DK Fossilize, the next cc that needs to Die

xxthir13enxx

The real L2P thing I see is people needing to learn to play without removing other people’s ability to play....
If your relying on Nb-Fear Sorc-Runecage Dk-fossilize to get kills...your not Beating anyone...your simply beating on someone who may aswell be AFK

HankTwo

I don't get why the devs did a double nerf anyway. Removing either the upfront damage or making the skill either dodgeable or blockable would have been enough imo. Doesn't mean that fossilize needs a nerf though.

UppGRAYxDD

They should have just made rune cage a 8m cast range like fossilize imo...

Armatesz

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

The real L2P thing I see is people needing to learn to play without removing other people’s ability to play....
If your relying on Nb-Fear Sorc-Runecage Dk-fossilize to get kills...your not Beating anyone...your simply beating on someone who may aswell be AFK

People were utilizing ways to break cc immunity... so it is not always a l2p sort of thing, the 2 second hopefully will make those that do that exploit find it that much harder to exploit. Was telling someone about the bug and then he experienced it on livestream in battlegrounds. There are entire teams that centralize themselves around the exploit and you can see the indications of it... that and they suck at damage as well.

HankTwo

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

They should have just made rune cage a 8m cast range like fossilize imo...

Taking away the range would render the skill in a state that doesn't synergize with how the class plays.

xeNNNNN

Lamiai wrote: »

Can everyone stop asking for nerfs please on every skill/ class/ playstyle...just stop. Also try playing DK, then come back and talk about nerfs if you must.

This ^

The difference between fossilise and rune prison is that rune prison takes a ton of time to break free from, fossilise is an almost instant breakfree.

You nerf fossilise you break magdk because flame lash needs off balance to proc properly forcing mag dks to then go with a ranged stun or talon spam just to proc flame lash (DKs bread and butter) is stupid.

Fossilises functionality is fine it doesn't interact incorrectly with game mechanics, rune prison did and does and will receive further changes. People whining about this are just mad their sorcs got "nerfed".


Tdlr; Stop whining, use immo pots.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

Feanor wrote: »

Fossilize being unblockable and undodgeable is fine. What's not fine is the immobilization attached to it, especially vs. magicka chars. But well, it's not a Sorc skill, so people will say it's absolutely ok.

It actually makes a lot of sense in the DK toolkit to have an immobilize attached to the skill. Our main spammable (whip) is dodgeable, and dodge rolling is the way to break out of an immobilize. If you blame it's effectiveness on mag toons, then you aren't building your character right. You should have AT LEAST 15k stam in any PvP situation, lower than that is l2p suicide. It's not broken, it's easy to counter as long as you have responsible management of your stamina.

This victim-mentality of sorcs is absolutely ridiculous. You have one of the most powerful burst combos in PvP that can be performed at range. You have an execute that does not need to be cast in execute range. You have incredibly powerful shields. You have one of the best class mobilities in game. DKs get one nice CC, no execute, weak DOTs, and objectively the most useless passives in the game. If you really think it's unfair, roll a magDK and play that for a while, you'll see how nice sorcs have it.

Tan9oSuccka

kikkehs wrote: »

Lamiai wrote: »

Can everyone stop asking for nerfs please on every skill/ class/ playstyle...just stop. Also try playing DK, then come back and talk about nerfs if you must.

DK is the stronger class for BGs atm? and it's extremly easy too play, whats your point?

Sure a DKs in your face playstyle plays alot diffrently than a sorcs ranged style. But still, easy.

It’s so easy, huh? You make it sound like they’re everywhere, right?

I rarely (almost never) face another Stam DK in both BGs and overland. Mag DK even less so.

Mostly Sorcs and Nightblades. With a few healbot Magplars scattered around.

So go ahead. Nerf the one semi decent DK class ability so we can get back to surprise attacking each other.

ChunkyCat

Fossilized does damage, stuns you, roots you, can’t be blocked.

But it’s working as intended.

Lulz.

ak_pvp

kikkehs wrote: »

also, for DKs screaming that Fossilize is a melee skill, and has too be used in melee.

WELL! The ENTIRE DK class in designed around melee. You have chains that can bring YOU too the sorc, or the sorc too you. You have the most relient and spammable roots in the game. You are kings of stand your ground PvP fighting WITH the most broken CC in the game.

But dont worry!


DKs are the worst players in this game, so they wont know what they even have before it's gone.

Foss with range was good for catching those escaping or being a defacto gap closer. It's a nice stun but the fact that chains is even needed is problematic.

You know that stand your ground isn't viable yes? And even less so on a MagDK, no fury like super high dmg sets, weaker weaves, low mobility no heavy for main stay regen, heavy is poor mag sustain, and then the defile/bleeds issues.

DKs have to spec for damage shields now, the meta is destro resto. Hell, I use a 2h for mobility else id be ripped in heavy.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Fossilized does damage, stuns you, roots you, can’t be blocked.

But it’s working as intended.

Lulz.

I mean that's exactly what the tooltip says, what's your point? You want to further gimp one of the least-used, least effective PvP classes out there?

Artemiisia

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Fossilized does damage, stuns you, roots you, can’t be blocked.

But it’s working as intended.

Lulz.

I mean that's exactly what the tooltip says, what's your point? You want to further gimp one of the least-used, least effective PvP classes out there?

Thats the problem, the tool tip did say many things on rune cage too, they removed 90% of it

now its time for DKs fossilize to get same treatment, since its the hardest hitting cc in the game now, and the cc that requires most resources to get away from

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

Artemiisia wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Fossilized does damage, stuns you, roots you, can’t be blocked.

But it’s working as intended.

Lulz.

I mean that's exactly what the tooltip says, what's your point? You want to further gimp one of the least-used, least effective PvP classes out there?

Thats the problem, the tool tip did say many things on rune cage too, they removed 90% of it

now its time for DKs fossilize to get same treatment, since its the hardest hitting cc in the game now, and the cc that requires most resources to get away from

Fossilize isn't a game changer for DKs the way rune cage was for sorcs. Fossilize is certainly useful, as it definitely is one of the strongest CCs in the game.

The problem with rune cage is that it synergized with the rest of the sorc's burst abilities and was bugged to prevent people (with max stam) from breaking free, and doing weird and buggy things with CC immunity that basically bypassed it, allowing one or more sorcs to spam RC on the same target with no CC immunity coming into effect. So basically, getting hit with a rune cage was a death sentence from a competent sorc who could line up the burst combo right. That had no counterplay, and was not fun. That's why it has been nerfed, to give every other class a fighting chance against sorcs.

You're just mad because now sorcs aren't god mode and you're trying to take that anger out on a class that already struggles tremendously in PvP. Get over yourself, deal with the nerf like an adult, and l2p.

Or, if you really think fossilize is OP and gives all DKs an upper hand in PvP, I'll give you the same suggestion I've given everyone else to take that stance - roll a DK, try to PvP, and realize that sorcs are still perfectly viable, and in some ways, still OP (looking at their execute and shields, primarily).

coplannb16_ESO

sorc <-> dk
effective range: 41m <-> 8m
hard CC: 5 sec stun <-> 3 sec stun
damage on stun versus short root
archetype: high delayed burst <-> no burst/DOT class (purge is your friend)
high mobility for offense AND defense (streak + on demand 8.x sec major expedition) <-> chains only useful on offense, no escape mechanism, only 6 sec speed if you hit a target by chains...
shield stacking <-> 10% better blocking than other classes
...
...
...
so um, yeah...

Feanor

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Fossilize being unblockable and undodgeable is fine. What's not fine is the immobilization attached to it, especially vs. magicka chars. But well, it's not a Sorc skill, so people will say it's absolutely ok.

It actually makes a lot of sense in the DK toolkit to have an immobilize attached to the skill. Our main spammable (whip) is dodgeable, and dodge rolling is the way to break out of an immobilize. If you blame it's effectiveness on mag toons, then you aren't building your character right. You should have AT LEAST 15k stam in any PvP situation, lower than that is l2p suicide. It's not broken, it's easy to counter as long as you have responsible management of your stamina.

This victim-mentality of sorcs is absolutely ridiculous. You have one of the most powerful burst combos in PvP that can be performed at range. You have an execute that does not need to be cast in execute range. You have incredibly powerful shields. You have one of the best class mobilities in game. DKs get one nice CC, no execute, weak DOTs, and objectively the most useless passives in the game. If you really think it's unfair, roll a magDK and play that for a while, you'll see how nice sorcs have it.

I run 16k stam in noCP, so your L2P comment clearly misses the point. You could take your own advice and try playing a Sorc in noCP. See where the most powerful burst combo in the game gets you and if you can kill anyone else than a potato. The incredibly powerful shields are also not really powerful there, and the class mobility comes with an in-built self root and costs an arm and a leg after subsequent casts (which you need to do because of no snare immunity and 15m range).

Oh, and zerg surfing doesn't count.

Gronk

The Nerfpocalypse needs to end. Go Main a Templar. I have mained one since beta. Then and now are two different classes. Templar feels like it is in a perma-debuff state.

Many posters on here have said be careful of what you ask for. And those who wanted to be squeaky meals are getting what you asked for now.

It is as if the Morrowind Chapter/DLC wakeup call was ignored by the players.

Prediction: Since that chapter release, we have had CP caps lifted. Players have adjusted and the Cap lifts have eased the burden people are back to not having to make the harsh choices that ESO is supposed to be about. Thus another round of raise the floor and lower the ceiling is due from the most munificent and all-seeing Lord Wrobel.

Normal dungeons are very easy, mechanics can be ignored with sheer DPS. Can you see where this is going? Rather than adjust the environment the players are adjusted.

ESO = Actions have consequences.
Nerfs are branching effects, and circular.
Beta Monkeys look at your class now. Look at what it was six years ago. Early access people do the same. Anyone who has played since 1.1.2 look at the image of what you were. Gutted out hollow shells of greatness. Destined to be reduced to the Aetheruis the same as the Aedra.

Next, it will be Morrowind revamp II but now with 500% moar nerf. Sheild management will be super easy since they will be removed.

Feanor

Gronk wrote: »

The Nerfpocalypse needs to end. Go Main a Templar. I have mained one since beta. Then and now are two different classes. Templar feels like it is in a perma-debuff state.

Many posters on here have said be careful of what you ask for. And those who wanted to be squeaky meals are getting what you asked for now.

It is as if the Morrowind Chapter/DLC wakeup call was ignored by the players.

Prediction: Since that chapter release, we have had CP caps lifted. Players have adjusted and the Cap lifts have eased the burden people are back to not having to make the harsh choices that ESO is supposed to be about. Thus another round of raise the floor and lower the ceiling is due from the most munificent and all-seeing Lord Wrobel.

Normal dungeons are very easy, mechanics can be ignored with sheer DPS. Can you see where this is going? Rather than adjust the environment the players are adjusted.

ESO = Actions have consequences.
Nerfs are branching effects, and circular.
Beta Monkeys look at your class now. Look at what it was six years ago. Early access people do the same. Anyone who has played since 1.1.2 look at the image of what you were. Gutted out hollow shells of greatness. Destined to be reduced to the Aetheruis the same as the Aedra.

Next, it will be Morrowind revamp II but now with 500% moar nerf. Sheild management will be super easy since they will be removed.

The question is if this is remaining a game I want to play still then. If the current path is followed with even more consequence I know for my part my ESO+ which I have kept since release now won’t be renewed.

Chilly-McFreeze

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

sorc <-> dk
effective range: 41m <-> 8m
hard CC: 5 sec stun <-> 3 sec stun
damage on stun versus short root
archetype: high delayed burst <-> no burst/DOT class (purge is your friend)
high mobility for offense AND defense (streak + on demand 8.x sec major expedition) <-> chains only useful on offense, no escape mechanism, only 6 sec speed if you hit a target by chains...
shield stacking <-> 10% better blocking than other classes
...
...
...
so um, yeah...

Not saying that DKs need a nerf, no, but which patch do you live in?
Rune Cage 5s stun + damage on stun? Do you even read patch notes?
41m range when near a keep, but nowhere else.
Nobody besides Templars can effectively use a purge, be it from mag costs (on stam toons) or due to bar space restrictions.
What stops a mDK from stacking Annulment/ Healing Ward? How many sorcs do you see triplstack anyway?

so um, yeah... thanks for trying.

Ender1310

You have to be in the enemy to cast it. Range matters. I can't believe you sorcs.

What_In_Tarnation

Enslaved wrote: »

Sure. Give us shieldstacking and give us 41m range on fossilize.

Imagine if they're going to nerf Fossilize and increase Fossilize's range. And then most of DK's class abilities are still melee range... It will be hilarious to see DK cc and run to its enemy for few seconds, then still can't land any whip cause your opponent has break free and run away lol

Ender1310

ak_pvp wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

also, for DKs screaming that Fossilize is a melee skill, and has too be used in melee.

WELL! The ENTIRE DK class in designed around melee. You have chains that can bring YOU too the sorc, or the sorc too you. You have the most relient and spammable roots in the game. You are kings of stand your ground PvP fighting WITH the most broken CC in the game.

But dont worry!


DKs are the worst players in this game, so they wont know what they even have before it's gone.

Foss with range was good for catching those escaping or being a defacto gap closer. It's a nice stun but the fact that chains is even needed is problematic.

You know that stand your ground isn't viable yes? And even less so on a MagDK, no fury like super high dmg sets, weaker weaves, low mobility no heavy for main stay regen, heavy is poor mag sustain, and then the defile/bleeds issues.

DKs have to spec for damage shields now, the meta is destro resto. Hell, I use a 2h for mobility else id be ripped in heavy.

I mean this. Stand your ground playstyle died really with sloads/stuns. You can no longer stand in heavy and heal/block. Its just not possible.

So that little DK with his zero mobility and negative range is sitting way worse then you. There is a reason you got nerfed. DEVS are usually right. They have millions of players and currently this is probably the best mmo out right now.

RANKK7

ZOS really should invest some time and resources to fix CC issues because it's totally *** up and really makes you wonder if they even know wtf are doing.

This isn't about range and the usual crap by people who like to compare Fossilize and fear with rune cage for their own agenda when the point is another one entirely (breaking free issue).

It's about BROKEN SKILLS because more than often they take FOREVER to BREAK FREE and even resources are drained sometimes without actually breaking free. THIS is what is wrong.

ZOS not being able to fix jack about CC apparently, what does?

they look for workarounds like in the case of rune cage (nerf damage, make dodgeable), well this is not the freaking point, though rune cage got a treatment at least, the other two are still there like all is alright and the problem too of course is still there: BREAKING FREE not working properly.

@ZOS please come out in case you aren't able to find a solution and say so, because right now you just seem to not know your your game (to say the least).

CyberSkooma

According to this forum, every CC ever is broken.

Try actually playing a DK in PvP and see that you don't get worked. Most of you complaining would.

Armatesz

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

sorc <-> dk
effective range: 41m <-> 8m
hard CC: 5 sec stun <-> 3 sec stun
damage on stun versus short root
archetype: high delayed burst <-> no burst/DOT class (purge is your friend)
high mobility for offense AND defense (streak + on demand 8.x sec major expedition) <-> chains only useful on offense, no escape mechanism, only 6 sec speed if you hit a target by chains...
shield stacking <-> 10% better blocking than other classes
...
...
...
so um, yeah...

Not saying that DKs need a nerf, no, but which patch do you live in?
Rune Cage 5s stun + damage on stun? Do you even read patch notes?
41m range when near a keep, but nowhere else.
Nobody besides Templars can effectively use a purge, be it from mag costs (on stam toons) or due to bar space restrictions.
What stops a mDK from stacking Annulment/ Healing Ward? How many sorcs do you see triplstack anyway?

so um, yeah... thanks for trying.

If I have to guess they are likely console as we are still on 5 seconds for that

NobleX35

I’ve had an issue with fossilize since before the rune-cage changes were implemented, although that issue was over-shadowed by rune-cage. I agree that this skill needs to be changed, because it literally requires no skill. I not care for the fact that their is no counter to this skill since it can’t be blocked or dodged; however, my biggest issue with this skill is the fact that it greys out and prevents the caster from using it when a target has CC immunity. This aspect is completey broken...if the caster is too careless to pay attention to the white rings around a players feet to know whether or not the target has CC immunity, then they should be punished by consuming their magicka pool. The skill shouldnt just pop back up against a target whos CC immunity has worn off letting the caster know that it is not time to stun...that literally requires no skill.

Finviuswe

Fossilize is fine as is. It's a pretty standard cc. I've died because of it before and yet somehow I don't want to see the skill die

I am not a big fan of the dk class compared to other classes, I think fossilize is not a problemo just like how rune cage was not a problemo and then it was nerfed when that nerf probably was avoidable

Asardes

Compared to Rune Cage it's balanced ATM since works only in melee range so even if you can't dodge it outright, you can still get out of the cone quite easily by dodging sideways or simply stay 8 m or more away from the DK. So I don't see any reason to nerf it.

Enslaved

What_In_Tarnation wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Sure. Give us shieldstacking and give us 41m range on fossilize.

Imagine if they're going to nerf Fossilize and increase Fossilize's range. And then most of DK's class abilities are still melee range... It will be hilarious to see DK cc and run to its enemy for few seconds, then still can't land any whip cause your opponent has break free and run away lol

Id swap to range then, spamming snipe and playing Xv1 like 99% of sorcs

jcm2606

Stop with the nerfs. Stop crying because Sorc had a broken tool within its kit nerfed, the rest of your kit remains one of the strongest, if not the strongest in the game.

DK needs some form of hard CC to be effective. Sorc really doesn't, soft CC can do.

• Most of DK's damage comes from dot's, most of Sorc's damage comes from delayed burst and auto executes: DK needs a hard CC to avoid people just straight purging or healing through the dot's before they've all been stacked up, Sorc doesn't have to worry about that nearly as much.
• All of the DK kit is within melee range, with inconsistent ranges on individual abilities, while every single offensive skill within the Sorc kit can be used at max range (36 meters with Battle Spirit, 45 meters when near a keep or resource): DK needs some form of soft CC otherwise a target can just walk backwards and suddenly none of the DK's attacks are hitting, Sorc doesn't need to worry about that at all.
• DK has the worst mobility in the game, while Sorc has some of the best: DK needs a soft CC at least in order to even stand a chance within a fight, especially Magicka DK.

Rune Cage was a broken skill (figuratively and literally) on an already very strong class, let alone a class that doesn't necessarily need a hard CC to be effective. Fossilize, hell even the base morph, Petrify, is a strong skill that, on paper, looks stronger than the old Rune Cage, but when you look at the rest of the kit, it is a skill that is necessary for DK to be competitive.

EDIT: And just to clarify before any Sorc's lose their mind: I personally think Zenimax needs to revert all changes to Rune Cage, fix the damn break free, then revisit it. I also think that piling these nerfs -- damage, dodgeable, and now duration -- is not the way to go about it. My only point is Rune Cage is not necessary on Sorc the same way Petrify/Fossilize is on DK, so comparing them like this is like comparing apples to oranges. You have to look at the whole class, not just individual skills.

antihero727

Zodiac_ wrote: »

#buffmagsorcs

SorcLivesMatter2018!!!