Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Does that involve losing the third bar?

That would be a massive nerf that neither of my sorcs could recover from

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Does that involve losing the third bar?

That would be a massive nerf that neither of my sorcs could recover from

That's why I'm asking. I already run into barspace issues on both my sorcs, thanks to the need for double-/ tripleslotting.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

I have been playing a ton of pvp since the patch, and one really big pain point is the lack of a good burst ultimate for mag sorcs. Meteor gets blocked nearly every time and doesnt compare favorably to dawnbreaker.

This is high on our priority list for mag sorc now. Wrobel is looking at options for reworking Overload, and we have advised him to move in that direction with it.

The loss of Overload would another step of dumbing down an already simplified class. By the way complaining Sorcs lack a "good burst" ulti is not responsible feedback. I´m already streaking through Cyro 3-shooting people in 3 seconds without even using a fitting build or equipment for it using light Overload instead of Meteor. Having an ultimate that isn´t consumed fully on use is always better for a fluid game than having one that favors an "Ulti dump, then streak away until your Ultis is up again in 2 minutes" playstyle. Sorcs can already decide between OL, Soulstrike, Meteor, or even DB.

It´s not the game´s fault that bad players don´t know

a) when and how to use Overload light attacks
b) when and how to use Overload heavy attacks
c) how to use the third skill bar to increase the class´ flexibility

The only thing I CAN excuse is when people claim that they are stuck in Overload and don´t know how to fix it (by putting a non- directed weapon skill on that bar). THIS is the only thing that really needs to be improved regarding OL.

Chances are that the skill is improved along the lines of the Psijic Healing skill where you get stuck in the Heal mode even more often than in Overload´s Damage mode, so NO "improvement" would be the better alternative.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Can you elaborate, please? Like, what skills for what activity?

Ok, maybe an example:

A typical standard MagSorc (PvP) has 2 skill bars, one for offence, one for defence. He has just ONE mode of attack and if it fails he has to streakshield away.
A magsorc using 3 skill bars can have another defensive bar (for example for all kind of mines) or another offensive bar (with channel and ground based attacks) to cope with classes (DK, Warden, and good Nightblades) and players Sorcs are naturally struggling with.

Or here a StamSorc example:

A StamSorc in a group of more than 4 in PvP:

1. bar: Support Skills including Negate and retreating manoevre.
2. bar: Melee bar including Steel Tornado or Reverse Slice.
3. bar: Special Task skills like Silver Leash, Caltrops etc.

The correct way to do AoE DPS as a StamSorc is to do OL Heavy Attack until the mob´s Health is low enough that Steel Tornado/ Reverb becomes viable, then switch to those two skills. A Dawnbreaker would be a net damage loss, because OL can be used in every situation while a DB can only be used roughly every 40 seconds. Also, the group would not allow the use of the DB because the Ulti has to be saved for the Negate.

In short: StamSorcs would be forced to be a rapid bot and nothing more in group PvP if Overload didn´t exist in its current form.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Does that involve losing the third bar?

That would be a massive nerf that neither of my sorcs could recover from

They could. The second ultimate is much more important than activating a third bar that isn't always there and gets you killed while shaking your hands. Unless you glitch the third ult into it, which is morally questionable.
But I guess there's no harm in just re-designing one morph. I assume Energy Overload is commonly unneeded?

Maybe other sorcs don't realize what they would be giving up if overload was turned into a standard point and click ultimate? I know plenty that do and wouldn't want to give it up. If ZOS deems the extra skills to be unfair then that's one thing. But I would really prefer if something isn't "improved" in theory and in practice massively screws my builds.

My stamsorc uses bound armaments on front and back bar so as not to lose stamina on bar swap and keep the regens consistent. Naturally this is also on the third bar which leaves 4 spaces on the overload bar: area control and utility (caltrops, rearming trap, dark deal, defensive rune) 8+4=12 skills.

For magsorc the situation is much more dire. In the same way overload is for area control and utility (mines, volcanic rune/flex skill, boundless storm, dark deal) The 5th slot is for Hardened Ward so I don't get caught out with my shield down. That's 10+4=14 skills.

It makes sense that a class with stat skills and double bar skills would have the option to run a third bar (that usually is partially filled with the double bar skills making them triple barred) but eliminating it entirely makes my playstyle both less viable and less fun. I don't use the third bar to slot an extra ult or do anything unintended. Functionally both of my builds have one ultimate and a clunky way to activate an extra bar for utility. I will sorely miss it if the third bar is scrapped. Like, really really REALLY miss it

It will cut down on the fun factor for me so much that it can't be overstated.

Edit: always call it "Dark Deal" but obviously use the stamina/magicka one where appropriate. also please don't take away my Batman utility belt T_T

A rework of overload would be a pretty big opening for a further class overhaul. While the 3rd bar is nice, it’s appeal mainly comes from the fact that bar space is so tight.

If we were to lose the 3rd bar but Frags didn’t need another magicka costing skill to proc, the need to double slot stuff was eliminated, and the class untied from Staves, having a lightning based burst ultimate would be a net gain in the big picture.

@Lord-Otto

How about we get the NB treatment and the Aegis buffs get moved to a passive while the skill itself is redone to do something else...

In essence I agree with you two. It's what I meant with the "Without it [overload bar] the toolkit must be improved. E.g. by adding something actual active useful for dds on armor or a snare removal on a class skill."

But somehow I doubt that we will get a fast and complete rework, especially when it comes in form of a buff without any underlying nerf. While necessary, imagine the fire it would set to this forum keyword: "overperforming skills".

The frag idea might be a good way to help out magsorcs barspace, but it does nothing for the stam counterpart. Since the introduction of the psijic line & swift, stamsorcs are nothing "worthwile"/unique but +5% physical damage and an RNG execute. I think another damaging class skill and a fitting ultimate is needed for sorcs, also and especially stam sorcs, on top of the rework of bound armor & snare removal on e.g. streak.

We asked often enough for a major rework and I really doubt it will ever happen.

Oh goodness don't touch overload WTF. At most you can have one morph, energy overload take that one. But leave the other one alone. Unless it is to actually truly improve it. Like making it do air physical damage if your stamina is higher or something. Goodness Killing the third bar for some cheap ultimate...

Lord-Otto wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

I have been playing a ton of pvp since the patch, and one really big pain point is the lack of a good burst ultimate for mag sorcs. Meteor gets blocked nearly every time and doesnt compare favorably to dawnbreaker.

This is high on our priority list for mag sorc now. Wrobel is looking at options for reworking Overload, and we have advised him to move in that direction with it.

This is long overdue and would go a looong way. Good to hear. Now, please make sure he doesn't just make Power Overload stun, but actually re-designs the whole thing.

As an OL fan id hate that. 3rd bar is needed and I enjoy OL when it works right.

Happy with heavy attack to do something else, or one of the morphs. As Energy Overload is way less handy since the cut to 500 from 1000 and it's use in PvE.

it I concur that meteor sucks, and DBoS is popular but physical

cpuScientist wrote: »

Oh goodness don't touch overload WTF. At most you can have one morph, energy overload take that one. But leave the other one alone. Unless it is to actually truly improve it. Like making it do air physical damage if your stamina is higher or something. Goodness Killing the third bar for some cheap ultimate...

Mark my words: if they touch overload they SHALL make it useless and utterly terrible within max 2 patches.

Every time they touch something, they do something wrong and then don't undo the mistake. They make the ability worthless.

Sorcs are the champions of redundant and worthless skills.

If there is a proposal to scrap the third bar I will rally all the sorcs of Tamriel. We will be heard! Don't kid yourselves, Bound Armaments is not going to be moved to a passive, we will not get snare immunity from class skills, and we will not get more utility rolled into class skills. The forums couldn't handle it, it will be worse than the uproar over Sloads. But for my part I will make Sloads QQ look like a child's game if they go after my third bar.

My main class since 2014 have been ESO and the pressure point is always this Wrobel skill in the PVP Combat team skill tree. Particularly the passive that makes Wrobel fire off to random targets and apply random debuffs

One of my biggest pains is that one of the potentially best sets for sorc is tied behind having a pet.... You got it right... necropotence. Why in the world does stam get hulking with no conditions on the 5th piece? Get rid of the pet condition on the 5th piece and you'll have a lot of happy mag sorcs ( and other mag classes!) And before some stam person says that'll be too op! Let me remind you that stam can easily get 50k stam and 5k weapon damage using hulking with any multitude of sets that give over 400 weapon damage.

Aedaryl wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics

Don't forget my overload idea.

Make overload a third bar and intant damage by giving to the sorc 2 options :

Get ride of LA and HA thing.

1) Have access to the 3rd bar when you don't target someone. Still a toggle (make it more fluid please).

2) When you target an ennemy, it consume the ultimate, deal instant lighting dodgeable blockable high damage and leave you with your 3rd bar (swich weapon to go back to the normal bar).

Everyone is now happy. Give this idea to wrobel please.

Not happy. We prefer flexibility. Something we lose with your suggestion. We have seen what has been done two our class since Orsinium (the last good patch), and would rather avoid further "improvements".


1. What could such a skill do for you that a Meteor/ Soulstrike can´t?

2. The LA and HA have a purpose. The HA is typically a very weak Destro Ulti (still stronger than most other class Ultis though), the LA is like an Assassin´s Will Spectral Bow that costs Ulti instead of light attacks. Both have the advantage that they don´t consume your Ulti fully to compensate for their relative weakness.

Want to be a healer? Just switch bars, and you can throw a barrier even though you have "used" your OL 3 seconds before.
Want to be a tank? Switch bars, and you can still use a shield ulti 5 seconds after pulling trash with Encae and HA.
Want to quickly kill a mob on you while still having to save your real ulti for a later combat situtation? Empowered Overload +x.

I have no quarrels with the typical 1-2-3 instagib Sorcs. But they should rather lobby for a return of our old Frags than destroying the fun for most non-meta players who depend on the Overload as it has always been.