SUGGESTION TO DEVS: split off VET DLC dungeons in Random Group finder

profundidob16_ESO

SUGGESTION TO DEVS: split off VET DLC dungeons in Random Group finder


My suggestion to the DEVS: create a new third category for the Random group finder next to "Random Normal" and "Random Veteran" called "Random Veteran DLC" and move the veteran versions of the DLC dungeons to this new category so that people can queue exclusively for those or for any-but-those. Assign an extra but trivial reward to this category that basically only benefits the more endgame oriented player (e.g even more useless bonus xp and some extra transfusion shards for gear collectors)

(Optional) Set a minimum cp value requirement (e.g 300?) to be able to join "Veteran DLC"

Note: the normal DLC dungeons would still be under the "normal random" category since all mechanics are trivialized or skippable there anyway


Reasoning and logic behind this suggestion:

-DLC vet difficulty is higher and longer than non-DLC. The extra but trivial reward would make up for getting one of those dungeons instead of a "fast one" without giving extra gear which would attract. The idea is that (weaker) players that want an easy run would see no absolute benefit in running the riskier (to complete) and longer DLC vet dungeons while the experienced players might actually be able to find a skilled group when joining those. Might finally make the vet DLC more popular again

-This split off is already in effect when it comes down to pledges. This would just be a logical extension of it

-The minimum cp of let's say 300 is fast enough reachable through the exponentional XP curve for the fresh that want it and an incentive for new players that just dinged 50 to work towards a nex tier. And let's be honest, all veteran DLC content is doable with 300cp, the rest is more luxury than anything else

-The minimum cp of let's say 300 guarantees that players joining a random VET DLC group at least really possess some real experience in running veteran level dungeons and have the required points to set the important champion points (dmge mitigation, buff core role of dps/healing/tanking...)

-Way too many pugs fail to complete vet DLC because weaker players queuing for random get it by accident and prevent the entire group from completing it, causing a total fail at some point before finishing it. ZOS is well aware of the failure rate numbers.

-Many people leave instantly upon arriving in a vet DLC dungeon because they are gambling (hoping) not to get a vet DLC dungeon.

-Some people have canceled their ESO plus in order to be able to queue for "random VET but not DLC". This solution would give them that button regardless of being eso plus or not.

-Yes the "Random VET DLC" queuing would indeed be a bit longer for vet DLC but after a few weeks people will get used to it and start queuing for the difficulty tier they like most, just like they do now with normal vs vet. Getting a DLC dungeon now, leaving group and being locked out for 15min takes alot longer so it would definately be an improvement. Also saves the group from having to cycle through too many new players and then finally break up because it's pointless.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_Chris
@ZOS_CoriJ
@ZOS_KatP
@ZOS_MattL
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_Holden

profundidob16_ESO

common guys, vote and discuss, don't be shy ! Maybe we have a chance to actually reach developers and help make the random group finder a great and reliable tool for dungeon crawling ?

SquareSausage

Id say no as it wont happen, as they will be the deadest of all dungeons and ZoS wants people to run all content.

Why run random vet anyway? Surely random normal is the obz choice for a randeo dungeo?

Normal gives same XP bonus, and a Geode, and is like so much easier to complete, cant see any reason other than 'I just wanna do random Vet' for choosing it.

VaranisArano

Wouldn't it be easier to persuade ZOS to bump up the CP requirement for Vet DLCs to CP 300? Sure, its longer that people have to wait to play content they paid for, but it'd address all the "Those players don't have enough CP for it" whining.

Once you bump up the requirement to CP 300, you've removed most of the capability issues from the equation and now we're down to the people who don't want to risk a harder, longer dungeon in their Random Veteran options.


Ultimately I'm fine with your suggestion that choosing to have ALL the dungeons in your Random Dungeon queue grants you a greater reward than excluding some of them. My biggest problem with these suggestions has always been people wanting the full rewards without taking the full risk and your suggestion addresses that nicely.

Glockcoma725

I could get behind this.

OutLaw_Nynx

Just give us the option to like check it off. I don’t fancy long dungeons with PUGs. I like group finder when it works but, i hate dlc dungeons..

Anotherone773

Honestly id rather see dungeons split to ways:

1) casual/ inexperienced = for all those that dont mind slower placed dungeons, want to do quests, care about being super efficient/carrying people, etc.

2) Blitz/experienced = for those that have done the dungeon multiple times, have done the quests, want to get through the content quickly. To unlock blitz you would have to kill the final boss in that dungeon on casual X amount of times.

Then by levels:


A)Level adjusted = Min level to CP 149 in one group and CP 150 and above for second group for normal dungeons, Below CP CP 300 for one group, CP 300 and above for second group.

B ) Normal = as is now/dont care.

So you would select casual or blitz and then select level adjusted or normal in the queue.

profundidob16_ESO

SquareSausage wrote: »

Id say no as it wont happen, as they will be the deadest of all dungeons and ZoS wants people to run all content.

Why run random vet anyway? Surely random normal is the obz choice for a randeo dungeo?

Normal gives same XP bonus, and a Geode, and is like so much easier to complete, cant see any reason other than 'I just wanna do random Vet' for choosing it.

There are lots of reasons to run vet:

-only way currently to get purple jewelry from a set that drops there
-Achievement runs
-pledges and HM mode
-Skins, motif, ...


I for one would love to run DLC alot more if the random group finder would filter out the people that don't really want to be there (yet) simply because it would be alot more fun running it.

For instance I tank vet non-dlc dungeons with the random group finder (pure pugs) daily because of the randomness factor and find the extra challenge it brings real fun. Some of those group members (only light attacks, zero dps...) make the very same dungeon that I normally find so ridiculously easy, suddenly so challenging for me because instead of thrash packs dying in 6-10 seconds (when I run with guildies or good random players) and me as tank being useless, now I have to maintain agro and my resources for over 2 minutes on that same thrash pack, almost as if it were a trial. Eventually when their light attacks kill the mobs I can really say that without my tanking role it would have been wipe after wipe on that thrash pack. Same goes when I do it on my healer

redspecter23

While I may not agree that this is the perfect solution it solves a lot of issues. There should NEVER be any incentive to drop your sub and currently you have easier random dungeon access by doing so. That should be reason enough to implement some sort of solution. Your monthly sub should be 100% positive and having this negative aspect could make even a few players reconsider giving money to ZOS.

profundidob16_ESO

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Honestly id rather see dungeons split to ways:

1) casual/ inexperienced = for all those that dont mind slower placed dungeons, want to do quests, care about being super efficient/carrying people, etc.

2) Blitz/experienced = for those that have done the dungeon multiple times, have done the quests, want to get through the content quickly. To unlock blitz you would have to kill the final boss in that dungeon on casual X amount of times.

Then by levels:


A)Level adjusted = Min level to CP 149 in one group and CP 150 and above for second group for normal dungeons, Below CP CP 300 for one group, CP 300 and above for second group.

B ) Normal = as is now/dont care.

So you would select casual or blitz and then select level adjusted or normal in the queue.

Ideally yes I would also love if there were far more filter options in the group finder like these you just suggested here so that we could each join the more specialized scenario that we as an individual desire most but that's not realistic is it ?

I'm sure you can see the problem with that: not enough people. It would make queue times so much longer because each of those filters futher split the crowd per scenario in 2 to the power of 2. So 3 filter options down the road for a dps that would normally queue for 30 minutes would mean he has to now queue 8 times that long (4hours)

That's why in my suggestion I merely make a seperation between already existing scenario's rather than making additional ones because it would cause dps to have to wait even longer in queue

Anotherone773

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Honestly id rather see dungeons split to ways:

1) casual/ inexperienced = for all those that dont mind slower placed dungeons, want to do quests, care about being super efficient/carrying people, etc.

2) Blitz/experienced = for those that have done the dungeon multiple times, have done the quests, want to get through the content quickly. To unlock blitz you would have to kill the final boss in that dungeon on casual X amount of times.

Then by levels:


A)Level adjusted = Min level to CP 149 in one group and CP 150 and above for second group for normal dungeons, Below CP CP 300 for one group, CP 300 and above for second group.

B ) Normal = as is now/dont care.

So you would select casual or blitz and then select level adjusted or normal in the queue.

Ideally yes I would also love if there were far more filter options in the group finder like these you just suggested here so that we could each join the more specialized scenario that we as an individual desire most but that's not realistic is it ?

I'm sure you can see the problem with that: not enough people. It would make queue times so much longer because each of those filters futher split the crowd per scenario in 2 to the power of 2. So 3 filter options down the road for a dps that would normally queue for 30 minutes would mean he has to now queue 8 times that long (4hours)

That's why in my suggestion I merely make a seperation between already existing scenario's rather than making additional ones because it would cause dps to have to wait even longer in queue

But if you have more desirable separation it would up the interest in queuing, thus that alone would increase the amount of people that would queue.

On top of changing the queue structure i would:

1) Increase the purple rewards for random to 3 a day but lower the xp gain per reward by 20%
2) Healers and tanks would get a secondary reward up to 5 times a day. This reward would be like 2000 gold, blue jewelry ( with a slight change of purple jewelry), and some other token item.
3) You would get a "wayshrine pass" for every 5 minutes you spend in queue. The pass is not bound and waives the fee to porting to a wayshrine once. You have to complete the activity to the get the passes. So if you queue for 32 minutes you get 6 passes if you complete the dungeon. A little compensation for your time waiting.

profundidob16_ESO

nr 1. you mention: would that apply to all 3 random categories or only to the new "random VET DLC" one ?

greylox

Agreed, good idea. Normals far too easy vet non dlc just right, dlc vet is just painful.

profundidob16_ESO

Well after joining roughly 20 random runs from start through the new dungeons on vet of which most groups disband at second boss for Fang lair or first boss in storm caller peak and 3 out of those 20 random runs resulted in completing the dungeon I guess the point is confirmed even more

Kanar

As more dlc gets released, the pool of tough vs easy vet dungeons is moving toward tough. Many random dungeon runners don't want dlc dungeons. Some of us who run vet dlc dungeons do need to use group finder to fill in a spot and it sucks getting people dropping when they see the dungeon, or just generally not being ready for dlc dungeons.

So yeah I agree this change needs to be made.

ewhite106b16_ESO

Completely agreed, the veteran dlc dungeons in addition to having tougher monsters also have alot of one-shot or odd mechanics that are very difficult to do with a pug group. In other veteran dungeons, the mechanics are generally much less complicated and it's way easier for 1-2 high cp/experienced players to carry less experienced ones. As things are right now, the daily rewards from veteran dungeon is tempting but not worth it when you end up in a vet dlc dungeon.

monktoasty

Other...make solo option. Scales to your level but higher speeds you are challenged but not impossible to finish.

idk

Zos could offer higher rewards or same rewards and reduce the normal random daily reward.

I have suggested before in another similar thread that there should be a check box to include DLC dungeons for the random selection.

The reward for completing the random daily with this selected would be the same as it is now but if it is not selected it would be blue quality or essentially like someone is doing it for the second time.

It can really be that simple and provide appropriate rewards as a result. It certainly should not be the same reward if the DLC dungeons were not part of the dice roll.

exiars10

Fully support separation.

-Some people have canceled their ESO plus in order to be able to queue for "random VET but not DLC". This solution would give them that button regardless of being eso plus or not.

I tried ESO Plus for one month and that thing drove me crazy as the new player. I would constantly get into DLC dungeons and especially I was getting into WGT days after days (Random Premium Daily) and I hate that dungeon the most!

What happened next?

-Many people leave instantly upon arriving in a vet DLC dungeon because they are gambling (hoping) not to get a vet DLC dungeon.

No ESO Plus so no more worring about it.

dutchthunder

I do like the idea, also from a time perspective.

The DLC dungeons easily take 45 to 90 minutes. I don't want to spend that time dying over and over again as a 200 CP char.

Another thing is I get kicked lots of times too, so I queue 10 minutes to get an insta kick.. Not really nice..

Wizball1987

43 votes hmm

Stinkyremy

They just stopped us from queuing from most normals until we are 45, why not make vet 1s 160 min, vet 2s 300 min and vet DLC 400 min. no need to split the groups, just make a minimum actibity finder level like they did with normals
iirc It only takes a day to get from 50-to vet cp110, a week of everyday questing and you are 160.
At that time, finding gear is more important than queueing for dungeons, so why the heck are these people in white gold tower.

VaranisArano

Stinkyremy wrote: »

They just stopped us from queuing from most normals until we are 45, why not make vet 1s 160 min, vet 2s 300 min and vet DLC 400 min. no need to split the groups, just make a minimum actibity finder level like they did with normals
iirc It only takes a day to get from 50-to vet cp110, a week of everyday questing and you are 160.
At that time, finding gear is more important than queueing for dungeons, so why the heck are these people in white gold tower.

Because they need Spell Power Cure for their healer?

idk

It really seems as though some thing Zos would keep the rewards the same and everything would be great, after all it is the rewards that get us into a random dungeon.

Reality check, it would NEVER be that way. Zos would make the rewards for the DLC random so much sweeter than the random of base game dungeons. Easiest way to handle that is make DLC random the purple quality and non-DLC blue quality as it is now if one had already done a random.

It will not be the same. That is practically a certainty.

profundidob16_ESO

Stinkyremy wrote: »

They just stopped us from queuing from most normals until we are 45, why not make vet 1s 160 min, vet 2s 300 min and vet DLC 400 min. no need to split the groups, just make a minimum actibity finder level like they did with normals
iirc It only takes a day to get from 50-to vet cp110, a week of everyday questing and you are 160.
At that time, finding gear is more important than queueing for dungeons, so why the heck are these people in white gold tower.

Splitting up all vet dungeons like you suggested in 3 levels would cause the queues for dps to become hours and hours because cp 1-160 would only have access to a limited portion of the dungeons while the others would never find a tank/healer in time. Eventually as most level past cp160 they in turn become the extinct category that never finds people...think about it

Furthermore I see more than ever with the new dungeons on a daily basis cp730 people completely wiping the group over and over in the new dungeons because they don't know/do the mechanics, causing 1-shots on themselves and their teammembers. This proves that cp means little in the end equation, especially now with the front loading system the devs introduced. In fact only 2 days ago I guided a yet another random pug through vet Fang Lair where 1 player was cp300ish. He was willing to learn and at our request he went to respec skills at second boss in order to get at least a ranged interrupt to be able to progress for the senche. After that we completed the whole dungeon which proves again and again that in this game (thank god!) skill >> cp so it would be counterproductive to have too many hard cp caps disabling good players from progressing.

The mechanics of the newest dungeons are clearly intended (by the devs) to go back to the first generation of mmorpg's where at least some skill, gear, build and knowledge mechanics are required or it's simply impossible to complete the content. This by itself is very good and welcome change imho because it finally caters the more experienced players who still haven't left the game but are bored as hell and hungry for a challenge as long as you don't force the unexperienced players into that content through the random finder system.

In other words the unexperienced players who are not ready for this level of play need an option to queue vet random but stay cleer of this level of difficulty while doing so and the experienced players need the option to queue for exactly that level of play knowing that the group finder will hook them up in there with people of the same skill/experience level so all parties have an enjoyable experience and alot of the kicking/dropping can be avoided alltogether.

Giraffon

I like the idea of getting extra rewards if you queue up for a random Vet DLC dungeon. I think a purple drop from an overland set for wherever the dungeon is located would be something to consider as an added bonus. Motifs are always a great incentive as well.

profundidob16_ESO

Giraffon wrote: »

I like the idea of getting extra rewards if you queue up for a random Vet DLC dungeon. I think a purple drop from an overland set for wherever the dungeon is located would be something to consider as an added bonus. Motifs are always a great incentive as well.

Gotta be real careful though with the rewards. As soon as the reward for a more difficult queuing category gives something that benefits an unexperienced player, a large percentage of those will queue for it anyway. Especially when they are complete unaware of what actual horror awaits them (and the group...) in there which will eventually lead to frustration, alot of wasted time for themselves and eventually NO reward at all. Not exactly a fun grouping experience

So I guess as a developer, you would want to ask yourself: what extra reward could I assign to this higher difficulty "random vet DLC" category that will make unexperienced players look at and say: "*** it, it's not worth it....I'm going non-DLC random" while an experienced player reading the same might think "pff to me DLC or non-DLC are all easy, might as well go random vet DLC. The extra reward is irrelevant to me but I'll do it to at least have some challenge and end up with more experienced players hopefully..."

So I'm guess either no difference in reward at all or an extra reward in the form of some extra transmutation stones or a motif or tokens towards a dye unlock etc. Purely cosmetical or practical stuff with no real competitive advantage such as XP.

When the system is in place for 1 month or longer, and people have gotten used to selecting their matching category, the reward for should be already in the sole fact of getting a better auto grouping experience with less kicks/drops and more people of the same level or closer to it

REiiGN15

I do believe they need to split and ppl find groups the best way(by asking ppl, lfg sites) It's torture to everyone on heavy mechanic based dungeons and big time suck. MAYBE you might pug into a competent group but very rarely.

profundidob16_ESO

Wizball1987 wrote: »

43 votes hmm

73 so far. Common devs, would be nice if you would acknowledge this at least

akl77

Yes vet dlc dungeons aren’t meant to be pugged, yes they are possible pugging but very rare that make it through, usually involves a lot of kicking the bad players in hoping of getting a decent player in queue.

eso_nya

Still waiting on a DLC Dungeon that i finish and say "That was so cool, i wanna do it again".

Most of the time is more like "Oh no, im slowed again, im gonna lay down here next to the statue and die. Pls dont rezz me." or "Lets get done with the achievs so we never have to go there again".

Making them fun and rewarding would be preferable, but until than, yeah plox let me opt out w/o cancelling sub.