RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »The thing that bothers me the most is that these changes to Racial Passives have effects which go way beyond combat metrics.
Some of the racial passives that are being deleted from the game have been defining features of those races since ESO began, nearly 5 years ago. I have created character builds, passive RP characterisations and back stories around those passives. I have made a heavy investment in them over the years. I sure many other players have too.
Two of my Dunmer seem to be the worst affected. Both are DK's, one mag, one Pelinal's hybrid. The flame damage bonus is central to their respective builds, and has thus become the corner stone on which I have constructed their characterisations and back stories. The Pelinal's build is already pretty marginal in combat, and may become completely non-viable, even for things like Public Dungeon bosses.
My chief of sneaks is a Bosmer, but it looks like he would now be better suited to the role of sentry rather than ganker. At a stroke he's lost both of the stealth bonuses which together were his entire raison d'être. Not at all sure what I can do with that character now. My Khajiit may have had his claws clipped but at least he can still be a good thief.
I haven't had a chance to check yet, but I'm pretty sure that Argonian poison resistance is referenced in NPC dialogue. IIRC Jee-Lar and Green Venom Tongue both mention it. Looks like the Combat Team have quite literally lost the plot with this one. They certainly seem to be above the lore.
Games are supposed to be fun. Having some of my oldest, most beloved characters mutilated like this is not fun, especially as it seem to be a thing with every update now.
If you find it screenshot issue and post here.
In the Murkmire prep quest to find a Copper Tongued Skink there is no doubt that Jee-Lar is referring to Argonian poison resistance. Copper tongued skinks are said to put even the heartiest Argonian to shame, and that is because they love eating venom.
I can't check Green Venom Tongue's dialogue as he is not available to any of characters.
DanteMR1995 wrote: »Only 1 free race change given... Also REDGUARD MEGABUFF, like everyone that ran stamina already used Redguard...
Twohothardware wrote: »As someone who min-maxes their characters, and has a number of them, my biggest concern by far is the large outlay of money I'll need to make to keep my character's races ideal for their roles and my playstyle.
This expense is compounded by the fact that several of those characters have race-appropriate names, necessitating further cash outlay in the form of name change tokens in order to continue enjoying my characters as I do now.
Others have said it , but I feel the need to say it again: balance changes should not be monetized. To do so is sleazy arm-twisting.
They continue to add more character slots so those that are hardcore min/max can simply level a new character if the changes are that big to them instead of buying race/name change tokens.
It takes very little time during the bonus XP events in comparison to the amount of time you're spending playing the game. , ect.
ZOS can't balance the game around the handful of people with 15 characters they want to keep fully min/maxed in rotation. Real Race balancing has been a long time coming.
You're so right, it would be totally awesome to re-roll and grind up not only levels, but skill points, guild lines, alchemy and provisioning, on my whole fleet of characters. Thank you for showing me that because something doesn't concern you, it shouldn't concern me. I'm so grateful you set me straight.
A note re: reading comprehension though: I wan't asking ZOS to "balance the game around the handful of people with 15 characters they want to keep fully min/maxed in rotation." I was asking them not to monetize those changes. And FYI: the people with multiple characters they would feel the need to change is far more than "a handful".
"I used to fully level a character per week when Kyne was popular and that included fully leveling Fighters Guild"
Thanks for your interesting suggestion, but I won't spend eight weeks leveling new characters just to get back to where I was before the change. If that becomes necessary, I'll likely just play a different game.
Twohothardware wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »As someone who min-maxes their characters, and has a number of them, my biggest concern by far is the large outlay of money I'll need to make to keep my character's races ideal for their roles and my playstyle.
This expense is compounded by the fact that several of those characters have race-appropriate names, necessitating further cash outlay in the form of name change tokens in order to continue enjoying my characters as I do now.
Others have said it , but I feel the need to say it again: balance changes should not be monetized. To do so is sleazy arm-twisting.
They continue to add more character slots so those that are hardcore min/max can simply level a new character if the changes are that big to them instead of buying race/name change tokens.
It takes very little time during the bonus XP events in comparison to the amount of time you're spending playing the game. , ect.
ZOS can't balance the game around the handful of people with 15 characters they want to keep fully min/maxed in rotation. Real Race balancing has been a long time coming.
You're so right, it would be totally awesome to re-roll and grind up not only levels, but skill points, guild lines, alchemy and provisioning, on my whole fleet of characters. Thank you for showing me that because something doesn't concern you, it shouldn't concern me. I'm so grateful you set me straight.
A note re: reading comprehension though: I wan't asking ZOS to "balance the game around the handful of people with 15 characters they want to keep fully min/maxed in rotation." I was asking them not to monetize those changes. And FYI: the people with multiple characters they would feel the need to change is far more than "a handful".
"I used to fully level a character per week when Kyne was popular and that included fully leveling Fighters Guild"
Thanks for your interesting suggestion, but I won't spend eight weeks leveling new characters just to get back to where I was before the change. If that becomes necessary, I'll likely just play a different game.
I didn't say it shouldn't concern you at all, I said you can't expect it to be the main concern of ZOS. They can't hold up Race balancing forever just so that people that picked the perfect Race before can always have the perfect race for that class a couple of years later. It's no different in any other game where they nerf or buff a specific gun or character that you've spent a long period of time grinding to get or to unlock features for. Meta's change.
None of these changes are likely going to even approach being the difference in whether or not you can complete any end-game activity. What EXACTLY is your concern? That you won't be able to get the top score in a Trial or something? Make a new character using the new meta race for that class to focus on top scores and continue playing the content on your other characters the same as you always have.
I think the issue here is more with the people that FEEL they would need to change the Race of 8+ characters just because it was no longer the #1 choice. You might have to adjust your build slightly but none of the changes are so drastic that you NEED to Race change all of your characters.
The only area that is truly competitive in this game is PvP and the majority of players are only active on a couple of characters. You get one free Race change, that will cover the majority of players who want the best race on their main. The rest have the CHOICE to either level new characters or spend the money to instantly swap with no time spent.
As I said, it's no different in another game if they nerfed the gun you spent weeks grinding for perfect rolls on and you then had the option to either spend weeks grinding for the next meta weapon or they let you buy it instantly with no time/effort spent.
Twohothardware wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »As someone who min-maxes their characters, and has a number of them, my biggest concern by far is the large outlay of money I'll need to make to keep my character's races ideal for their roles and my playstyle.
This expense is compounded by the fact that several of those characters have race-appropriate names, necessitating further cash outlay in the form of name change tokens in order to continue enjoying my characters as I do now.
Others have said it , but I feel the need to say it again: balance changes should not be monetized. To do so is sleazy arm-twisting.
They continue to add more character slots so those that are hardcore min/max can simply level a new character if the changes are that big to them instead of buying race/name change tokens.
It takes very little time during the bonus XP events in comparison to the amount of time you're spending playing the game. , ect.
ZOS can't balance the game around the handful of people with 15 characters they want to keep fully min/maxed in rotation. Real Race balancing has been a long time coming.
You're so right, it would be totally awesome to re-roll and grind up not only levels, but skill points, guild lines, alchemy and provisioning, on my whole fleet of characters. Thank you for showing me that because something doesn't concern you, it shouldn't concern me. I'm so grateful you set me straight.
A note re: reading comprehension though: I wan't asking ZOS to "balance the game around the handful of people with 15 characters they want to keep fully min/maxed in rotation." I was asking them not to monetize those changes. And FYI: the people with multiple characters they would feel the need to change is far more than "a handful".
"I used to fully level a character per week when Kyne was popular and that included fully leveling Fighters Guild"
Thanks for your interesting suggestion, but I won't spend eight weeks leveling new characters just to get back to where I was before the change. If that becomes necessary, I'll likely just play a different game.
I didn't say it shouldn't concern you at all, I said you can't expect it to be the main concern of ZOS. They can't hold up Race balancing forever just so that people that picked the perfect Race before can always have the perfect race for that class a couple of years later. It's no different in any other game where they nerf or buff a specific gun or character that you've spent a long period of time grinding to get or to unlock features for. Meta's change.
None of these changes are likely going to even approach being the difference in whether or not you can complete any end-game activity. What EXACTLY is your concern? That you won't be able to get the top score in a Trial or something? Make a new character using the new meta race for that class to focus on top scores and continue playing the content on your other characters the same as you always have.
I think the issue here is more with the people that FEEL they would need to change the Race of 8+ characters just because it was no longer the #1 choice. You might have to adjust your build slightly but none of the changes are so drastic that you NEED to Race change all of your characters.
The only area that is truly competitive in this game is PvP and the majority of players are only active on a couple of characters. You get one free Race change, that will cover the majority of players who want the best race on their main. The rest have the CHOICE to either level new characters or spend the money to instantly swap with no time spent.
As I said, it's no different in another game if they nerfed the gun you spent weeks grinding for perfect rolls on and you then had the option to either spend weeks grinding for the next meta weapon or they let you buy it instantly with no time/effort spent.
"I didn't say it shouldn't concern you at all, I said you can't expect it to be the main concern of ZOS. They can't hold up Race balancing forever just so that people that picked the perfect Race before can always have the perfect race for that class a couple of years later. "
Again, I never said they should hold up race balancing. I said they shouldn't monetize it. How many times do I have to say that before you stop holding up straw men and address what I actually said? Not that I was asking for your opinion to begin with...OP asked for people's main concern, I gave mine. You keep trying to dismiss it.
"None of these changes are likely going to even approach being the difference in whether or not you can complete any end-game activity."
You know what? It's not up to you to decide what I need to do with my characters to be competitive in the the content I play. I expressed my concern as asked by the OP. I didn't solicit your condescending critique of that concern.
"It's no different in any other game where they nerf or buff a specific gun or character that you've spent a long period of time grinding to get or to unlock features for. Meta's change.
Of course meta's change. But only P2W games monetize those changes. In every other MMO I've played, free respecs have been given to every character on the account affected by the level of changes they're making here.
And now I'm done addressing your minimization of my concerns.
Twohothardware wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »As someone who min-maxes their characters, and has a number of them, my biggest concern by far is the large outlay of money I'll need to make to keep my character's races ideal for their roles and my playstyle.
This expense is compounded by the fact that several of those characters have race-appropriate names, necessitating further cash outlay in the form of name change tokens in order to continue enjoying my characters as I do now.
Others have said it , but I feel the need to say it again: balance changes should not be monetized. To do so is sleazy arm-twisting.
They continue to add more character slots so those that are hardcore min/max can simply level a new character if the changes are that big to them instead of buying race/name change tokens.
It takes very little time during the bonus XP events in comparison to the amount of time you're spending playing the game. , ect.
ZOS can't balance the game around the handful of people with 15 characters they want to keep fully min/maxed in rotation. Real Race balancing has been a long time coming.
You're so right, it would be totally awesome to re-roll and grind up not only levels, but skill points, guild lines, alchemy and provisioning, on my whole fleet of characters. Thank you for showing me that because something doesn't concern you, it shouldn't concern me. I'm so grateful you set me straight.
A note re: reading comprehension though: I wan't asking ZOS to "balance the game around the handful of people with 15 characters they want to keep fully min/maxed in rotation." I was asking them not to monetize those changes. And FYI: the people with multiple characters they would feel the need to change is far more than "a handful".
"I used to fully level a character per week when Kyne was popular and that included fully leveling Fighters Guild"
Thanks for your interesting suggestion, but I won't spend eight weeks leveling new characters just to get back to where I was before the change. If that becomes necessary, I'll likely just play a different game.
I didn't say it shouldn't concern you at all, I said you can't expect it to be the main concern of ZOS. They can't hold up Race balancing forever just so that people that picked the perfect Race before can always have the perfect race for that class a couple of years later. It's no different in any other game where they nerf or buff a specific gun or character that you've spent a long period of time grinding to get or to unlock features for. Meta's change.
None of these changes are likely going to even approach being the difference in whether or not you can complete any end-game activity. What EXACTLY is your concern? That you won't be able to get the top score in a Trial or something? Make a new character using the new meta race for that class to focus on top scores and continue playing the content on your other characters the same as you always have.
I think the issue here is more with the people that FEEL they would need to change the Race of 8+ characters just because it was no longer the #1 choice. You might have to adjust your build slightly but none of the changes are so drastic that you NEED to Race change all of your characters.
The only area that is truly competitive in this game is PvP and the majority of players are only active on a couple of characters. You get one free Race change, that will cover the majority of players who want the best race on their main. The rest have the CHOICE to either level new characters or spend the money to instantly swap with no time spent.
As I said, it's no different in another game if they nerfed the gun you spent weeks grinding for perfect rolls on and you then had the option to either spend weeks grinding for the next meta weapon or they let you buy it instantly with no time/effort spent.
"I didn't say it shouldn't concern you at all, I said you can't expect it to be the main concern of ZOS. They can't hold up Race balancing forever just so that people that picked the perfect Race before can always have the perfect race for that class a couple of years later. "
Again, I never said they should hold up race balancing. I said they shouldn't monetize it. How many times do I have to say that before you stop holding up straw men and address what I actually said? Not that I was asking for your opinion to begin with...OP asked for people's main concern, I gave mine. You keep trying to dismiss it.
"None of these changes are likely going to even approach being the difference in whether or not you can complete any end-game activity."
You know what? It's not up to you to decide what I need to do with my characters to be competitive in the the content I play. I expressed my concern as asked by the OP. I didn't solicit your condescending critique of that concern.
"It's no different in any other game where they nerf or buff a specific gun or character that you've spent a long period of time grinding to get or to unlock features for. Meta's change.
Of course meta's change. But only P2W games monetize those changes. In every other MMO I've played, free respecs have been given to every character on the account affected by the level of changes they're making here.
And now I'm done addressing your minimization of my concerns.
If they didn't sell race change tokens and you couldn't change your race at all then you guys wouldn't even have something to complain about. When most metas change in other games or even in ESO when Sets get rebalanced you have to spend the time to go and farm whatever is the new thing.
Will ZOS make money from people that want to instantly have the new best in slot Race/build combo after the DLC drops? Yes. Would you be happier if they didn't have Tokens at all and you have no choice but to make new characters?
joseayalac wrote: »Bosmer's speed is overpowered. It's the only passive that I think is actually unbalanced.
—quoted from the developer comments.Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!)
XiDiabolismiX wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »As someone who min-maxes their characters, and has a number of them, my biggest concern by far is the large outlay of money I'll need to make to keep my character's races ideal for their roles and my playstyle.
This expense is compounded by the fact that several of those characters have race-appropriate names, necessitating further cash outlay in the form of name change tokens in order to continue enjoying my characters as I do now.
Others have said it , but I feel the need to say it again: balance changes should not be monetized. To do so is sleazy arm-twisting.
They continue to add more character slots so those that are hardcore min/max can simply level a new character if the changes are that big to them instead of buying race/name change tokens.
It takes very little time during the bonus XP events in comparison to the amount of time you're spending playing the game. , ect.
ZOS can't balance the game around the handful of people with 15 characters they want to keep fully min/maxed in rotation. Real Race balancing has been a long time coming.
You're so right, it would be totally awesome to re-roll and grind up not only levels, but skill points, guild lines, alchemy and provisioning, on my whole fleet of characters. Thank you for showing me that because something doesn't concern you, it shouldn't concern me. I'm so grateful you set me straight.
A note re: reading comprehension though: I wan't asking ZOS to "balance the game around the handful of people with 15 characters they want to keep fully min/maxed in rotation." I was asking them not to monetize those changes. And FYI: the people with multiple characters they would feel the need to change is far more than "a handful".
"I used to fully level a character per week when Kyne was popular and that included fully leveling Fighters Guild"
Thanks for your interesting suggestion, but I won't spend eight weeks leveling new characters just to get back to where I was before the change. If that becomes necessary, I'll likely just play a different game.
I didn't say it shouldn't concern you at all, I said you can't expect it to be the main concern of ZOS. They can't hold up Race balancing forever just so that people that picked the perfect Race before can always have the perfect race for that class a couple of years later. It's no different in any other game where they nerf or buff a specific gun or character that you've spent a long period of time grinding to get or to unlock features for. Meta's change.
None of these changes are likely going to even approach being the difference in whether or not you can complete any end-game activity. What EXACTLY is your concern? That you won't be able to get the top score in a Trial or something? Make a new character using the new meta race for that class to focus on top scores and continue playing the content on your other characters the same as you always have.
I think the issue here is more with the people that FEEL they would need to change the Race of 8+ characters just because it was no longer the #1 choice. You might have to adjust your build slightly but none of the changes are so drastic that you NEED to Race change all of your characters.
The only area that is truly competitive in this game is PvP and the majority of players are only active on a couple of characters. You get one free Race change, that will cover the majority of players who want the best race on their main. The rest have the CHOICE to either level new characters or spend the money to instantly swap with no time spent.
As I said, it's no different in another game if they nerfed the gun you spent weeks grinding for perfect rolls on and you then had the option to either spend weeks grinding for the next meta weapon or they let you buy it instantly with no time/effort spent.
"I didn't say it shouldn't concern you at all, I said you can't expect it to be the main concern of ZOS. They can't hold up Race balancing forever just so that people that picked the perfect Race before can always have the perfect race for that class a couple of years later. "
Again, I never said they should hold up race balancing. I said they shouldn't monetize it. How many times do I have to say that before you stop holding up straw men and address what I actually said? Not that I was asking for your opinion to begin with...OP asked for people's main concern, I gave mine. You keep trying to dismiss it.
"None of these changes are likely going to even approach being the difference in whether or not you can complete any end-game activity."
You know what? It's not up to you to decide what I need to do with my characters to be competitive in the the content I play. I expressed my concern as asked by the OP. I didn't solicit your condescending critique of that concern.
"It's no different in any other game where they nerf or buff a specific gun or character that you've spent a long period of time grinding to get or to unlock features for. Meta's change.
Of course meta's change. But only P2W games monetize those changes. In every other MMO I've played, free respecs have been given to every character on the account affected by the level of changes they're making here.
And now I'm done addressing your minimization of my concerns.
If they didn't sell race change tokens and you couldn't change your race at all then you guys wouldn't even have something to complain about. When most metas change in other games or even in ESO when Sets get rebalanced you have to spend the time to go and farm whatever is the new thing.
Will ZOS make money from people that want to instantly have the new best in slot Race/build combo after the DLC drops? Yes. Would you be happier if they didn't have Tokens at all and you have no choice but to make new characters?
What world do you live in where grinding out some new gear is comparable to starting a character from scratch that you’ve already put hundreds of hours in on?
Dumbest comparison I’ve read so far.
That ZOS will ignore intelligent, fact based, reasonably and calmly stated feedback from the PTS players and simply roll out the changes. There are some players that understand the game at a level at least equal to the devs. (I'm not one of them though)
ZOS ignoring people freaking out and ranting is only reasonable and to be expected. I imaging that's a big part of why the devs don't interact on the forums more often.
I am a bit wary of some of the racial passive changes, but haven't had a chance to test them yet.
make her stamina, yes this is an nerf if you wanted to play magic.AngelaWasp wrote: »I love my main character, she was my first and I play her every single day. I've been through a lot with her. Unfortunately, she's a dark elf magicka warden, which is looking like the worst thing my favourite character could ever have been. It's just been nerf after nerf. There's no way I could change her race, I'm that attached to her. I do have other characters who will be stronger who I could play, but I'm feeling pretty upset tbh.
Not hybrid but flexible and can go both ways, this is an major buff in it self and an high nerf resistance.They said about balancing races but races still can be splitted in stam and mag.
Altmer/redguard still bis giving no other option.
Khajiit and Dunmer as attempt to be hybrid races, losing their former efficiency (stam and mag respectively).
Imperial passive are still trash imho, a 15% chance to get back 700ish health in pvp is a joke
playsforfun wrote: »I'm concerned that this won't be the last time they change them and do what dcuo did making certain better than other so people would buy change tokens in the store.
redspecter23 wrote: »Only 1 free race change given. It should be 1 per character, not 1 per account.
Monetizing game balance changes is just plain wrong.
Role imbalance.
Argonian potion boost otoh, it is still completely OP, if u use 3 potion speed glyphs and run a superexpensive hybrid build where u blast tri pots on cooldown. For everything else, the racials r meh. That feels like a "look that passive is op in those 2 areas of the game and thus comes at a high price, but well, better stay away from everything else."
Same for bosmer, u can run a pvp dodgemonkey bowbuild, which will be prolly extremely annoying to face, if u overdo it with things like senche, mori, gloom, hunt and tactitian. over the thumb id say the build would be annoying, but not threatening to face and, it looks like the only thing, the racials r good for. in every other area of the game a different race will perform (far) better.
.