First I want to see how OP is this set, vids etc. then we can talk about nerfs.

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

What really stands out is the ease to proc it. People are running Viper these days again because of that - it’s an easy to proc free damage that comes with no downsides even if it’s not a DoT.

It’s the same here. The set is easy to proc in a short cooldown. Given how expensive purging is I’d also say the set is quite strong.

The ease to proc it is there to match the ease at which debuffs are applied to you.

Think about it this way: how many debuffs do you apply per second? If it is more than one, this sets ability to cleanse will be overwhelmed. And you always apply at least 1 debuff per second if you have siphoner. And thats just 1v1.

The set is strong compared to purging yes, but that's only because purge is so bad. I mean, i havent seen it used outside of a dedicated purge spammer in a ballgroup like, ever.

This just showcases you don´t know how the effect and purge system works - it´s first come first serve. Which means debuffs get cleansed depending on how long they have been applied.

Does siphoner help? yes a tiny bit - but not much as the set will prioritize every other effect before removing it again. This means you do precisely NOT apply 1 debuff by default per second - atleast not one that affects how the set removes your other more important debuffs/dots.

There's still tonnes of people acting like this is going to be a major PvP issue. In small scale when outnumbered the amound of debuffs/dots applied will make the set very limiting.

The fact that it's 1 person per 2 seconds for 2 effects makes it so it's very limiting in PvP. You'll want a specific self heal to run this.

Also, how much do you give up to run this in PvP? I heard stamblades talking about using it earlier.... so which set do you drop? If you're full burst are you dropping a damage set for this? If you run BP are you dropping that to run this?

In zergs guess what, the amount they can cleanse is very limited from this because of the 1 person per 2 seconds limit. Is the entire zerg going to run it? Lol no.

Say you're in a 24 player zerg (again extreme example but best highlights this) which has 4 healers (usually run 3-4 in such groups but let's say 4) and you encounter another group defending a keep from you. You set the ram up and let the siege begin.

So there's a DK who puts eruption/caltrops down on you for the snare (1 and reapplies every second so removal is pointless), a warden throws down corrupting pollen for the defile (2), the oils rain down (3), scattershots (4), and ballistae/trebs pelt you with cold fire (5) and regular fire (6).

So every person on that ram has immediately 6 automatically reapplying debuffs. Standard groups run between 6 and 10 players on a ram.
So at best case scenario with just those very common siege elements there's 36 debuffs a second in that ram group.

This is WITHOUT all the snipes, cripples, fractures, siphoner, poison procs, enchant procs.

So you have 2 healers running it and earthgore combined. So every 2 seconds they scrub off debuffs that instantly reapply as it gives no immunity, just removal. Earthgore removes 1 ground based effect if the health gets low enough for the proc, usually Caltrops. Instantly the player who threw them notices the lack of damage numbers and throws them again.

Your best case in that situation is that your 2 healers remove 16 of the 36 effects and 4 of them get instantly reapplied with the 12 dots soaked by 2 Earthgores (corrupting pollen and caltrops each on the 6 players) being rethrown.

So keep saying that 2 debuff cleanse will be OP, but until you run a full scenario through to count effects and show how effective/ineffective it is for groups and small scale alike it's all wild gestures shouting the sky is falling and most people will not see your argument.

Currently mag sorcs have the best argument in 1v1. The second more people are added to both sides then the argumentstarts to become null and void.

Templar will be really limited dps wise. 0 dots on every pvp speck.

Waffennacht wrote: »

This is absolutely powerful.

Passive purge?

Costs you 0 GCDs to remove what costs your opponent 2 GCDs to perform

Maybe if you are spamming light attacks.

Potential for 1 GCD: Stampede+LA = snare, merciless charge DOT, poison DOT, another poison DOT, poisoned status effect, axebleed, siphoner, viper... 8 statuses, and im sure i missed some.

Having had hours long discussions about this set, there have been two situations which this set is potentially overperforming. There are caveats to each situation, which I will also outline.

1. One person is fighting one or more people, and one enemy is wearing this set. If they are running a debuff/DoT specc'ed build (i.e. Curse for sorc), it is an oppressive set as it negates that one person's damage. Granted, this means that person is not running another set such as a) a proc set; b) another healing set; c) some other damage component, all of which would be oppressive as well
2. A larger group of players (say 10) all convince each other to run a heal and this set (note that it would have to be active on both bars and could not be backbarred in this instance). This means they would all be co-purging each other, which could be oppressive as it would be difficult to build up DoTs/debuffs on them. This means that they would be dropping another set, likely a damage set that would result in them losing a significant amount of outgoing damage. Also, these groups often have dedicated purgers anyways, and this would only be stacking on top of this.

While I disagree that either of these scenarios makes this set broken (a good healer will never let his allies get 1vXed, and you are sacrificing a significant amount to use this set en masse), here are some proposed solutions that may make this set less oppressive.

1. Make the set have a cooldown based on each ally. I would then buff the magicka return for this set's 5-piece. i.e. "When you heal yourself or an ally, remove two negative effects from them. If a negative effect was removed this way, your target restores 1000 Magicka. This effect can occur every 2 seconds, and can only occur on each ally every 10 seconds." (This would make it not worth stacking, as your allies would be on an internal clock where they could not purge from this set again. Additionally, it would make it so someone fighting 1v1 would have to reapply two debuffs every 10 seconds, which makes this set not even that good).
2. Make the set purge only major/minor debuffs on allies. This would make it less oppressive, as skills that incorporate DoTs/snares/etc. would not be adversely impacted (which is what most people are upset about). It would make the set valuable still, but not in a way that hinder's incoming damage as severely.

I believe the set would be used, but not oppressive, in either of the above situations. I honestly think that the first change is actually pretty weak still, as it puts it on a similar level as Stendarr's Embrace, which no one uses.

Glory wrote: »

*] A larger group of players (say 10) all convince each other to run a heal and this set (note that it would have to be active on both bars and could not be backbarred in this instance). This means they would all be co-purging each other, which could be oppressive as it would be difficult to build up DoTs/debuffs on them. This means that they would be dropping another set, likely a damage set that would result in them losing a significant amount of outgoing damage. Also, these groups often have dedicated purgers anyways, and this would only be stacking on top of this.

I don't know if saying 10+ players all running the same set is a situation worth bringing up to determine if a set is balanced or not. Couldn't we say the same thing about a set like Vicious Death? If all 10 members run that set, then every kill by the member of the group is going to create a high damage AOE proc explosion. Would VD then be considered too strong?

Sharee wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

This is absolutely powerful.

Passive purge?

Costs you 0 GCDs to remove what costs your opponent 2 GCDs to perform

Maybe if you are spamming light attacks.

Potential for 1 GCD: Stampede+LA = snare, merciless charge DOT, poison DOT, another poison DOT, poisoned status effect, axebleed, siphoner, viper... 8 statuses, and im sure i missed some.

But let's just analyze your costs: Viper, MA, poisons (20% chance right?) Axe bleed (16%?)

You are relying on 2 sets, proc chances and poisons.

I just have to run 1 set and any passive healing

finally - was looking for a good easy way to proc my steadfast on non-Templar / warden classes. thanks Zos!!

For my style of PvP I usually have 5 or more negative effects on me basically 100% of the time so while this set is nice between the snares, debuffs, and dots it's not going to be anywhere near a 100% purge for solo players. As for groups I don't see any change to how a solo player would fight them because they always have a Templar spamming purge anyway. The only time I see this set being really strong is 1v1 and strong against dual weild players who don't have a spammable and rely on bleeds for majority of their damage.

To run this set though you will basically have to give up either a damage set or a defensive set. Giving up a damage set will leave you with very little damage and giving up a defensive set will open you up to burst builds that don't rely on dots to get kills like stamdens. So I would hold off on the nerfs until we actually see how the set plays in cyrodiil.

Why is everyone overreacting so much with curse-eater? Templar can cleanse 2.5x as many negative effects every second. Love how everyone is calling for massive nerfs before even testing.

lassitershawn wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

It purges 2 things every 2 seconds, anyone who's been hit by piercing mark or the like knows that has a lot of individual things that each need to be purged, sets like wyrd tree and stendarr already exist and purge 5 debuffs a proc (with wyrd having a 15s cooldown and stendarr having a 30s cooldown per target) and those didn't end the world. Only way this could be overpowered is if someone is using this solo, but even then the number of purgable effects they would be facing would still likely outpace it by a lot.

My stamplar can confirm. Im running the 5-effect cleanse because 2 effects cleansed often felt like nothing. Even with the 5-effect version i often need to cleanse multiple times to get rid of the whole row of debuffs usually spanning my screen from left to right.

It will be a good counter however to those who just rely on 1-2 powerful effects on their target to do their killing for them.

Please, the set basically makes you immune to magsorcs and crazy strong against anyone using DoTs. It takes no skill to use because it works on HoTs. Not only that but it will essentially proc on CD and has magicka recovery baked in as well so the 5pc serves a double purpose. The 2, 3, 4pc bonuses are strong as well.

Not to sound like a smartass but sometimes magplar cleansing 5 negative effects at once does not even clear a root or disabling effect. That's because you have a buttload of negative effects on you during combat and you're removing other crap first.