No, disagree totally. Race should mean more. Alliance should mean more.
Id prefer they didn't have the any race any alliance pack too, make race choice mean something. The pack is what devalues it, and makes the meta chase.
ChildOfLight wrote: »HEAVILY nerf Argonian, Altamer, Dunmer
SLIGHTLY buff Imperial, Nord, Breton
Voilà, balance achieved.
MerlinPendragon wrote: »Sorry but the OPs idea is awful and terribly selfish. It is the equivalent of saying "if I can't have it, I don't want anyone to have it."
Allow for the races without good passives to get buffed to catch up to those who do. We need more differentiation in this game... not more vanilla templates or adhering to this "make everyone equal" hippie non sense.
There is no doubt a few races (i.e. Nords) who got the short end of the stick and need a revamp, but eliminating them all together is not the way to solve this.
Are you sure you read the OP? His suggestion would lead to more varied characters and differentiation not less.
For example, when you see an Altmer character in the game, what are they playing? Did you immediately think "they could be playing a Stamina NB!", or did you think "another magicka toon". Because 99% of the time they are magicka classes.
Same with Redguard, Bosmer, and Khajiit. 99% time Stamina class.
With the dissociation of stat perks with Race, you would finally see Nord magsorcs, and Khajiit magplars, Altmer Stamblades and Bosmer magdens without thinking "man that guy has no idea what they were doing at character creation".
Every race being able to do everything equally good will kill diversity in the game. Also it will collide with the lore.MerlinPendragon wrote: »Sorry but the OPs idea is awful and terribly selfish. It is the equivalent of saying "if I can't have it, I don't want anyone to have it."
Allow for the races without good passives to get buffed to catch up to those who do. We need more differentiation in this game... not more vanilla templates or adhering to this "make everyone equal" hippie non sense.
There is no doubt a few races (i.e. Nords) who got the short end of the stick and need a revamp, but eliminating them all together is not the way to solve this.
Are you sure you read the OP? His suggestion would lead to more varied characters and differentiation not less.
For example, when you see an Altmer character in the game, what are they playing? Did you immediately think "they could be playing a Stamina NB!", or did you think "another magicka toon". Because 99% of the time they are magicka classes.
Same with Redguard, Bosmer, and Khajiit. 99% time Stamina class.
With the dissociation of stat perks with Race, you would finally see Nord magsorcs, and Khajiit magplars, Altmer Stamblades and Bosmer magdens without thinking "man that guy has no idea what they were doing at character creation".
ChildOfLight wrote: »HEAVILY nerf Argonian, Altamer, Dunmer
SLIGHTLY buff Imperial, Nord, Breton
Voilà, balance achieved.
Facefister wrote: »Every race being able to do everything equally good will kill diversity in the game. Also it will collide with the lore.MerlinPendragon wrote: »Sorry but the OPs idea is awful and terribly selfish. It is the equivalent of saying "if I can't have it, I don't want anyone to have it."
Allow for the races without good passives to get buffed to catch up to those who do. We need more differentiation in this game... not more vanilla templates or adhering to this "make everyone equal" hippie non sense.
There is no doubt a few races (i.e. Nords) who got the short end of the stick and need a revamp, but eliminating them all together is not the way to solve this.
Are you sure you read the OP? His suggestion would lead to more varied characters and differentiation not less.
For example, when you see an Altmer character in the game, what are they playing? Did you immediately think "they could be playing a Stamina NB!", or did you think "another magicka toon". Because 99% of the time they are magicka classes.
Same with Redguard, Bosmer, and Khajiit. 99% time Stamina class.
With the dissociation of stat perks with Race, you would finally see Nord magsorcs, and Khajiit magplars, Altmer Stamblades and Bosmer magdens without thinking "man that guy has no idea what they were doing at character creation".
If people expect diversity from their race choice, you'd have to go about them entirely differently.
Instead of having clear magicka and stamina races, each race should bring a unique flavour that helps every build. That means you'll have to focus the bonuses on aspects that every character uses, like potions, food, enchantments, armor; Or that affect all attributes across the board, like the Argonian potion ability.
For example:
Altmer - Kinhouse Excellence
Your jewelry enchantments are a% stronger.
Argonian - Resourceful
Just keep this one, minus the max magicka.
Breton - Soulwrench
Your weapon enchantments are b% stronger.
Bosmer - Resilient
Your attribute recoveries are increased by c%.
Dunmer - House Discount
Your abilities cost d% less.
Imperial - All Corners of the Empire
Your max attributes are increased by e%.
Khajiit - Carnage
Your weapon and spell critical are increased by f%.
Nord - Witch Warrior
Your armor enchantments are g% stronger.
Orc - Master Artisan
Your armor traits are h% stronger.
Redguard - Might of Yokuda
Your weapon traits are i% stronger.
And then adjust the values from there. Entirely lore-appropriate, and lets you create a viable character of any role with most races. I imagine changes like this would upset a lot of people, but it's the only way I can actually see race diversity increasing long-term.
If people expect diversity from their race choice, you'd have to go about them entirely differently.
Instead of having clear magicka and stamina races, each race should bring a unique flavour that helps every build. That means you'll have to focus the bonuses on aspects that every character uses, like potions, food, enchantments, armor; Or that affect all attributes across the board, like the Argonian potion ability.
For example:
Altmer - Kinhouse Excellence
Your jewelry enchantments are a% stronger.
Argonian - Resourceful
Just keep this one, minus the max magicka.
Breton - Soulwrench
Your weapon enchantments are b% stronger.
Bosmer - Resilient
Your attribute recoveries are increased by c%.
Dunmer - House Discount
Your abilities cost d% less.
Imperial - All Corners of the Empire
Your max attributes are increased by e%.
Khajiit - Carnage
Your weapon and spell critical are increased by f%.
Nord - Witch Warrior
Your armor enchantments are g% stronger.
Orc - Master Artisan
Your armor traits are h% stronger.
Redguard - Might of Yokuda
Your weapon traits are i% stronger.
And then adjust the values from there. Entirely lore-appropriate, and lets you create a viable character of any role with most races. I imagine changes like this would upset a lot of people, but it's the only way I can actually see race diversity increasing long-term.
Hence "and then adjust the values from there". The point is that such a system would mean that your race is not a complete waste for certain classes and roles, and that it would be more resilient to changes in the meta. It is not to completely eliminate BIS builds for certain roles and situations. That's futile.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Sure. And then someone does the maths and sees e.g." for mag builds on class sorcs it's most important to have high resources, spell damage from jewels is only secondary, therefor we go with Nord or Imps instead of Altmer". It would cause nothing but a shift in the meta, but it wouldn't eliminate BiS combinations.
What would happen is that those races don't have to rely on other sources of sustain, whereas races that don't have sustain bonuses do. What is your point? That because balance between races is crap now it has to be crap then?Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Also, if people complain about bretons dont being used often for mag builds bc they offer sustain but not so much damage, what do you think would happen to classes that then only offer sustain instead of damage, like Dunmer, Bosmer or Argonians?
So what is your idea to promote diversity?Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »No, thank you.
Hence "and then adjust the values from there". The point is that such a system would mean that your race is not a complete waste for certain classes and roles, and that it would be more resilient to changes in the meta. It is not to completely eliminate BIS builds for certain roles and situations. That's futile.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Sure. And then someone does the maths and sees e.g." for mag builds on class sorcs it's most important to have high resources, spell damage from jewels is only secondary, therefor we go with Nord or Imps instead of Altmer". It would cause nothing but a shift in the meta, but it wouldn't eliminate BiS combinations.What would happen is that those races don't have to rely on other sources of sustain, whereas races that don't have sustain bonuses do. What is your point? That because balance between races is crap now it has to be crap then?Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Also, if people complain about bretons dont being used often for mag builds bc they offer sustain but not so much damage, what do you think would happen to classes that then only offer sustain instead of damage, like Dunmer, Bosmer or Argonians?
Regardless, don't give them sustain passives, then. Those are just examples.So what is your idea to promote diversity?Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »No, thank you.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »And what I would do? Buff underwhelming races to the point they are worthwhile while leaving current good races where they are. But not in "everyone must be able to do everything at the exact same level" but more like "Race X + Class Y + Role Z" work like a charm". Choices would still be there. Races would still matter.
I mean, racial passives didn't matter as much in previous games. ESO is a competitive field combining people from previous games who could chose whatever race they wanted and it not affect their game play. MMO's are treated differently than single player games for a reason.Pink_Violinz wrote: »Seeing as every single Elder Scrolls game thus far has had racial passives, I doubt they'd just scrap them.
MerlinPendragon wrote: »Sorry but the OPs idea is awful and terribly selfish. It is the equivalent of saying "if I can't have it, I don't want anyone to have it."
Allow for the races without good passives to get buffed to catch up to those who do. We need more differentiation in this game... not more vanilla templates or adhering to this "make everyone equal" hippie non sense.
There is no doubt a few races (i.e. Nords) who got the short end of the stick and need a revamp, but eliminating them all together is not the way to solve this.
Are you sure you read the OP? His suggestion would lead to more varied characters and differentiation not less.
For example, when you see an Altmer character in the game, what are they playing? Did you immediately think "they could be playing a Stamina NB!", or did you think "another magicka toon". Because 99% of the time they are magicka classes.
Same with Redguard, Bosmer, and Khajiit. 99% time Stamina class.
With the dissociation of stat perks with Race, you would finally see Nord magsorcs, and Khajiit magplars, Altmer Stamblades and Bosmer magdens without thinking "man that guy has no idea what they were doing at character creation".
No it wouldn't, because the only players who worry about such things would all pick what some streamer told them was the best template, and then two things would happen. First, they'd complain as soon as the next update changed things, and second they'd complain about the lack of purpose to all the other specialisations.
I think you mean "says everyone but nords" nords are the only ones that have sucky passives for any build.
What drug are you on? 6% extra mitigation is a petty damn good passive for tanking, 9% max health and 6% max stam also pretty darn good. Just the cold resist passive is redundant imo.. They should add +% cold dmg to it and it would be good imo
Well i guess you dont know how the nord mitigation works if you think that you get 6% extra mitigation you are WRONG.
With the way how mitigations and racials are calculated you get effectivly 1-2% mitigation from nord due to diminishing returns. Therefore Argonian ALWAYS outweights Nord passives by a mile for tanking. Hell even Imperials are better than Nords for Tanking.
So i took a look at the mitigation calculator, and the 6% is less indeed. Turns out effectively it's 1%. Still i don't see why argonian is better for tanking, is it because of the potion passive? If so, i rather have more raw stats that benefit tanking tbh, since we have meditate now, I think the potion passive shouldn't be made such a big deal of.
EDIT:
Actually considering a race change now
I think you mean "says everyone but nords" nords are the only ones that have sucky passives for any build.
I really want to make a Nordic character like my first character in skyrim, when i found out they sucked to tank in ESO i was quite upset. Its just , redguard for stam, dunmer/altmer for magicka, argonian for tank
I don't see how opening up all classes to all races would "kill" diversity, as some maintain. Care to elaborate?