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What changes should be made to reflective scales to make the ability balanced?

DanteMR1995
DanteMR1995
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As it stands, dragon knights hard counter any projectile builds limiting options for ranged casters and archers. Not only can they negate a large number of combat abilities, they're free to engage, spamming talons and lava whip you to death (which also heals them significantly). This single ability limits build diversity as everyone is forced to drop projectile abilities in favor of DoTs and AoEs. For abilities like destructive reach, not only do they have to replace it with another damaging ability, they also have to add a hard CC ability to their bar. This breaks many builds as there are many important skills, and only a few available slots. Additionally, those with a bow or staff are unable to light attack weave, which further reduces damage and ultimate regeneration.

To summarize:
It's a spammable self buff that nullifies builds using projectiles, light attack weaving on staffs and bows, and allows the caster to fight while being, in some cases, invincible. All of this makes it a broken mechanic.

What changes should be made to reflective scales to make the ability balanced? 114 votes

Make the ability reflect only while blocking, then buff the duration and number of reflected projectiles. This way you have to use it defensively.
6%
CheloMinalanDanteMR1995susmitdsAlucuMurador178Thanatos_inside 7 votes
Make the ability a single target CC, like eclipse. This way it can be countered with CC break.
0%
Iruil_ESO 1 vote
Remove the reflective mechanic from the ability, instead making it absorb damage similar to Crystallized Shield. This way ranged builds can still attack without hurting themselves.
10%
biminirwb17_ESOIdinusekollege14a5SteelshivSkanderDeep_01dogmanApostateHobofrostz417bagonLeocaranvingarmo 12 votes
Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.
44%
GilvothMalnutritionxMovingTargettechnohicIndorilArwynLlethranIpslorLatiosBughoundEdziuRagnaroek93MinnoUndefwunSleep724Sanctum74ChunkyCatcoj901DojohodaSpiderKnightWolf_WatchingTrinity_Is_My_Name 51 votes
Other.
37%
AzuryaDavadinAurielleShareekojouleeuxDraxysNoisividToRelaxpaulsimonpsCinbriDerraMalkorgaAedarylToc de MalsviZodiac_LadislaoFrancisCrawfordWepsNeloth 43 votes
  • Sanctum74
    Sanctum74
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    Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.
    So with that logic then I guess shields negate every skill in the game so they should be nerfed too or...

    You could use one of the counters available to you that work for everyone else.

    Don't use a role playing pet build and expect it to be competitive.

    Keep practicing and accept that you're not going to win every fight and not everyone can kill you either.

    It's just a game, stop with the nerfs!


  • Priyasekarssk
    Priyasekarssk
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    Other.
    As it stands, dragon knights hard counter any projectile builds limiting options for ranged casters and archers. Not only can they negate a large number of combat abilities, they're free to engage, spamming talons and lava whip you to death (which also heals them significantly). This single ability limits build diversity as everyone is forced to drop projectile abilities in favor of DoTs and AoEs. For abilities like destructive reach, not only do they have to replace it with another damaging ability, they also have to add a hard CC ability to their bar. This breaks many builds as there are many important skills, and only a few available slots. Additionally, those with a bow or staff are unable to light attack weave, which further reduces damage and ultimate regeneration.

    To summarize:
    It's a spammable self buff that nullifies builds using projectiles, light attack weaving on staffs and bows, and allows the caster to fight while being, in some cases, invincible. All of this makes it a broken mechanic.

    Reduce reflect count to 3 or 2 and include lethal arrow as well. 4 is way too much. Garbage game balance. No wonder everyone is DK . VMA is a cakewalk with DK. DKs can solo final boss of fang lair. lol. All we have to do is spam wings. *** game balance.
    Edited by Priyasekarssk on January 12, 2019 2:15AM
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    1) works on 3 projectiles per enemy per cast
    2) deflects ranged projectiles, including birds and sloads, instead of reflecting them
    3) optional: x% chance to reflect the projectile instead of deflecting, to encourage intelligent play/counterplay instead of just continuing to spam attacks into wings
    4) one morph continues to provide the 2 seconds of snare immunity. The other morph gets a new bonus effect or buff.
    PC NA
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    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka Sorcerer
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    TheYKcid wrote: »
    1. Will not reflect anything cast from an 8m range or nearer
    2. Will have infinite reflects for the 6s duration

    1) means it no longer shuts-down ranged builds with no counterplay, and gives them the option to close into melee range if they want to engage the DK—a fair tradeoff since they lose the advantages of range/kiting, and take a big risk as the DK is already one of the most dominant classes within melee range even without reflects. DKs will still get to leverage on the strong points of their class design, ranged builds no longer have to flee on-sight, everyone has more fun.

    2) Wings will scale better when outnumbered (they currently drop too fast if multiple zerglings are spamming projectiles at you). It also disincentivises unhealthy low-risk/high-reward gameplay like snipe-spamming NBs.

    In summary, the OP aspects of wings will be toned-down, while the underperforming aspects will be buffed to compensate. It's win-win. Credits to @ak_pvp for this idea, btw.

    I prefer this.
    0331
    0602
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.
    .
    Edited by Gilvoth on January 23, 2019 4:54PM

  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    You know what's a broken mechanic? Implosion.

    It's an execute that doesn't cost anything and doesn't even require a slot on your skill bar.

    Implosion isn't broken. Random number determinant & implosion is broken.
    0331
    0602
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.
    .
    Edited by Gilvoth on January 23, 2019 4:54PM

  • TheYKcid
    TheYKcid
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    Other.
    heres a hint tho

    1
    they cant reflect the bow ult turret

    2
    count to 3 after they flap wing, and the reflect is over (unless they spam it)

    3
    when they are near death, it wont matter if they spam wings, just unload all u got on them because their health will go down faster then yours, they'll die.

    Let's be real you're not killing anyone with or without wings.
    PC/NA__Daggerfall Covenant__Vivec
    Karmic-Chameleon — Argonian Stamblade
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    Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
    .
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    Other.
    TheYKcid wrote: »
    heres a hint tho

    1
    they cant reflect the bow ult turret

    2
    count to 3 after they flap wing, and the reflect is over (unless they spam it)

    3
    when they are near death, it wont matter if they spam wings, just unload all u got on them because their health will go down faster then yours, they'll die.

    Let's be real you're not killing anyone with or without wings.

    F.
    @jcm2606 | PC NA | CP 940+ | Stormproof | Boethia's Scythe
  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
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    I would like to add major expedition and remove it from chains. So we can use it without and enemy just like all the other class can outside of combat. Really who thanks of speed and chains. Wings and speed yes. I don't think wings are nearly as good as you think they are. Very expensive to cast
  • Heimpai
    Heimpai
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    Funny, i went from my magblade to my magsorc (haven’t touched in 4+ months) and dk‘s are no longer an issue

    For me anyways
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    Other.
    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    I would like to add major expedition and remove it from chains. So we can use it without and enemy just like all the other class can outside of combat. Really who thanks of speed and chains. Wings and speed yes. I don't think wings are nearly as good as you think they are. Very expensive to cast

    Yeah, makes no sense to add Major Expedition on a gapcloser. Don't think adding it to wings is a good idea, though, given the snare immunity. Might overload it a tad.

    And to put it into perspective for the cost of wings compared to Crystallized Shield, the most comparable projectile immunity skill to wings IMO, with the full magicka return from 3 projectiles taken into account, Crystallized Shield costs less than half as much magicka to cast as wings does.
    @jcm2606 | PC NA | CP 940+ | Stormproof | Boethia's Scythe
  • Lichbourne90
    Lichbourne90
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    Other.
    Only change I'd make is change the morph with snare immunity to 4 seconds to bring it in line with forward momentum. Sure I can see how some players have trouble with wings, but i play both a stam dk and mag dk that use wings and good players still find a way around it. It takes a little while and if I "use it too much" I get the bags, but hey they get me lol!
    Edited by Lichbourne90 on January 12, 2019 1:20PM
  • kojou
    kojou
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    Other.
    Double the duration of the snare immunity so it compares better with forward momentum. :trollface:
    Playing since beta...
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Other.
    TheYKcid wrote: »
    1. Will not reflect anything cast from an 8m range or nearer
    2. Will have infinite reflects for the 6s duration

    1) means it no longer shuts-down ranged builds with no counterplay, and gives them the option to close into melee range if they want to engage the DK—a fair tradeoff since they lose the advantages of range/kiting, and take a big risk as the DK is already one of the most dominant classes within melee range even without reflects. DKs will still get to leverage on the strong points of their class design, ranged builds no longer have to flee on-sight, everyone has more fun.

    2) Wings will scale better when outnumbered (they currently drop too fast if multiple zerglings are spamming projectiles at you). It also disincentivises unhealthy low-risk/high-reward gameplay like snipe-spamming NBs.

    In summary, the OP aspects of wings will be toned-down, while the underperforming aspects will be buffed to compensate. It's win-win. Credits to @ak_pvp for this idea, btw.

    Bump it up to 10m, but yeah its a good idea.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
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  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
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    delete, messed up quote.
    Edited by Hotdog_23 on January 12, 2019 2:32PM
  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
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    jcm2606 wrote: »
    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    I would like to add major expedition and remove it from chains. So we can use it without and enemy just like all the other class can outside of combat. Really who thanks of speed and chains. Wings and speed yes. I don't think wings are nearly as good as you think they are. Very expensive to cast

    Yeah, makes no sense to add Major Expedition on a gapcloser. Don't think adding it to wings is a good idea, though, given the snare immunity. Might overload it a tad.

    And to put it into perspective for the cost of wings compared to Crystallized Shield, the most comparable projectile immunity skill to wings IMO, with the full magicka return from 3 projectiles taken into account, Crystallized Shield costs less than half as much magicka to cast as wings does.

    No more overloaded than boundless storm is a tad with 3 things you get from one press of a button - aoe damage, protection (which both last a good amount of time) and major expedition also.
  • Draxys
    Draxys
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    Other.
    Change nothing because it’s not unbalanced.

    This hasn’t been a legitimate debate in almost 3 years.
    2013

    rip decibel
  • lucky_Sage
    lucky_Sage
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    It can't reflect status effects
    All classes have abilities that can't be reflected.
    Yeah it can be strong in 1v1 situations but out side of that it's not that strong
    DC PC NA
    magdk- main
    magden alt

    AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
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    magblade
    stamplar
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    magsorc

  • Illuvatarr
    Illuvatarr
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    The only change that needs to be made to it is it needs to not reflect ultimate abilities. Only ultimates should counter ultimates. The main issue I do have with it is it encourages more people to use cheese proc sets. It should reflect those.
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    Other.
    Illuvatarr wrote: »
    The only change that needs to be made to it is it needs to not reflect ultimate abilities. Only ultimates should counter ultimates. The main issue I do have with it is it encourages more people to use cheese proc sets. It should reflect those.

    Does it reflect ultimates? Last I checked, it only absorbed them, and even then that was a tough call.
    @jcm2606 | PC NA | CP 940+ | Stormproof | Boethia's Scythe
  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    Change the reflect mechanic.

    Base morph:
    Reduces the damage of all incoming projectiles by 50% for the duration. (All CC and status effects go through)

    Dragon Fire Scale:
    Each time you are hit with a projectile, launch a fireball at the attacker (high damage)

    Reflective Plate:
    Adds root/snare immunity and reflects 1 projectile per target for the duration.
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    jcm2606 wrote: »
    Illuvatarr wrote: »
    The only change that needs to be made to it is it needs to not reflect ultimate abilities. Only ultimates should counter ultimates. The main issue I do have with it is it encourages more people to use cheese proc sets. It should reflect those.

    Does it reflect ultimates? Last I checked, it only absorbed them, and even then that was a tough call.

    They reflect Toxic Barrage and Overload.
    PC NA
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka NB, Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Orc Stamina Warden
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