how are shields now?

susmitds

lucky_dutch wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Just switch to heavy. Light armor is not viable in pvp anymore.

I think it is. Sustain for mag is harsh in heavy

To be fair - what good is sustain when you die inside a single cc?

To answer OP: I think light will still be ok with some builds but my Magblade will have to be vampire now and focus on kiting with mist and re-stealthing rather than ‘duelling’ in order to stay alive.

Mist form is basically RIP against bleed builds, who stack DoT after DoT, and CC+ Ulti dump as soon as mist drops for the first time.

Err.... no.

The whole point of the mist -> cloak combo is it’s an almost uncounterable escape mechanism at the expense of being more vulnerable to certain skills in combat.

Mist gives you the distance on your target so they can’t AoE you out of stealth. If you’ve also dropped a shade first, even if they’re spamming gap closers on you whilst you’re in mist, when you come out you retreat to your shade and by the time they figure out what you did, you’re long gone!

Besides, as a Magblade, if you’ve let anyone stack more than one bleed on you, you’re doing it wrong buddy.

L2P issues on your side me thinks 🤷‍♂️

I play StamNB nowadays mostly. I have no issues following any class while stacking 3+ hard dots with Master Axe+Bow heavy poisonbleedblade. Steel Tornado does the rest.

usmguy1234

Biro123 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Just switch to heavy. Light armor is not viable in pvp anymore.

Shields don't benefit from increased healing received. I see no reason why magicka should switch to heavy when it's so easy to just use Pariah jewelry +2 armor pieces if you want that extra mitigation. Also concentration just got a nice buff since it'll buff your damage against shields now.

Good luck with the doo doo damage that build has.

Thing is, though, going heavy I think it would be worse because you'd have to give up pretty much all damage in your build to be able to sustain.

The only mag specs that are semi viable in heavy are the ones that have access to dots.

lucky_dutch

susmitds wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Just switch to heavy. Light armor is not viable in pvp anymore.

I think it is. Sustain for mag is harsh in heavy

To be fair - what good is sustain when you die inside a single cc?

To answer OP: I think light will still be ok with some builds but my Magblade will have to be vampire now and focus on kiting with mist and re-stealthing rather than ‘duelling’ in order to stay alive.

Mist form is basically RIP against bleed builds, who stack DoT after DoT, and CC+ Ulti dump as soon as mist drops for the first time.

Err.... no.

The whole point of the mist -> cloak combo is it’s an almost uncounterable escape mechanism at the expense of being more vulnerable to certain skills in combat.

Mist gives you the distance on your target so they can’t AoE you out of stealth. If you’ve also dropped a shade first, even if they’re spamming gap closers on you whilst you’re in mist, when you come out you retreat to your shade and by the time they figure out what you did, you’re long gone!

Besides, as a Magblade, if you’ve let anyone stack more than one bleed on you, you’re doing it wrong buddy.

L2P issues on your side me thinks 🤷‍♂️

I play StamNB nowadays mostly. I have no issues following any class while stacking 3+ hard dots with Master Axe+Bow heavy poisonbleedblade. Steel Tornado does the rest.

If you can’t read, I can’t help you.

susmitds

Anken5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.

High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.

Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.

Biro123

susmitds wrote: »

Anken5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.

High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.

Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.

Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.

My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.

So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?

The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.

susmitds

Biro123 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Anken5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.

High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.

Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.

Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.

My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.

So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?

The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.

1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.
Well-fitted/impen is used as no offensive trait is worth the gain in PvP, and even then most players use Infused on big pieces, especially if Prismatic enchants are used.

Tonturri

susmitds wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Anken5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.

High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.

Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.

Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.

My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.

So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?

The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.

1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.

Recall that Major Sorcery exists in potion form. So...no. It's easier to stack spell damage - meme builds aside, so yes, I'm aware you CAN slot inner light + bound armor on an altmer maxsorc and whatever, but that doesn't really happen anymore. MUCH easier - where's my backbarred weapon enchant that gives 4500 max mag? Or a full max mag set that doesn't require a pet? Etc etc.

The closest you'll come to the ease with which you can get 20% increased spell damage is an altmer magicka nightblade using two different armor types. Which, coincidentally, if it's a light armor setup depends on shields the least due to cloak.

For the love of all that is holy, stop with the 'for free' BS.

Biro123

And not to mention that a single set bonus gives just over 1096 mag, but for spell-damage gives 129. 129 spell-damage adds around 20% more to damage than 1096 magicka, does, by the 100 to 1000 ratio before modifiers (It's not exactly that, I forget the exact number).
Also worth mentioning that magsorc has passives that boost spell-damage, not magicka.

Brutusmax1mus

@Biro123 no offense, but you just can't argue that stacking max mag is difficult. Doing so gives you near identical tooltips while having a much larger impact on sustain AND survivability through much larger mag pool and shield usage.

The point is Max mag impacts damage, sustain, and survivability (though both healing and shields). Spell damage only impacts damage and survivability through healing, albeit slightly more damage but only impacts survivability through healing. Max mag does more, which is why stacking it is so effective.

Biro123

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

@Biro123 no offense, but you just can't argue that stacking max mag is difficult. Doing so gives you near identical tooltips while having a much larger impact on sustain AND survivability through much larger mag pool and shield usage.

The point is Max mag impacts damage, sustain, and survivability (though both healing and shields). Spell damage only impacts damage and survivability through healing, albeit slightly more damage but only impacts survivability through healing. Max mag does more, which is why stacking it is so effective.

It does, but the point is that it does give less damage, it doesn't really help with sustain past a point, because no matter how big a mag pool, you will run dry without recovery.
So mag builds being able to stack mag at the expense of health and resists (because that's all were talking about, really, isn't it), comes at a cost and that cost is the amount of sustain needed

I mean, all said and done, all my stam toons can mix a damage set with shacklebreaker (in heavy, too for free defence).
My mag toons need to run lich with it, and need light too, for the sustain.

thankyourat

susmitds wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Anken5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.

High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.

Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.

Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.

My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.

So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?

The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.

1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.
Well-fitted/impen is used as no offensive trait is worth the gain in PvP, and even then most players use Infused on big pieces, especially if Prismatic enchants are used.

It's not 1000 to 100. For your tooltips Every 1 spell damage is equal to 10.5 magicka meaning you will have to stack more max magicka to make you tooltips equal to a high spell damage build. People don't stack max magicka because of damage, you stack max magicka to make a balanced build because it can be used both offensively and defensively at the same time. Max magicka however is the worse way to build for offensive, both spell damage and spell pen would give you alot more damage than a Max magicka build

Lord-Otto

Tonturri wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Anken5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.

High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.

Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.

Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.

My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.

So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?

The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.

1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.

Recall that Major Sorcery exists in potion form. So...no. It's easier to stack spell damage - meme builds aside, so yes, I'm aware you CAN slot inner light + bound armor on an altmer maxsorc and whatever, but that doesn't really happen anymore. MUCH easier - where's my backbarred weapon enchant that gives 4500 max mag? Or a full max mag set that doesn't require a pet? Etc etc.

The closest you'll come to the ease with which you can get 20% increased spell damage is an altmer magicka nightblade using two different armor types. Which, coincidentally, if it's a light armor setup depends on shields the least due to cloak.

For the love of all that is holy, stop with the 'for free' BS.

There's also Continuous Attack, big point. Minor Sorcery from a friendly Templar will also be noticeable with Nerfmire.
Jewelry is also biased towards spellpower. You get 870 magicka for the trait, that's not even a set bonus. But a whopping 178 spellpower for the enchant, that's MORE than a set bonus. And you can even infuse it!

PhoenixGrey

Daus wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Just switch to heavy. Light armor is not viable in pvp anymore.

Shields don't benefit from increased healing received. I see no reason why magicka should switch to heavy when it's so easy to just use Pariah jewelry +2 armor pieces if you want that extra mitigation. Also concentration just got a nice buff since it'll buff your damage against shields now.

Why would you ever use Pariah set over Fortified Brass set on a shielding build? Pariah becomes better only when you drop below 65% HP or something, which is where you dont want to be as a shielder.

If you are already at full HP, your shields are working fine and you don't need the extra mitigation. Pariah gives you resists at 100% HP as well, and kicks in full force, when you actually need to damage control. Also against high burst stamblades, stamdens or stamplars, good luck maintaining max HP, most of which will eat your shields anyways with bleeds.

You do realise that pariah is complete waste vs bleeds? Actually against bleeds there is just one method: turn around and don't feed the cheesy players.

And? Were you expecting some kind of a pass? At least you still have shields to take some of the pressure off rather than defiled healing.

Exactly ! Only NB's get a free pass. Sorcs need to face tank all kinds of damage now.

Feanor

If stacking spell damage was possible, people would do it. There are plenty of builds who have 5k+ weapon damage (upwards to 7k) while still maintaining a build that works.

Most magicka characters sit somewhere between 2.5k and 4k spell damage, and you quickly find out that the more spell damage you get the less playable your character becomes.

So, as with shield stacking, it’s a matter of available options.

Kadoin

I honestly would slot none of them in light armor.

Nicko_Lps

Feanor wrote: »

If stacking spell damage was possible, people would do it. There are plenty of builds who have 5k+ weapon damage (upwards to 7k) while still maintaining a build that works.

Most magicka characters sit somewhere between 2.5k and 4k spell damage, and you quickly find out that the more spell damage you get the less playable your character becomes.

So, as with shield stacking, it’s a matter of available options.

4k spell dmg magsorc?
That can sustain more than 1m duel?
Please show me how ;xD

Arkangeloski

Impregnable light + cp on light armor focus + some protective jewelz ie or 1 piece pirate skeleton or the whole set = ?

Brutusmax1mus

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Anken5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.

High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.

Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.

Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.

My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.

So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?

The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.

1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.

Recall that Major Sorcery exists in potion form. So...no. It's easier to stack spell damage - meme builds aside, so yes, I'm aware you CAN slot inner light + bound armor on an altmer maxsorc and whatever, but that doesn't really happen anymore. MUCH easier - where's my backbarred weapon enchant that gives 4500 max mag? Or a full max mag set that doesn't require a pet? Etc etc.

The closest you'll come to the ease with which you can get 20% increased spell damage is an altmer magicka nightblade using two different armor types. Which, coincidentally, if it's a light armor setup depends on shields the least due to cloak.

For the love of all that is holy, stop with the 'for free' BS.

There's also Continuous Attack, big point. Minor Sorcery from a friendly Templar will also be noticeable with Nerfmire.
Jewelry is also biased towards spellpower. You get 870 magicka for the trait, that's not even a set bonus. But a whopping 178 spellpower for the enchant, that's MORE than a set bonus. And you can even infuse it!

Max magicka builds, before the nerf, do it all, that's why they're good. The highest effective spell damage (max mag and spell dmg together) can be achieved by attacking both max mag and max magicka, but the build with max magicka is much easier to survive and sustain with bc of shields. Some schools have higher coefficients for dmg over magicka, and the opposite is true, although most are similar.

This change really only impacts stacking with crazy max mag to achieve large shields.

Nicko_Lps

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Impregnable light + cp on light armor focus + some protective jewelz ie or 1 piece pirate skeleton or the whole set = ?

So your amazing build has Impregnable light + lich that is mandatory for the worst sustaining class in the game.

Good, now how will you do damage?
That extra mag recovery you miss before lich procs?
That alot extra stam recovery you miss in general?
Max stamina?
Max magica?

All settled up, build is working perfectly.


Let me guess, magsorcs are damage beasts they dont need a dps set?

SirAndy

Did anyone posting here actually try and test their "solution" on the PTS?

Ragnarock41

I like how my respond is deleted by *** mods. I don't even care enough to ask why at this point.

Lord-Otto

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Anken5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.

High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.

Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.

Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.

My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.

So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?

The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.

1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.

Recall that Major Sorcery exists in potion form. So...no. It's easier to stack spell damage - meme builds aside, so yes, I'm aware you CAN slot inner light + bound armor on an altmer maxsorc and whatever, but that doesn't really happen anymore. MUCH easier - where's my backbarred weapon enchant that gives 4500 max mag? Or a full max mag set that doesn't require a pet? Etc etc.

The closest you'll come to the ease with which you can get 20% increased spell damage is an altmer magicka nightblade using two different armor types. Which, coincidentally, if it's a light armor setup depends on shields the least due to cloak.

For the love of all that is holy, stop with the 'for free' BS.

There's also Continuous Attack, big point. Minor Sorcery from a friendly Templar will also be noticeable with Nerfmire.
Jewelry is also biased towards spellpower. You get 870 magicka for the trait, that's not even a set bonus. But a whopping 178 spellpower for the enchant, that's MORE than a set bonus. And you can even infuse it!

Max magicka builds, before the nerf, do it all, that's why they're good. The highest effective spell damage (max mag and spell dmg together) can be achieved by attacking both max mag and max magicka, but the build with max magicka is much easier to survive and sustain with bc of shields. Some schools have higher coefficients for dmg over magicka, and the opposite is true, although most are similar.

This change really only impacts stacking with crazy max mag to achieve large shields.

Yup. And now imagine your defense would take ALL your stats, let's say, weapon damage, max stamina and weapon critchance. Or didn't need any scaling stats at all, and just evade any amounts of attacks aimed at you.
Sounds good, doesn't it?
(^_-)

There's no way around it - the shield nerfs are hypocritical, half-baked and unjustified. Sorcs will be in deep trouble next patch. But we got our awesome combat team to fix that in just three or six months. Great, right?

Brutusmax1mus

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Anken5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.

High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.

Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.

Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.

My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.

So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?

The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.

1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.

Recall that Major Sorcery exists in potion form. So...no. It's easier to stack spell damage - meme builds aside, so yes, I'm aware you CAN slot inner light + bound armor on an altmer maxsorc and whatever, but that doesn't really happen anymore. MUCH easier - where's my backbarred weapon enchant that gives 4500 max mag? Or a full max mag set that doesn't require a pet? Etc etc.

The closest you'll come to the ease with which you can get 20% increased spell damage is an altmer magicka nightblade using two different armor types. Which, coincidentally, if it's a light armor setup depends on shields the least due to cloak.

For the love of all that is holy, stop with the 'for free' BS.

There's also Continuous Attack, big point. Minor Sorcery from a friendly Templar will also be noticeable with Nerfmire.
Jewelry is also biased towards spellpower. You get 870 magicka for the trait, that's not even a set bonus. But a whopping 178 spellpower for the enchant, that's MORE than a set bonus. And you can even infuse it!

Max magicka builds, before the nerf, do it all, that's why they're good. The highest effective spell damage (max mag and spell dmg together) can be achieved by attacking both max mag and max magicka, but the build with max magicka is much easier to survive and sustain with bc of shields. Some schools have higher coefficients for dmg over magicka, and the opposite is true, although most are similar.

This change really only impacts stacking with crazy max mag to achieve large shields.

Yup. And now imagine your defense would take ALL your stats, let's say, weapon damage, max stamina and weapon critchance. Or didn't need any scaling stats at all, and just evade any amounts of attacks aimed at you.
Sounds good, doesn't it?
(^_-)

There's no way around it - the shield nerfs are hypocritical, half-baked and unjustified. Sorcs will be in deep trouble next patch. But we got our awesome combat team to fix that in just three or six months. Great, right?

They were justified imo. Can't believe the initial heal from healing ward is gone though.. that was ridiculous.

ezio45

Daus wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Just switch to heavy. Light armor is not viable in pvp anymore.

Shields don't benefit from increased healing received. I see no reason why magicka should switch to heavy when it's so easy to just use Pariah jewelry +2 armor pieces if you want that extra mitigation. Also concentration just got a nice buff since it'll buff your damage against shields now.

I mean with all you have to do to make shields viable you might as well switch to heavy

Lord-Otto

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Anken5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.

High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.

Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.

Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.

My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.

So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?

The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.

1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.

Recall that Major Sorcery exists in potion form. So...no. It's easier to stack spell damage - meme builds aside, so yes, I'm aware you CAN slot inner light + bound armor on an altmer maxsorc and whatever, but that doesn't really happen anymore. MUCH easier - where's my backbarred weapon enchant that gives 4500 max mag? Or a full max mag set that doesn't require a pet? Etc etc.

The closest you'll come to the ease with which you can get 20% increased spell damage is an altmer magicka nightblade using two different armor types. Which, coincidentally, if it's a light armor setup depends on shields the least due to cloak.

For the love of all that is holy, stop with the 'for free' BS.

There's also Continuous Attack, big point. Minor Sorcery from a friendly Templar will also be noticeable with Nerfmire.
Jewelry is also biased towards spellpower. You get 870 magicka for the trait, that's not even a set bonus. But a whopping 178 spellpower for the enchant, that's MORE than a set bonus. And you can even infuse it!

Max magicka builds, before the nerf, do it all, that's why they're good. The highest effective spell damage (max mag and spell dmg together) can be achieved by attacking both max mag and max magicka, but the build with max magicka is much easier to survive and sustain with bc of shields. Some schools have higher coefficients for dmg over magicka, and the opposite is true, although most are similar.

This change really only impacts stacking with crazy max mag to achieve large shields.

Yup. And now imagine your defense would take ALL your stats, let's say, weapon damage, max stamina and weapon critchance. Or didn't need any scaling stats at all, and just evade any amounts of attacks aimed at you.
Sounds good, doesn't it?
(^_-)

There's no way around it - the shield nerfs are hypocritical, half-baked and unjustified. Sorcs will be in deep trouble next patch. But we got our awesome combat team to fix that in just three or six months. Great, right?

They were justified imo. Can't believe the initial heal from healing ward is gone though.. that was ridiculous.

Hardly. Shields are already poop against 2+ people. They're strong in 1v1, but so is any turtle. Only that sorcs as a whole are poop in 1v1. And we already concluded that not shields are a design flaw in PvE, but stupid mechanics.

Healing Ward nerf is only the tip of the iceberg of a deep misunderstanding of combat design.

PhoenixGrey

Daus wrote: »

Depends. Shields will be potentially stronger than they are on live, but you'll have to sacrifice damage in order to achieve that.

Mag sorcs already do close to negligible damage compared to stam. How much more do we need to give up ?

Nicko_Lps

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Depends. Shields will be potentially stronger than they are on live, but you'll have to sacrifice damage in order to achieve that.

Mag sorcs already do close to negligible damage compared to stam. How much more do we need to give up ?

Everything.

Then we have to adjust even more dmg nerfs like fury nerf people ask for because it "steals" their BG kills.

Even if magsorc end up an AP bag inside cyrodiil, they will find for new things to whine about them and request more nerfs. The ESO way since 2014.

PhoenixGrey

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Anken5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Shields are only nerfed for glass cannon la builds. If you're a tanky templar/dk, you will get a lot more benefit out of them compared to before. The crit change was a nerf obviously but a needed one.

High magicka builds are not "glass cannon builds", however they are the most impacted by this nerf.

Magicka builds are as glass cannon as it gets. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to build for damage+sustain with a huge mag pool without giving anything up.

Building for damage would be spell-damage, not max magica. People choose max magica because spell-damage does nothing for their defence, even though it is better for damage.
Building for sustain does not mean maximising magica. It means recovery/cost reduction. And mag classes need a ton of it.
Mag classes cannot ignore stam, and often build with 15k stam at least ( which isn't the same as max mag) and 900-1100 stam recovery. This is for defence. I've ran stamina builds in the past with less stam recovery.
Shield builds often use well-fitted traits instead if impen. For defence. It's still a fricking defensive trait.

My magsorc runs 6 abilities for defence/mobility. 6, leaving only 4 standard abilities for offence.

So tell me again how shield builds ignore defence with no sacrifice?

The only 'glass cannon' builds are gank builds. The sooner people realise this the better.
Hopefully nerfmire will finally put an end to this ignorant bs, and people will start to realise they're just crap.

1000 magicka = 100 spell damage. People stack Magicka, as it is easier to stack Magicka more effectively compared to spell damage, which lacks multipliers compared to max magicka bonusses. It functionally works the same way, except for also giving you better sustain due to bigger pool available and also defense for free, due to shield scaling.

Recall that Major Sorcery exists in potion form. So...no. It's easier to stack spell damage - meme builds aside, so yes, I'm aware you CAN slot inner light + bound armor on an altmer maxsorc and whatever, but that doesn't really happen anymore. MUCH easier - where's my backbarred weapon enchant that gives 4500 max mag? Or a full max mag set that doesn't require a pet? Etc etc.

The closest you'll come to the ease with which you can get 20% increased spell damage is an altmer magicka nightblade using two different armor types. Which, coincidentally, if it's a light armor setup depends on shields the least due to cloak.

For the love of all that is holy, stop with the 'for free' BS.

There's also Continuous Attack, big point. Minor Sorcery from a friendly Templar will also be noticeable with Nerfmire.
Jewelry is also biased towards spellpower. You get 870 magicka for the trait, that's not even a set bonus. But a whopping 178 spellpower for the enchant, that's MORE than a set bonus. And you can even infuse it!

Max magicka builds, before the nerf, do it all, that's why they're good. The highest effective spell damage (max mag and spell dmg together) can be achieved by attacking both max mag and max magicka, but the build with max magicka is much easier to survive and sustain with bc of shields. Some schools have higher coefficients for dmg over magicka, and the opposite is true, although most are similar.

This change really only impacts stacking with crazy max mag to achieve large shields.

Yup. And now imagine your defense would take ALL your stats, let's say, weapon damage, max stamina and weapon critchance. Or didn't need any scaling stats at all, and just evade any amounts of attacks aimed at you.
Sounds good, doesn't it?
(^_-)

There's no way around it - the shield nerfs are hypocritical, half-baked and unjustified. Sorcs will be in deep trouble next patch. But we got our awesome combat team to fix that in just three or six months. Great, right?

They were justified imo. Can't believe the initial heal from healing ward is gone though.. that was ridiculous.

Hardly. Shields are already poop against 2+ people. They're strong in 1v1, but so is any turtle. Only that sorcs as a whole are poop in 1v1. And we already concluded that not shields are a design flaw in PvE, but stupid mechanics.

Healing Ward nerf is only the tip of the iceberg of a deep misunderstanding of combat design.

Idk about 1v1 as well. I have pretty much one shot sorcs through a full 15k hardened ward as well.

Maybe it's a bit difficult when shields are stacked. But my argument is if u spent 12k mag in the last 3 secs, the very least I can expect is not die instantly in the next 3.

pieratsos

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I like how my respond is deleted by *** mods. I don't even care enough to ask why at this point.

Considering that you were complaining about ur class being dead because of heroic slash nerf then its prob for the better that the comment telling people to L2P after all the nerfs was deleted.

Sygil05

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Depends. Shields will be potentially stronger than they are on live, but you'll have to sacrifice damage in order to achieve that.

Mag sorcs already do close to negligible damage compared to stam. How much more do we need to give up ?

Everything.

Then we have to adjust even more dmg nerfs like fury nerf people ask for because it "steals" their BG kills.

Even if magsorc end up an AP bag inside cyrodiil, they will find for new things to whine about them and request more nerfs. The ESO way since 2014.

They've always got more stuff for people to complain about and devs to take away. Don't forget, we still have that 6% chance to proc Implosion on enemies under 15% health if we hit them with shock damage, too.