What changes should be made to reflective scales to make the ability balanced?

paulsimonps

Other.

I have a suggestion for those with trouble against the DK Wings:

Priyasekarssk

Other.

Undefwun wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Yeah. Sure. And if it worked like Shimmering (purely absorbing) it would be the end of story and that would be that.

However.

You conveniently omitted the fact that all 4 of the attacks towards wings are going to bounce right back at the originating Sorc/Magblade. 2 full GCDs worth of attacks. During these two seconds, deducting 1 GCD for the actual casting of wings, the DK will be able to fit-in one more weave + spammable completely unhindered since they're taking zero incoming pressure.

So you now have a DK that's taken zero damage, while the Sorc/Magblade has taken a full 3 GCDs worth of weaves + spammables.

What does a Sorc/Magblade do in such a scenario, having taken enough damage to whittle half their healthpool away? Well, spend the next 3-4 GCDs on defensive abilties—shields/cloak/heals, you name it—maybe even initially wasting a big chunk of stam on blockcasting, too, since you're well in burst range of a leap at that point. All the while receiving that sweet, sweet DK DoT pressure.

Oh, did I mention you should also expect to get fossilized (or otherwise CC'd) during the above sequence of events? Burn another GCD on breaking free.

The end result of this dynamic is that for every one cast of wings, the DK gains near-total control of the fight for the next 6 to 7 seconds. When people say DKs have 100% uptime on wings, they don't mean it in an absolute sense—that would just be mindless spamming, and is frankly an insult to both parties' intelligence. 100% effective uptime, on the other hand, means it's up whenever you need it, and you can see from the above example that this is really just once every 6-7 seconds.

You can absolutely sustain that on the mag returns from Constitution and Battle Roar, even on a StamDK. The people claiming you can't are either being dishonest, or just haven't learned proper resource management.

I just wanted to address your post again...

See how you wrote it. Calm, no name calling, factual, displaying actual knowledge of the game. Not screeching, throwing your toys and stomping your feet like a five year old on a sugar rush and pulling random statistics out of thin air.

Which leads to an actual discussion.

But what is the scope we are talking about here. The described scenario seems to me like a duel. So are we balancing based on duels? I agree it is more sustainable in that 1v1 situation and also stronger.

I play mainly BGs, you don't get 5 minutes (or 1 even) to duke it out 1v1, or with full resources.
Most BGs lately have at least 1 bowtard on the team, and assorted ranged fighters, or a ranged ability slotted (for example javelin on my stamplar). Those wings rarely last the full duration, sometimes maybe one GCD. So while I'm dealing with a stam sorc or similar, he'll have his team mate pinging away at me from way outside my range with snipe, and one of the 3rd teams mag sorcs just spamming abilities seeing if he can't take both of us out from medium range.

Now in that scenario which is more the norm for me, Reflective Plate is not cheap or endlessly spamable as claimed by others in this thread. Especially if I am trying to Fossilize the melee player. The second my wings go down that bowtard will have me out of action for 2 seconds with Draining Shot and I am a sitting duck.

Also the old paper, scissors, rock thing we have going in this game, not every class/build is meant to be able
beat every other class/build. I guess the idea is that you have someone in your group that covers the melee portion of opponents while you provide support via AOEs or whatever when you can't spam your direct damage projectile attacks.

On my magblade I see one of my team mates in a fight with a DK, at the least I am just gonna resto heavy attack, providing healing to my team mate while doing dmg, proccing my escapist poison. Or resto light attacking, building my bow stack, trying to count down when his wings will drop and then fear before he wings up again and drop my burst combo.

[edited to remove baiting comment]

Priyasekarssk

Other.

paulsimonps wrote: »

I have a suggestion for those with trouble against the DK Wings:

My suggestion , dont play DK . Play against good DK with a mage sorc and post a video of it in 1v1 . Dont vomit *** just because you have keyboard.

Edziu

Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Yeah. Sure. And if it worked like Shimmering (purely absorbing) it would be the end of story and that would be that.

However.

You conveniently omitted the fact that all 4 of the attacks towards wings are going to bounce right back at the originating Sorc/Magblade. 2 full GCDs worth of attacks. During these two seconds, deducting 1 GCD for the actual casting of wings, the DK will be able to fit-in one more weave + spammable completely unhindered since they're taking zero incoming pressure.

So you now have a DK that's taken zero damage, while the Sorc/Magblade has taken a full 3 GCDs worth of weaves + spammables.

What does a Sorc/Magblade do in such a scenario, having taken enough damage to whittle half their healthpool away? Well, spend the next 3-4 GCDs on defensive abilties—shields/cloak/heals, you name it—maybe even initially wasting a big chunk of stam on blockcasting, too, since you're well in burst range of a leap at that point. All the while receiving that sweet, sweet DK DoT pressure.

Oh, did I mention you should also expect to get fossilized (or otherwise CC'd) during the above sequence of events? Burn another GCD on breaking free.

The end result of this dynamic is that for every one cast of wings, the DK gains near-total control of the fight for the next 6 to 7 seconds. When people say DKs have 100% uptime on wings, they don't mean it in an absolute sense—that would just be mindless spamming, and is frankly an insult to both parties' intelligence. 100% effective uptime, on the other hand, means it's up whenever you need it, and you can see from the above example that this is really just once every 6-7 seconds.

You can absolutely sustain that on the mag returns from Constitution and Battle Roar, even on a StamDK. The people claiming you can't are either being dishonest, or just haven't learned proper resource management.

I just wanted to address your post again...

See how you wrote it. Calm, no name calling, factual, displaying actual knowledge of the game. Not screeching, throwing your toys and stomping your feet like a five year old on a sugar rush and pulling random statistics out of thin air.

Which leads to an actual discussion.

But what is the scope we are talking about here. The described scenario seems to me like a duel. So are we balancing based on duels? I agree it is more sustainable in that 1v1 situation and also stronger.

I play mainly BGs, you don't get 5 minutes (or 1 even) to duke it out 1v1, or with full resources.
Most BGs lately have at least 1 bowtard on the team, and assorted ranged fighters, or a ranged ability slotted (for example javelin on my stamplar). Those wings rarely last the full duration, sometimes maybe one GCD. So while I'm dealing with a stam sorc or similar, he'll have his team mate pinging away at me from way outside my range with snipe, and one of the 3rd teams mag sorcs just spamming abilities seeing if he can't take both of us out from medium range.

Now in that scenario which is more the norm for me, Reflective Plate is not cheap or endlessly spamable as claimed by others in this thread. Especially if I am trying to Fossilize the melee player. The second my wings go down that bowtard will have me out of action for 2 seconds with Draining Shot and I am a sitting duck.

Also the old paper, scissors, rock thing we have going in this game, not every class/build is meant to be able
beat every other class/build. I guess the idea is that you have someone in your group that covers the melee portion of opponents while you provide support via AOEs or whatever when you can't spam your direct damage projectile attacks.

On my magblade I see one of my team mates in a fight with a DK, at the least I am just gonna resto heavy attack, providing healing to my team mate while doing dmg, proccing my escapist poison. Or resto light attacking, building my bow stack, trying to count down when his wings will drop and then fear before he wings up again and drop my burst combo.

[edited to remove baiting comment]

[edited to remove baiting comment]

Neloth

Other.

Easy

1) it should not shut down range (like magblade) builds in 1vs1, so it needs a nerf

2) it’s just a bad skill when fighting outnumbered, so it needs a buff

Nerf it down to reflect 2 projectiles per person, but with the unlimited total amount of projectiles fired at you from multiple persons. This way you can spam wings until you reach some safe los, being completely immune to range zergs, but in 1vs1 wings can be removed by 1weave + skill, which provides reasonable counterplay

paulsimonps

Other.

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I have a suggestion for those with trouble against the DK Wings:

My suggestion , dont play DK . Play against good DK with a mage sorc and post a video of it in 1v1 . Dont vomit *** just because you have keyboard.

First off, PvP SHOULD NOT BE BALANCED AROUND 1v1!

Second, 9/11 Sorcerer Damage abilities are unreflectable, and so are 4/5 Damage abilities in the Destruction staff Skill Line.

Destructive Touch
Crystal Shards
Overload

Those 3 can be reflected, but how about using something else if fighting a DKs? I have had several MagSorcs kill my DK with wings by them playing and thinking on their feet.

Also 3rd, its more fun to post it than to 1v1 cause F that.

twofaced

@paulsimonps
Problem is in latest LA meta, at least play a game to argue here lol

Spartabunny08

Other.

My ideal change to this ability would simply be to have the animation more obvious throughout the duration of the skill, so I know when not to shoot myself in the face.

paulsimonps

Other.

twofaced wrote: »

@paulsimonps
Problem is in latest LA meta, at least play a game to argue here lol

Nobody said you had to light attack them, lightning or resto heavy, while lower dps is still not reflectable. As well in larger fights light attacks are commonly used against them to break the skill fast so as to either drain their resources or to fire high hitter projectile once the skill is down.

Also I am pretty sure I have played a game, or was it all a lie, is it all in my head? Is any of this real? Who am I writting to? Are you real? OMG I need answers!

Illuvatarr

The only changes that make sense are:

1) It should reflect proc sets
2) It should not reflect projectiles if the fight is in melee range.

Done.

If number 2 hurts the dk class, then they should be compensated.

Pelican

Other.

Add a cost penalty to it if cast in rapid succession, like what streak has. The problem is not people using wings to completely counter a ranged burst attack, that's what wings is for. The problem is people keeping 100% uptime on wings making it impossible to do any damage the whole fight.

Of course this would make the skill useless if you are getting hit by too many projectiles, making it reflect all projectiles for a shorter duration may be a good idea.

Emmagoldman

Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.

I like that some classes have unique skills and abilities that are hard counters to others.

ZarkingFrued

Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.

CaliMade wrote: »

*** NEW POLL***

Every time i get close to a sorc he streaks away So i cant keep melee pressure on him.

Streak Negates 100% of melee damage AOE CC’s and does decent chip damage
THIS IS A BROKEN MECHANIC


1- Make Streak Cost 100% more each cast

2- Remove CC from streak as most sorcs are are too non resourceful to make use of such a broken tool

3-decrease streak range to only 5 meters

4- Leave as is. Im fine with it being broken.

/s

Love it

ZarkingFrued

Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced.

#nerfstreak it negates melee builds 100%