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Can something be done about Phoenix & Yokeda being used for No Death Achievements
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Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Who cares? I mean the sets are used for what they were designed for
Just let people play what they want13 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP, what if instead of those sets, they were using 5 pieces of Julianos or Acuity in Heavy Armor to get more health/resistances? Would that be ok? Why?
Every set choice in the game is a trade-off. Those set bonuses are nice for survivability, if you only make a mistake every 10 minutes, but you are trading something off for that bonus.The Moot Councillor9 -
edges_endgame✭✭✭✭It is in the game, suck it up.
If people want to use it for those achievements, let them. I dunno how that is hurting you.
You had a harder time getting the achievement? So what?
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Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I too hate it when people use sets I don't want to use, for either survivability or DPS. Grrrr.
They should all be forced to use Trainee sets.16 -
Ragged_Claw✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well you gear for the content you are doing, so if you have trials sets to help you in trials then you are going to use them, there's nothing wrong with that. If I am doing VMA or PvP I'm going to choose different sets and weights etc. You could apply this logic to anything and say that someone had an easier time than you getting 'Flawless Conqueror' because they were wearing X set so their achievement is diminished. The achievement is still going to be hard to get, you will still need to have a skilled group who know the mechanics and have done the content before. And as other people have said, you are going to have to drop valuable sets to wear these. These sets wouldn't help me, for example, as I die on average once a minute in trials, so skill is still going to be a large factor.PC EU & NA3 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭this thread is definitely going to be closed soon, the very first post is bloody bait to incite an argument.
"I don't like people uses sets as intended to make a challenge easier because i don't/didn't use it on my own."
this is what you are saying and that is the pettiest, whiniest thing I have ever seen. You absolutely need to get over this idea that you get to dictate how players should run a challenge.15 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) When you die, you instead become immune to all negative effects and healing for 3 seconds. When the effect ends, you heal for 17200 Health and explode for 8600 Flame Damage to all enemies within 8 meters. This effect can occur once every 10 minutes.(2 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(3) Gain Minor Aegis at all times, reducing your damage taken from Dungeon and Trial Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(5 items) When you die, you instead turn into a statue for 3 seconds and gain 200 Ultimate. While a statue you are immune to all negative effects but can still be healed. This effect can occur once every 10 minutes.
(5 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
Just because a set is in the game doesn't mean it should be used,
I'm sorry, but this is the silliest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Of course it should be used. It's being used in a clever fashion, not some cheat or exploit. It comes down to "People are using this set, and I don't like it."
Others using this doesn't devalue anything you or your group has done. Doesn't take away your achievement.
If you want to look at it from an elitist point of view, they needed a crutch your group didn't. But saying sets in game shouldn't be used, or effects aren't intended when they are clearly written in the set description.....c'mon now. That's a tad too elitest to be taken seriously.Edited by Kel on September 3, 2018 12:35PM11 -
Draxinusom_✭✭OP, I can see why this is an issue to you, however I feel the need to point out that the issue at the core is basically defining where the limit lies when one thing is viewed as "cheesed" vs non-"cheesed". The problem here is that every person has a different opinion and thus, setting the limit somewhere by forum users is just something completely arbitrary. The only non-arbitrary limit is precisely what is in the game available to everyone.
Consider this: If I were to go even further in restricting what counts as "making an achievement too easy" I could just state that unless you do it with your group without any addons you've been cheesing it and violating the spirit of an exclusive hard achievement! Now prove me wrong, because I can now use all arguments against your opinion in this thread. Essentially, it's in the game, made available by the developers and you can use it too. And undoubtly, addons make a tremendous difference in a trial. I'd even go as far as to say that the difference is way bigger than those sets ever can be.
So no, I cannot agree with OP's assessment. Use the sets or don't. If you use them, they come at an opportunity cost of not running other sets. And if you use the set and don't "die" once, you've wasted the usage. If you're not good enough and die twice in too short a time, you've failed the achievement. Those sets still wont allow each and everyone getting the achievement. Making certain things in a very narrow and specific case easier, maybe. Trivializing content to get the achievement - that it doesn't do at all.
(Just for the record: The addons example was just that, an example. I'm not against addon use. In fact I write them myself, although only a very simple/dumb one is available for the public)11 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People take these achievements way to seriously, i mean its a virtual achievement.. in a game.
C'mon people please get priorities straight..8 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Because it literally says in the achievement "without suffering a group member death" and both sets read themselves "when you die you instead [...]"
Wouldn't you find it a little unfair groups are doing it much easier than it was meant to be compared to those who are putting in the effort for it?Why does it matter so much to you if someone gets a no death achievement for something by using these sets? Have they denied you anything in doing so? One assumes that if you wanted to you could get and use these sets yourself for a no death run, so it doesn't appear that anything unfair is going on, per se.
Goes for anything in life really, why would it be fine for things to be much easier than what it's supposed to be?
I just don't understand why such a set exists let alone works for this sort of thing
How do you know it was meant to be more difficult? There is no indication that is the case. The sets are in the game, you could use them yourself - it's not something that is restricted to just a few people - Yokeda drops from normal crag trials, and Phoenix set is purchasable with Tel Var - it's not like some hidden cheat.
It's not rocket science to figure out it was overlooked and making things easier than what it was meant to be.
Yes, "when you die, instead of dying..." So you haven't died, because you did something else.
And, no, you didn't call it cheating, I did. Though, again, this isn't some out of bounds exploit, it's simply using a sub-par set as intended. If it really is unintended, it'll get patched out, but I kinda suspect this specific mechanic was semi-intentional. I mean, these sets have been in the game for three years at this point. (Four with the Yokudan sets.)Edited by starkerealm on September 3, 2018 4:04PM1 -
Fischblut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wouldn't you find it a little unfair groups are doing it much easier than it was meant to be compared to those who are putting in the effort for it?
I would never find use of valid sets "unfair"
What was really unfair, for example - all the skins which were earned when every run of Reach dungeons was counted as "no death" 
I doubt that when it was fixed, they reset this achievement to those who "earned" it like this 
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Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This game consists of a very casual player base, it would be in their best interests to be against this and you will see that reflected in this thread. The majority will be against your suggestion as with these sets those no death achievements are a bit more within their reach.Edited by Aliyavana on September 3, 2018 4:49PM2 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭seems like a reasonable strategy against one shot mechanics if your looking for those achievements.Old Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard3 -
iiYuki✭✭✭✭✭Does it really matter? If it was an exploit sure but these are legitimate sets that stop you from dying, besides its every 10 minutes so its hardly something someone is constantly using as a crutch. Not to mention that 1 is clearly a tank set the other a magicka only set and I wouldn't use that over a decent DPS set."Play how you want... unless its not how we intended you to play in which case we'll nerf it".
- ZO$
- The ZO$ Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmUJWP_ebsQ3 -
Darkdex✭✭✭Using in-game sets and strategies without exploits to overcomer difficulties in the game = Perfectly fine.
Exploiting things out = No bueno.
There is NO point in complaining about that, if it's in game, you can use it. If some poeple don't like to use those strats, good for them, but they can't complain as if they were "handicapping" themselves.
Not following a Meta-build or Meta-strats is not bad, is clever and innovative. That's how meta was created in the first place, and that's why meta changes every patch: People find ways to overcome difficulties and when they get the best results, a new meta rises.
I mean, even Alcast used those sets for no death. It's a perfectly viable and fair strategy.
You want to challenge yourself by doing it without making any mistakes? Fair enough and I applaud you. But asking for changes in-game to nerf or to make other strategies non-existent just because some people don't want other people to get for other means what they have gotten in the hard way (by their own choice) is just absurd.5 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) When you die, you instead become immune to all negative effects and healing for 3 seconds. When the effect ends, you heal for 17200 Health and explode for 8600 Flame Damage to all enemies within 8 meters. This effect can occur once every 10 minutes.(2 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(3) Gain Minor Aegis at all times, reducing your damage taken from Dungeon and Trial Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(5 items) When you die, you instead turn into a statue for 3 seconds and gain 200 Ultimate. While a statue you are immune to all negative effects but can still be healed. This effect can occur once every 10 minutes.
(5 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
This is mainly a thread at those groups who have been using these sets for months in Asylum & Cloudrest for somewhat easier hardmode kills making it easier than intended.
This has been going on for awhile now and these sets have been used for quite some time to be used for getting achievements that are intended to be the hardest in the game by defeating the purpose of "no death". Devaluing achievements with these sets shouldn't be a thing, these sets should be a little reworked and maybe change the threshold so it's a proc at 10% health instead of 0% health so it's not used as a total crutch. I personally do not mind the set, it's a decent concept but it should be changed a little bit so it doesn't flat out screw with intended hardest achievements to get, it makes unrewarding content even more unrewarding.
I hope you guys at ZOS look into this so that the content is not easier just because of a set like this allowing people to die during a no death, depending whatever the content is, either a trial or a dungeon.
Just because a set is in the game doesn't mean it should be used, and this is clearly overlooked and the proc could be changed to where it would make it a tad bit unappealing and not as strong for the PvE content.
@ZOS_Finn @ZOS_GinaBruno
seriously two of the probly worst tanking sets in pve but amazing in pvp and you want them nerfed...........that makes sense their useless anyhow. if anything rework them to where their actually useful in both.2 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When you die, you instead become...
Implies that you don't die. Therefore, no death.8 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭So...according to your logic anyone, .on a speed run using ...swift rings...any skill/passive that gives you major/minor expedition, any armor set that gives you more speed, using an orc, or even sprinting, would diminish your achievement?
And also how do you actually know that the devs intended these sets NOT to be used in this way...you seem to have some kind of inside info...maybe you can tell us when they will be buffing magdens...thanks in advance...6 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nah this was intended. One is even a set from trials. It meant to be used in trials.
Edit: and I agree that addons are more blatantly cheesy than these sets. “Dodge now” addon is way more cheesy.Edited by max_only on September 3, 2018 7:55PM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
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""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom4 -
Artemiisia✭✭✭✭✭
✭I say, its more a clever idea someone had using those sets in a different way, kudos to them 4 -
Leave the sets alone. Tired of working to unlock a skill, or grinding for items to be nerfed. That is why I play a fraction of what I use to.0
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Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So...according to your logic anyone, .on a speed run using ...swift rings...any skill/passive that gives you major/minor expedition, any armor set that gives you more speed, using an orc, or even sprinting, would diminish your achievement?
And also how do you actually know that the devs intended these sets NOT to be used in this way...you seem to have some kind of inside info...maybe you can tell us when they will be buffing magdens...thanks in advance...
Your logic is stretching here0 -
Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is incredibly petty, Nifty and Aliya. If the set is in the game, it's a valid tool for the job.
Granted, I'd never considered using them for running no-deaths, but as I sit here watching the wannabes come out of the woodwork defending the OP, I can't help but be reminded about how silly this entire premise truly is.
I've had interactions with the OP from a few years ago, and this really doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Edited by Judas Helviaryn on September 3, 2018 8:44PM11 -
firedrgn✭✭✭✭✭For months? These sets have been used for this since they came out. I thought it was normal.1
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Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess this is now the PvE endgame version of the " Hide vamp skin" threads.
Edited by Cadbury on September 3, 2018 8:50PM"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."1
This discussion has been closed.