted that what you can do is enough for you, which is fine and it's not wrong, but given the first point, this genre might not be for you.
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I don't think OP understands how MMOs work, at all. This isn't a linear game of Zelda or Final Fantasy, where your only goal is to mash your way to the end, just so you can start again.
To OP: I can understand not wanting to go through the "hassle" (or to some of us, the awesome challenge) of making the climb to endgame, but I don't understand why you want the bar lowered so much, even at the cost of everyone else's enjoyment. This isn't a play-and-toss type of game. It's an ever evolving, ever expanding, open-world game where anyone can come find something to entertain themselves, no matter their interests, skill sets, or abilities. In fact, there is so much to do, the vast majority never completes every available achievement. This is more than just a game. It's a community, and that means everyone gets a place here, including end-gamers who also need a place to enjoy themselves in this game. We enjoy the competitiveness and the difficulty because it's an accomplishment when someone works that hard for something and then achieves it.
You don't have to "get it", but you don't have to make statements aimed at taking it away either.
What you really want is, entering a marathon ( or a running event)while being equipped with your boots, jeans and sweater not wanting to switch to your running shoes or your more flexible clothing and being able to put up with other runners that prepared, well equipped for this event.
Dont know what sorcs use nowadays in dungeons but from stamina perspective, just poison arrow+endless hail+ rending slashes and a spammable would yield about or more than 10k.
Also in video games there will always be a vet content that avarage players wont be able to defeat. Like a boss that you cant really defeat unless you try really hard. Use all your resources or exploits. This has always been the case.
And from your comments, i understand you are not really trying sorry.
What you really want is, entering a marathon ( or a running event)while being equipped with your boots, jeans and sweater not wanting to switch to your running shoes or your more flexible clothing and being able to put up with other runners that prepared, well equipped for this event.
Dont know what sorcs use nowadays in dungeons but from stamina perspective, just poison arrow+endless hail+ rending slashes and a spammable would yield about or more than 10k.
Also in video games there will always be a vet content that avarage players wont be able to defeat. Like a boss that you cant really defeat unless you try really hard. Use all your resources or exploits. This has always been the case.
And from your comments, i understand you are not really trying sorry.
No, it's more like wanting to do a quick jog every morning but people are telling you you need to have the same training regiment as an Olympic athlete to be effective. (Yeah, I know, I'm not good with analogies).
From his original post it doesn't seem like OP ever had any reason to worry about his DPS before as the content he's doing never made it a problem. Is it really that some people don't feel the need to improve unless they're faced with a challenge? Mot everyone has to play the game for the same reasons as you.
What you really want is, entering a marathon ( or a running event)while being equipped with your boots, jeans and sweater not wanting to switch to your running shoes or your more flexible clothing and being able to put up with other runners that prepared, well equipped for this event.
Dont know what sorcs use nowadays in dungeons but from stamina perspective, just poison arrow+endless hail+ rending slashes and a spammable would yield about or more than 10k.
Also in video games there will always be a vet content that avarage players wont be able to defeat. Like a boss that you cant really defeat unless you try really hard. Use all your resources or exploits. This has always been the case.
And from your comments, i understand you are not really trying sorry.
No, it's more like wanting to do a quick jog every morning but people are telling you you need to have the same training regiment as an Olympic athlete to be effective. (Yeah, I know, I'm not good with analogies).
From his original post it doesn't seem like OP ever had any reason to worry about his DPS before as the content he's doing never made it a problem. Is it really that some people don't feel the need to improve unless they're faced with a challenge? Mot everyone has to play the game for the same reasons as you.
But he doesnt have to finish the hardest content with the highest damage possible. He can still do 35k and do everything. Read his comment about star wars/trek/ whatever game.
What you really want is, entering a marathon ( or a running event)while being equipped with your boots, jeans and sweater not wanting to switch to your running shoes or your more flexible clothing and being able to put up with other runners that prepared, well equipped for this event.
Dont know what sorcs use nowadays in dungeons but from stamina perspective, just poison arrow+endless hail+ rending slashes and a spammable would yield about or more than 10k.
Also in video games there will always be a vet content that avarage players wont be able to defeat. Like a boss that you cant really defeat unless you try really hard. Use all your resources or exploits. This has always been the case.
And from your comments, i understand you are not really trying sorry.
No, it's more like wanting to do a quick jog every morning but people are telling you you need to have the same training regiment as an Olympic athlete to be effective. (Yeah, I know, I'm not good with analogies).
From his original post it doesn't seem like OP ever had any reason to worry about his DPS before as the content he's doing never made it a problem. Is it really that some people don't feel the need to improve unless they're faced with a challenge? Not everyone has to play the game for the same reasons as you.
exeeter702 wrote: »What you really want is, entering a marathon ( or a running event)while being equipped with your boots, jeans and sweater not wanting to switch to your running shoes or your more flexible clothing and being able to put up with other runners that prepared, well equipped for this event.
Dont know what sorcs use nowadays in dungeons but from stamina perspective, just poison arrow+endless hail+ rending slashes and a spammable would yield about or more than 10k.
Also in video games there will always be a vet content that avarage players wont be able to defeat. Like a boss that you cant really defeat unless you try really hard. Use all your resources or exploits. This has always been the case.
And from your comments, i understand you are not really trying sorry.
No, it's more like wanting to do a quick jog every morning but people are telling you you need to have the same training regiment as an Olympic athlete to be effective. (Yeah, I know, I'm not good with analogies).
From his original post it doesn't seem like OP ever had any reason to worry about his DPS before as the content he's doing never made it a problem. Is it really that some people don't feel the need to improve unless they're faced with a challenge? Not everyone has to play the game for the same reasons as you.
First off, your analogy is terrible. If you want to go for a quick casual jog, do not expect to perform at an Olympic level. The casual jog is just that, casual. The Olympic performance is only relevant to the the olympic event. If you want to enjoy the sensation of competing in such an event, you have to adhere to the standards in place. No one is telling you that you cant enjoy a casual jog with casual relaxed standards if that is what engages you.
The op does not have a reason to worry about their dps because the only activites they are interested in partaking in do not require any sort of elevated dps rotation. The reality sunk in that they are very below average in terms of what equates to competitive dps and for some reason this reality bothers them.
If you arent challenged in any way and you feel no need to improve, no one is going to care. If you start suggesting said low performance should be accommodated in all levels of content then people rightfully so are going to call you out on how terribly bad of a suggestion that is.