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DK Fossilize, the next cc that needs to Die
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IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
It never had the immobilize though, and that's the important part that sets it apart.
It just had three times the range instead. Come on dude, comparing pre-nerf Rune Cage to current Fossilize is just dumb and you all know it.
Would you want petrify to have the range but could be dodged?
Plus.... As a DK... Wtf would you do with a stunned opponent 28m away?
Obviously DKs don't want range, so to say cage was better than fossilize because of range is :eyeroll:
No lol. The counter to DK is to range them. The reason an unblockable CC wouldn't work with the sorc class is that you both can't have a long range, unblockable CC as that's OP, but to give them a melee one would make it not fit with the rest of their toolkit. Rune Cage was never going to be balanced on sorc.
This is true. Contrary to what reflect would have made you believe, DKs are very vulnerable from ranged attacks. Easy to keep the DK cornered and DK will run out of resources a lot faster than you will at range.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel4 -
DKsUnite✭✭✭✭✭
✭*sigh* lolVyr Cor | Magicka Dragonknight | DC
Vir Cor | Stamina Dragonknight | DC
Latest Videos:
Magicka Dragonknight: Vyr Cor | "A Dragon's Fury" | Magicka Dragonknight PvP
Stamina Dragonknight: Vir Cor | "Heathen" | Stamina Dragonknight PvP
Youtube: CorGaming6 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Either all classes need a hard CC that's undodgeable/unblockable or no class does imo.
Executes and CCs number 1 class divider
Then evasion/mitigation (cloak, Shields, block, dodge)
Nope. Classes who are immobile need them. Classes who aren't don't.
Unless you fancy giving DK mobility or range on demand and the full burst of other classes to time into a combo.Edited by ak_pvp on August 21, 2018 2:30AMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The_Brosteen wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »You salty sorcs still don't understand balancing. You think "hur our my OP skill got nerfed, so the other class surely is OP for having a skill like it"
No, start using your brains... Let's compare these two classes.
Shield stacking? DKs have this? Oh no that's a sorc thing.
Execute (that goes off automatically)? Oh would you looky there, DKs don't have an execute in sight.
Mobility? Oh, silly me DKs don't even know what mobility is such a slow and clunky class.
Delayed and timed burst that can instakill the exact instance a rune cage is set? You guessed it, nope Dks don't have that either.
So, stop crying. Without fossilize DKs which are already always getting nerfed and has been mid to bottom tier for some time now in PVP would be exceptionally worst off than Sorcs are now. If you want to base DKs skills off other classes, give us an execute, and all the extra special stuff that comes along with using the other classes.
Oh and rune cage could stun you and have a sorc kill you from half way across the map. That's not happing with a dk.
DKs can shield stack if they want to. Harness magicka AND Healing ward are both available to DKs. Sorcs need to shield stack as they will die in 2 hits otherwise. DKs do not, and are tanky enough just from class abilities. They don't need burst or an execute with the insane damage numbers they can pull. If there is a decent DK in your BG match, you can basically guarantee they will be top of the scoreboard damage wise. Plus, they have wings which fully counters a lot of ranged builds.
what a load of bull
OP please L2P if you died to dk while on magsorc just go delete your character kthx
Yea! L2P! It's not like Dks have a skill that hard counters almost all ranged attacks mag sorcs use.
Wait a second....
Frags and LA on you average build. Curse, fury, pulse, rune (rip) pets, etc. All open. Don't even compare wings ao, it's like a *** harness, 4 projectiles is nothing for open world.
Sorc has pets, mines and though not exclusive, harness.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭While NB mains are sitting back enjoying non stop buffs and indirect buffs are we really going to keep bringing the other classes down more?
Sorcs chill ur just fine2 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Brosteen wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »You salty sorcs still don't understand balancing. You think "hur our my OP skill got nerfed, so the other class surely is OP for having a skill like it"
No, start using your brains... Let's compare these two classes.
Shield stacking? DKs have this? Oh no that's a sorc thing.
Execute (that goes off automatically)? Oh would you looky there, DKs don't have an execute in sight.
Mobility? Oh, silly me DKs don't even know what mobility is such a slow and clunky class.
Delayed and timed burst that can instakill the exact instance a rune cage is set? You guessed it, nope Dks don't have that either.
So, stop crying. Without fossilize DKs which are already always getting nerfed and has been mid to bottom tier for some time now in PVP would be exceptionally worst off than Sorcs are now. If you want to base DKs skills off other classes, give us an execute, and all the extra special stuff that comes along with using the other classes.
Oh and rune cage could stun you and have a sorc kill you from half way across the map. That's not happing with a dk.
DKs can shield stack if they want to. Harness magicka AND Healing ward are both available to DKs. Sorcs need to shield stack as they will die in 2 hits otherwise. DKs do not, and are tanky enough just from class abilities. They don't need burst or an execute with the insane damage numbers they can pull. If there is a decent DK in your BG match, you can basically guarantee they will be top of the scoreboard damage wise. Plus, they have wings which fully counters a lot of ranged builds.
what a load of bull
OP please L2P if you died to dk while on magsorc just go delete your character kthx
Yea! L2P! It's not like Dks have a skill that hard counters almost all ranged attacks mag sorcs use.
Wait a second....
Frags and LA on you average build. Curse, fury, pulse, rune (rip) pets, etc. All open. Don't even compare wings ao, it's like a *** harness, 4 projectiles is nothing for open world.
Sorc has pets, mines and though not exclusive, harness.
Harness Magicka is offended by your comparison. It offers magicka return to be useful, you fiend!Edited by IZZEFlameLash on August 21, 2018 2:51AMImperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭Artemiisia wrote: »well when they leave sorcs alone, last 8 patches they nerfed sorc sorcs sorcs
now DKs fossilize needs to be nerfed too, to the same level as rune cage
So make it dodgeable but add damage, a glitched unbreakable animation, and a 32m range? I'll take it0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Either all classes need a hard CC that's undodgeable/unblockable or no class does imo.
Executes and CCs number 1 class divider
Then evasion/mitigation (cloak, Shields, block, dodge)
Nope. Classes who are immobile need them. Classes who aren't don't.
Unless you fancy giving DK mobility or range on demand and the full burst of other classes to time into a combo.
With meteor there's always a burst combo.
I thought it was Meteor, Petrify, whip for MDK?
And with swift, DK has mobility, all classes have mobility now, especially with race against time
So....
Seems like they already have it
+HoTs
+Burst Heal
+Reflect
+Snare Removal
+Ult Gain
But do go on about how much worse mDK is to mSorc4 -
Shadowmaster✭✭✭✭Was telling someone about the bug and then he experienced it on livestream in battlegrounds. There are entire teams that centralize themselves around the exploit and you can see the indications of it... that and they suck at damage as well.
well the good news is I ran into 3/5 premades today in bgs using this HORSE DUNG0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Either all classes need a hard CC that's undodgeable/unblockable or no class does imo.
Executes and CCs number 1 class divider
Then evasion/mitigation (cloak, Shields, block, dodge)
Nope. Classes who are immobile need them. Classes who aren't don't.
Unless you fancy giving DK mobility or range on demand and the full burst of other classes to time into a combo.
With meteor there's always a burst combo.
I thought it was Meteor, Petrify, whip for MDK?
And with swift, DK has mobility, all classes have mobility now, especially with race against time
So....
Seems like they already have it
+HoTs
+Burst Heal
+Reflect
+Snare Removal
+Ult Gain
But do go on about how much worse mDK is to mSorc
DKs have ult gain? What? 15% or so cost reduction is better than 3 ult every 6 or so seconds. Much better ult uptime. HoT is once per 5 seconds deal and Resto is not DK exclusive. Burst Heal that may or may not even get you out of execute range for 4k magicka. And Burning Embers don't heal much if ticks are missed and cleansed. But I guess it works on Sorc. Reflect with crucial main spammable unreflectable and cannot even reflect Sload's. And can be taken off so easy and expensive to maintain. But I guess reflect is there. So is snare removal.
DKs however:
Lacks burst if you build some sustain.
Lacks sustain if you build for burst.
Lacks sustain and damage if built to survive.
Magicka Sorcs can:
Build for burst and still maintain better sustain than a DK.
Build for sustain and still have better burst than a DK
Survivability is tied to the max resource so damage is accompanied by defense which is much better than a DK.
Make no mistake, wings are better now but it still is no Mist Form substitute. It does not help mitigate more than range for 4 projectiles and is not actual repositioning tool. I keep finding myself going back to Mist Form to reposition as it doesn't cost me stamina (block and/or sprint while wing is up) to reposition.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel10 -
Ozazz✭✭✭✭Can everyone stop asking for nerfs please on every skill/ class/ playstyle...just stop. Also try playing DK, then come back and talk about nerfs if you must.
you have no room to talk about nurfing anything when mgk sorc has literally gotten butchered and the most nurfed class in game, also your class completely counters mgk sorc!!!and just about anything that has mobility. coming off really biased here. yayyy rune cage got debuffed twice but oh wait Dont nurf my undogeables!!!1 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭
Fossilize behaves like it currently does for almost a year now but right after the rune cage nerf you come to the forums and say 'it needs a fix and fast'? So guess what, I don't believe you when you say this isn't about the rune cage nerf. Otherwise, why did you never ask for both abilities to be nerfed when rune cage was still incredible strong?
Edit: It's also simply not true that fossilize has a damage over time effect and the longest cc time. On top of that: immobilizing and root is the same thing as mentioned earlier.
Guess what, no one complained about rune cage during the whole DB patch either. But here we go, in Summerset it received a slight dmg buff, and suddenly became an OP skill, which had to lose:
1) damage
2) undodgable
3) duration
in order to become balanced in forumtards opinion.
Please, convince me that it’s not connected with a constant nerf sorc train, or keep your valiuble opinion with yourself.
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Ozazz✭✭✭✭also mgk is probably in the best spot its been in a while so its no wonder your begging for no nurfs Great mobility with Swift, new Snare removal. which should of never been a thing. and the the ability to mitigate all range damage just about.
class is not balanced as the game stands right now!Edited by Ozazz on August 21, 2018 4:22AM0 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭Can everyone stop asking for nerfs please on every skill/ class/ playstyle...just stop. Also try playing DK, then come back and talk about nerfs if you must.
No kidding, man! The first time he realized he practically has to jump on the other player's back to be in range he'll likely change his song.0 -
Ozazz✭✭✭✭Artemiisia wrote: »Artemiisia wrote: »well when they leave sorcs alone, last 8 patches they nerfed sorc sorcs sorcs
now DKs fossilize needs to be nerfed too, to the same level as rune cage
Like was already said : try playing DK for a while before being so into this then come back and tell us what you think.
I have a max level dk, its easy to get close to targets as dk, chains, 2handers, 1h/shield all gap closers
actually ahve 14 maxed chars, played since beta, where DKs could tank 20 people in cyrodil laughin, and go to the bathroom come back and still be alive
So you should know even more than I do how much the class can be a problem to play at the moment, and that nerfing one of the best skills it has will make it so much worse. Or are you saying DK are overpowered in general because of this one skill? Just seems odd that you start up a thread about nerfing DK's as soon as you're unhappy about a sorc skill being nerfed.
Whatever anyway, game's back up now, so will leave you to it. Can't see this thread going anywhere other than arguments though.
i'm pretty sure the entire eso community would like to see fossilize become doge able, that is for anyone that is not a biased dk main. the fact that you burn stamina due to another player spamming a button does not implement skillful game play, in fact it gives the upper hand to the player that witnesses a player doge rolling and they can take advantage of them by making them burn their stamina anyone that has a brain inside their head can realize this, and to give unfair treatment to one class "SORCERER" and not another is all together being biased sooooooooooooooo
get rekt0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Artemiisia wrote: »well when they leave sorcs alone, last 8 patches they nerfed sorc sorcs sorcs
now DKs fossilize needs to be nerfed too, to the same level as rune cage
That’s BS. The range on rune cage was nuts. Fossilize has an actual cool down that works. And if you can’t break and roll dodge maybe learning how wouldn’t hurt much.
If MagDk had an execute then fossilize/execute would be op. As it is talons, whip, fossilize, powerlash Leap and Hope Skoria procs is about it.0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fossilize being unblockable and undodgeable is fine. What's not fine is the immobilization attached to it, especially vs. magicka chars. But well, it's not a Sorc skill, so people will say it's absolutely ok.
Geeze, break free dodge roll, mist, rapids lmao or just stand in it and deal damage after the break. I main a magdk and duel magdk’s every day.1 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In cyro I'd need to leap/chain into a Zerg to get close enough to a sorc to land fossilize... And I'm still dead dk lol. My first toon in 2014 was a dk and I loved playing it. Took a couple years off from the game and find I'm rebuilding from scratch due to all the nerfs. At least give me till the next dlc before we talk about more!Edited by Siohwenoeht on August 21, 2018 5:36AM"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard1 -
coplannb16_ESO✭✭✭✭"Waffennacht wrote: »...
With meteor there's always a burst combo.
I thought it was Meteor, Petrify, whip for MDK?
And with swift, DK has mobility, all classes have mobility now, especially with race against time
so in your world DK can burst (on demand and only) with an ultimate? good to know, didnt know that other classes couldnt use an ultimate ON TOP of their regular burst-combos...
as for swift, a DK would need least 2 of those losing on sustain or damage. NBs and Sorcs do not need them to have their mobility, further increasing the gap of sustain and damage versus a dk.
race against time is pretty worthless imho, it doesnt remove snare, lasts only 3 secs and for that costs a lot of magicka. If it was at least 4 seconds it might take the spot of mist, but mist nevertheless also negates 75% of incoming damage.max level: mDK, stamBlade, stamSorc, magPlar, mDen, stamDen, magBlade, stamCro
ESO+
# of mules: 4 (FULL)
maxed bank: FULL -_-
Stop the grind! Get rid of stupid events and daily-quest gallore. Get rid of "have a chance of 1 in a million to get a piece of 1 in 30 to get a stupid motif or pet... wtf..."
And at this point just remove all classes and have everyone choose their set of skills. then balance accordingly to skills always used vs. skills never used.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Artemiisia wrote: »well when they leave sorcs alone, last 8 patches they nerfed sorc sorcs sorcs
now DKs fossilize needs to be nerfed too, to the same level as rune cage
Fossilize has an actual cool down that works.
You know that you can't even cast Rune Cage on a cc immune target, right?coplannb16_ESO wrote: »"Waffennacht wrote: »...
With meteor there's always a burst combo.
I thought it was Meteor, Petrify, whip for MDK?
And with swift, DK has mobility, all classes have mobility now, especially with race against time
so in your world DK can burst (on demand and only) with an ultimate? good to know, didnt know that other classes couldnt use an ultimate ON TOP of their regular burst-combos...
When was the last time you died to a sorc's curse/frags/fury no-ult combo on a build that is worth it's salt?0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Either all classes need a hard CC that's undodgeable/unblockable or no class does imo.
Executes and CCs number 1 class divider
Then evasion/mitigation (cloak, Shields, block, dodge)
Nope. Classes who are immobile need them. Classes who aren't don't.
Unless you fancy giving DK mobility or range on demand and the full burst of other classes to time into a combo.
With meteor there's always a burst combo.
I thought it was Meteor, Petrify, whip for MDK?
And with swift, DK has mobility, all classes have mobility now, especially with race against time
So....
Seems like they already have it
+HoTs
+Burst Heal
+Reflect
+Snare Removal
+Ult Gain
But do go on about how much worse mDK is to mSorc
Meteor petrify whip is less damage than curse/frags/fury with old rune. Oh, and its an ult combo, unless you want to add meteor to the sorc one too. All that guaranteed to land within 2s from range vs melee.
Swift lol. Every class can use swift, which sacrifices a slot. But not every class has shade/streak/cloak/built in reliable expedition. Race is bad, I really like 3s of expedition and small stam cost for nearly 4k mag cost, definitely matches up... Oh nope.
Ult gain, funny you mention that, since DK has the 2nd worst ulting potential, they do get a lot from it, but the actual ability to ult is tied worst. Wardens and NBs are fastest, then sorc with the 15% less cost, and then DK and templar with 0.5 ult per sec. Nice job.
The healing is nice, no doubt, about parallel with warden/templar. But overall defense is pretty weak compared to warden/sorc/NB because of the defile meta and having nothing else really but be tanky and live, wings is weak for OW, the snare removal is eh at best, better than nothing and for wing spammy escaps, but not good enough in combat. I literally run forward momentum on my MagDK, because 2.5s for 8s> 3.7k for 2s. DK isn't mobile enough to make good use of such a low immunity, since they can't avoid the attacks that snare.
As for reflect, OP in a 1v1 vs magblades and certain sorcs, a weak shield that only works on like 10% of attacks otherwise.
Edited by ak_pvp on August 21, 2018 6:36AMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.2 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
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Fossilize behaves like it currently does for almost a year now but right after the rune cage nerf you come to the forums and say 'it needs a fix and fast'? So guess what, I don't believe you when you say this isn't about the rune cage nerf. Otherwise, why did you never ask for both abilities to be nerfed when rune cage was still incredible strong?
Edit: It's also simply not true that fossilize has a damage over time effect and the longest cc time. On top of that: immobilizing and root is the same thing as mentioned earlier.
Guess what, no one complained about rune cage during the whole DB patch either. But here we go, in Summerset it received a slight dmg buff, and suddenly became an OP skill, which had to lose:
1) damage
2) undodgable
3) duration
in order to become balanced in forumtards opinion.
Please, convince me that it’s not connected with a constant nerf sorc train, or keep your valiuble opinion with yourself.
I complained about it, not many people used it, but taking a full sorc *** you combo from 41m hurt even without the extra 2k damage rune gave. Its just that more people used it when it damaged because then it was useful outside of just CCing.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe nerf heavy attacks. Too much sustain going around
"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard2 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Maybe nerf heavy attacks. Too much sustain going around
these were nerfed. Killed sDK in PvE.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dunno why people talk about old rune, it's gone, it's now
yeah, I would have to say mDK has a much better toolkit than the completely dodgeable, except curse, no healing, no worthwhile ult (overload is a gimmick that anybody should be able to dodge) mSorc
Oh and mDK has access to major expedition and mag gap closer, dunno why you people keep saying it's immobile
Heals:
Whip
Engulfing Flames
Blood
Major expedition + gap closer
Snare Removal + reflect
Talons dmg + roots
Stone fist - range CC + dmg
Petrify unblockable undodgeable + roots
Ult gain = .5 per 1 sec on par with sorc 15% reduction
Ok it doesn't have an execute, but I think the rest makes up for it
GD work at 4 amEdited by Waffennacht on August 21, 2018 9:51AM1 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Maybe nerf heavy attacks. Too much sustain going around
these were nerfed. Killed sDK in PvE.
I shelved my sDK too. Now they want to come after my pvp DK... Again..."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard2
This discussion has been closed.