The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
how are shields now?
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Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Just switch to heavy. Light armor is not viable in pvp anymore.
Shields don't benefit from increased healing received. I see no reason why magicka should switch to heavy when it's so easy to just use Pariah jewelry +2 armor pieces if you want that extra mitigation. Also concentration just got a nice buff since it'll buff your damage against shields now.
I mean with all you have to do to make shields viable you might as well switch to heavy
I'm describing how you could make them more potent while staying in light armor. Shields will be strong regardless, but now their potency will be dependant on how much you want to invest into your survivability; which is how it should be.Edited by Strider__Roshin on October 16, 2018 6:18PM1 -
helios777✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.
High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.
Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.
Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.
My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.
So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?
The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.
1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.
Well-fitted/impen is used as no offensive trait is worth the gain in PvP, and even then most players use Infused on big pieces, especially if Prismatic enchants are used.
It's not 1000 to 100. For your tooltips Every 1 spell damage is equal to 10.5 magicka meaning you will have to stack more max magicka to make you tooltips equal to a high spell damage build. People don't stack max magicka because of damage, you stack max magicka to make a balanced build because it can be used both offensively and defensively at the same time. Max magicka however is the worse way to build for offensive, both spell damage and spell pen would give you alot more damage than a Max magicka build
@thankyourat you're wrong sorry. Tamerlin runs a 60k magicka build atm and can 1 or 2 shot people.Grand Warlord HAXERUS. One of the last OG Mag DKs.
Mag DK through Thick and Thin.
Retired from Cyrodiil until they finally decide to fix the performance, which is probably never.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.
High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.
Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.
Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.
My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.
So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?
The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.
1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.
Well-fitted/impen is used as no offensive trait is worth the gain in PvP, and even then most players use Infused on big pieces, especially if Prismatic enchants are used.
It's not 1000 to 100. For your tooltips Every 1 spell damage is equal to 10.5 magicka meaning you will have to stack more max magicka to make you tooltips equal to a high spell damage build. People don't stack max magicka because of damage, you stack max magicka to make a balanced build because it can be used both offensively and defensively at the same time. Max magicka however is the worse way to build for offensive, both spell damage and spell pen would give you alot more damage than a Max magicka build
@thankyourat you're wrong sorry. Tamerlin runs a 60k magicka build atm and can 1 or 2 shot people.
He's not wrong. He's exactly right.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.2 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.
High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.
Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.
Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.
My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.
So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?
The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.
1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.
Well-fitted/impen is used as no offensive trait is worth the gain in PvP, and even then most players use Infused on big pieces, especially if Prismatic enchants are used.
It's not 1000 to 100. For your tooltips Every 1 spell damage is equal to 10.5 magicka meaning you will have to stack more max magicka to make you tooltips equal to a high spell damage build. People don't stack max magicka because of damage, you stack max magicka to make a balanced build because it can be used both offensively and defensively at the same time. Max magicka however is the worse way to build for offensive, both spell damage and spell pen would give you alot more damage than a Max magicka build
@thankyourat you're wrong sorry. Tamerlin runs a 60k magicka build atm and can 1 or 2 shot people.
There are more stats to the game and more different qualities/skill levels of players than a 60k mag build that can 1-2 some folks.
I would respond with a petty 'sorry, you're wrong' but you haven't actually said anything of worth that could even come close to being considered at that level.Edited by Tonturri on October 16, 2018 7:02PM0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Everything.
Then we have to adjust even more dmg nerfs like fury nerf people ask for because it "steals" their BG kills.
Even if magsorc end up an AP bag inside cyrodiil, they will find for new things to whine about them and request more nerfs. The ESO way since 2014.
They've always got more stuff for people to complain about and devs to take away. Don't forget, we still have that 6% chance to proc Implosion on enemies under 15% health if we hit them with shock damage, too.
Well thats already been nerfed but that doesn't mean that there is no room for MOAR nerfs.0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.7 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.
If you have 60k magica inside cyrodiil you will die, on the other hand a sustain build with 46k mag wont.
If you cant burst 2 shields that have 0 resistance you should L2P before come in forum and whine about them, but hey 2 shields are bad and have to change 4-5 HoTs + purges+ rolls + reflects + 1shot heals + blocks is balanced right? Get outta here, you are a hard non L2P you will 100% get rekt after the shield change, not because they will be OP just because you dont know how to counter them.7 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.
If you have 60k magica inside cyrodiil you will die, on the other hand a sustain build with 46k mag wont.
If you cant burst 2 shields that have 0 resistance you should L2P before come in forum and whine about them, but hey 2 shields are bad and have to change 4-5 HoTs + purges+ rolls + reflects + 1shot heals + blocks is balanced right? Get outta here, you are a hard non L2P you will 100% get rekt after the shield change, not because they will be OP just because you dont know how to counter them.
Don't burst a blood vessel, but shield stacking is a problem, yes. That information was just a comparison of how effective max magicka is for more than just shields. This change gets people off of a crutch, and has them focus on game mechanics instead of ignoring them. You must be a sorc, bc this change had more of an effect on stacking than anything else. Youll be ok, just wait for someone else to figure out the best value, bc now they're all important.4 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Just switch to heavy. Light armor is not viable in pvp anymore.
Shields don't benefit from increased healing received. I see no reason why magicka should switch to heavy when it's so easy to just use Pariah jewelry +2 armor pieces if you want that extra mitigation. Also concentration just got a nice buff since it'll buff your damage against shields now.
I mean with all you have to do to make shields viable you might as well switch to heavy
I'm describing how you could make them more potent while staying in light armor. Shields will be strong regardless, but now their potency will be dependant on how much you want to invest into your survivability; which is how it should be.
I think dodging should only mitigate projectile damage equal to 40% of your health. That way stam builds would finally have to invest into survivability.
Welcome to a world through the looking glass!17 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Shields and stacking them are only a crutch in that they allow people who don't know how to play justify their losses. "Oh, that sorc is shielding and shield stacking, shields op."
With all the pts changes, they'll no longer have any excuse to explain away why they're just plain awful. Poor things.
Or maybe they'll go after surge next..surge op!3 -
helios777✭✭✭✭Top tier players will always adapt. Don't blame sorcs for shield stacking when it was ZoS who pigeon holed them into it. I know several sorcs who will still be melting faces with tons of survivability next patch.Grand Warlord HAXERUS. One of the last OG Mag DKs.
Mag DK through Thick and Thin.
Retired from Cyrodiil until they finally decide to fix the performance, which is probably never.1 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think dodging should only mitigate projectile damage equal to 40% of your health. That way stam builds would finally have to invest into survivability.
Indeed, where is spamming Dodges different from spamming Shields?
Dodges and Shields are the things the designers DESIGNED FOR MITIGATION.
If Shields will be capped, Dodges have to be capped as well or there will be massive unbalance.
Edited by BalticBlues on October 17, 2018 6:28AM12 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »I think dodging should only mitigate projectile damage equal to 40% of your health. That way stam builds would finally have to invest into survivability.
Indeed, where is spamming Dodges different from spamming Shields?
Dodges and Shields are the things the designers DESIGNED FOR MITIGATION.
If Shields will be capped, Dodges have to be capped as well or there will be massive unbalance.
Comfortably ignoring that dodgeroll has a stacking cost increase.
Some people are getting hysteric here.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 505 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Not ignoring at all, because Streaks also has a stacking cost increase, making this point even.Comfortably ignoring that dodgeroll has a stacking cost increase.
Sorry, by getting personal you are just devaluating your own points.Some people are getting hysteric here.
That MagSorcs need TWO SPELLS for evasion (Streak) and mitigation (Shield) where Stamplayers just can dodge and need ZERO SPELLS for evasion and mitigation already is a huge design disadvantage. Now that the 3rd bar will be removed for Sorcs, especially pet Sorcs run out of slots, making Streak and Shields an even more costly decision. Therefore, some players will even be forced to play heavy and without shields, other players will be forced to play without pets.
Sorry, but this patch is pure doom for Sorcs, pressing players into unwanted gameplay.
"Play as you want?" Not anymore, this class is now "play as the designers want".
TOO MANY. SLEDGEHAMMER. NERFS.
... all at the same time, all in the same patch.
Edited by BalticBlues on October 17, 2018 8:54AM11 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.
If you have 60k magica inside cyrodiil you will die, on the other hand a sustain build with 46k mag wont.
If you cant burst 2 shields that have 0 resistance you should L2P before come in forum and whine about them, but hey 2 shields are bad and have to change 4-5 HoTs + purges+ rolls + reflects + 1shot heals + blocks is balanced right? Get outta here, you are a hard non L2P you will 100% get rekt after the shield change, not because they will be OP just because you dont know how to counter them.
Don't burst a blood vessel, but shield stacking is a problem, yes. That information was just a comparison of how effective max magicka is for more than just shields. This change gets people off of a crutch, and has them focus on game mechanics instead of ignoring them. You must be a sorc, bc this change had more of an effect on stacking than anything else. Youll be ok, just wait for someone else to figure out the best value, bc now they're all important.
How exactly did it solve shieldstacking. You can still stack them. And what mechanics do u ignore exactly?1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »I think dodging should only mitigate projectile damage equal to 40% of your health. That way stam builds would finally have to invest into survivability.
Indeed, where is spamming Dodges different from spamming Shields?
Dodges and Shields are the things the designers DESIGNED FOR MITIGATION.
If Shields will be capped, Dodges have to be capped as well or there will be massive unbalance.
Comfortably ignoring that dodgeroll has a stacking cost increase.
Some people are getting hysteric here.
Well, not everybody wanders around with a smallscale or a zerg you know..
Therefore that pet-warden buff is probably the most useful thing anybody can have murkDays, solo playing is even worst now and generally speaking considering that all classes act hysteric since 2014 when a massive nerf is inc sorcs can and have the right to act like it now i guess ^^
Just imagine PTS notes having a massive nb nerf in stam/mag specs, MASS HYSTERIA is their ability
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
Not ignoring at all, because Streaks also has a stacking cost increase, making this point even.Comfortably ignoring that dodgeroll has a stacking cost increase.
Sorry, by getting personal you are just devaluating your own points.Some people are getting hysteric here.
That MagSorcs need TWO SPELLS for evasion (Streak) and mitigation (Shield) where Stamplayers just can dodge and need ZERO SPELLS for evasion and mitigation already is a huge design disadvantage. Now that the 3rd bar will be removed for Sorcs, especially pet Sorcs run out of slots, making Streak and Shields an even more costly decision. Therefore, some players will even be forced to play heavy and without shields, other players will be forced to play without pets.
Sorry, but this patch is pure doom for Sorcs, pressing players into unwanted gameplay.
"Play as you want?" Not anymore, this class is now "play as the designers want".
TOO MANY. SLEDGEHAMMER. NERFS.
... all at the same time, all in the same patch.
Let´s just agree to disagree.
For pvp my 4 sorcs will be fine
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Just switch to heavy. Light armor is not viable in pvp anymore.
Shields don't benefit from increased healing received. I see no reason why magicka should switch to heavy when it's so easy to just use Pariah jewelry +2 armor pieces if you want that extra mitigation. Also concentration just got a nice buff since it'll buff your damage against shields now.
I mean with all you have to do to make shields viable you might as well switch to heavy
I'm describing how you could make them more potent while staying in light armor. Shields will be strong regardless, but now their potency will be dependant on how much you want to invest into your survivability; which is how it should be.
I think dodging should only mitigate projectile damage equal to 40% of your health. That way stam builds would finally have to invest into survivability.
Welcome to a world through the looking glass!
Make it so one dodge allows me to ignore all damage up to 40% of my max health for 6 seconds per dodge roll and you have a deal!0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.
If you have 60k magica inside cyrodiil you will die, on the other hand a sustain build with 46k mag wont.
If you cant burst 2 shields that have 0 resistance you should L2P before come in forum and whine about them, but hey 2 shields are bad and have to change 4-5 HoTs + purges+ rolls + reflects + 1shot heals + blocks is balanced right? Get outta here, you are a hard non L2P you will 100% get rekt after the shield change, not because they will be OP just because you dont know how to counter them.
Don't burst a blood vessel, but shield stacking is a problem, yes. That information was just a comparison of how effective max magicka is for more than just shields. This change gets people off of a crutch, and has them focus on game mechanics instead of ignoring them. You must be a sorc, bc this change had more of an effect on stacking than anything else. Youll be ok, just wait for someone else to figure out the best value, bc now they're all important.
Shield stacking was only ever a problem if you're a bad player tbh.
Literally never struggled vs a shield stacking build, yeah if they wen't full defensive it'll take a while 1v1 but thats true for any build.
In open world shields suck and are far worse than medium dodge builds or tanky heavy ones.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...4 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.
If you have 60k magica inside cyrodiil you will die, on the other hand a sustain build with 46k mag wont.
If you cant burst 2 shields that have 0 resistance you should L2P before come in forum and whine about them, but hey 2 shields are bad and have to change 4-5 HoTs + purges+ rolls + reflects + 1shot heals + blocks is balanced right? Get outta here, you are a hard non L2P you will 100% get rekt after the shield change, not because they will be OP just because you dont know how to counter them.
Don't burst a blood vessel, but shield stacking is a problem, yes. That information was just a comparison of how effective max magicka is for more than just shields. This change gets people off of a crutch, and has them focus on game mechanics instead of ignoring them. You must be a sorc, bc this change had more of an effect on stacking than anything else. Youll be ok, just wait for someone else to figure out the best value, bc now they're all important.
Shield stacking was only ever a problem if you're a bad player tbh.
Literally never struggled vs a shield stacking build, yeah if they wen't full defensive it'll take a while 1v1 but thats true for any build.
In open world shields suck and are far worse than medium dodge builds or tanky heavy ones.
In a game littered with undodgeable attacks, to claim that dodge rolling is superior to shields is a lie. All of my abilities with the exception of my CC is dodgeable, and medium armor is free AP to me.
Damage shields needed to get balanced. It's about time magicka needed to build for survivability like the rest of us.3 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.
If you have 60k magica inside cyrodiil you will die, on the other hand a sustain build with 46k mag wont.
If you cant burst 2 shields that have 0 resistance you should L2P before come in forum and whine about them, but hey 2 shields are bad and have to change 4-5 HoTs + purges+ rolls + reflects + 1shot heals + blocks is balanced right? Get outta here, you are a hard non L2P you will 100% get rekt after the shield change, not because they will be OP just because you dont know how to counter them.
Don't burst a blood vessel, but shield stacking is a problem, yes. That information was just a comparison of how effective max magicka is for more than just shields. This change gets people off of a crutch, and has them focus on game mechanics instead of ignoring them. You must be a sorc, bc this change had more of an effect on stacking than anything else. Youll be ok, just wait for someone else to figure out the best value, bc now they're all important.
Shield stacking was only ever a problem if you're a bad player tbh.
Literally never struggled vs a shield stacking build, yeah if they wen't full defensive it'll take a while 1v1 but thats true for any build.
In open world shields suck and are far worse than medium dodge builds or tanky heavy ones.
In a game littered with undodgeable attacks, to claim that dodge rolling is superior to shields is a lie. All of my abilities with the exception of my CC is dodgeable, and medium armor is free AP to me.
Damage shields needed to get balanced. It's about time magicka needed to build for survivability like the rest of us.
Poor you...endless rolls...Vigor...Rally...Rally burst heal...Heavy armor?...Block?...shuffle?... Not many defensives, but 2 shields are op :P1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Oh andleepalmer95 wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.
If you have 60k magica inside cyrodiil you will die, on the other hand a sustain build with 46k mag wont.
If you cant burst 2 shields that have 0 resistance you should L2P before come in forum and whine about them, but hey 2 shields are bad and have to change 4-5 HoTs + purges+ rolls + reflects + 1shot heals + blocks is balanced right? Get outta here, you are a hard non L2P you will 100% get rekt after the shield change, not because they will be OP just because you dont know how to counter them.
Don't burst a blood vessel, but shield stacking is a problem, yes. That information was just a comparison of how effective max magicka is for more than just shields. This change gets people off of a crutch, and has them focus on game mechanics instead of ignoring them. You must be a sorc, bc this change had more of an effect on stacking than anything else. Youll be ok, just wait for someone else to figure out the best value, bc now they're all important.
Shield stacking was only ever a problem if you're a bad player tbh.
^ arguing via ad hominems is a great way to prove that your stance has no substance.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.
If you have 60k magica inside cyrodiil you will die, on the other hand a sustain build with 46k mag wont.
If you cant burst 2 shields that have 0 resistance you should L2P before come in forum and whine about them, but hey 2 shields are bad and have to change 4-5 HoTs + purges+ rolls + reflects + 1shot heals + blocks is balanced right? Get outta here, you are a hard non L2P you will 100% get rekt after the shield change, not because they will be OP just because you dont know how to counter them.
Don't burst a blood vessel, but shield stacking is a problem, yes. That information was just a comparison of how effective max magicka is for more than just shields. This change gets people off of a crutch, and has them focus on game mechanics instead of ignoring them. You must be a sorc, bc this change had more of an effect on stacking than anything else. Youll be ok, just wait for someone else to figure out the best value, bc now they're all important.
Shield stacking was only ever a problem if you're a bad player tbh.
Literally never struggled vs a shield stacking build, yeah if they wen't full defensive it'll take a while 1v1 but thats true for any build.
In open world shields suck and are far worse than medium dodge builds or tanky heavy ones.
In a game littered with undodgeable attacks, to claim that dodge rolling is superior to shields is a lie. All of my abilities with the exception of my CC is dodgeable, and medium armor is free AP to me.
Damage shields needed to get balanced. It's about time magicka needed to build for survivability like the rest of us.
We can start discussing that when magicka characters can stack 7k+ spell damage while maintaining defense.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.7 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.
If you have 60k magica inside cyrodiil you will die, on the other hand a sustain build with 46k mag wont.
If you cant burst 2 shields that have 0 resistance you should L2P before come in forum and whine about them, but hey 2 shields are bad and have to change 4-5 HoTs + purges+ rolls + reflects + 1shot heals + blocks is balanced right? Get outta here, you are a hard non L2P you will 100% get rekt after the shield change, not because they will be OP just because you dont know how to counter them.
Don't burst a blood vessel, but shield stacking is a problem, yes. That information was just a comparison of how effective max magicka is for more than just shields. This change gets people off of a crutch, and has them focus on game mechanics instead of ignoring them. You must be a sorc, bc this change had more of an effect on stacking than anything else. Youll be ok, just wait for someone else to figure out the best value, bc now they're all important.
Shield stacking was only ever a problem if you're a bad player tbh.
Literally never struggled vs a shield stacking build, yeah if they wen't full defensive it'll take a while 1v1 but thats true for any build.
In open world shields suck and are far worse than medium dodge builds or tanky heavy ones.
In a game littered with undodgeable attacks, to claim that dodge rolling is superior to shields is a lie. All of my abilities with the exception of my CC is dodgeable, and medium armor is free AP to me.
Damage shields needed to get balanced. It's about time magicka needed to build for survivability like the rest of us.
We can start discussing that when magicka characters can stack 7k+ spell damage while maintaining defense.
If you're referring to Fury + Seventh builds no one thinks those are balanced, and their existence is a stain on the balance in PvP.3 -
Zelos✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.
It was a needed one for eternally whining forum plebs that cant L2P and counter shields, as most classes besides magplars can easily counter them.
Shields since 2014 had 10 nerfs in total, 12 with the murk upcoming.
I bet everything i have you all will keep whining about shields instead of L2P.
I agree, people dont know how to counter shields becuase they are plebs. I know how becuase I use shield breaker, which has counterplay too... stop applying shields and you will stop taking the oblivion damage, if you cant survive after that not my problem:)Edited by Zelos on October 17, 2018 10:25AMAeonhack - AD Stamina Nightblade - 5 Star General
CP1200
Creator and user of "Questionable" addons and game mechanics.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Just switch to heavy. Light armor is not viable in pvp anymore.
Shields don't benefit from increased healing received. I see no reason why magicka should switch to heavy when it's so easy to just use Pariah jewelry +2 armor pieces if you want that extra mitigation. Also concentration just got a nice buff since it'll buff your damage against shields now.
I mean with all you have to do to make shields viable you might as well switch to heavy
I'm describing how you could make them more potent while staying in light armor. Shields will be strong regardless, but now their potency will be dependant on how much you want to invest into your survivability; which is how it should be.
I think dodging should only mitigate projectile damage equal to 40% of your health. That way stam builds would finally have to invest into survivability.
Welcome to a world through the looking glass!
Make it so one dodge allows me to ignore all damage up to 40% of my max health for 6 seconds per dodge roll and you have a deal!
Nahnahnah. When you mitigate that damage, so you get the "DODGE" message, the value gets decreased for the dodged amount, like shields. Sure, if you don't dodge anything, keep the "dodge buff" for six seconds.
However, of course, you can't cancel into dodge then, it'll be on the GCD system. And only take effect after the animation finished. It'll also require you to slot the defensive "Dodge" skill on your bar, of course.
Anyway, you're derailing. Point is, dodge requires no investment in stats, sustain obviously aside. Not even you can deny that. So why do sorcs have to sacrifice for survivability, but dodge players don't? Seeing the hypocrisy here?6 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.
If you have 60k magica inside cyrodiil you will die, on the other hand a sustain build with 46k mag wont.
If you cant burst 2 shields that have 0 resistance you should L2P before come in forum and whine about them, but hey 2 shields are bad and have to change 4-5 HoTs + purges+ rolls + reflects + 1shot heals + blocks is balanced right? Get outta here, you are a hard non L2P you will 100% get rekt after the shield change, not because they will be OP just because you dont know how to counter them.
Don't burst a blood vessel, but shield stacking is a problem, yes. That information was just a comparison of how effective max magicka is for more than just shields. This change gets people off of a crutch, and has them focus on game mechanics instead of ignoring them. You must be a sorc, bc this change had more of an effect on stacking than anything else. Youll be ok, just wait for someone else to figure out the best value, bc now they're all important.
Shield stacking was only ever a problem if you're a bad player tbh.
Literally never struggled vs a shield stacking build, yeah if they wen't full defensive it'll take a while 1v1 but thats true for any build.
In open world shields suck and are far worse than medium dodge builds or tanky heavy ones.
In a game littered with undodgeable attacks, to claim that dodge rolling is superior to shields is a lie. All of my abilities with the exception of my CC is dodgeable, and medium armor is free AP to me.
Damage shields needed to get balanced. It's about time magicka needed to build for survivability like the rest of us.
We can start discussing that when magicka characters can stack 7k+ spell damage while maintaining defense.
If you're referring to Fury + Seventh builds no one thinks those are balanced, and their existence is a stain on the balance in PvP.
Start a nerf thread and see how far you get until the pitchforks come out. Among other things you’re going to hear that „the Brawler is a play style a lot of people like“, that „Seventh has already been nerfed“, and that „Heavy Armour needs damage too“ along with „Buff medium, don’t nerf HA“.
Unlike shields - which are an easy scapegoat - there isn’t a consensus on changes because everyone is so entrenched in their HA Bleed heaven.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.6 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Spamming a spell costing 4k magicka with 60k magicka and 1.5k regen allows for 18 casts.
At 45k magicka, the same spell spammed while having 2k regen meets 15 seconds. Bigger pool equals easy sustain. The reason stam builds any away from it is they don't have....... shields...
Stacking magicka to ridiculous numbers is the best way to survive (shields and healing), sustain, AND damage while ignoring things like critical hits. It had to change.
If you have 60k magica inside cyrodiil you will die, on the other hand a sustain build with 46k mag wont.
If you cant burst 2 shields that have 0 resistance you should L2P before come in forum and whine about them, but hey 2 shields are bad and have to change 4-5 HoTs + purges+ rolls + reflects + 1shot heals + blocks is balanced right? Get outta here, you are a hard non L2P you will 100% get rekt after the shield change, not because they will be OP just because you dont know how to counter them.
Don't burst a blood vessel, but shield stacking is a problem, yes. That information was just a comparison of how effective max magicka is for more than just shields. This change gets people off of a crutch, and has them focus on game mechanics instead of ignoring them. You must be a sorc, bc this change had more of an effect on stacking than anything else. Youll be ok, just wait for someone else to figure out the best value, bc now they're all important.
Shield stacking was only ever a problem if you're a bad player tbh.
Literally never struggled vs a shield stacking build, yeah if they wen't full defensive it'll take a while 1v1 but thats true for any build.
In open world shields suck and are far worse than medium dodge builds or tanky heavy ones.
In a game littered with undodgeable attacks, to claim that dodge rolling is superior to shields is a lie. All of my abilities with the exception of my CC is dodgeable, and medium armor is free AP to me.
Damage shields needed to get balanced. It's about time magicka needed to build for survivability like the rest of us.
We can start discussing that when magicka characters can stack 7k+ spell damage while maintaining defense.
If you're referring to Fury + Seventh builds no one thinks those are balanced, and their existence is a stain on the balance in PvP.
Start a nerf thread and see how far you get until the pitchforks come out. Among other things you’re going to hear that „the Brawler is a play style a lot of people like“, that „Seventh has already been nerfed“, and that „Heavy Armour needs damage too“ along with „Buff medium, don’t nerf HA“.
Unlike shields - which are an easy scapegoat - there isn’t a consensus on changes because everyone is so entrenched in their HA Bleed heaven.
Trust me, that topic has been beaten to death. I don't like starting a thread unless I have something new to add. We've seen in the dev meeting notes that ZOS has been informed of these issues so making a thread about the imbalances of having 7k weapon damage with 28k resistances wouldn't be informing, it would just be whining.
Here's hoping ZOS does something about it sooner rather than later.0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Make it so one dodge allows me to ignore all damage up to 40% of my max health for 6 seconds per dodge roll and you have a deal!
Sure, as long as it no longer evades any damage and you will have to slot it onto your bars. Oh and ofc you should no longer be able to animation cancel with it and the dodge roll cost reduction on gear and CPs has to be remove as well.
You will be in for a bad surprise. There is a reason you see magicka builds dodge rolling but not stamina builds using shields (even pre 5-piece-LA requirement).In a game littered with undodgeable attacks, to claim that dodge rolling is superior to shields is a lie. All of my abilities with the exception of my CC is dodgeable, and medium armor is free AP to me.
Oh boy, here we go again.
So first you claim there are so many undodgeable attacks, implying you cannot dodge most of the damage, that clearly dodge role is inferior to damage shields. In the next sentence you admit that all of your abilities with the exception of CC is dodgeable. So which is it?Damage shields needed to get balanced. It's about time magicka needed to build for survivability like the rest of us.
You victimizing yourself/stamblades is truely getting ridiculous. You don't even have to slot your main defense. Your main defense has no upper limit. Your main defense does not have to be adjusted to increased damage in CP enviroment. Your main defense can have its cost reduced in the CP system. our main defense can have its cost reduced through armor traits. Your main defense can be used to animation cancel and us such easily be woven in between major attacks / skills. Your main defense negates almost all CCs. Your main defense allows you to stack heavily into weapon damage increasing your damage far beyond anything magicka builds can hope for.
Neither shields nor heals, the magicka main defenses, have these properties!
It's really startling how much stamina builds in general and stamblades (you) in particular had to sacrifice to gain survivability. Especially that roughly 100% to 200% weapon damage compared to spell damage of magicka builds is horrific. That's literally the greatest sacrifice in recorded history. Forget Jesus, that scrub only had himself crucified. You stamblades are the true martyrs!
PS: we are still waiting for that mathematical analysis of shield performance and it's underlying factors that you promised us 3 or 4 months ago.Edited by Galarthor on October 17, 2018 10:49AM10 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We've seen in the dev meeting notes that ZOS has been informed of these issues so making a thread about the imbalances of having 7k weapon damage with 28k resistances wouldn't be informing, it would just be whining.
That category would be very fitting for the complaints about magicka defenses too then if we go by your definition.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2