Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end, whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.
Molag bal was a reward? The quest made me think he is some kind of badass and i expected to die a few times before i learned the mechanics and adapt to the boss, but no, he not only did not do dmg but his abilities or so lame for how strong the story made him to seem. That fight was a hype killer as i hoped that at least the final boss would pack a punch.
I do not get it why the Simulacrum of Molag Bal is so much stronger when even it can be soloed, take him out of the pvp context(as players are the main problem there) and give players the option to use the buff from The amulet of Kings or not, and he would have packed a punch..
JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »This game is not "too easy". It's challenging enough, arguably too challenging. Hard content does not equal fun, especially for people with lives outside of ESO.
Please leave the game's difficulty alone, or make it slightly more manageable, but definitely not harder.
I didn't like Dark Souls (I think 2 was the one I tried), I personally thought it was too hard. If you guys like banging your head against a wall trying to complete something, then be my guest. But don't be trying to make ESO into that. ESO is not Dark Souls. ESO, is an Elder Scrolls game, which means it should be interesting and enjoyable for all, with some challenge, but not so hard that it is too challenging and people quit the game.
Just because a very small percentage of the playerbase can faceroll the content like it's made of butter, doesn't mean everybody can.
@Mystrius_Archaion
You know,if you spend less time making overly long post here on the forum and more in game learning the basics you’ll eventually find the game easy too.
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »@Mystrius_Archaion
You know,if you spend less time making overly long post here on the forum and more in game learning the basics you’ll eventually find the game easy too.
It is easy, for me, but that does not mean the game is easy.
You don't understand the difference which is why you are so very wrong and we are all glad you don't design anything for this game. Even you would be glad you don't design for this game because if you did and had your money on the line or your job on the line then you would be losing money or out of a job because you wouldn't have enough customers.
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »@Mystrius_Archaion
You know,if you spend less time making overly long post here on the forum and more in game learning the basics you’ll eventually find the game easy too.
It is easy, for me, but that does not mean the game is easy.
You don't understand the difference which is why you are so very wrong and we are all glad you don't design anything for this game. Even you would be glad you don't design for this game because if you did and had your money on the line or your job on the line then you would be losing money or out of a job because you wouldn't have enough customers.
It’s hard to explain cause English is not even my third language but I’ll give a try.
You think that a game should cater to casuals right? And it’s true but it depends on which life cycle is the game.
We have 1) launch 2) growing/developing fan base 3) crystallising player base 4) slow decline
While is true that the game should be “easier” at the beginning of his life to appeal more people,once it burnt his catchment area (aka everyone interested in mmorpgs gave eso a try) it should start producing harder content to make sure veterans and whales don’t quit out of boredom cause there won’t any players left on market willing to start playing eso and having the same spending habits.
You probably just read an article about economics and gaming and feel confident,but you’re oversimplifying the concept of more easy content=more players=more money.
And I’m not interested in working at zos,Since I’ll earn more getting s job for what I’ve studied ^^
This game is way too easy. I enjoyed vMA when it first came out, and the same with vDSA in the very beginning. Hard Mode DLC/Trial content can be fun too.
Unfortunately these examples are not the majority of the game, and yes difficulty does equal fun. You don't find enjoyment playing a game where you're guaranteed to win. Fun is achieved by overcoming obstacles or fulfilling objectives that aren't easily achieved. The more difficult the content, the more accomplished you feel afterwards. High difficulty requires incentives though because we are lazy creatures, and if we can acquire something an easier/faster way we will; hence magicka.
The mentality among the PvE community has been we bring stam when you can bring magicka and get it done easier (or in some cases at all). This has led to the drastic changes we've seen in Murkmire, and it's been a long time coming, and obviously a lot of people are upset over the fact that this game is no longer going to be on easy mode for them.
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »This game is way too easy. I enjoyed vMA when it first came out, and the same with vDSA in the very beginning. Hard Mode DLC/Trial content can be fun too.
Unfortunately these examples are not the majority of the game, and yes difficulty does equal fun. You don't find enjoyment playing a game where you're guaranteed to win. Fun is achieved by overcoming obstacles or fulfilling objectives that aren't easily achieved. The more difficult the content, the more accomplished you feel afterwards. High difficulty requires incentives though because we are lazy creatures, and if we can acquire something an easier/faster way we will; hence magicka.
The mentality among the PvE community has been we bring stam when you can bring magicka and get it done easier (or in some cases at all). This has led to the drastic changes we've seen in Murkmire, and it's been a long time coming, and obviously a lot of people are upset over the fact that this game is no longer going to be on easy mode for them.
You contradict yourself.
If we're lazy then we don't want to put effort into difficult things.
Fun has never required incentive. I have fun because it is fun.
I'm sure you don't really know the true reason you play a game, the parts that aren't difficult especially. You still login for holiday events, for example, and I bet you have fun, but do you even know why? You probably never gave it enough thought.
If difficulty was the only fun and only reason we played games then we wouldn't be playing ESO at all because it supposedly isn't difficult for most of the game until you get to endgame.
That's what you are saying which contradicts itself.
Some of the most fun things in games I have ever done have not been difficult at all. Playing with physics engines for example keeps me entertained for very long times. For example, the grenade launches in the original Halo: Combat Evolved were so much fun and absolutely not difficult at all; just have two controllers and co-op mode, gather grenades and pile it up in one spot then drive a vehicle over it and detonate the grenades for awesome fun. The physics made it behave different every time so the entertainment was just finding out which ways it would go by moving things around. It was pure luck, not difficulty, in getting the launch to go anywhere specific.
Seriously, if we played games for difficulty then we would love our difficult jobs and love driving in heavy traffic with people weaving through traffic and almost wrecking our car with us in it. The only thing about difficulty that anybody ever enjoys is when it is over, but if it takes longer than tolerable to get over then people don't like it.
It's funny....so many people cite that "everyone just wants instant gratification" and yet they also say "people want difficult and challenge" which are polar opposites. You can't have "instant gratification" with a "difficult challenge in the way".
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »This game is way too easy. I enjoyed vMA when it first came out, and the same with vDSA in the very beginning. Hard Mode DLC/Trial content can be fun too.
Unfortunately these examples are not the majority of the game, and yes difficulty does equal fun. You don't find enjoyment playing a game where you're guaranteed to win. Fun is achieved by overcoming obstacles or fulfilling objectives that aren't easily achieved. The more difficult the content, the more accomplished you feel afterwards. High difficulty requires incentives though because we are lazy creatures, and if we can acquire something an easier/faster way we will; hence magicka.
The mentality among the PvE community has been we bring stam when you can bring magicka and get it done easier (or in some cases at all). This has led to the drastic changes we've seen in Murkmire, and it's been a long time coming, and obviously a lot of people are upset over the fact that this game is no longer going to be on easy mode for them.
You contradict yourself.
If we're lazy then we don't want to put effort into difficult things.
Fun has never required incentive. I have fun because it is fun.
I'm sure you don't really know the true reason you play a game, the parts that aren't difficult especially. You still login for holiday events, for example, and I bet you have fun, but do you even know why? You probably never gave it enough thought.
If difficulty was the only fun and only reason we played games then we wouldn't be playing ESO at all because it supposedly isn't difficult for most of the game until you get to endgame.
That's what you are saying which contradicts itself.
Some of the most fun things in games I have ever done have not been difficult at all. Playing with physics engines for example keeps me entertained for very long times. For example, the grenade launches in the original Halo: Combat Evolved were so much fun and absolutely not difficult at all; just have two controllers and co-op mode, gather grenades and pile it up in one spot then drive a vehicle over it and detonate the grenades for awesome fun. The physics made it behave different every time so the entertainment was just finding out which ways it would go by moving things around. It was pure luck, not difficulty, in getting the launch to go anywhere specific.
Seriously, if we played games for difficulty then we would love our difficult jobs and love driving in heavy traffic with people weaving through traffic and almost wrecking our car with us in it. The only thing about difficulty that anybody ever enjoys is when it is over, but if it takes longer than tolerable to get over then people don't like it.
It's funny....so many people cite that "everyone just wants instant gratification" and yet they also say "people want difficult and challenge" which are polar opposites. You can't have "instant gratification" with a "difficult challenge in the way".
There's no contradiction in stating that I want difficult content with incentives, because challenging content is enjoyable. Not that difficult to discern.
As far as why I play the game? PvP. It's the only content with longevity. New challenging PvE content is fun, but hand fed victory isn't. For instance, I've managed to do the new DLC dungeons on hard mode, but I have yet to beat the main story for either clockwork city or Summerset. The PvE is too easy to the point where it's a chore for me to even play it.
The issue is that once you've beaten this PvE content there's little reason to do it again because there's nothing random about the fight.
VaranisArano wrote: »Yes, PVE nerfs happen when PVEers find the game too easy.
And yes, by the devs' standards, PVEers are finding vet end-game content too easy. We've seen the high DPS bragging, the complaints about healers being useless compared to a 3rd damage dealer, and that damage shields make things simple. As for overland, well, that's been easy since One Tamriel.
This isnt even the first time this happened. The Great Sustain Nerfs of Morrowind were another situation where PVE end game content was becoming too easy for players, so ZOS nerfed sustain.
Are the nerfs a good thing? The nerfs are a good thing for the Developers. Now, they dont have to design super hard new content for top tier end game players that nobody else can touch.
Think about vAS and vCR. Now consider what ZOS would have to do to design harder content for higher DPS. There's a reason the devs nerf players.
Now, mind you, the devs also nerf the meta on a regular basis to encourage players who care about chasing the meta to grind. That's constantly happening since One Tamriel and is a different type of nerf than this across the board nerf to survivability to reset the difficulty of end-game content.
VaranisArano wrote: »Yes, PVE nerfs happen when PVEers find the game too easy.
And yes, by the devs' standards, PVEers are finding vet end-game content too easy. We've seen the high DPS bragging, the complaints about healers being useless compared to a 3rd damage dealer, and that damage shields make things simple. As for overland, well, that's been easy since One Tamriel.
This isnt even the first time this happened. The Great Sustain Nerfs of Morrowind were another situation where PVE end game content was becoming too easy for players, so ZOS nerfed sustain.
Are the nerfs a good thing? The nerfs are a good thing for the Developers. Now, they dont have to design super hard new content for top tier end game players that nobody else can touch.
Think about vAS and vCR. Now consider what ZOS would have to do to design harder content for higher DPS. There's a reason the devs nerf players.
Now, mind you, the devs also nerf the meta on a regular basis to encourage players who care about chasing the meta to grind. That's constantly happening since One Tamriel and is a different type of nerf than this across the board nerf to survivability to reset the difficulty of end-game content.
Everyone must have Immortal Redeemer or Gryphon Heart or Tick-Tock Tormentor, then! That Pure Lunacy achievement must be raining from the skies.
PvE too easy? The top players in the world doing pad 3 vMoL HM burns literally don't need shields because by doing a pad 3 burn, they aren't being exposed to the Breath of Lorkhaj debuff that forces them out of healing and defiles them. The vast majority of players who can beat vMoL can't beat vMoL HM, and it'll be even harder for those players now that they have much weaker shields that will get instantly shredded when Void Spheres pop, instantly exposing them to health damage that can't be easily healed because of Breath of Lorkhaj.
I suggest that anyone who thinks that PvE is too easy to PUG a vet DLC dungeon via group finder.
VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Yes, PVE nerfs happen when PVEers find the game too easy.
And yes, by the devs' standards, PVEers are finding vet end-game content too easy. We've seen the high DPS bragging, the complaints about healers being useless compared to a 3rd damage dealer, and that damage shields make things simple. As for overland, well, that's been easy since One Tamriel.
This isnt even the first time this happened. The Great Sustain Nerfs of Morrowind were another situation where PVE end game content was becoming too easy for players, so ZOS nerfed sustain.
Are the nerfs a good thing? The nerfs are a good thing for the Developers. Now, they dont have to design super hard new content for top tier end game players that nobody else can touch.
Think about vAS and vCR. Now consider what ZOS would have to do to design harder content for higher DPS. There's a reason the devs nerf players.
Now, mind you, the devs also nerf the meta on a regular basis to encourage players who care about chasing the meta to grind. That's constantly happening since One Tamriel and is a different type of nerf than this across the board nerf to survivability to reset the difficulty of end-game content.
Everyone must have Immortal Redeemer or Gryphon Heart or Tick-Tock Tormentor, then! That Pure Lunacy achievement must be raining from the skies.
PvE too easy? The top players in the world doing pad 3 vMoL HM burns literally don't need shields because by doing a pad 3 burn, they aren't being exposed to the Breath of Lorkhaj debuff that forces them out of healing and defiles them. The vast majority of players who can beat vMoL can't beat vMoL HM, and it'll be even harder for those players now that they have much weaker shields that will get instantly shredded when Void Spheres pop, instantly exposing them to health damage that can't be easily healed because of Breath of Lorkhaj.
I suggest that anyone who thinks that PvE is too easy to PUG a vet DLC dungeon via group finder.
That's part of the point. The Devs can't possibly design content to appease the very top tier of players who do DPS high enough to skip mechanics. If they did, the vast majority of players could never touch it.
Instead, ZOS nerfs the top tier, so they can keep the level of DPS needed to complete content within reach of most players who do that content, with hard mode as a challenge.
SirLeeMinion wrote: »Malem_Benign wrote: »Hello again,
After watching this interesting show for some time I've finally get the idea...
I have to reluctantly agree with much of this. One sees the many "Git Gud" and "It's too easy,;I cleared VMA naked in 28 seconds" posts. A quick and dirty Google search suggests very few have actually completed VMA; posts from a year ago put it under 1/2% on consoles. I'm trying for a second clear (on my main account) knowing I won't even attempt it again once shield nerfs go through.
I play the game for fun, not to "git gud" at something that doesn't matter or be forced into a high-commitment group activity that will take 2 hours. Someone will say, "MMO." Watching guild chat and player locations suggests that most players fit this mold and most are going through content solo or in PUGs. PvP has to be balanced around top-tier players. The majority of PvE does not. In the end, I vote my wallet. I have yet to purchase a single dungeon DLC and won't unless they release content that is soloable or fun to do casually with PUGS. Maybe the top 5% of players are spending 95% of the money. If not, it's difficult to understand why ZOS is choosing this path.
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »This game is way too easy. I enjoyed vMA when it first came out, and the same with vDSA in the very beginning. Hard Mode DLC/Trial content can be fun too.
Unfortunately these examples are not the majority of the game, and yes difficulty does equal fun. You don't find enjoyment playing a game where you're guaranteed to win. Fun is achieved by overcoming obstacles or fulfilling objectives that aren't easily achieved. The more difficult the content, the more accomplished you feel afterwards. High difficulty requires incentives though because we are lazy creatures, and if we can acquire something an easier/faster way we will; hence magicka.
The mentality among the PvE community has been we bring stam when you can bring magicka and get it done easier (or in some cases at all). This has led to the drastic changes we've seen in Murkmire, and it's been a long time coming, and obviously a lot of people are upset over the fact that this game is no longer going to be on easy mode for them.
You contradict yourself.
If we're lazy then we don't want to put effort into difficult things.
Fun has never required incentive. I have fun because it is fun.
I'm sure you don't really know the true reason you play a game, the parts that aren't difficult especially. You still login for holiday events, for example, and I bet you have fun, but do you even know why? You probably never gave it enough thought.
If difficulty was the only fun and only reason we played games then we wouldn't be playing ESO at all because it supposedly isn't difficult for most of the game until you get to endgame.
That's what you are saying which contradicts itself.
Some of the most fun things in games I have ever done have not been difficult at all. Playing with physics engines for example keeps me entertained for very long times. For example, the grenade launches in the original Halo: Combat Evolved were so much fun and absolutely not difficult at all; just have two controllers and co-op mode, gather grenades and pile it up in one spot then drive a vehicle over it and detonate the grenades for awesome fun. The physics made it behave different every time so the entertainment was just finding out which ways it would go by moving things around. It was pure luck, not difficulty, in getting the launch to go anywhere specific.
Seriously, if we played games for difficulty then we would love our difficult jobs and love driving in heavy traffic with people weaving through traffic and almost wrecking our car with us in it. The only thing about difficulty that anybody ever enjoys is when it is over, but if it takes longer than tolerable to get over then people don't like it.
It's funny....so many people cite that "everyone just wants instant gratification" and yet they also say "people want difficult and challenge" which are polar opposites. You can't have "instant gratification" with a "difficult challenge in the way".
There's no contradiction in stating that I want difficult content with incentives, because challenging content is enjoyable. Not that difficult to discern.
As far as why I play the game? PvP. It's the only content with longevity. New challenging PvE content is fun, but hand fed victory isn't. For instance, I've managed to do the new DLC dungeons on hard mode, but I have yet to beat the main story for either clockwork city or Summerset. The PvE is too easy to the point where it's a chore for me to even play it.
The issue is that once you've beaten this PvE content there's little reason to do it again because there's nothing random about the fight.
And yet the majority of people playing the game don't PVP and don't do hard modes or even veteran content.
You're in the minority and yet you seem to think that the majority wants the same things you want.
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »This game is way too easy. I enjoyed vMA when it first came out, and the same with vDSA in the very beginning. Hard Mode DLC/Trial content can be fun too.
Unfortunately these examples are not the majority of the game, and yes difficulty does equal fun. You don't find enjoyment playing a game where you're guaranteed to win. Fun is achieved by overcoming obstacles or fulfilling objectives that aren't easily achieved. The more difficult the content, the more accomplished you feel afterwards. High difficulty requires incentives though because we are lazy creatures, and if we can acquire something an easier/faster way we will; hence magicka.
The mentality among the PvE community has been we bring stam when you can bring magicka and get it done easier (or in some cases at all). This has led to the drastic changes we've seen in Murkmire, and it's been a long time coming, and obviously a lot of people are upset over the fact that this game is no longer going to be on easy mode for them.
You contradict yourself.
If we're lazy then we don't want to put effort into difficult things.
Fun has never required incentive. I have fun because it is fun.
I'm sure you don't really know the true reason you play a game, the parts that aren't difficult especially. You still login for holiday events, for example, and I bet you have fun, but do you even know why? You probably never gave it enough thought.
If difficulty was the only fun and only reason we played games then we wouldn't be playing ESO at all because it supposedly isn't difficult for most of the game until you get to endgame.
That's what you are saying which contradicts itself.
Some of the most fun things in games I have ever done have not been difficult at all. Playing with physics engines for example keeps me entertained for very long times. For example, the grenade launches in the original Halo: Combat Evolved were so much fun and absolutely not difficult at all; just have two controllers and co-op mode, gather grenades and pile it up in one spot then drive a vehicle over it and detonate the grenades for awesome fun. The physics made it behave different every time so the entertainment was just finding out which ways it would go by moving things around. It was pure luck, not difficulty, in getting the launch to go anywhere specific.
Seriously, if we played games for difficulty then we would love our difficult jobs and love driving in heavy traffic with people weaving through traffic and almost wrecking our car with us in it. The only thing about difficulty that anybody ever enjoys is when it is over, but if it takes longer than tolerable to get over then people don't like it.
It's funny....so many people cite that "everyone just wants instant gratification" and yet they also say "people want difficult and challenge" which are polar opposites. You can't have "instant gratification" with a "difficult challenge in the way".
There's no contradiction in stating that I want difficult content with incentives, because challenging content is enjoyable. Not that difficult to discern.
As far as why I play the game? PvP. It's the only content with longevity. New challenging PvE content is fun, but hand fed victory isn't. For instance, I've managed to do the new DLC dungeons on hard mode, but I have yet to beat the main story for either clockwork city or Summerset. The PvE is too easy to the point where it's a chore for me to even play it.
The issue is that once you've beaten this PvE content there's little reason to do it again because there's nothing random about the fight.
And yet the majority of people playing the game don't PVP and don't do hard modes or even veteran content.
You're in the minority and yet you seem to think that the majority wants the same things you want.
Being part of a minority that enjoys intellectually stimulating content isn't a bad thing. Appealing to lowest common denominator just dumbs down the content.
Waffennacht wrote: »There is a simple fact; which does make me wonder:
They expressed how they wish to "raise the floor, lower the ceiling" however the changes in murk mire (to me) are the exact opposite of that.
Waffennacht wrote: »There is a simple fact; which does make me wonder:
They expressed how they wish to "raise the floor, lower the ceiling" however the changes in murk mire (to me) are the exact opposite of that.
Capping Shields, nerfing movement speed, making CC abilities deal low damage, are all skill gap creators.
Sure I can still solo most vet dungeons (non dlc) without a shield at all - most players have difficulty finishing that same content in a group.
Sure I can time abilities to land with my CC, time a roll dodge, use LoS etc - so movement Nerfs and damage Nerfs don't really change the level of difficulty for me; a lot of players can't score a kill even with an "OP God mode " class.
I also cite how I can almost guarantee any forum member is better than a non-forum visitor. We make up a very insignificant percentage (I've only ran into one other forum member randomly in game and I ask a lot). Most players won't even know the extent of the changes happening.
I personally feel that these changes hurt causals far more
VaranisArano wrote: »Yes, PVE nerfs happen when PVEers find the game too easy.
And yes, by the devs' standards, PVEers are finding vet end-game content too easy. We've seen the high DPS bragging, the complaints about healers being useless compared to a 3rd damage dealer, and that damage shields make things simple. As for overland, well, that's been easy since One Tamriel.
This isnt even the first time this happened. The Great Sustain Nerfs of Morrowind were another situation where PVE end game content was becoming too easy for players, so ZOS nerfed sustain.
Are the nerfs a good thing? The nerfs are a good thing for the Developers. Now, they dont have to design super hard new content for top tier end game players that nobody else can touch.
Think about vAS and vCR. Now consider what ZOS would have to do to design harder content for higher DPS. There's a reason the devs nerf players.
Now, mind you, the devs also nerf the meta on a regular basis to encourage players who care about chasing the meta to grind. That's constantly happening since One Tamriel and is a different type of nerf than this across the board nerf to survivability to reset the difficulty of end-game content.
Everyone must have Immortal Redeemer or Gryphon Heart or Tick-Tock Tormentor, then! That Pure Lunacy achievement must be raining from the skies.
PvE too easy? The top players in the world doing pad 3 vMoL HM burns literally don't need shields because by doing a pad 3 burn, they aren't being exposed to the Breath of Lorkhaj debuff that forces them out of healing and defiles them. The vast majority of players who can beat vMoL can't beat vMoL HM, and it'll be even harder for those players now that they have much weaker shields that will get instantly shredded when Void Spheres pop, instantly exposing them to health damage that can't be easily healed because of Breath of Lorkhaj.
I suggest that anyone who thinks that PvE is too easy to PUG a vet DLC dungeon via group finder.
Malem_Benign wrote: »You guys again and again miss the true intentions of what is happening and drown in the mutual controversity.
There is nothing but money behind all that stuff. More or less. Nothing more.
That's the difference between game-as-a-service and the single player game where there is only one intention - to make you satisfied so more ppl will buy same product.
You have to keep in mind that all the time you try to find the logic in such kind of things.
This product is intented to force you to constant time and money spending for the ZoS company. No other means are behind all this.
When you try to discuss different approaches, logically interprete the developers moves and other stuff - you just legirimize all this nonsense that is used to hide the true intentions.
And the only way to influence all that stuff is to stand ground before these greedy intentions. Like it was with Battlefront.
You have to decide that the level of dev's greed is enough from your point of view and you have to declare that. To show, that you are the full rights participant of this product and process, because it's you who pay them money.
Only after that you can discuss with the devs the REAL balance changes, improvements and other stuff. When you are on the same level during that discussion.
It's like in real life - democracy and dictatorship. All the same.
Malem_Benign wrote: »You obviously seem to really dislike the game so whats the point really?
Some of us are still here because we love the TES universe and have put hundreds or thousands of hours in to our main and we see ZOS slowly killing not just ESO but the TES franchise itself.