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SUGGESTION TO DEVS: split off VET DLC dungeons in Random Group finder

  • Azurya
    Azurya
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    for me, as a member of eso+, it is obvious that I have access to the dlc dungeons
    ergo, they should be available per dungeonfinder, in the package and NOT seperated,
    because that would bring nothing,
    and dungeons seperated does not bring anything, those who have no access, are not able to queue for those now
    and just to give those a timely advantage, (not wanting to wait that long in queue) it should be changed???

    if it should be changed then in the way that ESO+ members and owners of DLC´s are placed premium in queues!
    Fear not, for I am watchful. You have been chosen.
    Azura, the Daedric Prince of Moonshadow, Mother of the Rose, and Queen of the Night Sky


    Hail to Sithis, blood's drop on blade's edge.
    Before you, nothing. Behind you, the Void.
    Catalyst, agitator, many-fanged maw.
    Whisper your need to the Scales.
    — Inscription found on an Argonian blade
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    eso_nya wrote: »
    Still waiting on a DLC Dungeon that i finish and say "That was so cool, i wanna do it again".

    Most of the time is more like "Oh no, im slowed again, im gonna lay down here next to the statue and die. Pls dont rezz me." or "Lets get done with the achievs so we never have to go there again".

    Making them fun and rewarding would be preferable, but until than, yeah plox let me opt out w/o cancelling sub.

    don't agree there. The last 4 DLC dungeons they added I find fun because of their mechanics. The super mario bros style play in bloodroot forge lava parts for instance I love. The minotaur boss Galchobar is one of my favorite fights in the game because the mechanics cause for a challenging and fun extra layer of gameplay on top of just doing your role.
  • Fischblut
    Fischblut
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    Splitting up all vet dungeons like you suggested in 3 levels would cause the queues for dps to become hours and hours because cp 1-160 would only have access to a limited portion of the dungeons while the others would never find a tank/healer in time. Eventually as most level past cp160 they in turn become the extinct category that never finds people...think about it

    I agree that amount of CP is never an indicator of a good player. Also sometimes, it's better not to find group at all :/

    Few days ago, when CoH I was pledge, I thought "what can go wrong in this easy dungeon?" and queued as dd for vet, was sure to do hard mode of course. I ended up with three ~720 CP wardens, and they were either very stupid, or have just bought their accounts or something... :o Nobody had taunt. Bosses focused me after some time cause even combined those 3 clowns did less damage than me :/ They were dying left and right on each boss (despite all their resto staves, flowers and trees); even funnier - if one of them died, nobody ressed each other. Basically if I didn't res anyone, I would end up with 3 useless bodies lying around (instead of running around). They wouldn't let me activate scroll at the last boss, constantly running in and then running away from blue twin out of room and resetting them. Even when I finally gave up on trying to activate scroll, they still rushed ahead, aggroed blue twin and pulled him out of room, resetting the fight again and again. I managed to put Inner Fire on my bar in out of combat moment - it really saved the run. So me, squishy medium armor stamblade was tanking blue twin, and those 3 useless bodies were still dying to red twin and AOEs... What the hell? :| I had to taunt both twins, but I did solo them once on my stamsorc (before update 14 though). Much harder to do it now, especially as stamblade. So while I taunt both bosses, those 3 clowns still manage to die one by one (and of course none of them ressed each other, they didn't even try - I suppose seller of their accounts didn't teach them what soul gem is and how to res). After bosses finally died, I wanted to say so many bad things :D But I said only "oh my :\" and left immediately. I wish I could record videos, would be nice comedy to watch :) Do I want such 720 CPs in DLC dungeons, even if simple CoH I is full stop for them?.. :smiley:

    Two days ago me (as dd) and a friend (as tank) decided to queue for another run of Falkreath Hold and wanted to do hard mode for motif. After 3 hours, 1.5 of which were wasted in simply waiting for replacements of other dd and healers, we agreed that we need a little break from using dungeon finder, even though we had nice practice in "we can do Domihaus without or almost without a healer" :D We ended up doing whole dungeon of hard mode, so there was no point to activate it on last boss :/
    Healers who don't do anything useful, dds who do 15% of damage. Especially I loved ~400 CP sorc "dd" with 21k health - without food :o My sorc in heavy armor for pvp has 15k health without food...
    Also ~500 CP healer with 28k health, dying almost at every mechanic and not even always getting up after being ressed - cause he just hoped to leech and get a helm (and maybe motif) after being carried :D I'm usually very patient and try to remain friendly, but even I couldn't allow such disgusting behavior. He was replaced by ~200 CP sorc healer, who wasn't actually much better - but at least he could survive more than previous one.

    I really have no idea how to make sure that only experienced and/or decent players (meaning they can perform their role and can learn mechanics) use finder, especially for DLC dungeons :/
    Maybe force check if player has completed this DLC dungeon on normal mode and have completed all II non-dlc dungeons on vet. If no, do not put him in vet DLC dungeons. Even this won't be a 100% guarantee, but still better than what we have now... Also display a huge warning screen if player queues for random vet and has access to DLC dungeons... I'm really desperate, cause finder is my main option to run dungeons, and I'm kind of sick of wasting time+potions+repair kits. I remember when few days ago me and a friend (both dds) got into a nice pug group for SP, and after we completed it with just a few wipes, I counted that I used only 47 potions. Not a single repair kit used, just a few soul gems used, low cost of repair at merchant, low amount of wasted potions, a monster head - it's sad how rarely it all happens in DLC dungeons :/
    Edited by Fischblut on March 12, 2018 10:54AM
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    Looks like you witnessed again clear examples of lacking skill even when the gear and CP was present. I run random pugs daily and see this all time time. For this exact reason a CP/level check is not enough. If I were to be in charge of designing and improving the group finder tool I would implement first of all the changes I proposed earlier in my original post of this thread as well as implement the following minimum checks per difficulty layer of the random queue:

    -CP/level check= you must have X CP in order to be able to queue for this particular layer (a level check is already in place btw for dlc normal dungeons. This is just an extension into vet content and vet DLC content) For vet non-DLC it would be free of requirement and for vet-DLC it would be 300 so people can get the basic dmge mitigation from cp points.

    -Skill check= you must have completed X rounds of the Tank/Healer/DPS solo-dungeon tutorial to unlock this difficulty layer (=a sort mini vMA for your particular class role where each round increases the diffulty where the first rounds are about learning and demonstrating the basic healing/dps/tanking skills while the final round is a copy of last boss vFH HM or vROM). Completing up to round 4 would unlock access to VET non-DLC random queue while completing all 6 rounds would unlock VET DLC random queue and vet trials
  • Sjizzle
    Sjizzle
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    i better option would be to add premade groups where players can sign up for spec. dungeon groups...like WoW
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    Sjizzle wrote: »
    i better option would be to add premade groups where players can sign up for spec. dungeon groups...like WoW

    I'm not sure I understand you correctly but I thought this functionality is already present currently. 2,3 or 4 people can currently form a pre-made party and queue random finder or queue for a specific dungeon of choice as pre-made group and the group finder will add the missing people.
  • Sjizzle
    Sjizzle
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    Sjizzle wrote: »
    i better option would be to add premade groups where players can sign up for spec. dungeon groups...like WoW

    I'm not sure I understand you correctly but I thought this functionality is already present currently. 2,3 or 4 people can currently form a pre-made party and queue random finder or queue for a specific dungeon of choice as pre-made group and the group finder will add the missing people.

    no need to que u list your party and w8 for players to sign up and then u can /w them if they know the mechanics, they was there before etc etc and inv only who know what to do in the specific dungeon !
    Edited by Sjizzle on March 13, 2018 10:33AM
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    Sjizzle wrote: »
    Sjizzle wrote: »
    i better option would be to add premade groups where players can sign up for spec. dungeon groups...like WoW

    I'm not sure I understand you correctly but I thought this functionality is already present currently. 2,3 or 4 people can currently form a pre-made party and queue random finder or queue for a specific dungeon of choice as pre-made group and the group finder will add the missing people.

    no need to que u list your party and w8 for players to sign up and then u can /w them if they know the mechanics, they was there before etc etc and inv only who know what to do in the specific dungeon !

    Ah I'm not familiar with that functionality of WOW. So you kind of publicly advertise your desired party and after people saw it they can contact you like a job interview before you go in.

    Ok I think I understand but isn't that more or less the same as is currently done in Stormhaven and other major cities: Shouting out the purpose of the desired group "LF2M healer/tank vWGT HM" and then whisper people to ask their credentials in order to form a premade group and after the premade group is complete enter manually or through group finder ?
  • benjamin.daprileb14a_ESO
    Id say no as it wont happen, as they will be the deadest of all dungeons and ZoS wants people to run all content.

    Why run random vet anyway? Surely random normal is the obz choice for a randeo dungeo?

    Normal gives same XP bonus, and a Geode, and is like so much easier to complete, cant see any reason other than 'I just wanna do random Vet' for choosing it.

    I'd say mainly because people who are both grinding for Undaunted while still doing a random for XP want to do a vet because it gives more undaunted.
  • exiars10
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    exiars10 wrote: »
    Fully support separation.
    -Some people have canceled their ESO plus in order to be able to queue for "random VET but not DLC". This solution would give them that button regardless of being eso plus or not.
    I tried ESO Plus for one month and that thing drove me crazy as the new player. I would constantly get into DLC dungeons and especially I was getting into WGT days after days (Random Premium Daily) and I hate that dungeon the most!

    What happened next?
    -Many people leave instantly upon arriving in a vet DLC dungeon because they are gambling (hoping) not to get a vet DLC dungeon.
    No ESO Plus so no more worring about it.

    And I subsribed again after two months and FIRST RANDOM PREMIUM DAILY is, guess what, Scalecaller Peak!!! Suprise.

    Of course I left it. I don't want to play DLC dungeons at all in random daily (premium) ever unless I choose. I don't like DLC dungeons at all. Give us option to disable DLC dungeons in finder.
    I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...

    Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)

    The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    Well, thx guys there's been clear response and voting so far. I know it's a long shot but it would be really nice and useful if one of the devs or ZOS team could come in here and at least acknowledge this and maybe say something about this or clarify ZOS' view on this.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno
    @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
    @ZOS_Chris
    @ZOS_CoriJ
    @ZOS_KatP
    @ZOS_MattL
    @ZOS_RichLambert
    @ZOS_Holden
  • idk
    idk
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    It is pretty simple.

    1. have a check box to include DLC dungeons in to the random.
    2. Offer the purple reward for random vet dundeons when DLCs are checked to be included as an option.
    3. Offer the blue quality reward for random when the vet DLCs are not checked to be included.

    Logical and straight forward solution that both deals with the rewards well and permits others to take the easier route for the vet random dungeons. Win/Win.

    If you think they would be split and nothing else would change then you are ignoring logic and will be in for a huge surprise if Zos every does split them. There is no logic that says you take less of a chance and get the same reward.

    It seems the thread has died again. While the poll itself is entertainment only since it lacks statistical relevance the lack of interest in the thread speaks more to the issue.
    Edited by idk on March 21, 2018 3:19PM
    Really, idk
  • Highstake
    Highstake
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    I say, splitting wouldn't change a thing.
    Instead, group tool should have extra filters, such as role, level, cp level, dps/heal/tank check + eligible dungs; extra option, letting ppl to know about forming groups, just like the groups open/pass protected in TS/Discord...
  • idk
    idk
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    Highstake wrote: »
    I say, splitting wouldn't change a thing.
    Instead, group tool should have extra filters, such as role, level, cp level, dps/heal/tank check + eligible dungs; extra option, letting ppl to know about forming groups, just like the groups open/pass protected in TS/Discord...

    There is already a DPS/Heal/Tank check. They do not look like check boxes but they essentially work like them. We are informed the group is forming as well and pretty sure those who have gotten to vet level have learned to form their own group.

    CP is a given as well. They must have some and what is funny, starting a new account and at CP 160 being able to out dps those at CP cap merely demonstrates efforts to have a minimum CP requirement for dungeons is such a weak idea.
    Really, idk
  • CompM4s
    CompM4s
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    Yeah its pretty bad trying to pug a 4 man trial
  • exiars10
    exiars10
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    Sadly, so far nothing about splitting DLC dungeons in Summerset :(.

    I stopped playing random daily since again as I have ESO+. Tried several times and it's always DLC dungeon which means I automatically leave group, and then get 15 min penalty. Potential 100k bonus xp is not worth it not to mention losing precious time - I pull much more xp around Spellscar plus I earn more gold in the same time.

    I wish you could disable DLC
    When I didn’t have ESO+ I could queue for random dungeons without worrying about getting one that most pugs fail at or leave instantly making me wait 15 more minutes to queue and I could quest through entire zones without having a ton of “go take the boat/caravan to X” markers on my maps.

    If I could just turn the DLCs off until I was ready that would be great. Or at the very least let me “ban” 2-3 dungeons from my queue so I can still do random dungeons with a select few removed from the list.

    Not a huge deal, just would be nice.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8bpvz8/i_wish_you_could_disable_dlc/

    This reddit thread was opened yesterday and I remembered we have thread here, too, but sadly, nothing will happen...
    I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...

    Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)

    The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.
  • Azurya
    Azurya
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    exiars10 wrote: »
    Not a huge deal, just would be nice.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8bpvz8/i_wish_you_could_disable_dlc/

    This reddit thread was opened yesterday and I remembered we have thread here, too, but sadly, nothing will happen...
    [/quote]


    why should we do this? just to please some cheapskates??
    NO, I propose therefor:
    for me, as a member of eso+, it is obvious that I have access to the dlc dungeons
    ergo, they should be available per dungeonfinder, in the package and NOT seperated,
    because that would bring nothing, but following should be taken in consideration:

    if it should be changed then in the way that ESO+ members and owners of DLC´s are placed premium in queues!
    Edited by Azurya on April 13, 2018 12:33PM
    Fear not, for I am watchful. You have been chosen.
    Azura, the Daedric Prince of Moonshadow, Mother of the Rose, and Queen of the Night Sky


    Hail to Sithis, blood's drop on blade's edge.
    Before you, nothing. Behind you, the Void.
    Catalyst, agitator, many-fanged maw.
    Whisper your need to the Scales.
    — Inscription found on an Argonian blade
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    With summerset in sight and balancing coming I'm sure there must at least be awareness now within the random finder design team.

    I have to believe that they are aware of the opinions and results here but choose not to officially acknowledge it here by replying.

    The fact that it's in our face and annoying us every day and people keep coming back to this issue on the forums speaks for itself...

    Don't lose your hope guys ! ;)
  • exiars10
    exiars10
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    We just want to disable DLC dungeons. It's a matter of choice. Those dungeons are for hard core players, remember, vast majority are casual players. Playing ESO is not my job so I don't want to be placed in DLC dungeons, comprende?

    How hard is that to understand?

    On Steam you can disable DLC of every Steamworks game. EVERY!

    I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...

    Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)

    The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.
  • exiars10
    exiars10
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    With summerset in sight and balancing coming I'm sure there must at least be awareness now within the random finder design team.

    I have to believe that they are aware of the opinions and results here but choose not to officially acknowledge it here by replying.

    The fact that it's in our face and annoying us every day and people keep coming back to this issue on the forums speaks for itself...

    Don't lose your hope guys ! ;)
    That reddit thread is gold. No need for separate DLC Dungeon Finder as that is probably too much coding.

    Just give us option to disable DLCs we don't want to play like on Steam you can disable every DLC for every Steamworks game.

    For example, we enter into DLC Collection and disable what we want. Simple and effective and no separation of Dungeon Finder. I can't wait to disable:
    1) Imperial City
    2) Shadows of the Hist
    3) Horns of the Reach
    4) Dragon Bones

    and any future Dungeon DLC.
    Edited by exiars10 on April 13, 2018 12:54PM
    I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...

    Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)

    The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.
  • DMuehlhausen
    DMuehlhausen
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    Id say no as it wont happen, as they will be the deadest of all dungeons and ZoS wants people to run all content.

    Why run random vet anyway? Surely random normal is the obz choice for a randeo dungeo?

    Normal gives same XP bonus, and a Geode, and is like so much easier to complete, cant see any reason other than 'I just wanna do random Vet' for choosing it.

    Cause CP means almost nothing. I've seen CP 1000 people that just heavy and light attack.
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    exiars10 wrote: »
    With summerset in sight and balancing coming I'm sure there must at least be awareness now within the random finder design team.

    I have to believe that they are aware of the opinions and results here but choose not to officially acknowledge it here by replying.

    The fact that it's in our face and annoying us every day and people keep coming back to this issue on the forums speaks for itself...

    Don't lose your hope guys ! ;)
    That reddit thread is gold. No need for separate DLC Dungeon Finder as that is probably too much coding.

    Just give us option to disable DLCs we don't want to play like on Steam you can disable every DLC for every Steamworks game.

    For example, we enter into DLC Collection and disable what we want. Simple and effective and no separation of Dungeon Finder. I can't wait to disable:
    1) Imperial City
    2) Shadows of the Hist
    3) Horns of the Reach
    4) Dragon Bones

    and any future Dungeon DLC.

    but would it make sense then that you get the same reward as someone who takes the risk of getting a DLC dungeon ?
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    Good news everyone: One of the suggestions I made in the original thread (300 min cp requirement for vet dlc dungeons) has been implemented in the PTS for summerset. It's not much and by far not enough, but it's a start. Maybe the devs do listen after all ;)
  • abelsgmx
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    Kinda annoying buy a DLC's and see how hard are the dungeons to complete with lag. As a tank I don't have any problem in queues, I just press Alt + F4 when a DLC dungeon splash screen appear. I am sorry for people who need to wait several minutes for another tank
    Edited by abelsgmx on September 28, 2018 4:49PM
  • Myyth
    Myyth
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    I purposely do not subscribe because I do not want DLC dungeons when doing the random daily quest. This is the only game I know of that rewards you for not paying.

    I actually wish I could subscribe and would right away if they split the dungeons. Until then, no, its not worth the hassle of repeatedly failed groups.
    Edited by Myyth on September 30, 2018 7:54PM
  • StamWhipCultist
    StamWhipCultist
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    This might be interesting.

    If they split them in 2 separate queues, both should give XP boosts separately.
    This would help newer players catch up faster.
    #stamwhip
  • redspecter23
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    If I can turn off DLC dungeons by cancelling my sub, there should also be a way to do it without cancelling my sub. As long as there is an advantage to not subbing vs subbing then ZOS is encouraging at least some number of players to NOT sub, which should never be encouraged. A sub should be all benefit with no downside and this has been one glaring exception for quite some time, only becoming more of a hindrance as more DLC dungeons are added.
  • idk
    idk
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    If I can turn off DLC dungeons by cancelling my sub, there should also be a way to do it without cancelling my sub. As long as there is an advantage to not subbing vs subbing then ZOS is encouraging at least some number of players to NOT sub, which should never be encouraged. A sub should be all benefit with no downside and this has been one glaring exception for quite some time, only becoming more of a hindrance as more DLC dungeons are added.

    Yes, it should be if we include the DLC dungeons we get the full reward for doing a random daily dungeon. If we deselect the DLC dungeons we get the blue quality reward.

    It is a fair tradeoff and grants the better rewards for including a chance at a greater challenge.

    Of course Zos could create a gold quality reward for the random for including the DLC dungeons.
    Really, idk
  • redspecter23
    redspecter23
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    idk wrote: »
    If I can turn off DLC dungeons by cancelling my sub, there should also be a way to do it without cancelling my sub. As long as there is an advantage to not subbing vs subbing then ZOS is encouraging at least some number of players to NOT sub, which should never be encouraged. A sub should be all benefit with no downside and this has been one glaring exception for quite some time, only becoming more of a hindrance as more DLC dungeons are added.

    Yes, it should be if we include the DLC dungeons we get the full reward for doing a random daily dungeon. If we deselect the DLC dungeons we get the blue quality reward.

    It is a fair tradeoff and grants the better rewards for including a chance at a greater challenge.

    Of course Zos could create a gold quality reward for the random for including the DLC dungeons.

    Well, if the reward is too much higher for the DLC dungeons compared to non DLC, you still have an issue with people queueing that are not prepared for that content. For some reason, a great many players think that their desire for any particular reward is proportional to their ability to do that content.

    "I really, really need that monster helm so that means I will just go bang my head against the wall in that vet dungeon for 18 hours or until my group kicks me... then I'll just queue again until it works!"

    As of right now, there is very little reason at all to even do a random vet compared to a random normal and it's probably for the best. If vet DLC suddenly gave the purple reward (as well as the once per day massive xp) then you would still see those queues filled with players who have no business there, just because they want the reward, not realizing that it's horrible xp/minute if you aren't capable of completing it.
    Edited by redspecter23 on September 30, 2018 8:34PM
  • karekiz
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    Heh I still go with DPS/tank/heal checks to que for DLC vet content.

    Earlier this morning qued into vet bloodroot:

    DPS <Forgot>: 2hs/? <Never saw him weapon swap> - Rotation - LA LA LA Upper cut LA LA Upper cut LA LA LA LA LA upper cut.
    DPS Sorc: Ice staff/? <Think I saw lightning but that could be healer> - Rotation - Elements - Conduit -- LA LA LA LA Rinse and repeat. All with ice staff.

    Bailed on first boss.

    Yesterday - 1h/sheild dps with 2 hander "for sustain".
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