DK Fossilize, the next cc that needs to Die

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2018

Enslaved wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

Enslaved wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sure. Give us shieldstacking and give us 41m range on fossilize.

Last I checked you can stack dampen magicka and healing ward....

last time I checked that combo is inferior to ward + dampen + healing ward.

Don't worry, Shields are going to be nerfed so healers feel more important

Im a sDK. I dont care about healers.

So, because you don't need a healer to keep you alive or because you have no issues tearing through shields?

Waffennacht · August 2018

Enslaved wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

Enslaved wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sure. Give us shieldstacking and give us 41m range on fossilize.

Last I checked you can stack dampen magicka and healing ward....

last time I checked that combo is inferior to ward + dampen + healing ward.

Don't worry, Shields are going to be nerfed so healers feel more important

Im a sDK. I dont care about healers.

Ok, that's fine, but you Should Care About Balance.

I mean this whole thread could be "I don't use mSorc or mMag DK so Nerf both!". Which is not helpful for the game.

Aedaryl · August 2018

pieratsos wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

There is so much stupidities in this thread.

Fist, leave fossilize alone, nerfing it would heavely hurt dk, just like sorc was gutted when stun was took away from frag.

Let's start.

MagDK is easely the second best magicka class, (NB first) and mDK is very and rightfully strong. Dk is better than sorc.

Dk have :

-better sustain than sorc (yeah this is a fact.)
-better ultimate burst than sorc (meteor 100% blocked)
-better pressure (dots are the power of magdk, they can compete vs stam builds because they have strong pressure and guaranted burst).
-the ability to chase people with the best gap closer
-the best stamina managment
-A good non 100% counterable cheap and strong ultimate
- Very good healing with PL being stronger than vigor, with ember burst heal, with the HoT buble, with major mending. (Not all used on the same build ofc).
- The more offensive they are, the better heals they got, they don't need to totaly stop attacking every 5s for 2s to shieldstack.

The only thing sorc make better than dk is running away and execute. You see it comming ? You can't be a competitive fighter by running away from the fight or by spaming execute with NO way to burst (telegraphed and blocable/dodgeable) aswell as with NO way to pressure (u need to stop for shieldstack, u have no dot or defile and when u land skill, 3 of them are for delayed use).

MSorc is the worst class in the game for competitive gameplay. This isn't opinion but it's fact.

For the sad sorc around here, you would need to nerf far too much things to make sorc competitive. Stop that crusade, and ask for revelent buff.

You are aware of the fact 99% of mDKs are Dunmer, a.k.a. the worst magicka race when it comes down to sustain?
Are you aware 90%+ of mSorcs are Altmer, a.k.a. race with more magicka % and 10% more magicka regen than said Dunmers?

Did you really compare non target required streak that is also a stun on demand with chains?
Did you know that the most blocked ultimate in history of ESO is leap?
Did you just compared 15% cheaper ultimates sorc get with 0.5 ulti per second bonus DK can get only while in combat?
Did you just said sorc has worse sustain?

You, my good sir are a poor troll. 2/10

You lack knowledge really.

Sorc sustain is the worst because how shieldstacking work. They have expensive skills like dk but they are forced to spend 6886 magicka every 5s MINIMUM just to stay alive. When the sorc is pressurise the cost is 10788.

Sorcerers (10% mag recovery) in light armor (20% more recovery, 10% reduce cost), altmer (10% mag recovery) need to wear a full sustain set (lich) to not be OOM, even when harness, the most OP magicka return in the game carry sorc. A heavy armor dunmer dk can sustain with less than 1k mag recovery and 2 reduce cost glyph. A light armor dk sustain with 700 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost. It just proove my point.

Streak as a stun is not reliable and force sorcerer into melee gameplay and it's don't even touch people mooving fast with speed pots and swift being around. I didn't compare chain and streak. DK have chain to go melee, sorc have streak to go away. Different. One just have no cost increase and isn't outperformed by 5 of the 10 class in eso.

Leap the most blocked ultimate in eso history ? It's a shame at this point. Everyone with a halfbrain can tell you meteor is the most blocked ultimate, because of the HUGE telegraph.

DK having a bad ultimate regen is a JOKE, read me well all dk lacking knowledge.

How much second a sorc need to use his offensive ultimate ?

- Meteor : (170/3 57s
- Atronach : (170/3) = 57s
- Dawnbreaker : (107/3) = 36s

How much second dk need to use his offensive ultimate ?

- Leap : (125/3.5) = 36s

You speak about the 15% sorc ultimate passive, but it's good only on paper, SORC NEED MORE TIME to use his ultimate, and if he choose to use a stamina ultimate, he still need the same time, but with worst result.

How much second a Sorc need to use his defensive ultimate ?

- Atronach : 57s
- Resto ulti : (107/3) = 36s
- For the joke, spell wall = (115/3) = 39s

How much second a DK need to use his defensive ultimate ?

- Resto ulti : (125/3.5) = 36s
- Spell wall : (135/3.5)= 39s

You want to tell me "it's biased you take cheap ultimate so the 15% sorc passive ins't working at his best", again it's ***.

How much second a DK need to use a destro ultimate : (250/3.5) = 71.4s

How much second a Sorc need to use a destro ultmate : (213/3) = 71s

NO DK DON'T HAVE A WORSE ULTI REGEN THAN A SORC, they have the same, and dk is in a better place because his offensive ultimate (leap) is better than any sorc option.

Even meteor take the same time on both sorc and DK because how mountain's blessing work :

Sorc : (170/3) = 57s
DK : 200 cost, dk get 3 additional ultimate very 6s in fight so it follow like that (6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3) in 57s DK gain 201 ultimate.

Stop this non sense please.

This post might be biggest load of crap ever seen on this forums.

Sure as hell not bigger than saying that DKs have worse sustain because they choose to play dark elves. Key word is choose in case you didnt understand it.

Proove my post is wrong or don't write.

Arthg · August 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

There is so much stupidities in this thread.

Fist, leave fossilize alone, nerfing it would heavely hurt dk, just like sorc was gutted when stun was took away from frag.

Let's start.

MagDK is easely the second best magicka class, (NB first) and mDK is very and rightfully strong. Dk is better than sorc.

Dk have :

-better sustain than sorc (yeah this is a fact.)
-better ultimate burst than sorc (meteor 100% blocked)
-better pressure (dots are the power of magdk, they can compete vs stam builds because they have strong pressure and guaranted burst).
-the ability to chase people with the best gap closer
-the best stamina managment
-A good non 100% counterable cheap and strong ultimate
- Very good healing with PL being stronger than vigor, with ember burst heal, with the HoT buble, with major mending. (Not all used on the same build ofc).
- The more offensive they are, the better heals they got, they don't need to totaly stop attacking every 5s for 2s to shieldstack.

The only thing sorc make better than dk is running away and execute. You see it comming ? You can't be a competitive fighter by running away from the fight or by spaming execute with NO way to burst (telegraphed and blocable/dodgeable) aswell as with NO way to pressure (u need to stop for shieldstack, u have no dot or defile and when u land skill, 3 of them are for delayed use).

MSorc is the worst class in the game for competitive gameplay. This isn't opinion but it's fact.

For the sad sorc around here, you would need to nerf far too much things to make sorc competitive. Stop that crusade, and ask for revelent buff.

You are aware of the fact 99% of mDKs are Dunmer, a.k.a. the worst magicka race when it comes down to sustain?
Are you aware 90%+ of mSorcs are Altmer, a.k.a. race with more magicka % and 10% more magicka regen than said Dunmers?

Did you really compare non target required streak that is also a stun on demand with chains?
Did you know that the most blocked ultimate in history of ESO is leap?
Did you just compared 15% cheaper ultimates sorc get with 0.5 ulti per second bonus DK can get only while in combat?
Did you just said sorc has worse sustain?

You, my good sir are a poor troll. 2/10

You lack knowledge really.

Sorc sustain is the worst because how shieldstacking work. They have expensive skills like dk but they are forced to spend 6886 magicka every 5s MINIMUM just to stay alive. When the sorc is pressurise the cost is 10788.

Sorcerers (10% mag recovery) in light armor (20% more recovery, 10% reduce cost), altmer (10% mag recovery) need to wear a full sustain set (lich) to not be OOM, even when harness, the most OP magicka return in the game carry sorc. A heavy armor dunmer dk can sustain with less than 1k mag recovery and 2 reduce cost glyph. A light armor dk sustain with 700 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost. It just proove my point.

Streak as a stun is not reliable and force sorcerer into melee gameplay and it's don't even touch people mooving fast with speed pots and swift being around. I didn't compare chain and streak. DK have chain to go melee, sorc have streak to go away. Different. One just have no cost increase and isn't outperformed by 5 of the 10 class in eso.

Leap the most blocked ultimate in eso history ? It's a shame at this point. Everyone with a halfbrain can tell you meteor is the most blocked ultimate, because of the HUGE telegraph.

DK having a bad ultimate regen is a JOKE, read me well all dk lacking knowledge.

How much second a sorc need to use his offensive ultimate ?

- Meteor : (170/3 57s
- Atronach : (170/3) = 57s
- Dawnbreaker : (107/3) = 36s

How much second dk need to use his offensive ultimate ?

- Leap : (125/3.5) = 36s

You speak about the 15% sorc ultimate passive, but it's good only on paper, SORC NEED MORE TIME to use his ultimate, and if he choose to use a stamina ultimate, he still need the same time, but with worst result.

How much second a Sorc need to use his defensive ultimate ?

- Atronach : 57s
- Resto ulti : (107/3) = 36s
- For the joke, spell wall = (115/3) = 39s

How much second a DK need to use his defensive ultimate ?

- Resto ulti : (125/3.5) = 36s
- Spell wall : (135/3.5)= 39s

You want to tell me "it's biased you take cheap ultimate so the 15% sorc passive ins't working at his best", again it's ***.

How much second a DK need to use a destro ultimate : (250/3.5) = 71.4s

How much second a Sorc need to use a destro ultmate : (213/3) = 71s

NO DK DON'T HAVE A WORSE ULTI REGEN THAN A SORC, they have the same, and dk is in a better place because his offensive ultimate (leap) is better than any sorc option.

Even meteor take the same time on both sorc and DK because how mountain's blessing work :

Sorc : (170/3) = 57s
DK : 200 cost, dk get 3 additional ultimate very 6s in fight so it follow like that (6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3) in 57s DK gain 201 ultimate.

Stop this non sense please.

This post might be biggest load of crap ever seen on this forums.

Sure as hell not bigger than saying that DKs have worse sustain because they choose to play dark elves. Key word is choose in case you didnt understand it.

Proove my post is wrong or don't write.

I think you're missing pieratsos' point.

IMHO your post is wrong because way too theoretical.
You're assuming the DK in combat casts an Earthen ability exactly every 6 seconds.
Combat generates way too many unique and impredictable situations to make this a reasonable, general assumption.

Casting a skill of a given tree within certain intervals to generate ulti points is not a trivial constraint.

Xvorg · August 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

also, for DKs screaming that Fossilize is a melee skill, and has too be used in melee.

WELL! The ENTIRE DK class in designed around melee. You have chains that can bring YOU too the sorc, or the sorc too you. You have the most relient and spammable roots in the game. You are kings of stand your ground PvP fighting WITH the most broken CC in the game.

But dont worry!

DKs are the worst players in this game, so they wont know what they even have before it's gone.

Yo know? After you put chains on any enemy, he gets CC immunity, so Foss would likely do NOTHING

Xvorg · August 2018

Artemiisia wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Fossilized does damage, stuns you, roots you, can’t be blocked.

But it’s working as intended.

Lulz.

I mean that's exactly what the tooltip says, what's your point? You want to further gimp one of the least-used, least effective PvP classes out there?

Thats the problem, the tool tip did say many things on rune cage too, they removed 90% of it

now its time for DKs fossilize to get same treatment, since its the hardest hitting cc in the game now, and the cc that requires most resources to get away from

No.

If as a sorc you die to an 8 mts CC, then the problem is not the CC.

I rarely use fossilize on PvP, because most of the decent enemies use an inmo pot when see a DK. Potatoes, on the other hand, come to the forums.

Aedaryl · August 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

also, for DKs screaming that Fossilize is a melee skill, and has too be used in melee.

WELL! The ENTIRE DK class in designed around melee. You have chains that can bring YOU too the sorc, or the sorc too you. You have the most relient and spammable roots in the game. You are kings of stand your ground PvP fighting WITH the most broken CC in the game.

But dont worry!

DKs are the worst players in this game, so they wont know what they even have before it's gone.

Yo know? After you put chains on any enemy, he gets CC immunity, so Foss would likely do NOTHING

Emporering chains doesn't give cc immunity.

Xvorg · August 2018

Urvoth wrote: »

GawdSB wrote: »

You salty sorcs still don't understand balancing. You think "hur our my OP skill got nerfed, so the other class surely is OP for having a skill like it"

No, start using your brains... Let's compare these two classes.

Shield stacking? DKs have this? Oh no that's a sorc thing.
Execute (that goes off automatically)? Oh would you looky there, DKs don't have an execute in sight.
Mobility? Oh, silly me DKs don't even know what mobility is such a slow and clunky class.
Delayed and timed burst that can instakill the exact instance a rune cage is set? You guessed it, nope Dks don't have that either.

So, stop crying. Without fossilize DKs which are already always getting nerfed and has been mid to bottom tier for some time now in PVP would be exceptionally worst off than Sorcs are now. If you want to base DKs skills off other classes, give us an execute, and all the extra special stuff that comes along with using the other classes.

Oh and rune cage could stun you and have a sorc kill you from half way across the map. That's not happing with a dk.

DKs can shield stack if they want to. Harness magicka AND Healing ward are both available to DKs. Sorcs need to shield stack as they will die in 2 hits otherwise. DKs do not, and are tanky enough just from class abilities. They don't need burst or an execute with the insane damage numbers they can pull. If there is a decent DK in your BG match, you can basically guarantee they will be top of the scoreboard damage wise. Plus, they have wings which fully counters a lot of ranged builds.

So a DK needs to shield stack harness AND healing ward? And tell me, what passive in all the DK kit helps DK to do that?

Becasue DK has one of the worst sustain in the game, no resource reduction passives and all their extra healing passives depends on Elder's Dragon skills activated, so to use those 2 shields it needs to keep Spiked on 100% of the time.

Do you know how much does Spiked costs?

Regarding whips, it is and always has been a meh skill. It was amazing when you were able to reflect all attacks in 4 secs, now you can reflect just 4. And many of those attacks canot be reflected, such as force pulse. Anyway, if you want and advise on how to deal with wings, just slot a shock staff and use force pulse. Then the DK will take full dmg and will lose magicka spamming wings. Or, if you are stam, just go melee.

If you can't do that, then you're such a potato...

Xvorg · August 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the initial hard cc for fossilize but where this skill gets stupid is with the root after. The root after the stun is too strong. It allows magdk to just abuse ranged mag builds with no snare immunity. You end up stam drained standing in a snare bouncing your own attacks off wings until you die. This wasn't exactly a problem when chains was broke af and no one used it, now it's fixed they have and killer gap closer, range reflecting snare immunity, double cc stun, low cost leap ult with high damage and aoe stunting with killer range.... yeah magdk is strong.

Magdk is the most broken class to play against as a ranged character

Yes I play magdk before all you nerds rage to defend your class.

Sure, shock staff and force pulse cannot be used on PvP... oh, wait.

You know, I went shock staff on my mDK and I laugh at those noobs DK spamming wings, burt I laugh even harder at those potatoes using Flame staff against wings... like "what's their problem?"...

If you see DK, DO NOT use projectiles. As a sorc, just use pulse, curse, wrath and meteor/Soul assault. Do not use frags. Do not use clench. Is that so hard?

Joy_Division · August 2018

Perhaps someday people will realize that asking for nerfs are self-defeating because whoever gets nerfed is going to ask everyone else gets nerfed and the end result is we're all playing overnerfed classes.

Xvorg · August 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

also, for DKs screaming that Fossilize is a melee skill, and has too be used in melee.

WELL! The ENTIRE DK class in designed around melee. You have chains that can bring YOU too the sorc, or the sorc too you. You have the most relient and spammable roots in the game. You are kings of stand your ground PvP fighting WITH the most broken CC in the game.

But dont worry!

DKs are the worst players in this game, so they wont know what they even have before it's gone.

Yo know? After you put chains on any enemy, he gets CC immunity, so Foss would likely do NOTHING

Emporering chains doesn't give cc immunity.

Yes, but empowering is really unreliable since it's a projectile. Better use shielded assault and you get a stun for free (and a small shield that helps). No need to use foss.

Datthaw · August 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Dunno why people talk about old rune, it's gone, it's now

yeah, I would have to say mDK has a much better toolkit than the completely dodgeable, except curse, no healing, no worthwhile ult (overload is a gimmick that anybody should be able to dodge) mSorc

Oh and mDK has access to major expedition and mag gap closer, dunno why you people keep saying it's immobile

Heals:
Whip
Engulfing Flames
Blood

Major expedition + gap closer
Snare Removal + reflect

Talons dmg + roots
Stone fist - range CC + dmg
Petrify unblockable undodgeable + roots

Ult gain = .5 per 1 sec on par with sorc 15% reduction

Ok it doesn't have an execute, but I think the rest makes up for it

GD work at 4 am

You must be able to see the futility of expd on a gapcloser yes. How does that help me get away, how do I use that on demand. DK ideally shouldn't even have a gapcloser, it shows how much the control has declined. The snare immunity is not great. I already said and have been saying from the start. If shuffle isn't enough, wings sure as hell isn't.

Stonefist is trash outside being some cheesy zergling who spams it with light attacks. Petrify is nice, no doubt. talons is a near never ran ability because roots don't really hurt the majority of players (stambois) its like rune in fact, why would you want to use an ability that barely works.

Ultgen: Nope, the sorc one works out better. I believe woeler was the one who did a test on akaviri set, and it outperformed other ult gen sets like tavas back in the day. For reference tava gave 3 ult/s.
As for a 1v1, atro is super good, dawnbreaker works if you want to get closer, and meteor can still land if you use rune, since they get CC'd either or.

It doesn't have: Execute, reliable mobility, an escape, good sustain, good defense (wings is lul tier for OW, 90% ignore it, block is bad, so the majority go shields)
It has, decent healing, decent CC, decent damage, though unreliable.

I don't think you know how DK works, they already play like a worse magblade, take the CC power away, and then there is no point at all playing it, because then magblade not only has the better offense, mobility, defense/escape, they then also have the better control. This isn't a DK is terrible, its that DK isn't as good as you think, like the buffs they have got have been minor, since morrow (FOO, small sustain fix but still worst for mag, 2s immunity on a weak ability) yet took endless tankiness nerfs and some offense (whip, foss range) nerfsand somehow they went from absolute worst to amazing?
Nah, other classes just got nerfed down and they don't like it. The DKs are just used to it.

There is a much I dnot agree with in here. Having a maj tied to a gap closer ins not pointless. It's for those "stambois" as you call instead and the streakers. Gapclose and keep your speed up to stay on top of them. This instant a very mobile patch and everyone whipping around so having mag exp tied to your gapclose is not a loss by any means

DK soooooooooo does not play like a worse magblade.... do you even play magblade? I don't even understand how you came to that assumption it is so wrong. And btw magdk owns magblade like hard..... like really bad because of the skill you say is "lul tier" WINGS. And btw this skill is not used less open world because guess what it's your mobility. Snare removal and immunity is priceless in cryo.

The expedition on gap closer is good vs running targets then. Wow, you know what'd be better. Expedition that you could use whenever. Its close to pointless. Its not a bad gapcloser no, because destro resto builds get a lot of damage out of it, but the expd is pointless.

Wings is lul tier, a defense that doesn't work vs 90% of the games abilities, has a small limit, and a short snare immunity. Why use wings when I can use (and do use) forward mementum for much much better escape. 2.5s isn't enough for shuffle, on mobile classes, which can be unchained. However dropping nearly 4k magicka on 2s+weak defense is worth? I have dropped it in very many occasions.
Does it hard counter magblade in a 1v1 yes, but you know what they can do back. Harness, cloak, shade, all these are better than wings. In fact, cloak is infinitely better, i'd trade half my class including wings for it.

It does play like a worse magblade. You dot, root maybe, and LA+spammable until you can CC+Burst. Rinse and repeat. You spam shields along with wings/cloak to escape. DKs don't even use coag on most of their builds anymore.

Idk man, I like wings, however i am not the best dk by any means. My buddy, who is a much better dk than I am, you couldnt pay him to drop wings.

By the way you make it sound, that's really how any class plays, dot line up cc and burst. They just don't play the same, you're never gonna change my opinion on that. I main magnb and have 4 different builds, all play different, none of them play like my magdk.

Edit: and in the defense of chains, unless you los your shade which is a nono in duels, that shade becomes useless. You can't escape when you get chained on your shade then fossilized. Burn all your stam trying to break ccs and you're still on top of your recast. Magdk has alot of tool and playstyles people just overlook imo

Kikke · August 2018

All these DKs screaming that DK is a balanced class. LoL!

Wierd how DKs suddenly have immortal tank builds for Cyro
Wierd how DKs are main population in BGs atm
Wierd how DKs are the most represented in PvP in current patch
Wierd how DKs can build for pure dmg and still be tanky
Wierd how DKs can effectivly counter 2/3 of a Sorcs burst
Wierd how DKs can face tank 4+ people no matter what build.

And worst of all! Wierd how all DK mains scream it's all fine, when it obviously is not!

Sky_WK · August 2018

This is stupid. Learn to play. Its a 8m stun thats easily broken with an immobilize after it. Rune Cage was a 40m stun that did big damage and had a borked break animation that kept you from breaking in time to block a meteor.

Sky_WK · August 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

All these DKs screaming that DK is a balanced class. LoL!

Wierd how DKs suddenly have immortal tank builds for Cyro
Wierd how DKs are main population in BGs atm
Wierd how DKs are the most represented in PvP in current patch
Wierd how DKs can build for pure dmg and still be tanky
Wierd how DKs can effectivly counter 2/3 of a Sorcs burst
Wierd how DKs can face tank 4+ people no matter what build.

And worst of all! Wierd how all DK mains scream it's all fine, when it obviously is not!

Are you *** ***? None of that is true you're clearly just a garbage tier nightblade player who should stick to PvE.

pieratsos · August 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

There is so much stupidities in this thread.

Fist, leave fossilize alone, nerfing it would heavely hurt dk, just like sorc was gutted when stun was took away from frag.

Let's start.

MagDK is easely the second best magicka class, (NB first) and mDK is very and rightfully strong. Dk is better than sorc.

Dk have :

-better sustain than sorc (yeah this is a fact.)
-better ultimate burst than sorc (meteor 100% blocked)
-better pressure (dots are the power of magdk, they can compete vs stam builds because they have strong pressure and guaranted burst).
-the ability to chase people with the best gap closer
-the best stamina managment
-A good non 100% counterable cheap and strong ultimate
- Very good healing with PL being stronger than vigor, with ember burst heal, with the HoT buble, with major mending. (Not all used on the same build ofc).
- The more offensive they are, the better heals they got, they don't need to totaly stop attacking every 5s for 2s to shieldstack.

The only thing sorc make better than dk is running away and execute. You see it comming ? You can't be a competitive fighter by running away from the fight or by spaming execute with NO way to burst (telegraphed and blocable/dodgeable) aswell as with NO way to pressure (u need to stop for shieldstack, u have no dot or defile and when u land skill, 3 of them are for delayed use).

MSorc is the worst class in the game for competitive gameplay. This isn't opinion but it's fact.

For the sad sorc around here, you would need to nerf far too much things to make sorc competitive. Stop that crusade, and ask for revelent buff.

You are aware of the fact 99% of mDKs are Dunmer, a.k.a. the worst magicka race when it comes down to sustain?
Are you aware 90%+ of mSorcs are Altmer, a.k.a. race with more magicka % and 10% more magicka regen than said Dunmers?

Did you really compare non target required streak that is also a stun on demand with chains?
Did you know that the most blocked ultimate in history of ESO is leap?
Did you just compared 15% cheaper ultimates sorc get with 0.5 ulti per second bonus DK can get only while in combat?
Did you just said sorc has worse sustain?

You, my good sir are a poor troll. 2/10

You lack knowledge really.

Sorc sustain is the worst because how shieldstacking work. They have expensive skills like dk but they are forced to spend 6886 magicka every 5s MINIMUM just to stay alive. When the sorc is pressurise the cost is 10788.

Sorcerers (10% mag recovery) in light armor (20% more recovery, 10% reduce cost), altmer (10% mag recovery) need to wear a full sustain set (lich) to not be OOM, even when harness, the most OP magicka return in the game carry sorc. A heavy armor dunmer dk can sustain with less than 1k mag recovery and 2 reduce cost glyph. A light armor dk sustain with 700 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost. It just proove my point.

Streak as a stun is not reliable and force sorcerer into melee gameplay and it's don't even touch people mooving fast with speed pots and swift being around. I didn't compare chain and streak. DK have chain to go melee, sorc have streak to go away. Different. One just have no cost increase and isn't outperformed by 5 of the 10 class in eso.

Leap the most blocked ultimate in eso history ? It's a shame at this point. Everyone with a halfbrain can tell you meteor is the most blocked ultimate, because of the HUGE telegraph.

DK having a bad ultimate regen is a JOKE, read me well all dk lacking knowledge.

How much second a sorc need to use his offensive ultimate ?

- Meteor : (170/3 57s
- Atronach : (170/3) = 57s
- Dawnbreaker : (107/3) = 36s

How much second dk need to use his offensive ultimate ?

- Leap : (125/3.5) = 36s

You speak about the 15% sorc ultimate passive, but it's good only on paper, SORC NEED MORE TIME to use his ultimate, and if he choose to use a stamina ultimate, he still need the same time, but with worst result.

How much second a Sorc need to use his defensive ultimate ?

- Atronach : 57s
- Resto ulti : (107/3) = 36s
- For the joke, spell wall = (115/3) = 39s

How much second a DK need to use his defensive ultimate ?

- Resto ulti : (125/3.5) = 36s
- Spell wall : (135/3.5)= 39s

You want to tell me "it's biased you take cheap ultimate so the 15% sorc passive ins't working at his best", again it's ***.

How much second a DK need to use a destro ultimate : (250/3.5) = 71.4s

How much second a Sorc need to use a destro ultmate : (213/3) = 71s

NO DK DON'T HAVE A WORSE ULTI REGEN THAN A SORC, they have the same, and dk is in a better place because his offensive ultimate (leap) is better than any sorc option.

Even meteor take the same time on both sorc and DK because how mountain's blessing work :

Sorc : (170/3) = 57s
DK : 200 cost, dk get 3 additional ultimate very 6s in fight so it follow like that (6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-3-3) in 57s DK gain 201 ultimate.

Stop this non sense please.

This post might be biggest load of crap ever seen on this forums.

Sure as hell not bigger than saying that DKs have worse sustain because they choose to play dark elves. Key word is choose in case you didnt understand it.

Proove my post is wrong or don't write.

And you missed the point enitrely

TheUndeadAmulet · August 2018

Here's an idea.

Instead of nerfIng everything over.
And over.
And over again.
We buff stuff instead?

Saturn · August 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

I was fine when they nerf rune cage to 3.5sec and made them dodgeble, now this extra nerf they decided to do making it only 2sec, is uncalled for and totally unnecessary since, its so easy to break free from it, if you out of stamnia in my opnion when you get hit by the rune cage, you deserve a punishment which is brings. And you dont suffer any damage at all from it if you break free, which means sorcs wasted the magicka it cost to cast it

Fossilize, has immobilizing, stun, damage over time, roots and longer cc time than any other cc ingame, this needs a fix, and fast

and again it dont matter its a melee skill, since you wont cast it anyways if it was range, unless you are magicka DK, otherwise DKs has the best gap closer in the game chains, that dont cost anything if it dont work, givin you using the right morph of it.

Its not even about rune cage, tell me about any other cc ingame thats this strong now as DKs Fossilize, there is non that even comes close to it, in any classes, world skills and so on

No sorc is casting Rune Cage for the damage, that's just ridiculous. It's not "wasted magicka" if it doesn't do damage because the point of the skill is the hard CC stun. A good sorc can utilize that to help with their burst combo. A bad sorc will rely on the pitiful damage from Rune Cage and cry when it doesn't work.

You said immobilizing, and roots when describing Fossilize. That's the same thing. Stop trying to make the skill look like it's overperforming by exaggerating your BS. Also, it does not have damage over time. Just an instant cast damage that is very low. The duration of the CC is mostly irrelevant because a good player will break free instead of waiting for it to end. A bad player (or a player who is out of stamina, or who is just a tank) will allow the CC duration to end on any skill, but for most people, that spells certain death if you get CC'd by anyone who knows what they're doing.

Chains is the best gap closer in the game? Really? Do we even play the same game? The damage tied to chains is negligible, the only benefit it really has is empower (two stronger light attacks), and Major Expedition (the only skill besides rapids or accelerate that DKs can use for that buff, mind you). It certainly isn't useful, but the 1h&shield gap closer stuns the target. 2h gap closer always deals critical damage. And chains makes two light attacks 20% stronger? Weak. Don't pretend it's an amazing skill, it's ok at best. The free cost morph is garbage and nobody runs it offensively since most players can be pulled most of the time.

Fossilize is the strongest CC in the game, I will give you that. It's hard to deny that a skill that stuns, immobilizes, and deals damage isn't strong. But it doesn't need a nerf. It's pretty much the only skill that makes DKs able to still stand a chance in PvP. Without it, we'd be casting weak DOTs on people who would just be purging us nonstop, and we'd be trying to land whips that would always get dodged. Leap is another good skill DKs have, but that's really it for PvP.

But just because one class has the strongest something in the game, does that mean it should go away? Sorcs have the strongest shields in the game, are you willing to give that up? Sorcs have one of the strongest mobility skills in the game, should we get rid of streak? Bow has the strongest long range burst attack, should we get rid of snipe? Dual wield has one of the strongest spammable AoE undodgeable executes in the game, time to say bye-bye to steel tornado? Night blades have one of the cheapest and strongest long-range executes in the game, are you prepared to nerf killer's blade?

Just because a skill is good doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed or removed. It just means you need to learn to play to counter it.

to sum this up, why didnt you just learn to counter rune cage

Because break free was broken. Even with full stam, it was not always possible to break through, making you a target dummy for a sorc's burst combo.

That isn't anything to do with the skill though. That's just bugged mechanics. If it was fixed, would Rune Cage then need a nerf at all? This is one of those things people will use to justify the Rune Cage nerf, but from my own experience the break free wasn't broken except for very specific circumstances, which, granted, some people choose to exploit. But, there are other stuns also broken, and nothing is being done about this. If something is bugged, it should be fixed, not nerfed.

Saturn · August 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

I was fine when they nerf rune cage to 3.5sec and made them dodgeble, now this extra nerf they decided to do making it only 2sec, is uncalled for and totally unnecessary since, its so easy to break free from it, if you out of stamnia in my opnion when you get hit by the rune cage, you deserve a punishment which is brings. And you dont suffer any damage at all from it if you break free, which means sorcs wasted the magicka it cost to cast it

Fossilize, has immobilizing, stun, damage over time, roots and longer cc time than any other cc ingame, this needs a fix, and fast

and again it dont matter its a melee skill, since you wont cast it anyways if it was range, unless you are magicka DK, otherwise DKs has the best gap closer in the game chains, that dont cost anything if it dont work, givin you using the right morph of it.

Its not even about rune cage, tell me about any other cc ingame thats this strong now as DKs Fossilize, there is non that even comes close to it, in any classes, world skills and so on

But just because one class has the strongest something in the game, does that mean it should go away? Sorcs have the strongest shields in the game, are you willing to give that up? Sorcs have one of the strongest mobility skills in the game, should we get rid of streak? Bow has the strongest long range burst attack, should we get rid of snipe? Dual wield has one of the strongest spammable AoE undodgeable executes in the game, time to say bye-bye to steel tornado? Night blades have one of the cheapest and strongest long-range executes in the game, are you prepared to nerf killer's blade?

I mostly agree with you comment, but I will say that Steel Tornado does need to be nerfed, as it has been overperforming ever since it was made undodgeable. Also, Killer's Blade is the stamina morph of the Nightblade execute (its range is like 5 metres). The magicka morph, Impale, is probably the one you are referring to.

Gilvoth · August 2018

Artemiisia wrote: »

Well since you guys killed the rune cage, then its time to kill fossilize also

this skill requires two skills to counter, no other skill do that

time to nerf this also

Amen, well said.
i agree.

IZZEFlameLash · August 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

All these DKs screaming that DK is a balanced class. LoL!

Wierd how DKs suddenly have immortal tank builds for Cyro
Wierd how DKs are main population in BGs atm
Wierd how DKs are the most represented in PvP in current patch
Wierd how DKs can build for pure dmg and still be tanky
Wierd how DKs can effectivly counter 2/3 of a Sorcs burst
Wierd how DKs can face tank 4+ people no matter what build.

And worst of all! Wierd how all DK mains scream it's all fine, when it obviously is not!

You need to l2p if you get outplayed by a DK. Or you just don't know the difference between Warden and DKs. DKs are none of what you just stated. Warden can be quite immortal, face tank 4 people by just being in the tree ult, effectively counter all Sorc's ranged combos with Shimmering and outheal Curse, build for pure damage and still be tanky. Currently, DKs are none of that. Stop watching video from pre-IC.

callen4492 · August 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

Lamiai wrote: »

Can everyone stop asking for nerfs please on every skill/ class/ playstyle...just stop. Also try playing DK, then come back and talk about nerfs if you must.

DK is the stronger class for BGs atm? and it's extremly easy too play, whats your point?

Sure a DKs in your face playstyle plays alot diffrently than a sorcs ranged style. But still, easy.

You’re one of those people who only plays magsorc and argues that sorcs are so discriminated against in every post you can. Hahaha

Like previously said, give fossilize a 28 meter range and then we can talk about nerfing its other effects. How can you not possibly see that? Blinded by the fact that you only have a magsorc. Same as OP.

Kadoin · August 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the initial hard cc for fossilize but where this skill gets stupid is with the root after. The root after the stun is too strong. It allows magdk to just abuse ranged mag builds with no snare immunity. You end up stam drained standing in a snare bouncing your own attacks off wings until you die. This wasn't exactly a problem when chains was broke af and no one used it, now it's fixed they have and killer gap closer, range reflecting snare immunity, double cc stun, low cost leap ult with high damage and aoe stunting with killer range.... yeah magdk is strong.

Magdk is the most broken class to play against as a ranged character

Yes I play magdk before all you nerds rage to defend your class.

Sure, shock staff and force pulse cannot be used on PvP... oh, wait.

You know, I went shock staff on my mDK and I laugh at those noobs DK spamming wings, burt I laugh even harder at those potatoes using Flame staff against wings... like "what's their problem?"...

If you see DK, DO NOT use projectiles. As a sorc, just use pulse, curse, wrath and meteor/Soul assault. Do not use frags. Do not use clench. Is that so hard?

What if they are spamming absorb magic instead ?

IZZEFlameLash · August 2018

Kadoin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the initial hard cc for fossilize but where this skill gets stupid is with the root after. The root after the stun is too strong. It allows magdk to just abuse ranged mag builds with no snare immunity. You end up stam drained standing in a snare bouncing your own attacks off wings until you die. This wasn't exactly a problem when chains was broke af and no one used it, now it's fixed they have and killer gap closer, range reflecting snare immunity, double cc stun, low cost leap ult with high damage and aoe stunting with killer range.... yeah magdk is strong.

Magdk is the most broken class to play against as a ranged character

Yes I play magdk before all you nerds rage to defend your class.

Sure, shock staff and force pulse cannot be used on PvP... oh, wait.

You know, I went shock staff on my mDK and I laugh at those noobs DK spamming wings, burt I laugh even harder at those potatoes using Flame staff against wings... like "what's their problem?"...

If you see DK, DO NOT use projectiles. As a sorc, just use pulse, curse, wrath and meteor/Soul assault. Do not use frags. Do not use clench. Is that so hard?

What if they are spamming absorb magic instead ?

Then it's only matter of time they run out of stam.

CaliMade · August 2018

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

No.

Rune Prison was OP on Sorcerers because they already have a lot of delayed burst on their class: Mage's Fury and Curse, both can be procced at the same time for huge burst, and you can still use another damage skill on top of it. They could go even further and add Meteor to the combo. Rune Prison made all that damage impossible to deal with, the only counterplay being LoS. When a Sorc uses Clench as CC, I can roll dodge/block it so I don't get bursted. The fact that Rune Prison is dodgeable now means that I can try to predict when they are going to cast it and dodge it. What I don't agree however is that it can be dodged my Minor/Major Evasion, which is just a frustating buff and shouldn't even be in the game to begin with due to the RNG nature.

DK's, however do not possess the same delayed burst Sorcerers have, it's a entirely different matter. They can't hit 3 skills at the same and use Fossilize so you can't do anything about it, at the best they will stun when a Valkyn Skoria procs but that's not limited to DK. The skill is strong because it's a Stun + Immobilize, which burns a good chunk of your stamina. I used to think it was OP too - but after dueling a lot of DKs to practice playing against them, I realized it was mostly a L2P issue. The only thing stupid about DK is Wings, imho. The skill is just unfun to play agains't when you are a MagNB(example), it just delays the fight and there's not much you can do about it, the DK's friends will eventually arrive and you will be dead. It's not that it's OP, more so that it 's frustating to play agains't, which is a gameplay design issue not necessarily a balance issue.

I Agree

about wings tho

i used to think it was unfair against magblades...untill i ran into two mag blades without wings on.
as long as cripple exists in its current state then wings are fine. ill be damned if anyone thinks its fair to just be allowed to free cast from a distance while i sit there with my *** in my hand as im rooted over and over again.

Priyasekarssk · August 2018

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

All these DKs screaming that DK is a balanced class. LoL!

Wierd how DKs suddenly have immortal tank builds for Cyro
Wierd how DKs are main population in BGs atm
Wierd how DKs are the most represented in PvP in current patch
Wierd how DKs can build for pure dmg and still be tanky
Wierd how DKs can effectivly counter 2/3 of a Sorcs burst
Wierd how DKs can face tank 4+ people no matter what build.

And worst of all! Wierd how all DK mains scream it's all fine, when it obviously is not!

No.

If as a sorc you die to an 8 mts CC, then the problem is not the CC.

I rarely use fossilize on PvP, because most of the decent enemies use an inmo pot when see a DK. Potatoes, on the other hand, come to the forums.[/quote]

First win a dueling tournament with magic sorc. Then come and commment in forums and teach other L2P.

Even sypher or kodi cannot do it , when sorc at its prime. Every magic sorc is noob.

Bunch of noob liars who shamelessly lie sorc is overpowered now . Almost 90 percent of the BGs are DKs, Warden & NBs.

Saturn · August 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

All these DKs screaming that DK is a balanced class. LoL!
Wierd how DKs suddenly have immortal tank builds for Cyro

Wierd how DKs are main population in BGs atm

Wierd how DKs are the most represented in PvP in current patch

Wierd how DKs can build for pure dmg and still be tanky

Wierd how DKs can effectivly counter 2/3 of a Sorcs burst

Wierd how DKs can face tank 4+ people no matter what build.

And worst of all! Wierd how all DK mains scream it's all fine, when it obviously is not!

It's spelled: W-e-i-r-d.

Also, 1. has always been the case (at least on CP campaigns, which allow for many stupid builds) and it is not just possible on DK, but also Nightblade, Warden and Templar.
2., 3., 4. and 6. are all wrong. As for 5., if you are having trouble being countered by reflect, start using skills that can't be reflected. DKs aren't OP, you're probably just salty because you keep killing yourself on wings or something.

IZZEFlameLash · August 2018

CaliMade wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

No.

Rune Prison was OP on Sorcerers because they already have a lot of delayed burst on their class: Mage's Fury and Curse, both can be procced at the same time for huge burst, and you can still use another damage skill on top of it. They could go even further and add Meteor to the combo. Rune Prison made all that damage impossible to deal with, the only counterplay being LoS. When a Sorc uses Clench as CC, I can roll dodge/block it so I don't get bursted. The fact that Rune Prison is dodgeable now means that I can try to predict when they are going to cast it and dodge it. What I don't agree however is that it can be dodged my Minor/Major Evasion, which is just a frustating buff and shouldn't even be in the game to begin with due to the RNG nature.

DK's, however do not possess the same delayed burst Sorcerers have, it's a entirely different matter. They can't hit 3 skills at the same and use Fossilize so you can't do anything about it, at the best they will stun when a Valkyn Skoria procs but that's not limited to DK. The skill is strong because it's a Stun + Immobilize, which burns a good chunk of your stamina. I used to think it was OP too - but after dueling a lot of DKs to practice playing against them, I realized it was mostly a L2P issue. The only thing stupid about DK is Wings, imho. The skill is just unfun to play agains't when you are a MagNB(example), it just delays the fight and there's not much you can do about it, the DK's friends will eventually arrive and you will be dead. It's not that it's OP, more so that it 's frustating to play agains't, which is a gameplay design issue not necessarily a balance issue.

I Agree

about wings tho

i used to think it was unfair against magblades...untill i ran into two mag blades without wings on.
as long as cripple exists in its current state then wings are fine. ill be damned if anyone thinks its fair to just be allowed to free cast from a distance while i sit there with my *** in my hand as im rooted over and over again.

Exactly the reason why ranged works so well against DK. Wings alleviate a little bit of pressure but at the end, it will be same. Just less severe.

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

All these DKs screaming that DK is a balanced class. LoL!

Wierd how DKs suddenly have immortal tank builds for Cyro
Wierd how DKs are main population in BGs atm
Wierd how DKs are the most represented in PvP in current patch
Wierd how DKs can build for pure dmg and still be tanky
Wierd how DKs can effectivly counter 2/3 of a Sorcs burst
Wierd how DKs can face tank 4+ people no matter what build.

And worst of all! Wierd how all DK mains scream it's all fine, when it obviously is not!

No.

If as a sorc you die to an 8 mts CC, then the problem is not the CC.

I rarely use fossilize on PvP, because most of the decent enemies use an inmo pot when see a DK. Potatoes, on the other hand, come to the forums.

First win a dueling tournament with magic sorc. Then come and commment in forums and teach other L2P.

Even sypher or kodi cannot do it , when sorc at its prime. Every magic sorc is noob.

Bunch of noob liars who shamelessly lie sorc is overpowered now . Almost 90 percent of the BGs are DKs, Warden & NBs.

And you don't even play DK. A class that you think is OP. Question, did you win the tourney as a mDK? Did you enter the tourney and win at all? No? Never seen your name on the winners list. By your own standard, you are not qualified to speak about any other classes than your own. And here, I thought that certain NB players in the forums were bad. You took this to a new level. If anyone is a noob liar, it is you. Magicka Sorc is gutted compared to its glory past and Rune Cage nerf was overdone. But, it is hardly the weakest class right now.

And you cite mainly stam players and those who rarely play if they even play this game anymore. You must be desperate enough to try to cite them as some sort of proof. Sure, they are good players, but they are not really mSorc mains. The reason why they played mSorc was because it was the least frustrating magicka class to play as at the time. And, no honest people are denying that Sorcs will have trouble killing above potato level players. But no honest players will agree with your assessment.

ak_pvp · August 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

All these DKs screaming that DK is a balanced class. LoL!

Wierd how DKs suddenly have immortal tank builds for Cyro
Wierd how DKs are main population in BGs atm
Wierd how DKs are the most represented in PvP in current patch
Wierd how DKs can build for pure dmg and still be tanky
Wierd how DKs can effectivly counter 2/3 of a Sorcs burst
Wierd how DKs can face tank 4+ people no matter what build.

And worst of all! Wierd how all DK mains scream it's all fine, when it obviously is not!

You are wrong on all accounts though.
I still see more nightblades and sorcs that DK in both BGs and openworld.
The immortal tank builds that deal no damage are better on nightblade, warden. Also, they can still be killed pretty easily with a few people that posses brains and debuffs.
Being tanky and have damage is impossible for MagDKs because of itemization/melee weapons. Its possible on an SDK, but if you die to them outside a duel its a L2P issue.
2/3 of a sorcs burst. You mean frags and light attacks. Also, this is only in a 1v1. You could flip it and say how a sorc can counter 100% of a DKs attacks by harness spamming ad infinium or sitting in mines. Or on a rock/wall where DKs can't gap close to.
Face tank 4 people, lul. Yes 4 noobs do roughly equal 1 semi decent person.

Unless this is bait, in which case I am responding so that idiots don't actually believe this as fact.

mikemacon · August 2018

Yes please.