More transparency about dmg in dungeon?

Bobby_V_Rockit · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

As a console player, I WOULD like to know what my own DPS looks like in a dungeon or trial, but dont want it public information, if I know, I can improve, if others know, I’ll probably be blocked lol.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

???? Does not make sense, but ok. I guess I must take into account the @name since that probably puts comments into perspective.

Right, you made a claim, I demand visual proof, you can’t provide it and question why I demand proof.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

???? Does not make sense, but ok. I guess I must take into account the @name since that probably puts comments into perspective.

Still waiting for your proof man. It’s a week now.

Salvas_Aren · July 2018

Don’t know / care

I don't care for group DPS.

For me as a mainly healDD sustain and total speed count. Neither needs to be perfect, I'm fine with both being decent. I always get angry when guild mates tell me they get ditched half through a dungeon for another DD who claims to have like 10% more DPS.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

I don't care for group DPS.

For me as a mainly healDD sustain and total speed count. Neither needs to be perfect, I'm fine with both being decent. I always get angry when guild mates tell me they get ditched half through a dungeon for another DD who claims to have like 10% more DPS.

Your 10% is not defined clearly.
Which is true about ‘10%’
1. Your friend does 20k, replacement does 22k
2. Your friend was doing 30% group dps, replacement doing 40%

crjs1 · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

Would be toxic. More toxic than vet dungeons and trials already are.

idk · July 2018

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

???? Does not make sense, but ok. I guess I must take into account the @name since that probably puts comments into perspective.

Right, you made a claim, I demand visual proof, you can’t provide it and question why I demand proof.

I made no claim. LOL. You clearly made that up. Thx for trying.

If you are questioning if it is possible, go to 18:08 of this video to see 70k breached in a boss fight. I can only assume you doubt anyone can reach those numbers since I clearly made no statement of the DPS I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS9g0Sz4mL8&list=PLWqnQ2EfnFBh1HccJfwDo8JVfaMvg8vSl&index=1

Salvas_Aren · July 2018

Don’t know / care

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

I don't care for group DPS.

For me as a mainly healDD sustain and total speed count. Neither needs to be perfect, I'm fine with both being decent. I always get angry when guild mates tell me they get ditched half through a dungeon for another DD who claims to have like 10% more DPS.

Your 10% is not defined clearly.
Which is true about ‘10%’
1. Your friend does 20k, replacement does 22k
2. Your friend was doing 30% group dps, replacement doing 40%

I did not define it clearly, because he was not even told. So he could not tell me.

Neither did he know whether this 'measurements' where made in the same dungeon or under otherwise compairable conditions, or under lab conditions on a dummy, or on a bunch of mudcrabs.

ZOS_GregoryV · July 2018

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of posts, we must remind everyone that all posts are to be kept civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

AdicusDio · July 2018

Problem with dps meters is they are not the end-all to determining anything, and for whatever reason tanks seem to be obsessed with what the dps is doing anymore. As long as mobs get burned quickly, the rest doesn't matter as most bosses are mechanics/routine/repeat. DPS meters also favor the person standing in one spot and not being bothered vs. the person roll dodging out of the way from attacks, stopping to skirt adds, having to deal with mechanics that a tank/healer doesn't have to worry about, waiting for their stam to regen, etc.. If dps has to stop attacking boss to kill it's orbs/adds/etc. it'll technically hurt their dps meter number.

If dps 1 has a decent aoe that constantly stays on the target while they constantly drop a lot of lower damage ticks that hit boss/adds but dps 2 has to run around picking off adds (while wasting resources if healer isn't dropping stam snacks on the ground) that aren't getting chained to the tank and using a ton of single-target damage abilities, the group meter will skew heavily to dps 1 despite the fact dps 2 might be dropping MUCH higher damage attacks. Also, If dps 1 is doing 8k tick damage per target in an aoe attack on mob but the other dps is doing 30k per hit single-target, it'll again skew heavily to dps 1.

I would fall under the dps 2 category above. I can see total group dps on my cmx meter, and my percentage on that meter. I can do bigger single-target damage but the meter always skews towards the magika dps that's dropping a bunch of tick damage. I actually find that the more dps I'm doing (on the meter) the harder it is to maintain as I'm the one carrying at that point and if I get into the 65% range, it's usually lower cp from a random grouping not doing enough on their end. If running with a strong magika dps that has unlimited ticks to drop everywhere, it's much easier for me to burn stuff, even if my meter is technically showing less than 50% of total damage is coming from me.

I've tweaked my build endlessly and can do strong single-target damage but I can't stand in one place like those dummy targets and just relentlessly run a routine when adds, ranged fire attacks, people needing to be rezed constantly, etc. are needing to be handled, so my actual meter will always skew, especially if the other dps never stops to rez or never runs low on resources or has big aoe tick damage (think one of their ults can wipe most mobs faster than anything I can use; caltrops and EH only do so much and unless there is a mob, semi-wasted). Under that pretense, some pretentious player will think I'm not carrying my weight despite the fact I might have been averaging 1.1 to 1.2m per minute and not actually attacking the entire time. THAT is why those meters showing a legit recap are frowned upon. Stick to holding aggro and let dps do their thing.

LadyNalcarya · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

AdicusDio wrote: »

Problem with dps meters is they are not the end-all to determining anything, and for whatever reason tanks seem to be obsessed with what the dps is doing anymore. As long as mobs get burned quickly, the rest doesn't matter as most bosses are mechanics/routine/repeat. DPS meters also favor the person standing in one spot and not being bothered vs. the person roll dodging out of the way from attacks, stopping to skirt adds, having to deal with mechanics that a tank/healer doesn't have to worry about, waiting for their stam to regen, etc.. If dps has to stop attacking boss to kill it's orbs/adds/etc. it'll technically hurt their dps meter number.

If dps 1 has a decent aoe that constantly stays on the target while they constantly drop a lot of lower damage ticks that hit boss/adds but dps 2 has to run around picking off adds (while wasting resources if healer isn't dropping stam snacks on the ground) that aren't getting chained to the tank and using a ton of single-target damage abilities, the group meter will skew heavily to dps 1 despite the fact dps 2 might be dropping MUCH higher damage attacks. Also, If dps 1 is doing 8k tick damage per target in an aoe attack on mob but the other dps is doing 30k per hit single-target, it'll again skew heavily to dps 1.

I would fall under the dps 2 category above. I can see total group dps on my cmx meter, and my percentage on that meter. I can do bigger single-target damage but the meter always skews towards the magika dps that's dropping a bunch of tick damage. I actually find that the more dps I'm doing (on the meter) the harder it is to maintain as I'm the one carrying at that point and if I get into the 65% range, it's usually lower cp from a random grouping not doing enough on their end. If running with a strong magika dps that has unlimited ticks to drop everywhere, it's much easier for me to burn stuff, even if my meter is technically showing less than 50% of total damage is coming from me.

I've tweaked my build endlessly and can do strong single-target damage but I can't stand in one place like those dummy targets and just relentlessly run a routine when adds, ranged fire attacks, people needing to be rezed constantly, etc. are needing to be handled, so my actual meter will always skew, especially if the other dps never stops to rez or never runs low on resources or has big aoe tick damage (think one of their ults can wipe most mobs faster than anything I can use; caltrops and EH only do so much and unless there is a mob, semi-wasted). Under that pretense, some pretentious player will think I'm not carrying my weight despite the fact I might have been averaging 1.1 to 1.2m per minute and not actually attacking the entire time. THAT is why those meters showing a legit recap are frowned upon. Stick to holding aggro and let dps do their thing.

Its not a problem with dps meters, things like combat metrics, ftc etc show single-target numbers and allow you to post boss dps and total dps.

The problem is not when dps are doing their thing, its when they are not doing it. Tanks are the most vulnerable category in this situation, because a dd can carry another dd if they want to and even a healer can add some dps. Tanks cannot do that.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

???? Does not make sense, but ok. I guess I must take into account the @name since that probably puts comments into perspective.

Right, you made a claim, I demand visual proof, you can’t provide it and question why I demand proof.

I made no claim. LOL. You clearly made that up. Thx for trying.

If you are questioning if it is possible, go to 18:08 of this video to see 70k breached in a boss fight. I can only assume you doubt anyone can reach those numbers since I clearly made no statement of the DPS I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS9g0Sz4mL8&list=PLWqnQ2EfnFBh1HccJfwDo8JVfaMvg8vSl&index=1

You said you don’t even need 60k group dps to do vbrf hm. How is this proof of ‘don’t need 60k’ and how is this brf? Cut your bs already. If you can’t provide proof on ‘sub 60k group dps can do brf hm’ you should just say you are wrong.

Kuramas9tails · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

I would like to see my own DPS percentage during an entire dungeon run or on bosses bosses.

ZeroXFF · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

AdicusDio wrote: »

Problem with dps meters is they are not the end-all to determining anything, and for whatever reason tanks seem to be obsessed with what the dps is doing anymore. As long as mobs get burned quickly, the rest doesn't matter as most bosses are mechanics/routine/repeat. DPS meters also favor the person standing in one spot and not being bothered vs. the person roll dodging out of the way from attacks, stopping to skirt adds, having to deal with mechanics that a tank/healer doesn't have to worry about, waiting for their stam to regen, etc.. If dps has to stop attacking boss to kill it's orbs/adds/etc. it'll technically hurt their dps meter number.

If dps 1 has a decent aoe that constantly stays on the target while they constantly drop a lot of lower damage ticks that hit boss/adds but dps 2 has to run around picking off adds (while wasting resources if healer isn't dropping stam snacks on the ground) that aren't getting chained to the tank and using a ton of single-target damage abilities, the group meter will skew heavily to dps 1 despite the fact dps 2 might be dropping MUCH higher damage attacks. Also, If dps 1 is doing 8k tick damage per target in an aoe attack on mob but the other dps is doing 30k per hit single-target, it'll again skew heavily to dps 1.

I would fall under the dps 2 category above. I can see total group dps on my cmx meter, and my percentage on that meter. I can do bigger single-target damage but the meter always skews towards the magika dps that's dropping a bunch of tick damage. I actually find that the more dps I'm doing (on the meter) the harder it is to maintain as I'm the one carrying at that point and if I get into the 65% range, it's usually lower cp from a random grouping not doing enough on their end. If running with a strong magika dps that has unlimited ticks to drop everywhere, it's much easier for me to burn stuff, even if my meter is technically showing less than 50% of total damage is coming from me.

I've tweaked my build endlessly and can do strong single-target damage but I can't stand in one place like those dummy targets and just relentlessly run a routine when adds, ranged fire attacks, people needing to be rezed constantly, etc. are needing to be handled, so my actual meter will always skew, especially if the other dps never stops to rez or never runs low on resources or has big aoe tick damage (think one of their ults can wipe most mobs faster than anything I can use; caltrops and EH only do so much and unless there is a mob, semi-wasted). Under that pretense, some pretentious player will think I'm not carrying my weight despite the fact I might have been averaging 1.1 to 1.2m per minute and not actually attacking the entire time. THAT is why those meters showing a legit recap are frowned upon. Stick to holding aggro and let dps do their thing.

Your argument would have merit if we assumed that people are blind and aren't looking at anything but the numbers. People see who is ressing, who is doing the mechanics etc. But if the person who does both the ressing and the mechanics also does most of the DPS, that number starts to have some meaning besides looking pretty. And if things are NOT going as well as you describe (because nobody kicks anyone if they are), it would be easier to identify the culprit.

And in addition to that, when I just leveled my first DD (I played as only a tank for a long time), I would have loved to see what DPS numbers people get. I didn't know if my 10k DPS was ok or completely useless, and whether the DPS people said they did was even true, or if it was measured under some weird conditions that would make our numbers not comparable. It's not as easy to tell from the %, how much of that damage is actually done by the other DD, and how much is done by the tank or healer, either or both of whom could have a hybrid build that could skew the numbers by as much as 30-40k. And it's especially not easy when you're as inexperienced as I was back then. Without that information it took me way longer to realize that there is a problem than it had to.

NordSwordnBoard · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

I'd just like my own, as a text or mail, after the dungeon group disbands or like 5 minutes after the boss dies.

With your friends, you could get a friendly competition, and for randoms - you'd need to get 2 of the other's numbers to single out one person. You'd have to ask for it, and what obligation does one have to last dungeon's group?

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

I would like to see my own DPS percentage during an entire dungeon run or on bosses bosses.

Malacthulhu · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

It would be nice if they added extra rewards based off preformance, don't ask me how that would and I mean for healer and tank as well. This might lead to people comparing and helping others byt, could also be abused causing people to just instantly punt whoever. It is definitally a double edge sword, maybe a toggle option for people who want to share the info and the ability for a person to see it regardless as they go.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

crjs1 wrote: »

Would be toxic. More toxic than vet dungeons and trials already are.

Toxic is expecting to be carried.

If it's really that bad then the game isn't teaching people correctly and that's a game issue. Then again, this game has allways been complicated as friggin' balls on a DPS front.

Hulda · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

I'd like DPS meters like in WOW, don't really see why that should be a problem. It would prevent low CP players who pull their weight getting kicked because some high CP non-meta special snowflake can't pull 15k DPS.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

Hulda wrote: »

I'd like DPS meters like in WOW, don't really see why that should be a problem. It would prevent low CP players who pull their weight getting kicked because some high CP non-meta special snowflake can't pull 15k DPS.

Yeah high cp potato are worst. They mastered the art of being carried.

Salvas_Aren · July 2018

Don’t know / care

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

The problem is not when dps are doing their thing, its when they are not doing it. Tanks are the most vulnerable category in this situation, because a dd can carry another dd if they want to and even a healer can add some dps. Tanks cannot do that.

I had a *funny* experience targeting such an issue, but not exactly this issue:

Half through a dungeon we (tank and healer) ditched a DD, who got angry and cried out loudly that he made 40% of the group DPS and that this was not fair at all.

What happened?

He protected an idiot who didn't do anything meaningful at all, low DPS, lots of deaths, long periods of doing nothing or the inventory. Estimating that the n00b did 10% of the DPS, 50% were generated by healer and tank, which even emphasizes the fact that 40% of group DPS can even for a DD be something between sad and meaningless. At last, my friend and me were lucky that the n00b didn't realize he was protected by the larger DD and ditched him immediately, so we got rid off both of them.

Valrien · July 2018

The only people afraid of DPS meters are those with something to hide

Azuramoonstar · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

I'm not a fan of damage meters as they tend to make mmo communities very poor.

DCUO had a leader board system added, that worked like a damage meter and just made people work less as a team.

In ff14 people shun others over their parse numbers and have a off game site that catalogs everyone's numbers with out consent. Players have to opt out of the site, and are even shunned for doing so as "why hide your stuff if you are good" when it comes to endgame content, people want you to parse a certain color and if they see you have low parse they will kick you out with out giving you a fair shot.

If you are a ps4 player it is even worst as ps4 has 0 access to this, and most don't even know of said site.

I rather not see that type of environment in eso, as it can drag the community down and make content doing more of a job then a fun activity. People shouldn't be sunned by their past progress nor does it really help players play better. People who don't want to improve won't, and those who strive to always do better will do so. No damage meter required. MMO existed well before parser existed. And those communities did fine.

ESO has a decent community when it comes to class assistance, and have several big guide makers that do some pretty good videos. the main eso site also has a guide page.

Azuramoonstar · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

Conduit0 wrote: »

I find it odd how other games manage to have DPS meters that everyone can see and not cause the kind of rampant griefing everyone is talking about. Of course I've also never run into players that were so blatantly not ready for the content they queued for or people marked as damage dealers who couldn't DPS their way out of a paper bag in other games either. I can't help but think these things may be related.

i've experience the opposite.

A good reason why ff14 has a crap community is because of off game parser, and cataloging website. damage meter in ff14 are din't ask don't tell. And people use them to insult, both on forums and in game.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

The problem is not when dps are doing their thing, its when they are not doing it. Tanks are the most vulnerable category in this situation, because a dd can carry another dd if they want to and even a healer can add some dps. Tanks cannot do that.

I had a *funny* experience targeting such an issue, but not exactly this issue:

Half through a dungeon we (tank and healer) ditched a DD, who got angry and cried out loudly that he made 40% of the group DPS and that this was not fair at all.

What happened?

He protected an idiot who didn't do anything meaningful at all, low DPS, lots of deaths, long periods of doing nothing or the inventory. Estimating that the n00b did 10% of the DPS, 50% were generated by healer and tank, which even emphasizes the fact that 40% of group DPS can even for a DD be something between sad and meaningless. At last, my friend and me were lucky that the n00b didn't realize he was protected by the larger DD and ditched him immediately, so we got rid off both of them.

If the 40% guy is carrying his own weight, you really should try convince him to kick the complete garb. I am very good at this btw.

idk · July 2018

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

???? Does not make sense, but ok. I guess I must take into account the @name since that probably puts comments into perspective.

Right, you made a claim, I demand visual proof, you can’t provide it and question why I demand proof.

I made no claim. LOL. You clearly made that up. Thx for trying.

If you are questioning if it is possible, go to 18:08 of this video to see 70k breached in a boss fight. I can only assume you doubt anyone can reach those numbers since I clearly made no statement of the DPS I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS9g0Sz4mL8&list=PLWqnQ2EfnFBh1HccJfwDo8JVfaMvg8vSl&index=1

You said you don’t even need 60k group dps to do vbrf hm. How is this proof of ‘don’t need 60k’ and how is this brf? Cut your bs already. If you can’t provide proof on ‘sub 60k group dps can do brf hm’ you should just say you are wrong.

I think you are confused in a major way. Since we all know, well most of us know, that higher dps makes for an eaiser fight, anyone can decide what dps is required. As a tank you should be aware this already.

So, in the end, if I say you are not doing enough DPS that is all that matters. If you have spend much time in these forums you would have noticed a great many threads of average players complaining about everyone else being the reason for their failure yet they seem to be the only shining part of their random group.

Not that it matters since Zos will not open this up in the API, as I already stated the history of that earlier in this thread. It was added to one addon via an opt in option, but that was after a period of negotiation. That addon is no longer the main addon used these days.

zaria · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

The problem is not when dps are doing their thing, its when they are not doing it. Tanks are the most vulnerable category in this situation, because a dd can carry another dd if they want to and even a healer can add some dps. Tanks cannot do that.

I had a *funny* experience targeting such an issue, but not exactly this issue:

Half through a dungeon we (tank and healer) ditched a DD, who got angry and cried out loudly that he made 40% of the group DPS and that this was not fair at all.

What happened?

He protected an idiot who didn't do anything meaningful at all, low DPS, lots of deaths, long periods of doing nothing or the inventory. Estimating that the n00b did 10% of the DPS, 50% were generated by healer and tank, which even emphasizes the fact that 40% of group DPS can even for a DD be something between sad and meaningless. At last, my friend and me were lucky that the n00b didn't realize he was protected by the larger DD and ditched him immediately, so we got rid off both of them.

If the 40% guy is carrying his own weight, you really should try convince him to kick the complete garb. I am very good at this btw.

if healer and tank do most damage group is too weak, you can carry on or leave, doing almost as much damage as healer + tank is also pathetic, on healer if some is dying I would focus on healing rather than damage even if reducing group dps as I ticked healer.
Yes if one DD is an obvious idiot and you have issues kick. I learned to be an bit cautious and note names as far to often the fake tank with tank dps or the cp750 snipe spammer tries to kick the cp180 guy with good rotation who is out of stupid.
Agreed on kick too many times only to realize the rotten egg initiated kick on low cp.
That scenario is my main bad dungeon experience.

Salvas_Aren · July 2018

Don’t know / care

The sad thing is: This happened with a real Tank who has 5k DPS: 52k+ life, sustain and damage goodies on dual wield bar, taunt and shields on weapon+shield

zaria · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

???? Does not make sense, but ok. I guess I must take into account the @name since that probably puts comments into perspective.

Right, you made a claim, I demand visual proof, you can’t provide it and question why I demand proof.

I made no claim. LOL. You clearly made that up. Thx for trying.

If you are questioning if it is possible, go to 18:08 of this video to see 70k breached in a boss fight. I can only assume you doubt anyone can reach those numbers since I clearly made no statement of the DPS I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS9g0Sz4mL8&list=PLWqnQ2EfnFBh1HccJfwDo8JVfaMvg8vSl&index=1

You said you don’t even need 60k group dps to do vbrf hm. How is this proof of ‘don’t need 60k’ and how is this brf? Cut your bs already. If you can’t provide proof on ‘sub 60k group dps can do brf hm’ you should just say you are wrong.

60K would be reasonable for late vet HM, its under 30K dps on DD as tank and healer add some, and yes that should be expected, accepted minimum recommended dos is 25k for vet dlc standard.
Note that later vet dlc HM is designed to be very hard. An huge gap between standard vet and HM, almost as large as from normal to vet. And this is good even if I'm not at that level but others are.
And no you do not pug this with finder, yes has pugged vet dlc as in we did 1-2 dungeons and decided we try the dlc.
Counter: pugged bloodroot forge as I only needed the two first bosses for achievement awesome group with clear.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

???? Does not make sense, but ok. I guess I must take into account the @name since that probably puts comments into perspective.

Right, you made a claim, I demand visual proof, you can’t provide it and question why I demand proof.

I made no claim. LOL. You clearly made that up. Thx for trying.

If you are questioning if it is possible, go to 18:08 of this video to see 70k breached in a boss fight. I can only assume you doubt anyone can reach those numbers since I clearly made no statement of the DPS I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS9g0Sz4mL8&list=PLWqnQ2EfnFBh1HccJfwDo8JVfaMvg8vSl&index=1

You said you don’t even need 60k group dps to do vbrf hm. How is this proof of ‘don’t need 60k’ and how is this brf? Cut your bs already. If you can’t provide proof on ‘sub 60k group dps can do brf hm’ you should just say you are wrong.

I think you are confused in a major way. Since we all know, well most of us know, that higher dps makes for an eaiser fight, anyone can decide what dps is required. As a tank you should be aware this already.

So, in the end, if I say you are not doing enough DPS that is all that matters. If you have spend much time in these forums you would have noticed a great many threads of average players complaining about everyone else being the reason for their failure yet they seem to be the only shining part of their random group.

Not that it matters since Zos will not open this up in the API, as I already stated the history of that earlier in this thread. It was added to one addon via an opt in option, but that was after a period of negotiation. That addon is no longer the main addon used these days.

No i am not confused. It’s a simple issue with just true or false. He said ‘60k is not needed for vbrf hm’, I don’t believe it’s not enough. So i ask him to show screenshots that he completed vbrf hm with sub 60k group dps. He yet to post it.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

???? Does not make sense, but ok. I guess I must take into account the @name since that probably puts comments into perspective.

Right, you made a claim, I demand visual proof, you can’t provide it and question why I demand proof.

I made no claim. LOL. You clearly made that up. Thx for trying.

If you are questioning if it is possible, go to 18:08 of this video to see 70k breached in a boss fight. I can only assume you doubt anyone can reach those numbers since I clearly made no statement of the DPS I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS9g0Sz4mL8&list=PLWqnQ2EfnFBh1HccJfwDo8JVfaMvg8vSl&index=1

You said you don’t even need 60k group dps to do vbrf hm. How is this proof of ‘don’t need 60k’ and how is this brf? Cut your bs already. If you can’t provide proof on ‘sub 60k group dps can do brf hm’ you should just say you are wrong.

I think you are confused in a major way. Since we all know, well most of us know, that higher dps makes for an eaiser fight, anyone can decide what dps is required. As a tank you should be aware this already.

So, in the end, if I say you are not doing enough DPS that is all that matters. If you have spend much time in these forums you would have noticed a great many threads of average players complaining about everyone else being the reason for their failure yet they seem to be the only shining part of their random group.

Not that it matters since Zos will not open this up in the API, as I already stated the history of that earlier in this thread. It was added to one addon via an opt in option, but that was after a period of negotiation. That addon is no longer the main addon used these days.

No i am not confused. It’s a simple issue with just true or false. He said ‘60k is not needed for vbrf hm’, I don’t believe it’s not enough. So i ask him to show screenshots that he completed vbrf hm with sub 60k group dps. He yet to post it.

*i believe it’s not enough