What changes should be made to reflective scales to make the ability balanced?

Elusiin

As it stands, dragon knights hard counter any projectile builds limiting options for ranged casters and archers. Not only can they negate a large number of combat abilities, they're free to engage, spamming talons and lava whip you to death (which also heals them significantly). This single ability limits build diversity as everyone is forced to drop projectile abilities in favor of DoTs and AoEs. For abilities like destructive reach, not only do they have to replace it with another damaging ability, they also have to add a hard CC ability to their bar. This breaks many builds as there are many important skills, and only a few available slots. Additionally, those with a bow or staff are unable to light attack weave, which further reduces damage and ultimate regeneration.

To summarize:
It's a spammable self buff that nullifies builds using projectiles, light attack weaving on staffs and bows, and allows the caster to fight while being, in some cases, invincible. All of this makes it a broken mechanic.

ccmedaddy

"Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced."

lol biased poll is biased.

With that said, I'd be ok with options #1 and #3. They sound like they could be buffs for my playstyle.

leeux

Other.

Is not unbalanced... it doesn't need changing.

I'm not a DK main and I often had to fight against DKs that use this against me, and it's totally fine... I stop attacking them, and switch to other targets, or back off... so it goes against me in that case, but I'm not gonna say it's unbalanced.

It's just a hard counter for range abilities, within the limit of 4 projectiles per cast, and the DK has to spend a GCD casting this ability instead of doing damage.

And it's a signature ability of DKs... I wouldn't want them to get nerfed of their signature abilities, the same I don't want my class to get nerfed of its signature abilities.

Please, stop asking for the developers to make the game simpler, and boring, where everything is an homogeneous and boring.

EDIT: missing word

Sanctum74

Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.

So with that logic then I guess shields negate every skill in the game so they should be nerfed too or...

You could use one of the counters available to you that work for everyone else.

Don't use a role playing pet build and expect it to be competitive.

Keep practicing and accept that you're not going to win every fight and not everyone can kill you either.

It's just a game, stop with the nerfs!

Priyasekarssk

Other.

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

As it stands, dragon knights hard counter any projectile builds limiting options for ranged casters and archers. Not only can they negate a large number of combat abilities, they're free to engage, spamming talons and lava whip you to death (which also heals them significantly). This single ability limits build diversity as everyone is forced to drop projectile abilities in favor of DoTs and AoEs. For abilities like destructive reach, not only do they have to replace it with another damaging ability, they also have to add a hard CC ability to their bar. This breaks many builds as there are many important skills, and only a few available slots. Additionally, those with a bow or staff are unable to light attack weave, which further reduces damage and ultimate regeneration.

To summarize:
It's a spammable self buff that nullifies builds using projectiles, light attack weaving on staffs and bows, and allows the caster to fight while being, in some cases, invincible. All of this makes it a broken mechanic.

Reduce reflect count to 3 or 2 and include lethal arrow as well. 4 is way too much. Garbage game balance. No wonder everyone is DK . VMA is a cakewalk with DK. DKs can solo final boss of fang lair. lol. All we have to do is spam wings. *** game balance.

NBrookus

1) works on 3 projectiles per enemy per cast
2) deflects ranged projectiles, including birds and sloads, instead of reflecting them
3) optional: x% chance to reflect the projectile instead of deflecting, to encourage intelligent play/counterplay instead of just continuing to spam attacks into wings
4) one morph continues to provide the 2 seconds of snare immunity. The other morph gets a new bonus effect or buff.

TheYKcid

Other.

1. Will not reflect anything cast from an 8m range or nearer
2. Will have infinite reflects for the 6s duration

1) means it no longer shuts-down ranged builds with no counterplay, and gives them the option to close into melee range if they want to engage the DK—a fair tradeoff since they lose the advantages of range/kiting, and take a big risk as the DK is already one of the most dominant classes within melee range even without reflects. DKs will still get to leverage on the strong points of their class design, ranged builds no longer have to flee on-sight, everyone has more fun.

2) Wings will scale better when outnumbered (they currently drop too fast if multiple zerglings are spamming projectiles at you). It also disincentivises unhealthy low-risk/high-reward gameplay like snipe-spamming NBs.

In summary, the OP aspects of wings will be toned-down, while the underperforming aspects will be buffed to compensate. It's win-win. Credits to @ak_pvp for this idea, btw.

Daedric_NB_187

Other.

ccmedaddy wrote: »

"Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced."

lol biased poll is biased.

Took the words out of my mouth. Siht doesn't need to be changed.

usmcjdking

TheYKcid wrote: »

1. Will not reflect anything cast from an 8m range or nearer
2. Will have infinite reflects for the 6s duration

1) means it no longer shuts-down ranged builds with no counterplay, and gives them the option to close into melee range if they want to engage the DK—a fair tradeoff since they lose the advantages of range/kiting, and take a big risk as the DK is already one of the most dominant classes within melee range even without reflects. DKs will still get to leverage on the strong points of their class design, ranged builds no longer have to flee on-sight, everyone has more fun.

2) Wings will scale better when outnumbered (they currently drop too fast if multiple zerglings are spamming projectiles at you). It also disincentivises unhealthy low-risk/high-reward gameplay like snipe-spamming NBs.

In summary, the OP aspects of wings will be toned-down, while the underperforming aspects will be buffed to compensate. It's win-win. Credits to @ak_pvp for this idea, btw.

I prefer this.

The Uninvited

You know what's a broken mechanic? Implosion.

It's an execute that doesn't cost anything and doesn't even require a slot on your skill bar.

Gilvoth

Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.

.

usmcjdking

The Uninvited wrote: »

You know what's a broken mechanic? Implosion.

It's an execute that doesn't cost anything and doesn't even require a slot on your skill bar.

Implosion isn't broken. Random number determinant & implosion is broken.

Gilvoth

Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.

.

TheYKcid

Other.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

heres a hint tho

1
they cant reflect the bow ult turret

2
count to 3 after they flap wing, and the reflect is over (unless they spam it)

3
when they are near death, it wont matter if they spam wings, just unload all u got on them because their health will go down faster then yours, they'll die.

Let's be real you're not killing anyone with or without wings.

jcm2606

Other.

TheYKcid wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

heres a hint tho

1
they cant reflect the bow ult turret

2
count to 3 after they flap wing, and the reflect is over (unless they spam it)

3
when they are near death, it wont matter if they spam wings, just unload all u got on them because their health will go down faster then yours, they'll die.

Let's be real you're not killing anyone with or without wings.

F.

Hotdog_23

I would like to add major expedition and remove it from chains. So we can use it without and enemy just like all the other class can outside of combat. Really who thanks of speed and chains. Wings and speed yes. I don't think wings are nearly as good as you think they are. Very expensive to cast

Heimpai

Funny, i went from my magblade to my magsorc (haven’t touched in 4+ months) and dk‘s are no longer an issue

For me anyways

jcm2606

Other.

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

I would like to add major expedition and remove it from chains. So we can use it without and enemy just like all the other class can outside of combat. Really who thanks of speed and chains. Wings and speed yes. I don't think wings are nearly as good as you think they are. Very expensive to cast

Yeah, makes no sense to add Major Expedition on a gapcloser. Don't think adding it to wings is a good idea, though, given the snare immunity. Might overload it a tad.

And to put it into perspective for the cost of wings compared to Crystallized Shield, the most comparable projectile immunity skill to wings IMO, with the full magicka return from 3 projectiles taken into account, Crystallized Shield costs less than half as much magicka to cast as wings does.

Lichbourne90

Other.

Only change I'd make is change the morph with snare immunity to 4 seconds to bring it in line with forward momentum. Sure I can see how some players have trouble with wings, but i play both a stam dk and mag dk that use wings and good players still find a way around it. It takes a little while and if I "use it too much" I get the bags, but hey they get me lol!

KhajiitFelix

Other.

It's balanced compared to your cloak sniping.

kojou

Other.

Double the duration of the snare immunity so it compares better with forward momentum.

Toc de Malsvi

Other.

TheYKcid wrote: »

1. Will not reflect anything cast from an 8m range or nearer
2. Will have infinite reflects for the 6s duration

1) means it no longer shuts-down ranged builds with no counterplay, and gives them the option to close into melee range if they want to engage the DK—a fair tradeoff since they lose the advantages of range/kiting, and take a big risk as the DK is already one of the most dominant classes within melee range even without reflects. DKs will still get to leverage on the strong points of their class design, ranged builds no longer have to flee on-sight, everyone has more fun.

2) Wings will scale better when outnumbered (they currently drop too fast if multiple zerglings are spamming projectiles at you). It also disincentivises unhealthy low-risk/high-reward gameplay like snipe-spamming NBs.

In summary, the OP aspects of wings will be toned-down, while the underperforming aspects will be buffed to compensate. It's win-win. Credits to @ak_pvp for this idea, btw.

Bump it up to 10m, but yeah its a good idea.

RinaldoGandolphi

Nothing about reflective scales needs to be changed. The skill has been nerfed numerous times over the years. There are tons of unreflectable abilities in the game now.

If you choose to be a reach spamming sorc or chose to play a ranged magblade spamming funnel health then tough! The DK is your hard counter, deal with it. You can easily cloak or streak away. You control engagement of that fight, that’s balanced.

DK has no Major Expedition, Chains has ME but it’s so buggy, does so low damage, and doesn’t work half the time, and costs so much most folks don’t use it.

Mag DK is the easiest class in the game to kite. Reflective Scales is the only thing that keeps ranged classes from just picking us off from range with no chance for ya to catch them.

Most who complain about MagDK have no idea the struggles we go though to play solo open world. The margin for error on mag dk is much smaller than other specs due to skills costing more, less sustain, lack of execute, lack of mobility being forced to tank hits and try not to be overwhelmed and a resource restore based on ults that’s been nerfed so many times it’s worse than every other classes sustain.

If you can’t kill a DK it’s because you choose to hamper your setup in such a way. Ranged Sorcs and Magblades are strong, projectile builds in general in many cases can outburst a melee setup

Meleee mag DK is weaker than a ranged mag sorc for example in burst damage, we have to use leap just to kill someone, a mag sorc can get more burst without even using an ultimate.

MagDK is pretty balanced now it’s not the strongest setup but it’s also not the weakest it’s right in the middle which is where it should be.

I’d rather they buff the damage and reduce the cost on concealed weapon, and make mag sorc not reliant on a master destro. Merging DK isn’t the way, fixing mag sorc and mag blade is the way forward

Hotdog_23

delete, messed up quote.

Hotdog_23

jcm2606 wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

I would like to add major expedition and remove it from chains. So we can use it without and enemy just like all the other class can outside of combat. Really who thanks of speed and chains. Wings and speed yes. I don't think wings are nearly as good as you think they are. Very expensive to cast

Yeah, makes no sense to add Major Expedition on a gapcloser. Don't think adding it to wings is a good idea, though, given the snare immunity. Might overload it a tad.

And to put it into perspective for the cost of wings compared to Crystallized Shield, the most comparable projectile immunity skill to wings IMO, with the full magicka return from 3 projectiles taken into account, Crystallized Shield costs less than half as much magicka to cast as wings does.

No more overloaded than boundless storm is a tad with 3 things you get from one press of a button - aoe damage, protection (which both last a good amount of time) and major expedition also.

Draxys

Other.

Change nothing because it’s not unbalanced.

This hasn’t been a legitimate debate in almost 3 years.

lucky_Sage

It can't reflect status effects
All classes have abilities that can't be reflected.
Yeah it can be strong in 1v1 situations but out side of that it's not that strong

Illuvatarr

The only change that needs to be made to it is it needs to not reflect ultimate abilities. Only ultimates should counter ultimates. The main issue I do have with it is it encourages more people to use cheese proc sets. It should reflect those.

jcm2606

Other.

Illuvatarr wrote: »

The only change that needs to be made to it is it needs to not reflect ultimate abilities. Only ultimates should counter ultimates. The main issue I do have with it is it encourages more people to use cheese proc sets. It should reflect those.

Does it reflect ultimates? Last I checked, it only absorbed them, and even then that was a tough call.

Solariken

Change the reflect mechanic.

Base morph:
Reduces the damage of all incoming projectiles by 50% for the duration. (All CC and status effects go through)

Dragon Fire Scale:
Each time you are hit with a projectile, launch a fireball at the attacker (high damage)

Reflective Plate:
Adds root/snare immunity and reflects 1 projectile per target for the duration.

NBrookus

jcm2606 wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

The only change that needs to be made to it is it needs to not reflect ultimate abilities. Only ultimates should counter ultimates. The main issue I do have with it is it encourages more people to use cheese proc sets. It should reflect those.

Does it reflect ultimates? Last I checked, it only absorbed them, and even then that was a tough call.

They reflect Toxic Barrage and Overload.