What changes should be made to reflective scales to make the ability balanced?

Priyasekarssk

Other.

Undefwun wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

DK requires nerf . Give class change token. Its shameless OP class. If you cannot play without cheese class dont bark. DK is super cheese class. Everyone knows it. Atleast NB needs some skill and killabe. DK needs nothing except spamming skills. All will die by itself.
Easiest class to clear VMA and flawless conqueror with little or no skill go no further its DK. Just spam wings everything ranged kill by itself. One guy even soloed fang lair in hard mode veteran lol with DK lol. Another running VMA naked with flawless conqueror. All are in youtube . Its such shameless OP class. Even then ZOs balance team doesnt care about the game and its become laughing stock.

Wings and warden shimmering shield needs nerf. Otherwise everyone will play warden or DK. Almost 90 percent of cyrodil population is DK or stamden. BGs 4 Good DKs or wardens you win always. No matter what opponents are excluding DKs and Wardens.

a) Still didn't tell me your class and build/play style. Worried I will point out how much cheese there is?
b) Are you actually serious or trolling?

I know stam and magblades that have cleared vMA in 25-28 minutes. I know one in particular that has cleared vMA naked and also with only light attacks. They are good players.

90% of all of Cyrodiil? 73.6% of all statistics are made up.
Please quote where ZOS released these figures. Else I am straight up calling you a liar. Lying to push an agenda.

The last time DKs were close to OP was in like 1.6, when you the the almost un-killable, ulti generating, endlessly bat spamming DKs standing in zergs.

No DK (especially stam DKs) can endlessly spam wings, especially under fire. Just a fact. I have just under 12k magicka and just over 500 magicka recovery. Reflective Plate is 3.5k. I'll let you do the math how often I can spam it in and out of combat. Especially if I spam my other OP ability Fossilize at 2.7k magicka.

ONE guy who knows his class exceptionally well solo'd vFL HM? So the other thousands of DKs ranging from bad to good need a nerf because ONE guy in the game is amazing at the class.

I know a whole bunch (not just ONE) of great stamblade bow gankers.. can we remove bows from the game now?
Oh templars heal all the damage I do, can we remove their heals now?

Buddy you're the laughing stock. This is a clear L2P issue.

PS I play my DK less time than I spend fighting against them. I just don't like liars and people that can't be bothered learning and have zero right to call for nerfs.

DKs easily spam wings all the time 500 is maximum regeneration and 12k is maximum magicka a Dk can achieve on argonian lizard set up ?
Who is lying here cry babies? DK wings and warden shimmering shields require serious nerf. L2p other classes.
Pathetic liars.

Priyasekarssk

Other.

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

DK requires nerf . Give class change token. Its shameless OP class. If you cannot play without cheese class dont bark. DK is super cheese class. Everyone knows it. Atleast NB needs some skill and killabe. DK needs nothing except spamming skills. All will die by itself.
Easiest class to clear VMA and flawless conqueror with little or no skill go no further its DK. Just spam wings everything ranged kill by itself. One guy even soloed fang lair in hard mode veteran lol with DK lol. Its such shameless OP class.

Shall we, maybe, learn to elucidate whether we're speaking about stamDK or magDK? Since when stamDK had enough magicka to spam wings? Even magDK can't sustain spamming them all the time (and if you can't just make four light attacks to make wings continuously drop and force DK to recast them again, draining own resources - then sorry, but you shouldn't play ESO at all).

DK have enough regin to spam wings. Don't lie like ***. Give class change token.

Undefwun

Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

DKs easily spam wings all the time 5k is maximum regeneration and 12k is maximum magicka a Dk can achieve on argonian lizard set up ?
Who is lying here cry babies? DK wings and warden shimmering shields require serious nerf. L2p other classes.
Pathetic liars.

I play many other classes. Even put them in my sig.

Still hasn't answered my question what his class is.

Called out, proven wrong. Doesn't care to be educated. Didn't read or comprehend anything.

You are a waste of time. Go play something else. We don't need toxic, ignorant ppl in this community.

Banana

Cloak. Lets ruin that one first

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Someone suggested to have wings reflect more projectiles but only reflect if the caster is greater than 8 yards away, I think that’s a pretty sweet idea since it fulfills the purpose of drawing enemies into melee without completely invalidating projectile-reliant setups.

Vapirko

Just make it deflect instead of reflect.

MartiniDaniels

Make stamina morph with reduced cost, you know like with other stamina morphs

Priyasekarssk

Other.

Banana wrote: »

Cloak. Lets ruin that one first

Cloak is fine. I dont think cloak is OP. Cloak counters has to be buffed. All cloak counters are garbage and nerfed to the ground. NB has shadow image , there shouldn't be a problem in escaping.

Do something for 7-8K weapon and spell damage builds exclusively for NB in PVP. NB has way too high DPS. Just 30-50K dps in 2-3 seconds. There should be damage cap . And Guaranteed crit has to go. 7-8K spell damage with gurnateed crit its insane. ZOs balance team is either incompetent or have personal agenda.

Priyasekarssk

Other.

Vapirko wrote: »

Just make it deflect instead of reflect.

Nah , Just reduce count to 2 or 3 with 6 -10 seconds cool down. DKs & Wardens are given free cheater pass to god mode. Immune to all range damage and keep on spamming it and unkillable. Its hard counter to all range abilities including ultimate. In-fact mag NB & Mag sorc are good class to play , but almost non existent because of this stupid game balance.

ZOs is no 1 cheater here. Only way to kill a DK or warden is to hit 3-5 dawnbreaker at same time in close range. Otherwise they will just keep spamming shimmering shield and wings . There is no other way to kill them. Have 20 DKs or wardens with 3 Healers. Nothing can kill you in cyrodil.

Wings and Shimmering shields requires serious nerf. Very serious. Its not a skill . Its an spammable ultimate in the name of the skill. Its game breakingly overpowered to level that , If you dont have 4 good DKs or wardens in BGs or cyrodil group just quit. Its waste of time.

Galarthor

Other.

This ability is overperforming against certain builds / class - i.e. projectile based builds. For some builds DKs become effectively unkillable.

Why is it overperforming?
Because it can negate the vast majority of the damage of these builds and while at the same time putting hugre pressure on them as well.

The Problem is, that this skill was designed based on the assumption that ranged builds could reliably stay at range for a prolonged period of time against DKs and as such DKs would need a way to mitigate the incoming damage as they are (oftentimes) not able to deal damage back at range. But this assumption is false! In reality all fights between melee and ranged build of equal skill and gear is fought at melee range 99.9% of the time.

The Solution
There are 2 possible solutions for reconciling the design of the ability with the reality of combat in PvP.

1) Have the skill only reflect / absorb projectiles fired beyond a certain range (e.g. 20m). That way DKs can mitigate some of the damage that is dealt outside of their comfort zone, while ranged builds are also forced to leave their comfort zone and both the DK and the ranged opponent are forced to meet somewhere in the middle where neither party is completely happy or unhappy about the range.

2) Have Wings reflect less. Now this solution can be implemented in 2 different ways (again):

I) Make fewer skills reflectable. This runs the risk of making wings useless

II) Enable classes to put consistent pressure on a DK even when they are using wings. This way wings remain useful, while
at the same time not making some classes and builds completely useless against DKs. Hard Counters are a lazy and
*** concept, only liked by those that want to have easy wins.

Personally, I prefer Solution 2.II). It's a solid middle ground where both parties are on an equal footing and skill (rather than class/build design) decides who wins.
Edit: A good example would be to make Rune Cage for Sorc viable again, so they can use Force Pulse instead of Destructive Reach.

This thread here discusses in more detail WHY scales are OP against certain builds and how to address the issue.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/451991/magicka-sorc-vs-dk-reflective-scales/p1

Arguements like "but scales are crap if it's 1v5" aren't really valid as ALL magicka defensive tools suck outside of 1on1 - with the exception of cloak that is! But the imbalance between stamina and magicka defensive tools in this game is a separate issue.

Baconlad

This is ridiculous. The skill is fine.

it reflects....FOUR SKILLS. That's two light attack, reach combos...ANY DK. That spamma wing is going to die from lack resources. It's their protection from ranged builds. I completely disagree with the idea its unbalanced

MashmalloMan

Other.

Didn't you open this same discussion in another thread 4 days ago and this poll is what you came up with?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/451991/magicka-sorc-vs-dk-reflective-scales/p1

"Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced."

Lol come on... How about you go play the class before you ask for nerfs. The skill isn't as good as you think for every situation like you make it seem.

TheYKcid

Other.

Baconlad wrote: »

This is ridiculous. The skill is fine.

it reflects....FOUR SKILLS. That's two light attack, reach combos...ANY DK. That spamma wing is going to die from lack resources. It's their protection from ranged builds. I completely disagree with the idea its unbalanced

Yeah. Sure. And if it worked like Shimmering (purely absorbing) it would be the end of story and that would be that.

However.

You conveniently omitted the fact that all 4 of the attacks towards wings are going to bounce right back at the originating Sorc/Magblade. 2 full GCDs worth of attacks. During these two seconds, deducting 1 GCD for the actual casting of wings, the DK will be able to fit-in one more weave + spammable completely unhindered since they're taking zero incoming pressure.

So you now have a DK that's taken zero damage, while the Sorc/Magblade has taken a full 3 GCDs worth of weaves + spammables.

What does a Sorc/Magblade do in such a scenario, having taken enough damage to whittle half their healthpool away? Well, spend the next 3-4 GCDs on defensive abilties—shields/cloak/heals, you name it—maybe even initially wasting a big chunk of stam on blockcasting, too, since you're well in burst range of a leap at that point. All the while receiving that sweet, sweet DK DoT pressure.

Oh, did I mention you should also expect to get fossilized (or otherwise CC'd) during the above sequence of events? Burn another GCD on breaking free.

The end result of this dynamic is that for every one cast of wings, the DK gains near-total control of the fight for the next 6 to 7 seconds. When people say DKs have 100% uptime on wings, they don't mean it in an absolute sense—that would just be mindless spamming, and is frankly an insult to both parties' intelligence. 100% effective uptime, on the other hand, means it's up whenever you need it, and you can see from the above example that this is really just once every 6-7 seconds.

You can absolutely sustain that on the mag returns from Constitution and Battle Roar, even on a StamDK. The people claiming you can't are either being dishonest, or just haven't learned proper resource management.

Cinbri

Other.

At least fix it. When you activate it and die from snipe coz reflect stoped working for some reason or when you reflect projectile but it not deal damage/cc enemy and just dissapear is very frustrating.

Galarthor

Other.

Baconlad wrote: »

This is ridiculous. The skill is fine.

it reflects....FOUR SKILLS. That's two light attack, reach combos...ANY DK. That spamma wing is going to die from lack resources. It's their protection from ranged builds. I completely disagree with the idea its unbalanced

And how do you mitigate the damage from melee attacks?

These melee damage mitigation tools seem to be quite adequate since DKs are not complaining about being easy kills to melee builds.

So you already got powerful mitigation tools. But on top of that you get an additional "*** you range builds, I win" ability that basically makes it impossible for Sorcs and Magblades to you kill, not only b/c they have to get through an additional layer of defenses but also b/c it reflects the damage back at them. This means you essential deal significantly more damage and are prohibitivly more tanky against range-builds.

So in other words, if a melee builds needs 20k DPS to kill you a range build needs 60k to 100k DPS sp that they can use the 1/5 to 1/3 of their skills / potential that can acutally deal damage to a DK. Sounds like legit balancing ... especially b/c other builds don't have wings and would have to face these 60k to 100k builds as well.

And please spare me the "spamming wings is too expensive" arguement. I meet plenty of DKs every day spamming their wings. Sorcs got bigger sustain issues than DKs do. And sorcs are one of the 2 major groups getting *** by wings.

Nord_Raseri

Other.

make it last longer or cost les. (I do not main a dk. and even on my one dk, I do not even slot wings). I'm happy there is one bane to snipe spammers even if it's not me.

ak_pvp

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

DK requires nerf . Give class change token. Its shameless OP class. If you cannot play without cheese class dont bark. DK is super cheese class. Everyone knows it. Atleast NB needs some skill and killabe. DK needs nothing except spamming skills. All will die by itself.
Easiest class to clear VMA and flawless conqueror with little or no skill go no further its DK. Just spam wings everything ranged kill by itself. One guy even soloed fang lair in hard mode veteran lol with DK lol. Another running VMA naked with flawless conqueror. All are in youtube . Its such shameless OP class. Even then ZOs balance team doesnt care about the game and its become laughing stock.

Wings and warden shimmering shield needs nerf. Otherwise everyone will play warden or DK. Almost 90 percent of cyrodil population is DK or stamden. BGs 4 Good DKs or wardens you win always. No matter what opponents are excluding DKs and Wardens.

a) Still didn't tell me your class and build/play style. Worried I will point out how much cheese there is?
b) Are you actually serious or trolling?

I know stam and magblades that have cleared vMA in 25-28 minutes. I know one in particular that has cleared vMA naked and also with only light attacks. They are good players.

90% of all of Cyrodiil? 73.6% of all statistics are made up.
Please quote where ZOS released these figures. Else I am straight up calling you a liar. Lying to push an agenda.

The last time DKs were close to OP was in like 1.6, when you the the almost un-killable, ulti generating, endlessly bat spamming DKs standing in zergs.

No DK (especially stam DKs) can endlessly spam wings, especially under fire. Just a fact. I have just under 12k magicka and just over 500 magicka recovery. Reflective Plate is 3.5k. I'll let you do the math how often I can spam it in and out of combat. Especially if I spam my other OP ability Fossilize at 2.7k magicka.

ONE guy who knows his class exceptionally well solo'd vFL HM? So the other thousands of DKs ranging from bad to good need a nerf because ONE guy in the game is amazing at the class.

I know a whole bunch (not just ONE) of great stamblade bow gankers.. can we remove bows from the game now?
Oh templars heal all the damage I do, can we remove their heals now?

Buddy you're the laughing stock. This is a clear L2P issue.

PS I play my DK less time than I spend fighting against them. I just don't like liars and people that can't be bothered learning and have zero right to call for nerfs.

DKs easily spam wings all the time 500 is maximum regeneration and 12k is maximum magicka a Dk can achieve on argonian lizard set up ?
Who is lying here cry babies? DK wings and warden shimmering shields require serious nerf. L2p other classes.
Pathetic liars.

My dude. 4 DK in a BG is a terrible setup. Opinions on wings aside.

MDK takes the spot of control build, which is a 1 only, and in which case a warden is equal if not better with slightly better AoE timing, healing and snares, though DK is better ST dmg and CC. The other builds would be 1 templar and 2 deeps. Generally stamden and stamsorc cause good AoE.

Undefwun

Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.

TheYKcid wrote: »

What does a Sorc/Magblade do in such a scenario, having taken enough damage to whittle half their healthpool away? Well, spend the next 3-4 GCDs on defensive abilties—shields/cloak/heals, you name it—maybe even initially wasting a big chunk of stam on blockcasting, too, since you're well in burst range of a leap at that point. All the while receiving that sweet, sweet DK DoT pressure.

Well since my magblade is slow in comparison to stam toons in general, i run escapist poisons on my resto backbar... also resto attacks go through wings.

Which is why 1v1s can go forever, they have hard time catching me and unless everything goes 100% right I can't burst them.... I've gone 5 minutes a few times with the result going either way.

Sharee

Other.

Galarthor wrote: »

This ability is overperforming against certain builds / class - i.e. projectile based builds. For some builds DKs become effectively unkillable.

Why is it overperforming?
Because it can negate the vast majority of the damage of these builds and while at the same time putting hugre pressure on them as well.

The Problem is, that this skill was designed based on the assumption that ranged builds could reliably stay at range for a prolonged period of time against DKs and as such DKs would need a way to mitigate the incoming damage as they are (oftentimes) not able to deal damage back at range. But this assumption is false! In reality all fights between melee and ranged build of equal skill and gear is fought at melee range 99.9% of the time.

The Solution

... do not rely purely on projectiles when fighting a DK?

I mean, *you* made a build that is weak to wings, and then you complain wings are too powerful and need to be nerfed?

As i see it, the "problem" here is entirely of your own making.

NyassaV

Other.

reflect 1-2 skills per person

Undefwun

Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.

TheYKcid wrote: »

Yeah. Sure. And if it worked like Shimmering (purely absorbing) it would be the end of story and that would be that.

However.

You conveniently omitted the fact that all 4 of the attacks towards wings are going to bounce right back at the originating Sorc/Magblade. 2 full GCDs worth of attacks. During these two seconds, deducting 1 GCD for the actual casting of wings, the DK will be able to fit-in one more weave + spammable completely unhindered since they're taking zero incoming pressure.

So you now have a DK that's taken zero damage, while the Sorc/Magblade has taken a full 3 GCDs worth of weaves + spammables.

What does a Sorc/Magblade do in such a scenario, having taken enough damage to whittle half their healthpool away? Well, spend the next 3-4 GCDs on defensive abilties—shields/cloak/heals, you name it—maybe even initially wasting a big chunk of stam on blockcasting, too, since you're well in burst range of a leap at that point. All the while receiving that sweet, sweet DK DoT pressure.

Oh, did I mention you should also expect to get fossilized (or otherwise CC'd) during the above sequence of events? Burn another GCD on breaking free.

The end result of this dynamic is that for every one cast of wings, the DK gains near-total control of the fight for the next 6 to 7 seconds. When people say DKs have 100% uptime on wings, they don't mean it in an absolute sense—that would just be mindless spamming, and is frankly an insult to both parties' intelligence. 100% effective uptime, on the other hand, means it's up whenever you need it, and you can see from the above example that this is really just once every 6-7 seconds.

You can absolutely sustain that on the mag returns from Constitution and Battle Roar, even on a StamDK. The people claiming you can't are either being dishonest, or just haven't learned proper resource management.

I just wanted to address your post again...

See how you wrote it. Calm, no name calling, factual, displaying actual knowledge of the game. Not screeching, throwing your toys and stomping your feet like a five year old on a sugar rush and pulling random statistics out of thin air.

Which leads to an actual discussion.

But what is the scope we are talking about here. The described scenario seems to me like a duel. So are we balancing based on duels? I agree it is more sustainable in that 1v1 situation and also stronger.

I play mainly BGs, you don't get 5 minutes (or 1 even) to duke it out 1v1, or with full resources.
Most BGs lately have at least 1 bowtard on the team, and assorted ranged fighters, or a ranged ability slotted (for example javelin on my stamplar). Those wings rarely last the full duration, sometimes maybe one GCD. So while I'm dealing with a stam sorc or similar, he'll have his team mate pinging away at me from way outside my range with snipe, and one of the 3rd teams mag sorcs just spamming abilities seeing if he can't take both of us out from medium range.

Now in that scenario which is more the norm for me, Reflective Plate is not cheap or endlessly spamable as claimed by others in this thread. Especially if I am trying to Fossilize the melee player. The second my wings go down that bowtard will have me out of action for 2 seconds with Draining Shot and I am a sitting duck.

Also the old paper, scissors, rock thing we have going in this game, not every class/build is meant to be able
beat every other class/build. I guess the idea is that you have someone in your group that covers the melee portion of opponents while you provide support via AOEs or whatever when you can't spam your direct damage projectile attacks.

On my magblade I see one of my team mates in a fight with a DK, at the least I am just gonna resto heavy attack, providing healing to my team mate while doing dmg, proccing my escapist poison. Or resto light attacking, building my bow stack, trying to count down when his wings will drop and then fear before he wings up again and drop my burst combo.

Lifemocker

Other.

No change needed.

Derra

Other.

leeux wrote: »

Is not unbalanced... it doesn't need changing.

I'm not a DK main and I often had to fight against DKs that use this against me, and it's totally fine... I stop attacking them, and switch to other targets, or back off... so it goes against me in that case, but I'm not gonna say it's unbalanced.

It's just a hard counter for range abilities, within the limit of 4 projectiles per cast, and the DK has to spend a GCD casting this ability instead of doing damage.

And it's a signature ability of DKs... I wouldn't want them to get nerfed of their signature abilities, the same I don't want my class to get nerfed of its signature abilities.

Please, stop asking for the developers to make the game simpler, and boring, where everything is an homogeneous and boring.

EDIT: missing word

Hardcounters are boring though?

Personally i´d like reflect to be unlimited for a shorter duration again.
Alternatively have it turned into sth like shuffle with like 1 or 2 reflected projectiles + long duration projectile dmg decrease by x%.

Hotdog_23

How about giving a DK a range decent ranged attack within our skill line? Honestly I don't even slot wings on my mag or stam dk. Maybe I am just not good enough to know how to use it maybe if they added Major Expedition like I suggested then maybe I would slot it.

Vildebill

Biased poll as hell, don't change the ability at all.

WaltherCarraway

Other.

l2fp

TheYKcid

Other.

Undefwun wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Yeah. Sure. And if it worked like Shimmering (purely absorbing) it would be the end of story and that would be that.

However.

You conveniently omitted the fact that all 4 of the attacks towards wings are going to bounce right back at the originating Sorc/Magblade. 2 full GCDs worth of attacks. During these two seconds, deducting 1 GCD for the actual casting of wings, the DK will be able to fit-in one more weave + spammable completely unhindered since they're taking zero incoming pressure.

So you now have a DK that's taken zero damage, while the Sorc/Magblade has taken a full 3 GCDs worth of weaves + spammables.

What does a Sorc/Magblade do in such a scenario, having taken enough damage to whittle half their healthpool away? Well, spend the next 3-4 GCDs on defensive abilties—shields/cloak/heals, you name it—maybe even initially wasting a big chunk of stam on blockcasting, too, since you're well in burst range of a leap at that point. All the while receiving that sweet, sweet DK DoT pressure.

Oh, did I mention you should also expect to get fossilized (or otherwise CC'd) during the above sequence of events? Burn another GCD on breaking free.

The end result of this dynamic is that for every one cast of wings, the DK gains near-total control of the fight for the next 6 to 7 seconds. When people say DKs have 100% uptime on wings, they don't mean it in an absolute sense—that would just be mindless spamming, and is frankly an insult to both parties' intelligence. 100% effective uptime, on the other hand, means it's up whenever you need it, and you can see from the above example that this is really just once every 6-7 seconds.

You can absolutely sustain that on the mag returns from Constitution and Battle Roar, even on a StamDK. The people claiming you can't are either being dishonest, or just haven't learned proper resource management.

I just wanted to address your post again...

See how you wrote it. Calm, no name calling, factual, displaying actual knowledge of the game. Not screeching, throwing your toys and stomping your feet like a five year old on a sugar rush and pulling random statistics out of thin air.

Which leads to an actual discussion.

But what is the scope we are talking about here. The described scenario seems to me like a duel. So are we balancing based on duels? I agree it is more sustainable in that 1v1 situation and also stronger.

I play mainly BGs, you don't get 5 minutes (or 1 even) to duke it out 1v1, or with full resources.
Most BGs lately have at least 1 bowtard on the team, and assorted ranged fighters, or a ranged ability slotted (for example javelin on my stamplar). Those wings rarely last the full duration, sometimes maybe one GCD. So while I'm dealing with a stam sorc or similar, he'll have his team mate pinging away at me from way outside my range with snipe, and one of the 3rd teams mag sorcs just spamming abilities seeing if he can't take both of us out from medium range.

Now in that scenario which is more the norm for me, Reflective Plate is not cheap or endlessly spamable as claimed by others in this thread. Especially if I am trying to Fossilize the melee player. The second my wings go down that bowtard will have me out of action for 2 seconds with Draining Shot and I am a sitting duck.

Also the old paper, scissors, rock thing we have going in this game, not every class/build is meant to be able
beat every other class/build. I guess the idea is that you have someone in your group that covers the melee portion of opponents while you provide support via AOEs or whatever when you can't spam your direct damage projectile attacks.

On my magblade I see one of my team mates in a fight with a DK, at the least I am just gonna resto heavy attack, providing healing to my team mate while doing dmg, proccing my escapist poison. Or resto light attacking, building my bow stack, trying to count down when his wings will drop and then fear before he wings up again and drop my burst combo.

Then we both agree that wings are overperforming in 1v1s and underperforming during 1vX.

That doesn't even-out to make them balanced on the whole, though. It just makes them doubly-broken and an example of bad design.

My suggestion on page 1 addresses both points and lessens the performance disparity of the skill. On one hand it's an actual buff—with infinite reflects, you'll never have to worry about bow zerglings overwhelming your wings from 41m away, for instance.

On the other, ranged builds now have the option to actually engage you one on one, if they take the risk of moving into melee distance and foregoing the advantages of range—in which case there's no longer a need for wings, and the DK still dominates regardless. Rather than immediately streaking/cloaking away or trolltanking you for the next 5 minutes like they would use to. It strikes me as a more satisfying outcome for both sides.

WaltherCarraway

Other.

wow, seemed like a magsorc was unable to kite a dk using crushing shock, curse and comet + rune cage combo or perhaps crystals and all other stuffs when DK WINGS WAS NOT UP... did i forget streak, boundless storm and Overload??

for those who claimed wing spammin dk.. good luck on actually 'spamming' an super expensive skill lol

some ppl here just want dks to become feeble AP mule as if they haven't had enough advantages over them.. ik some gonna talk about how tanky dks are based on resistances on paper... lmao

TheYKcid

Other.

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

wow, seemed like a magsorc was unable to kite a dk using crushing shock, curse and comet + rune cage combo or perhaps crystals and all other stuffs when DK WINGS WAS NOT UP... did i forget streak, boundless storm and Overload??

for those who claimed wing spammin dk.. good luck on actually 'spamming' an super expensive skill lol

some ppl here just want dks to become feeble AP mule as if they haven't had enough advantages over them.. ik some gonna talk about how dks are tanky based on resistances on paper... lmao

That's a pretty disingenuous post, man.

No decent DK literally spams wings, because they don't need to. Just a single cast guarantees control of the fight for the next 6+ seconds, and I wrote a very detailed breakdown of why several posts above. I'm also aware you're a magDK and thus have zero excuse for not sustaining wings when even stamDKs can maintain full effective uptime in a 1v1.

Pretending that Sorcs can endlessly kite when you have chains & leap to close the gap, followed by snares, roots and stuns to maintain distance, is also pretty dishonest. Nearly all fights end in melee range, whether due to gapclosers or because the opponent is forced to engage over an objective.

Let's also not kid ourselves that one Curse proc every 6 seconds along with Force Pulse spam—with NO light attacks—is going to pose the slightest danger to you, when a full, unreflected Sorc combo is barely enough to get the average DK into execute range in the first place.

I've tangled with you in Cyro, so I know you're good enough to understand these concepts; that makes your disingenuity even worse though. And defending an absolute hardcounter just makes it look like you lack the confidence to take legitimate Ws in an actual competitive setting.

FrancisCrawford

Other.

leeux wrote: »

Is not unbalanced... it doesn't need changing.

I'm not a DK main and I often had to fight against DKs that use this against me, and it's totally fine... I stop attacking them, and switch to other targets, or back off... so it goes against me in that case, but I'm not gonna say it's unbalanced.

It's just a hard counter for range abilities, within the limit of 4 projectiles per cast, and the DK has to spend a GCD casting this ability instead of doing damage.

And it's a signature ability of DKs... I wouldn't want them to get nerfed of their signature abilities, the same I don't want my class to get nerfed of its signature abilities.

Please, stop asking for the developers to make the game simpler, and boring, where everything is an homogeneous and boring.

EDIT: missing word

This.