[Class Rep] Warden Feedback Thread

_Ahala_ · August 2018

Wolfpaw wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Passives

Flourish
Old: Increase your Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery by 12% if an Animal Companion ability is slotted
New: Increase your Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery by 12%

Piercing Cold
Old: Increase your Magic and Frost Damage by 6%
New: Light and Heavy Attacks deal 20% extra damage to targets below 25%.

That piercing cold rework looks like a another nerf to magden... if that were in addition to the current passive then maybe... but it would still be a bit underwhelming

New: Light and Heavy Attacks deal 20% extra damage to targets below 25%, and additional 100% to Chilled targets.

100%-300%, maybe increases based on health remaining?

Now that would be an impressive passive... would rather see that effect added to the glacial presence passive though instead of replacing piercing cold... removing 6% mag and ice damage from magden would really hurt

Xerge · August 2018

+1 to changing pet skins. This game is so [profanity removed] dry and then you look what you can buy for crowns.

Clearly no thought was placed unto the 'player fun' category.

werzui · August 2018

1. Wardens need a class CC!
2. they need some more frost damage, maybe make screaming cliffracer and deep fissure deal frost damage instead of magic damage.
3. do something with arctic blast, this skill is useless from my pov, (maybe incrase damage and make the heal scale off your magicka instad of health or something)!
4. the bear needs some rework, this skill is too underwhelming for an ult that you need to doublebar.

werzui · August 2018

i post this idea here because it fits with the warden cryomancer theme:

i have an idea with making ice staves viable as dps instead of tanking (just create a new weaponskill tree for magTanks alredy);

passiv effects of using destro staves:

firestaves = more singletarget dps
shockstaves = more AoE dps
and for froststaves = instead of buffing blocking while holding this type of staff maybe add more crit damage for its passive or make it crit more often at chilled enemys or something ?!
btw, remove the taunt from Frost HA and maybe add something else instead but i think the shield you get from HA using a frost staff should be enought.

just my idea for froststaves, i mean this type of weapons are called DESTRUCTION -staves after all so they should have to do with dealing damage in their own elemental way!

just a silly idea out of my frozen brain

werzui · August 2018

with the psijic skill "mend wounds", ZoS showed us that a toggle skill does not always needs to be double slotted, like u could activate it one the backbar and it still was active on the frontbar, were it wasn't slotted.
sure i think they changed it but it shows that its possible for toggle abilitys to be active on just one bar, so why not just change this on the bear so we only need to have it on one bar?
btw , im totally fine that sorcs need to doubleslot their pets, cause it would be kinda op if they get thoose free slots and since the bear is an ult, it would justify it if the bear can be slotted on one bar and still be avtive on the other, where it isn't slotted.

p.s. sorry for my poor english in this and my posts above

OtarTheMad · August 2018

werzui wrote: »

1. Wardens need a class CC!
2. they need some more frost damage, maybe make screaming cliffracer and deep fissure deal frost damage instead of magic damage.
3. do something with arctic blast, this skill is useless from my pov, (maybe incrase damage and make the heal scale off your magicka instad of health or something)!
4. the bear needs some rework, this skill is too underwhelming for an ult that you need to doublebar.

I agree. It would be interesting if they made Cliffracer and Deep Fissure deal frost damage but what if they kept the magic damage and added (somehow) a chilled effect to the abilities, for example: making the next frost attack deal a % more damage maybe or making it where if the target is off balance then the cliffracer turns into a frozen cliffracer and deals frost damage (similar to DK lash or Sorc instant frag proc)

Arctic Blast is sad, they should maybe take away the heal for this morph completely and rework it as a DPS skill. Kind of like Blizzard or Ice Storm from Skyrim. Or they could boost the damage, put in a stun or off balance and have it return some magicka instead of healing you.

As for Ice staff, yes... it should be what it was, for DPS. It was more of a defensive DPS but it worked. Someone had a great idea of bringing in an Alteration Staff weapon line for tanking. Would be worth looking into since that school of magic does have a good amount of mage armor buffs and "tank" like abilities.

Akgurd · August 2018

Whatever you guys ask for, please leave my Arctic Blast alone.

It’s a wonderful burst heal both in PvE/PvP with minor maim spamming capability.

werzui · August 2018

Akgurd wrote: »

Whatever you guys ask for, please leave my Arctic Blast alone.

It’s a wonderful burst heal both in PvE/PvP with minor maim spamming capability.

Easy Fix for that:

Make the base Morph of this skill (forgott the name) deal Frostdamage, scaling off your max. Healt + the Healeffect that it alredy has.

One Morph gets the Ally Heal while the other (Arctic Blast) scales off max. Magicka instead off Health

just a thougth

Akgurd · August 2018

werzui wrote: »

Akgurd wrote: »

Whatever you guys ask for, please leave my Arctic Blast alone.

It’s a wonderful burst heal both in PvE/PvP with minor maim spamming capability.

Easy Fix for that:

Make the base Morph of this skill (forgott the name) deal Frostdamage, scaling off your max. Healt + the Healeffect that it alredy has.

One Morph gets the Ally Heal while the other (Arctic Blast) scales off max. Magicka instead off Health

just a thougth

I can happily live with that.

But all the seriousness, heal from arctic blast is super underrated on the forum. With the right cp allocation and moderate base health, crit burst heal of this skill can easily go over 10k in Cyrodiil(20k+ in PvE).
It’s one of the most cost efficient heal + CC + debuff in the game.

Combined with our native access to defile, health based damages, and crowd control capabilities, warden tank is a quite strong roamer/group contributor in Cyrodiil.

Integral1900 · August 2018

1 animations for the death pigeon and the shalks are aweful, soooo dull with no feeling of connection what so ever, I saw the original burrowing beast version of deep fissure and that was so awesome you could have sold the chapter to me on that alone

2 way to many buffs adding to a lack of identity that plagues this class

3 they make great tanks and good healers (but for god sake teach people what a cone heal is!!!!) the dps can spike quite high but it requires far to much faffing around with a bar load of seemingly random timers, overall I think the main reason they struggle in pve is it just takes too much thought. Most players can’t spare the attention to manage all those effects as well as avoid dungeon one-shot mechanics... if you don’t believe me just join a pug and watch...

4 the bear..... I’m not going to rant, even though I want to, so I will just say this. I kept a record of 100 times the bear needed to be re-spawned (eternal guardian is such a fake) out of all those times only three were because of the enemy, the rest were 32 times when it got stuck in the ceiling and just switched off, the remainder were cases where I didn’t see what happened but only realised later that the stupid thing was gone. Aincent elf ruins are realy bad for this

5 ice dps remains a dream, thaumaturge doesn’t work on most of the class ice skills being the main culprit, I don’t mind the taunt though as it means my mdk doesn’t need to slot a skill for it

MLGProPlayer · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

All those sweet changes to magicka warden.. my initial reservations in regards to pvp magicka warden not being represented by any rep are blown away.

This is not aimed to belittle @Masel92 and his efforts, I'm sure he and the others did what they could. But honestly, there couldn't be any less outcome of this program so far for magicka wardens, especially pvp.

@Masel92
Could you give an honest reply on how you perceive ZOS thinking about those issues:
Does ZOS refuse to spend time talking about magicka warden or are they open to give such discussions at least the same space as for other classes with back and forth debating and insights being developed?
Do you feel they aknowledge the class having severe issues that have to be approached in timely manner?
Are you confident that we are on the right track with the mag warden program compared to other classes and their respective issues?

Hope you find the time to answer one or two of those questions, thanks in advance.

If you read the document from the June meeting and if you read the new document coming out from our Friday meeting you will notice that we (and by we I mean I) emphasised multiple times that wardens feel left out and that they need changes. We told them specifically that it would be disappointing if nothing happens.

What the devs do with our information is not in our hands. I can understand why you were disappointed, I think the class needs a rework to become more interesting...

Thing is: the meetings were mostly us talking and them asking questions about specific things. So we don't know their stance on all issues that are out there, but we definitely emphasised more than once that classes need more unique utility.

I don't doubt your efforts. Wrobel just has a pathalogical hatred towards this class. He must really hate the person who created it and is doing this out of spite.

Or maybe he derives some sort of sick pleasure from ignoring our feedback and watching us struggle for over a year.

MLGProPlayer · August 2018

Just going to reiterate magicka DPS pain points:

- Warden is the ONLY class that needs to slot a destruction staff skill on both bars (in order to proc destruction staff padsives) since they CANNOT USE the destruction staff ultimate (using destro ultimate instead of the bear puts them at nearly 10k DPS behind the other magicka classes). This severely limits their skill choices (they're essentially wasting one ability slot).

- The class has NO BUFFS OR DEBUFFS attached to its DPS abilities. Warden damage skills only deal damage. Since warden has the lowest DPS of any class, there is no reason to use them in endgame content in this role. They need a way to compensate for their lack of damage.

- The eternal guardian morph does not do ANYTHING. It just auto-casts the ability for you, which isn't a benefit of any kind since the cast is free anyway (all it does is interrupt you when you don't want it to).

- Warden AOE timers don't match up with elemental blockade, making their rotation unnecessarily difficult (with no payoff, considering their extremely low DPS).

There is a reason why warden representation on leader boards is less than 3% while all the other classes are over 20%.

Olquorron · August 2018

I think converting existing magicka warden skill morphs (cliff racer, shalks, etc.) to deal frost damage is an excellent idea -- we don't have to re-invent the wheel to make mag warden relevant for PvP with its own "niche," bringing something unique to groups: we already are unique in that we have some class passives that make frost damage worthwhile for us where it might not be for other classes.

That being said, I think the class frost passives should be extended to *all* forms of frost damage, not just class abilities: it should apply to destro as well. That would help give us more of a fighting chance in PvP, where magden is already really struggling after the shalk nerf (and our only execute possibility as magden is to devote an ulti to this purpose, when our best class ulti for PvP is already very expensive).

Another thing: cliff racer "buff" removing the delay was actually a *nerf*. Our class specialises in damage combos -- stamina warden can land some excellent combos using a 2H skill, etc. The previous delay on cliff racer allowed us to land multiple skills at the same time, which was really difficult to do but very rewarding when it worked out. Now, we can't easily do this after the cliff racer timing nerf.

Finally, re-working the frost destro passives (which nobody, nobody tries to use in PVE) to be more useful in PvP would be excellent for magden. The use of magicka to block *is* really good, and under-utilised, so it would mostly be changing the damage shield to something more practical and adding some additional useful stuff.

Oathunbound · August 2018

well i can only comment form a pve perspective on mag wardens so here they are

1. Sustain. On my wag warden sustain on a long fight becomes a issue if i don't use spell symmetry and if no one is applying magckia steal to the boss (i slot it on boss fights if the healer does not have/use it), but even with crafted potions it still gets to a point where i just plain run out of magicka. The only thing i can think of that can help is buffing the betty to restore more mag overtime or have it function like siphoning strikes and do a burst restore at the end of the duration (but the effect doesn't start until 5-6 secs since it has no cost).

2. Overall dps dependence on the bear ult. I guess this is a combo issue as it sucks we are reliant on the bear for good dps and it takes up 2 slots to keep it out at all times (as said many times so far). Also the fact the morphs for the bear are pretty much meh. Sure the swap to stam damage is ok but it offers nothing extra as many other class morphs do when skills morph from mag to stam, and the mag version is kinda ok for the free resurrection but the fact that it has a cool down and during certain boss fights the bear drops multiple times in a row too quickly forcing us to re summon him interrupting our dps. I honestly think tho if you have it just be able to summon on one bar and it stays out even if we bar swap that would be enough to make the bear a very potent skill to have and give us the option to have a second ult to use.

PS personally i think the P2W crowd is also keeping the warden from getting any real love. I don't want to see wardens buffed to mega op status but if they are at least within spitting distance of being on par with other mag/ranged dps specs then i think all will find that acceptable.

PSS also wardens healing is fairly decent at this point. don't really have any complaints from that point

werzui · August 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

All those sweet changes to magicka warden.. my initial reservations in regards to pvp magicka warden not being represented by any rep are blown away.

This is not aimed to belittle @Masel92 and his efforts, I'm sure he and the others did what they could. But honestly, there couldn't be any less outcome of this program so far for magicka wardens, especially pvp.

@Masel92
Could you give an honest reply on how you perceive ZOS thinking about those issues:
Does ZOS refuse to spend time talking about magicka warden or are they open to give such discussions at least the same space as for other classes with back and forth debating and insights being developed?
Do you feel they aknowledge the class having severe issues that have to be approached in timely manner?
Are you confident that we are on the right track with the mag warden program compared to other classes and their respective issues?

Hope you find the time to answer one or two of those questions, thanks in advance.

If you read the document from the June meeting and if you read the new document coming out from our Friday meeting you will notice that we (and by we I mean I) emphasised multiple times that wardens feel left out and that they need changes. We told them specifically that it would be disappointing if nothing happens.

What the devs do with our information is not in our hands. I can understand why you were disappointed, I think the class needs a rework to become more interesting...

Thing is: the meetings were mostly us talking and them asking questions about specific things. So we don't know their stance on all issues that are out there, but we definitely emphasised more than once that classes need more unique utility.

I don't doubt your efforts. Wrobel just has a pathalogical hatred towards this class. He must really hate the person who created it and is doing this out of spite.

Or maybe he derives some sort of sick pleasure from ignoring our feedback and watching us struggle for over a year.

Im not sure that Wrobel really hates the Warden, i think more that this dude is plain stupid and has absolutely no clue how to balance things out!

I could rant more about this Guy but Bottomline is, that this Dude, this Wrobel needs to get fired so hard that he never gets a Job again, cause he is like the most obvious Cancer which plagues this Game so much!

MLGProPlayer · August 2018

Oathunbound wrote: »

the mag version is kinda ok for the free resurrection

Resurrecting the bear is always free. The morph is 100% useless.

Ragnarock41 · August 2018

JobooAGS wrote: »

Why not give wardens minor courage?

yes because they obviously need access to every named buff/debuff in this game right?

Eh, to be serious I don't think that would solve anything.

Oathunbound · August 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Oathunbound wrote: »

the mag version is kinda ok for the free resurrection

Resurrecting the bear is always free. The morph is 100% useless.

Yes the summoning is free but it has a 2 sec casting time that can interrupt dps rotations only to have the bear die 5 sec later and have to do it again. The mag morph lets the bear "ignore" a death just by getting stunned for a sec or 2 then getting full health and going right back into the fight without having to to the animation again. The problem with the morph tho is that when it dies a cool down triggers for 1min preventing the bear from ignoring death again, making him die then having to bring him back. That's my problem with the morph, on one had the concept is good, a pet that never dies so you don't have to worry about its position and just let it be, but since it has a cool down its made mostly irrelevant since pets can die frequently and the cool down is way too long.

JobooAGS · August 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Why not give wardens minor courage?

yes because they obviously need access to every named buff/debuff in this game right?

Eh, to be serious I don't think that would solve anything.

I mainly suggested it to give an incentive for pve trial wardens to have a spot in group

Amdar_Godkiller · August 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Why not give wardens minor courage?

yes because they obviously need access to every named buff/debuff in this game right?

Eh, to be serious I don't think that would solve anything.

Ah, the Nightblade approach to class design... Wait isn't using NIghtblade as a model for class design exactly what class reps said needs to be done rather than nerfing nightblade?

Tasear · August 2018

Don't forget to use app to share concerns! It makes lovely pie chart!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfXy_L7LW4Xa2rpwdV7_tEY4NonFdI6yIyI4zSK6J6uZWXhxA/viewform

Sleep724 · August 2018

Question. Does resurrecting the bear proc the balrogh set?

MLGProPlayer · August 2018

Oathunbound wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Oathunbound wrote: »

the mag version is kinda ok for the free resurrection

Resurrecting the bear is always free. The morph is 100% useless.

Yes the summoning is free but it has a 2 sec casting time that can interrupt dps rotations only to have the bear die 5 sec later and have to do it again. The mag morph lets the bear "ignore" a death just by getting stunned for a sec or 2 then getting full health and going right back into the fight without having to to the animation again. The problem with the morph tho is that when it dies a cool down triggers for 1min preventing the bear from ignoring death again, making him die then having to bring him back. That's my problem with the morph, on one had the concept is good, a pet that never dies so you don't have to worry about its position and just let it be, but since it has a cool down its made mostly irrelevant since pets can die frequently and the cool down is way too long.

It doesn't always bypass the animation though.

I'm not sure if they've fixed that bug/behaviour though as I haven't done any content where it dies frequently in a while.

MLGProPlayer · August 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Why not give wardens minor courage?

yes because they obviously need access to every named buff/debuff in this game right?

Eh, to be serious I don't think that would solve anything.

DPS wardens don't have a single buff in their kit. They need to attach some of those buffs to the class' DPS skills.

MooseKnuckles88 · August 2018

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Why not give wardens minor courage?

yes because they obviously need access to every named buff/debuff in this game right?

Eh, to be serious I don't think that would solve anything.

Ah, the Nightblade approach to class design... Wait isn't using NIghtblade as a model for class design exactly what class reps said needs to be done rather than nerfing nightblade?

I'm hopeful that something might actually happen for buffing wardens once I saw the new notes coming in.

Wardens have a ton of potential (like most classes) only wardens are the most gimped of every class in dps. Hopefully we'll get a snare, a better self buff, and an option to give the bear a break.

Xerge · August 2018

I just want to know which goofball thought refreshing two 20 second buffs is fun gameplay. Well okay, 25 seconds and 20. Nevermind trying to do vMA because then you have to throw in a third buff usually like vines.

It's just not FUN.

I have the biggest love/hate relationship with this game. SO MUCH POTENTIAL FOR FUN!

Like come on, why can't my light attacks refresh the duration of my short duration self buffs?

PLEASE FOR THE SAKE OF HAVING FUN. GAMES ARE MEANT TO BE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On another note; I love the bear but he has an aggressive attitude in blackheart haven. You can't dress up as pirate without bearbear charging at the hounds while you sneak up to the boss.

holy shitballs

Enzym3 · August 2018

From a PVP perspective, I love both the stam and mag versions i have created...

But the worst thing is not having a class stun - cutting dive morph becomes stun if target is casting/channelling ability for 3 secs or fissure/sub assault regains stun

to try and tie this into just 2 points is very hard but overall i feel both stam and mag class have little for dps options including a double bar bear which i would love to use on 1 bar (the respawning morph is kinda useless apart from 1v1 situation in my opinion)

So i guess I'm asking for

1 - class stun

2 - More dps options on both classes, mag really reallllly falls down here with the frost buff although i feel both need work.

EDIT: maybe cutting dive would be better introduced as class specific execute - morph reduces base damage and adds % damage to enemies under 50% health.

Facefister · August 2018

minor fracture/breach for the bird

Eigh1_Puppies · August 2018

My biggest problem with this class is the Mag Warden. It is well known that this class does not have nearly the same kind of damage output as ANY other class. I'm not an expert, so I don't know what could specifically improve this, but the fact that it is so well known that the Mag Warden is BY FAR the worst DPS class is depressing considering the you actually have to buy Morrowind to even have the class. Very underwhelming.

Second, one of the biggest hypes about the warden was the potential for an Ice Damage DPS style. You have fire with the DK, Mag with the Knight blade and Templar, and Lightning with the Sorc. Ice is completely irreverent in the game, yet there is so much potential. It would be amazing to see more variety in elemental DPS, and the Warden has the highest potential to do that.

Thank you for the consideration.

Zardayne · August 2018

Perhaps they need to take artic blast and make it like the old City of Heroes hurricane skill that when activated knocked back enemies nearby (which would give us clothie magden some CC and room to breathe), a hot heal, and tack on a nasty DOT that would be detrimental to cross it. The DOT would have to be decent, not the crap on it now. The animation of the skill would need to be redone too. It looks half-assed now.

Here's the old hurricane CC in action. I used to use it to protect other squishies by hovering overhead.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=zOSsp_Yed9g