Alliance switchers/traitors

zyk · October 2018

allstarplayergk wrote: »

rfennell_ESO they actually had faction locked accounts at release but that extended to all of Tamriel. People complained so they unlocked all alliance walls pvp and pve. And participation has declined since(also attributable to the games age, not just that). Once they dropped 1Tamriel eliminating the pve barriers, pvp should have gone back to 1 alliances per campaign for the account.

That is not accurate.

Though some might know me as diehard AD in ESO, my first character at launch was EP after playing AD in the open beta. However, by mistake, I made a Templar instead of an Nightblade. I didn't like Bleakrock(!) and I found I missed the beaches of Auridon, so my second and main character was AD, hours into early access.

Cyrodiil was supposed to be faction-locked on a per-campaign basis -- meaning if you were homed/guested on a campaign with an AD character, characters on other factions could not play there. But there were easy loopholes to bypass that restriction. For example, you could travel to a guildmate or friend to access a campaign that was supposed to be restricted to you. When that loophole was closed, you could still be queued in with a group.

When all restrictions were lifted in 2.6 (1T), the population in the game boomed. Personally, I liked the restrictions because each faction had its own culture, which made the game more interesting, but it's clear to me that the very casual audience of this game mostly hated restrictions and the removal was a very popular change.

allstarplayergk · October 2018

@zyk well, yes, there were loopholes, so I’ll split hairs with you, that despite the intent you could slip into pvp around that wall anyway easily. That same concept of multi alliance que’ing actually got abused a little in different ways that caused problems lol

Sylosi · October 2018

keto3000 wrote: »

...and don't really care to 'win" the actual campaign they are in atm....

People do not care for they same reason they don't care in pretty much every themepark MMORPG with RvR tacked on the side, which is "winning" is basically meaningless.

And it is meaningless because as a competitive gamemode RvR is always a joke. because of imbalanced populations / coverage and the dull gameplay that often goes hand-in-hand with "winning" (PvDoor for example).

WaltherCarraway · October 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Ill say it every single time the topic is brought up: faction 'loyalty' (in a video game lmao), just like nationalism irl, are mental crutches for irrelevant people to have some semblance of meaning and value in their life. Since they have no personal achievements or value to be proud of, they outsource that sense of self-worth to the collective. Wether that be screaming "make america great again" or "DC/EP/AD Rulez"....its the same underlying psycho-social dynamics.

And people without these values are why the world is so messed up.
No sense of identity or self worth.

Same for those kb warriors who think they are 'good'... lol

idk · October 2018

zyk wrote: »

allstarplayergk wrote: »

rfennell_ESO they actually had faction locked accounts at release but that extended to all of Tamriel. People complained so they unlocked all alliance walls pvp and pve. And participation has declined since(also attributable to the games age, not just that). Once they dropped 1Tamriel eliminating the pve barriers, pvp should have gone back to 1 alliances per campaign for the account.

That is not accurate.

Though some might know me as diehard AD in ESO, my first character at launch was EP after playing AD in the open beta. However, by mistake, I made a Templar instead of an Nightblade. I didn't like Bleakrock(!) and I found I missed the beaches of Auridon, so my second and main character was AD, hours into early access.

Cyrodiil was supposed to be faction-locked on a per-campaign basis -- meaning if you were homed/guested on a campaign with an AD character, characters on other factions could not play there. But there were easy loopholes to bypass that restriction. For example, you could travel to a guildmate or friend to access a campaign that was supposed to be restricted to you. When that loophole was closed, you could still be queued in with a group.

When all restrictions were lifted in 2.6 (1T), the population in the game boomed. Personally, I liked the restrictions because each faction had its own culture, which made the game more interesting, but it's clear to me that the very casual audience of this game mostly hated restrictions and the removal was a very popular change.

This is correct. Heck, the population had decreased significantly before 1T. The removal of faction locks, especially in PvE, was akin to a server merger. iirc, we already had cross faction grouping and much of the reason was due to lower populations in the game.

Ormtunge · October 2018

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Ill say it every single time the topic is brought up: faction 'loyalty' (in a video game lmao), just like nationalism irl, are mental crutches for irrelevant people to have some semblance of meaning and value in their life. Since they have no personal achievements or value to be proud of, they outsource that sense of self-worth to the collective. Wether that be screaming "make america great again" or "DC/EP/AD Rulez"....its the same underlying psycho-social dynamics.

And people without these values are why the world is so messed up.
No sense of identity or self worth.

Same for those kb warriors who think they are 'good'... lol

Ofcourse, why care about a game u invest hundreds of hours playing? Its totally ok that some players change sides as it suits them, and only want to troll/cheat or farm AP/points/whatever for them self?. Isnt every comeptition/sport like this? Ofcourse it is not, and nobody will ever tolerate it for a long time, just like in ESO. EVERY SPORT AND COMPETITION that is group based, in the whole world, never tolerated this kind of setup for long. If u can not play for a team, why have pvp at all?:)

Elong · October 2018

It's just a bloody game.

Gilvoth · October 2018

you become friends with people and even tell them your secrets and they find out things about you that can be used against you and also against your alliance, and then they go to the other alliance and use these things against you.
it cuts, and is disturbing and breaks trust, creates anger.
i hate it that this is allowed, and i hope it is fixed in the future and made to stop from happening.

WaltherCarraway · October 2018

Ormtunge wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Ill say it every single time the topic is brought up: faction 'loyalty' (in a video game lmao), just like nationalism irl, are mental crutches for irrelevant people to have some semblance of meaning and value in their life. Since they have no personal achievements or value to be proud of, they outsource that sense of self-worth to the collective. Wether that be screaming "make america great again" or "DC/EP/AD Rulez"....its the same underlying psycho-social dynamics.

And people without these values are why the world is so messed up.
No sense of identity or self worth.

Same for those kb warriors who think they are 'good'... lol

Ofcourse, why care about a game u invest hundreds of hours playing? Its totally ok that some players change sides as it suits them, and only want to troll/cheat or farm AP/points/whatever for them self?. Isnt every comeptition/sport like this? Ofcourse it is not, and nobody will ever tolerate it for a long time, just like in ESO. EVERY SPORT AND COMPETITION that is group based, in the whole world, never tolerated this kind of setup for long. If u can not play for a team, why have pvp at all?:)

Playing with another 3 people automatically makes me a zergling you know.

I could''ve cared less about all these hahha

Morgul667 · October 2018

I dont understand what happens in someones head so they decide to log in on opposite side and do nothing but bother players who are simply enjoying the game... so that their friends can get a few extrapoints... and their faction can despise them

I really don't understand

emma666 · October 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

you become friends with people and even tell them your secrets and they find out things about you that can be used against you and also against your alliance, and then they go to the other alliance and use these things against you.
it cuts, and is disturbing and breaks trust, creates anger.
i hate it that this is allowed, and i hope it is fixed in the future and made to stop from happening.

This happens in any community anywhere. In ESO it happens between guilds and cliques too. Simply human nature, locking alliances would change very little regarding this issue.

WaltherCarraway · October 2018

Morgul667 wrote: »

I dont understand what happens in someones head so they decide to log in on opposite side and do nothing but bother players who are simply enjoying the game... so that their friends can get a few extrapoints... and their faction can despise them

I really don't understand

I play for AP->pot supplies so idk what all these sentiments about.

Beardimus · October 2018

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I dont understand what happens in someones head so they decide to log in on opposite side and do nothing but bother players who are simply enjoying the game... so that their friends can get a few extrapoints... and their faction can despise them

I really don't understand

I play for AP->pot supplies so idk what all these sentiments about.

And to be honest this is the problem.

People have different motivations for being in Cyro, hence always a clash. And those motivations work against each other. Whilst the leaderboard score is linked to a currency it will always happen. Some just want AP and don't care how they get it. Some want leaderboard position and campaign score etc to mean something. Conflicting motives.

Thus even if they can't disable campaign access how about they at least turn off AP gain on the other rooms, might help.

(I still want account lock, but I'll settle for anything that will reduce the cheating)

Beardimus · October 2018

Elong wrote: »

It's just a bloody game.

Unsure how that helps? Games have rules, and fall apart when people cheat.

If footballers started scoring own goals mid match and said "lol its just a game" wouldn't be much fun. Or moving an opponents pieces in chess.

Elong · October 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

It's just a bloody game.

Unsure how that helps? Games have rules, and fall apart when people cheat.

If footballers started scoring own goals mid match and said "lol its just a game" wouldn't be much fun. Or moving an opponents pieces in chess.

But you can't do that in chess. In this game you can, because ZOS says you can.

Look I agree that people who swap to take advantage of situations, scrolls etc, are bads and it shouldn't be allowed. However there are a lot of well meaning people too. I would hate to see them suffer because of a few bad eggs.

Soul_Demon · October 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

It's just a bloody game.

Unsure how that helps? Games have rules, and fall apart when people cheat.

If footballers started scoring own goals mid match and said "lol its just a game" wouldn't be much fun. Or moving an opponents pieces in chess.

That is great analogy to what we have now.....the moment ZOS moved over to 'lower ceiling and raising the floor' the game started down this path and we are now to a tiny fraction of our previous playerbase with no real reason to expect more players to come into game. One faction per server with cooldown and AP cost allowed people flexibility and deterred the poorest play choices in game at the same time. Did not completely remove the bad play, but kept it in check. This game took a severe hit when they no longer encouraged the social dynamic grouping in Cyro that it was designed for and slowly over time we now have fractions of smaller groups of players who not only don't play the game the way it was designed (faction wins) but very soon I would guess players wont even bother to log in as there really isn't much reason to fight for a faction. If the only reason you drop siege or learn how to do it is to generate attention to farm AP off new players- eventually you run out of new players who show up and the experienced simply don't see a strategic advantage to coming to where you are attacking. I don't think we are far off now from 3 and 4 man gankers sitting around all day in stealth looking for things to attack...Not far off at all.

Joy_Division · October 2018

Nevermind.

Miriel · October 2018

Anazasi wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

I've told you what I dislike about the faction swapping possibility. Now I'd really like to hear what's so GREAT about it? What would ruin the whole game, if you could only participate within one alliance for every campaign over 30 days? Is the typical age of players too low for me to understand? Too used to getting what you want for free? I was raised to struggle for everything, I didn't expect any easy ways out - there were none. Your usual choice of alliance doesn't have a single keep today? Tough luck, go reclaim them, come back another day - or do something else and hope for better luck in the next campaign.

I´m 31 years old - definetly not in the younger age bracket of esos playerbase.
I have chars i like to play on 3 factions. There is only 1 campaign that´s interests me. Simple as that.

On top of that i like to have the option to hop on the weak faction and fight the dominant one whichever that might be (ad cough).

Being stuck to one faction would make the game worse not better because it would only aggravate problems with having one dominant alliance - as you´d have to wait until campaign end every time for a possibly (but unlikely) change.

Your view on mmos seems to be quite archaic to be honest. In a modern mmo people should come online and be able to have fun - not be confronted with a situation where their only option is to log out for the next 28 days.

I would agree with you, in all honesty. What you (and others) say makes perfect sense, but it doesn't work. You don't see people from a winning alliance suddenly switch to the complete underdog. They don't. They do the opposite. Just as I have given examples of.

And yeah, Vivec is the name of the game. But what if this change was implemented, wouldn't that bring life back to other campaigns? I don't know, but I guess it would.

Biggest problem however, is that the game doesn't work. Lag, crashes and disconnects are far bigger issues. I have seen a few really prominent EP players say they will probably quit the game, because of all this cheating and alliance switching - but I've seen or heard of far more who won't bother even trying to play anymore, before they fix these problems.

Last night, every death or keep jump resulted in like 5 minutes load screen on Xbox EU server. For a change, I actually RAN like a lunatic from the AD zerg, just to be able of pushing them back later - instead of dying and then respawning at the northern gate with all my friends 5 minutes later hahaha.... It ruins the game, of course.

You are wrong. I can list 10 guilds over the last 3 years that have switch factions for the sole sake of balance. At least on NA PC. The latest was DC guild TKG changed to AD. See the videos and so forth if you don't believe me. You can also check on other guilds such as VE, DIE, Queens Ram, and the list goes on.

yea, iwe been here since alfa, iremember a early time when AD painted most of the maps yellow, then many switched to other factions for several reasons... many of the succefull DC and EP hails back to AD etc...

but the main issue is allow people that want to faction hop do so... and those that want to lock their accounts can also do so, it just means people that dosnt lock their accounts cant use those accounts in certain campaigns.. . then factions hoppers can play with faction hoppers and lockers can play with lockers...

PeggymoeXD · November 2018

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

op you might want to do a search in the general threads some peeps have 8 accounts.

And you have a reading and comprehension problem

I am AD and only AD

your post

"If you're that dedicated to being unfair, it's alright. Honestly. So yes, this would solve the problem, most of it."

if you stick around another year maybe you might get to know some of the people you are slamming on in the forums.

Or enjoy more tea bags your choice.

I see why your own faction disses you.

October 15th you came aboard you haven't been here since 1.6 up. My statements and ethics have withstood the test of haderus/trueflame and god knows how many other campaigns and servers. Many experienced players some from Beta times to present have explained to you why things are the way they are now.

I am going to mark this down as a troll post from a scrub . Even after explanation you still fail to see why things are the way they are.I will not attempt to explain why ZOS made PVP the way it is. Email a Dev maybe they will respond.

To my most favorite pact foes

Joy, Xylena,Meth i will see you around. If peggy moe is about let em know I am still going to trip them down the stairs.

and to my DC nemesis Essa-k I will gank you outside of roe when you least expect it.

I am not about. But I am going to necro this post just to watch the world burn.

idk · November 2018

Elong wrote: »

It's just a bloody game.

This is the correct answer.

Viserys_Varanis · November 2018

If this game would have actual faction locking the campaign scores would be very much different.

And by that I mean Top faction 400k points and the other 2 factions 1k points each

Curtdogg47 · November 2018

I’ve thought about making an AD and DC alt many times, but then I feel dirty so I don’t! : )

But hey It’s supposed be a war and as such there are going to be spies and people swapping over to the winning side and then swapping back if they find out they made a bad choice!
People will steal scrolls and hand them over to the enemy because they are ***.
People close to emp are going to do shady things to get or keep Emp powers!
And some dickheads swap factions just to start ***.

And some people just play multiple factions to get there 50 crystals on multiple toons at the end of the 30 day!

CyrusArya · November 2018

The Alliance War is pointless. The scoring both for the faction and for individual players rewards whoever can zerg the hardest and most often. And even then, the ‘rewards’ are pretty insignificant. So it’s pretty obvious why the better players and guilds don’t care for the alliance war much at all. It’s meaningless beyond roleplaying.

Adjust the scoring so that it reflects skillful gameplay at a micro and macro level, program better algorithms for calculating scoring as it relates to server populations, and throw some sweet loot in for winning and more people might be bothered to care about it.

Either way, the appropriate way to go about promoting campaign loyalty is not throwing up restrictive walls but rather incentivizing loyalty. For example, something like +25% AP after your first month of exclusively PvPing on one faction or something like that.

keto3000 · November 2018

CyrusArya wrote: »

The Alliance War is pointless. The scoring both for the faction and for individual players rewards whoever can zerg the hardest and most often. And even then, the ‘rewards’ are pretty insignificant. So it’s pretty obvious why the better players and guilds don’t care for the alliance war much at all. It’s meaningless beyond roleplaying.

Adjust the scoring so that it reflects skillful gameplay at a micro and macro level, program better algorithms for calculating scoring as it relates to server populations, and throw some sweet loot in for winning and more people might be bothered to care about it.

Either way, the appropriate way to go about promoting campaign loyalty is not throwing up restrictive walls but rather incentivizing loyalty. For example, something like +25% AP after your first month of exclusively PvPing on one faction or something like that.

Shortening campaigns to 21 or 14 days and faction locking them would be the optimum compromise, imo.

idk · November 2018

keto3000 wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

The Alliance War is pointless. The scoring both for the faction and for individual players rewards whoever can zerg the hardest and most often. And even then, the ‘rewards’ are pretty insignificant. So it’s pretty obvious why the better players and guilds don’t care for the alliance war much at all. It’s meaningless beyond roleplaying.

Adjust the scoring so that it reflects skillful gameplay at a micro and macro level, program better algorithms for calculating scoring as it relates to server populations, and throw some sweet loot in for winning and more people might be bothered to care about it.

Either way, the appropriate way to go about promoting campaign loyalty is not throwing up restrictive walls but rather incentivizing loyalty. For example, something like +25% AP after your first month of exclusively PvPing on one faction or something like that.

Shortening campaigns to 21 or 14 days and faction locking them would be the optimum compromise, imo.

Compromise over what?

1. Even the 30 day campaign is shorter then it was. Campaigns used to be 90 days in length.
2. All good to take one of the short duration campaigns and faction lock them. Still costs AP to change in at the start of a new campaign (will cost AP on both characters, the one leaving and the one entering). We will see how many are actually interested in going back to the dark ages.

What you suggest is no compromise. It is just smoke and mirrors to force your way on everyone else even though Zos saw fit to abandon it long ago. My second point is a real compromise

Raudgrani · November 2018

Curtdogg47 wrote: »

And some people just play multiple factions to get there 50 crystals on multiple toons at the end of the 30 day!

They could still. As long as there are 3 campaigns, they can use all their characters for "crystal farming". Never heard of anyone doing it on more than like 3-4 different ones though, all I hear is people complain about "those damn crystals" - because they have too many of them, and can't store more than 200 at their account, and can't bank the geodes.

Curtdogg47 · December 2018

Id like to join the Imperial faction so I can fight everyone!

Gilvoth · December 2018

when you join EP, you get a red tag on your name
when you join AD its yellow.

please make it so that when you join more then 1 alliance you get a black tag next to your name so we can see.

sharquez · December 2018

Preventing people from playing the game they paid for, on the faction they want to, with the friends they have made? No. That's silly. This is not the NFL pro league, we are competing for imaginary points to earn virtual weapons with no practical value for fun. FUN. If i feel like playing my EP Magsorc one day and my DC Stamplar the next i see no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to. Restricting the freedom to play of the many to prevent "exploitation" by the few results in a lower quality of game for everyone. It's also a point of measuring the expectations of what a moderation team can be expected to do. they can't be every where. If players are doing something that you believe, and can prove violates the terms of use, it's up to you to report them. That said playing the game to ensure your faction wins I don't think explicitly violates that. While it's shady, as the saying goes: All's fair in love and war.

Minno · December 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

when you join EP, you get a red tag on your name
when you join AD its yellow.

please make it so that when you join more then 1 alliance you get a black tag next to your name so we can see.

And that will change what exactly? Make it easier for terrible players to focus their rage against others that have killed them in a video game they currently are terrible at?

The game will get ALOT better if the players playing it start focusing their rage on more constructive outlets. Especially if one of those outlets consists of trying to be a better player.

But what do I know, I just play here.