Can something be done about Phoenix & Yokeda being used for No Death Achievements

Qbiken

Seeing someone feeling this much prestige over an achievement in a game might be one of the most cringy thing I´ve seen.....

Thought this was bait from the start, but after hearing about the toxic responses towards "Stack and Burn" after their vCR+3 run (which seems to be the cause of this thread) it´s obvious that some people take this game way too serious...

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

sadly not :V and yes I take very seriously my achivs especialy the immortal ones (speed/hm/no death) but I just found out people can cheat their way through with those sets...well its mostly like havingx2 chances to screw up unfair? yes...punishable? only if ur into BDMS like meow >:3 but more than that its just self morality...so nothing can be done...unless zo$ decides to make those sets disabled in pve which will cause a lot of rage even if mostly 10% ppl use them if not less...or they can remove/rework them and have another 395893859375893 complain threads from pvp side...

Shad0wfire99

"Just because a set is in the game, doesn't mean it should be used." Wat?

clv

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Oh look, does this mean that phoenix isn't meant to be used in trials? What a surprise, who would have guessed

Go read the 3 piece bonus on Eternal Yokeda, then try to explain to us all that it is not intended to be used in trials.

Edit: Here is the set for anyone who doesn't know.


Also the 5-piece reads that you turn into a statue instead of dying, not after dying.

You're strawmanning. Run of the mill trials are not equivalent to the discussed achievements, you functionally died to crutch out deathless runs of already difficult trials. ZoS dev himself said he wants Yokeda to not save vitality- why would it? Your health dropped to zero. The whole point of the achievement titles is to showcase efficacy enough to survive and still get the speedrun. Why defend Yokeda's current use when it devalues the efforts of legitimate runs? How about so adamantly defending such a mechanic you all put that same effort into getting better? Or is that elitist of me to say?

For those saying that running the set "comes at a cost", Wolfhunter has inflated DPS at its highest. Running it as a secondary 5-piece would bring you to the damage of last patch in full damage BiS. Go ahead and so vehemently argue that Yokeda doesn't make a run illegitimate.

SirDopey

I really don't see the difference between using those sets to prevent death and perfected versions of trial damage sets when you're all so reliant on them to get your speedrun dps.

This has to be one of the most Toxic whinges in a very long time.....

Nifty2g

Qbiken wrote: »

Seeing someone feeling this much prestige over an achievement in a game might be one of the most cringy thing I´ve seen.....

Thought this was bait from the start, but after hearing about the toxic responses towards "Stack and Burn" after their vCR+3 run (which seems to be the cause of this thread) it´s obvious that some people take this game way too serious...

@Qbiken This was actually created before that, at least I think. But this is more so with all those groups using it in Asylum, it's not a specific group, I actually just don't think the set should work in trials to begin with, it's more of an overlook on ZOS. And I mean just check out the reply from the developer they're not even happy it works.

But you're a little wrong I don't actually feel much prestige over an achievement, I just don't see why it'd work in content which was designed and intended to be for players who want to set out to go for them and what not and I am sure I am going to get called elitist for this comment but I personally do not understand why a group of people who go to do it the right way should have their achievements devalued for a group of others that get it by doing it an easier way. And since we have an actual comment from the developer that they do not like it working like that, it's not petty of me to say or whatever you think. But you can call me elitist if you want to. I'm not saying it's cheating, I'm not asking people to have their titles removed. I'm simply saying I hope they remove something like this soon so players can work on getting better if they set their eyes on an achievement like that as they are clearly stated you need to not die, not die but instead you blah blah blah.

SirDopey

Nifty2g wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Wouldn't you find it a little unfair groups are doing it much easier than it was meant to be compared to those who are putting in the effort for it?
Goes for anything in life really, why would it be fine for things to be much easier than what it's supposed to be?

I just don't understand why such a set exists let alone works for this sort of thing

It's not "unfair" if someone has creatively and intelligently managed to use a set

Dying non stop and finding a way how to still die non stop and still get an achievement isn't really creative or intelligent though lol, if people can do it the intended way, why can't players just get better and also learn to do it?

You can hardly call hitting 0 health once in 10 minutes dying non stop. PLUS, given the DPS loss of using those sets all you elitists should be able to out deep them and keep top scores if the entire team is wearing it.

clv

SirDopey wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Wouldn't you find it a little unfair groups are doing it much easier than it was meant to be compared to those who are putting in the effort for it?
Goes for anything in life really, why would it be fine for things to be much easier than what it's supposed to be?

I just don't understand why such a set exists let alone works for this sort of thing

It's not "unfair" if someone has creatively and intelligently managed to use a set

Dying non stop and finding a way how to still die non stop and still get an achievement isn't really creative or intelligent though lol, if people can do it the intended way, why can't players just get better and also learn to do it?

You can hardly call hitting 0 health once in 10 minutes dying non stop. PLUS, given the DPS loss of using those sets all you elitists should be able to out deep them and keep top scores if the entire team is wearing it.

You can't call it dying non stop, but you can call it "dying in a deathless run" though. I like how most posters wilfully ignored the screenshot of Finn saying a change was coming to how the set interacted with vitality. Don't be ignorant, and don't attack ad hominem with "b-but you're a toxic whinging elitist". It doesn't further your point.

Qbiken

delete

Carbonised

clv wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Wouldn't you find it a little unfair groups are doing it much easier than it was meant to be compared to those who are putting in the effort for it?
Goes for anything in life really, why would it be fine for things to be much easier than what it's supposed to be?

I just don't understand why such a set exists let alone works for this sort of thing

It's not "unfair" if someone has creatively and intelligently managed to use a set

Dying non stop and finding a way how to still die non stop and still get an achievement isn't really creative or intelligent though lol, if people can do it the intended way, why can't players just get better and also learn to do it?

You can hardly call hitting 0 health once in 10 minutes dying non stop. PLUS, given the DPS loss of using those sets all you elitists should be able to out deep them and keep top scores if the entire team is wearing it.

I like how most posters wilfully ignored the screenshot of Finn saying a change was coming to how the set interacted with vitality.

If ZOS wants to change how these sets work, then that's their prerogative. I believe the mass majority of people reacting in this thread have agreed that the complaint is extremely petty, and pretty much boils down to someone being extremely lemony bitter over someone else getting their pointless achievements.

But then again, it wouldn't be the first time ZOS changes something against the wishes of the mass majority of players, would it now.

sevomd69

[/quote]

I like how most posters wilfully ignored the screenshot of Finn saying a change was coming to how the set interacted with vitality.[/quote]

If ZOS wants to change how these sets work, then that's their prerogative. I believe the mass majority of people reacting in this thread have agreed that the complaint is extremely petty, and pretty much boils down to someone being extremely lemony bitter over someone else getting their pointless achievements.

But then again, it wouldn't be the first time ZOS changes something against the wishes of the mass majority of players, would it now.[/quote]

It also wouldn't be the first time ZoS has said they were going to do something and...crickets...

modaretto

Nifty2g wrote: »

Oh look, does this mean that phoenix isn't meant to be used in trials? What a surprise, who would have guessed

Pretty sure you aren't supposed to run around throwing screenshots from council group on forums.

But my question is; did you actually test phoenix set? Because i already wrote earlier it does count as a death in a trial. So if now it doesnt it means it was already changed.

I'm just curious to know if it was confirmed before complaining to devs about it.

starkerealm

Qbiken wrote: »

Seeing someone feeling this much prestige over an achievement in a game might be one of the most cringy thing I´ve seen.....

Thought this was bait from the start, but after hearing about the toxic responses towards "Stack and Burn" after their vCR+3 run (which seems to be the cause of this thread) it´s obvious that some people take this game way too serious...

I once, no joke, saw a death threat over what to do with tanking the axes in vAA.

So... yeah, some people are a little unstable.

Nifty2g

SirDopey wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Wouldn't you find it a little unfair groups are doing it much easier than it was meant to be compared to those who are putting in the effort for it?
Goes for anything in life really, why would it be fine for things to be much easier than what it's supposed to be?

I just don't understand why such a set exists let alone works for this sort of thing

It's not "unfair" if someone has creatively and intelligently managed to use a set

Dying non stop and finding a way how to still die non stop and still get an achievement isn't really creative or intelligent though lol, if people can do it the intended way, why can't players just get better and also learn to do it?

You can hardly call hitting 0 health once in 10 minutes dying non stop. PLUS, given the DPS loss of using those sets all you elitists should be able to out deep them and keep top scores if the entire team is wearing it.

modaretto wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Oh look, does this mean that phoenix isn't meant to be used in trials? What a surprise, who would have guessed

Pretty sure you aren't supposed to run around throwing screenshots from council group on forums.

But my question is; did you actually test phoenix set? Because i already wrote earlier it does count as a death in a trial. So if now it doesnt it means it was already changed.

I'm just curious to know if it was confirmed before complaining to devs about it.

@modaretto Stuff gets shared all the time, it's not a private board, it's just a way for end game raiders to have contact to the dungeon developer for bug reports.

And yeah it's worked ever since it was released for PvE stuff

AbysmalGhul

Like I've said before...let's go and equip plain ol sticks and burlap sacks. There would literally no reason to complain about cheesing, competitive edge, etc etc etc or whatever whiny thought that crosses people's minds.

karma69

modaretto wrote: »

I haven't used phoenix for maybe over a year, last time i was in imperial city but i still tested it and unless it changed since then, phoenix does count as death in a trial.

@modaretto you should correct that, last time you used Phoenix was in vHoF first boss

Cadbury

code65536 wrote: »

I hope everyone realizes that this thread was started by someone who used Phoenix to get his Flawless Conqueror back in the day.

That this is a thread started by someone who was so desperate to be able to claim the first NA clear of vMoL that, when confronted with a console guild having beat him by a couple of hours, lied about their clear time.

And now this person is suddenly championing for the sanctity of achievements? The irony is so thick you could choke on it.

Ooooh yeah, I remember that thread. It was full of surprises, like PC people actually sticking up for console players.

Very...illuminating. In a way it was an early sign of how the ESO community was changing into what it is today.

Dragonnord

OK, so now that many players got the achievements the rest of players can't get them? That's so fair and just.

And no, ZOS will not remove the achievements from the ones that got them with these sets.

So, remove the achievements from all and start from scratch (won't happen) or leave things as they are now.
 

ccfeeling

Minor Aegis is garbage

Lord_Eomer

Nifty2g wrote: »

(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) When you die, you instead become immune to all negative effects and healing for 3 seconds. When the effect ends, you heal for 17200 Health and explode for 8600 Flame Damage to all enemies within 8 meters. This effect can occur once every 10 minutes.

(2 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(3) Gain Minor Aegis at all times, reducing your damage taken from Dungeon and Trial Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(5 items) When you die, you instead turn into a statue for 3 seconds and gain 200 Ultimate. While a statue you are immune to all negative effects but can still be healed. This effect can occur once every 10 minutes.
(5 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken

This is mainly a thread at those groups who have been using these sets for months in Asylum & Cloudrest for somewhat easier hardmode kills making it easier than intended.


This has been going on for awhile now and these sets have been used for quite some time to be used for getting achievements that are intended to be the hardest in the game by defeating the purpose of "no death". Devaluing achievements with these sets shouldn't be a thing, these sets should be a little reworked and maybe change the threshold so it's a proc at 10% health instead of 0% health so it's not used as a total crutch. I personally do not mind the set, it's a decent concept but it should be changed a little bit so it doesn't flat out screw with intended hardest achievements to get, it makes unrewarding content even more unrewarding.

I hope you guys at ZOS look into this so that the content is not easier just because of a set like this allowing people to die during a no death, depending whatever the content is, either a trial or a dungeon.

Just because a set is in the game doesn't mean it should be used, and this is clearly overlooked and the proc could be changed to where it would make it a tad bit unappealing and not as strong for the PvE content.

@ZOS_Finn @ZOS_GinaBruno

These sets have purpose and its fine to have no death achievement while using these sets

andy_s

Out of the many problems with the game you picked the most insignificant one.

In all dungeons we can skip mechanics by killing bosses before they do any important mechanics that can kill you (including new DLC). Trials also became much easier now when bosses die in 2 minutes. That's why you can get speed runs + no deaths in sets like phoenix and yokeda on DDs, dps will still be more than enough lol.

The only real problem with phoenix is it can be used to avoid "unavoidable" deaths. For example, in shadow world in CR if you failed to find a synergy, then you can just rely on phoenix proc. It's easy to fix, just change it so it doesn't proc on damage that is higher than player's max health.

starkerealm

Nifty2g wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

I hope everyone realizes that this thread was started by someone who used Phoenix to get his Flawless Conqueror back in the day.

That this is a thread started by someone who was so desperate to be able to claim the first NA clear of vMoL that, when confronted with a console guild having beat him by a couple of hours, lied about their clear time.

And now this person is suddenly championing for the sanctity of achievements? The irony is so thick you could choke on it.

The first one is true because I was curious if it worked, since then though I've done qutie a bit of flawless vma runs so I don't see how that matters, maybe the people should go back and get their no deaths in CR, AS without phoenix, but lmao doubt it.

Second one was a complete joke, but that's funny how serious you want to be about it.

Seems like you have some personal issues going on with me @code65536 maybe you're taking this whole topic a little bit to heart

Deny and attack, deny and attack.

Looks pretty bad Nifty, old boy.

I denied what exactly?

since then though I've done qutie a bit of flawless vma runs so I don't see how that matters

Second one was a complete joke, but that's funny how serious you want to be about it.

Nifty2g
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Love Wizard wrote: »
Congratulations, but you're not the first NA clear.
No we beat it before the console crew as far as i know, few hours earlier

Like I said it was a joke CSH made back in the day with them and made up something about timezones.

I feel like I'm missing something. Where's the humor in that? "Oh, hey, guys, see that another guild got this cleared first? Let's claim we're world's first; it'll be hilarious." Why?

Especially, why, "oh, hey, someone who knows how to read the time, what do we do?" "Make up something about time zones, no one understands those."

Just possibly the humor isn't actually for you, it was for the involved parties. Not everything posted on forums or in public is intended for the reader to get an inside joke. Besides its from 2016, who the *** cares. Like I mentioned above it serves no relevance other than an attempt to start an argument over nothing

Right.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

Claim credit for something you didn't do, then claim it was "all a joke," when asked why you would try to take credit for something you didn't do.

Hilarious. ******* hilarious.

Woeler

Reading this thread over my morning coffee already made my day. But as far as the topic goes, I'd say if ZOS doesn't want it,they will remove it at some point.

Also didn’t know this council of raiders relic still existed. It’s been... 3 years since I made it, and at least 2 since I left. Thought it would have imploded on itself by now, but the world is full of surprises.

modaretto

karma69 wrote: »

modaretto wrote: »

I haven't used phoenix for maybe over a year, last time i was in imperial city but i still tested it and unless it changed since then, phoenix does count as death in a trial.

@modaretto you should correct that, last time you used Phoenix was in vHoF first boss

i didn't because i have a habit of testing things and it contributed towards death count, simple as that yokeda on the other hand didn't, which means this was somehow corrected and now it indeed applies without counting towards death.

sorry your burn didn't work as intended

The_Old_Goat

Nifty2g wrote: »

I personally do not mind the set

And yet here we are.

code65536

clv wrote: »

I like how most posters wilfully ignored the screenshot of Finn saying a change was coming to how the set interacted with vitality.

I like how you willfully ignore that the OP made a thread asking Finn to look into the issue of death-avoidance sets when he already knew that Finn had looked into this issue and is unhappy with it in the CoR. It makes one wonder why this thread was really created and what the real agenda is, no?

Nifty2g

code65536 wrote: »

clv wrote: »

I like how most posters wilfully ignored the screenshot of Finn saying a change was coming to how the set interacted with vitality.

I like how you willfully ignore that the OP made a thread asking Finn to look into the issue of death-avoidance sets when he already knew that Finn had looked into this issue and is unhappy with it in the CoR. It makes one wonder why this thread was really created and what the real agenda is, no?

Or maybe I just got told about it as I'm not in CoR. Stop making assumptions @code65536

CyberOnEso

I completely agree with OP. Using those sets isn't clever or whatever, everyone knows about them some choose to use them. In my opinion changing, or fixing, it so that a death whilst wearing Phoenix or Yokuda counts against a no- death. Especially in trials. You can cry 'elitist' all you want but having the hardest achievements in the game able to be cheesed isn't good in the long term.

SoLooney

Lol why do you care if these sets are used to get no deaths in trials?

Someone just mad they will never get the achievements themself?

Every 10 min the sets can be procced, that only allows 1 or 2 mess ups, that's hardly unfair, you still need to be a good player and you're taking a dps loss to do so.

Why dont you worry about yourself and get better as a player instead of bashing end game players

DjMuscleboy02

Anyone who has to use these sets for achievements is bad and are not invited to come play old school RuneScape @imperio