"Racial passives are fine already! Don't need to touch them" - Says every altmer/dunmer

TheShadowScout

JobooAGS wrote: »

Except in previous elder scrolls games, racials were insignificant to meaningless in endgame

And that's why I say...

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Are the current "percentage points on top" passives the best way to depict that?
HELL NO!
Personally I would change that to pre-assigned attribute points instead...

And anyone who knows the games might recognize this as an ESO-fied version of how things were in some of the older TES games, where races did not get "percentage on top" boni, but simply a start bonus in some skills. And in the end, -every- character could max these skills at 100 if they spent the effort - some just started from 30, while others from 10.

And let's be honest, one to three additional attribute points would not be worth that much, right? Not compared to all the others people spend until they hit endgame. And especially not if they someday choose to add some sort of softcap again, which I for one would hope, to make hybrid characters decent again...

DanteYoda wrote: »

This idea is lore... A race is good at certain things but not every person in said race is good at the same thing...

Noone forces you to spend skill points on your racial passives.
There you are!
That's the persons not good at the same thing for you!

But that does not mean that these persons suddenly exchange their -racial- advantages for other ones. Not every cat may be good at sneaking, but that doesn't mean they suddenly exchange their "stealth" passive for a "gills" passive and breathe underwater, right?

And that is why I would like to see the racial passives nerfed and an -additional- set of "cultural" passives that are freely selectable take over the "percentage on top" mechanic. Wanna be a mage? Take the "scholar childhood" passive for magica boost! Wanna be a fighter? Take the "Warrior childhood" passive for stamina bonus. That would fix the issue, right? Still preserving the lore about racial perks, while still giving people the way to pick the most effective "cultural" passive for their character concept...

brandonv516

Not Altmer or Dunmer on most characters. Don't touch the racials.

ceil420

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

How many meta race players have you heard saying this?

My solution:

Remove the current racial passives entirely. The only racial passive we should have is the inherent racial passive, like the 1% AP bonus gain from breton, 1% gold bonus gain from imperials, and so on, because passives creates an imbalance, a go-to race, lack of freedom. Statiscally, high elves outnumbers every other race. I'm imperial sorc, my passives tells me that I had a heavy training as a warrior. Well, I haven't. I'm a mage, I didn't train to be a warrior.

Instead of the current passives, we should have a tab called "Specialization", between skill and champion tree tab, where we set our specialization and chose what we would like to raise: max magicka or max stamina for base energy resource (pick one), pick one defensive passive (max hp, spell/physical resistance, crit resist?, healing received, and so on), 1 recovery passive (like, magicka recovery, health recovery, decreased cost of stamina or magicka ability passive, and so on), offensive passive (spell/physical dmg, spell/physical crit, spell/phys. penetration, healing done), always picking one from each.

This covers everything, free us from bouding to races that we don't like, and actually would release us to be 100% better.

2nd solution idea that is out there: Birthsigns instead of racial passives.

I second this. With no racial passives that directly affect combat, all races will be equally viable for all builds.

Throughout the Elder Scrolls series and ESO, you come across npc's of races that would never do well for their roles. You have Altmer 2H and DW warriors, khajiit, Nord and Redguard mages etc. Shalidor, the friggin founder of the friggin Mages Guild is a NORD! Queen Ayrenn is an Altmer warrior who uses a sword, not magic. The same can be said about High King Emeric, a Bretton.

As it stands now, the players don't have the option to play as character such as these MAIN characters in the game, due to the mismatch of racial passives vs stamin/magicka roles. Unless of course they want to get kicked out of raid groups etc.

That is called balance.

This, really. T's something I've often thought about, playing my Bosmer Stamblade (DPS) or Orc Magden (DPS/Heals). In and of themselves, the combat-based passives don't personally bother me, but their effect on the players do - people are literally saying that other players have trash builds because their race doesn't have the best passives for their class or role. Khajiit Tanks are viable, but not meta, and so get crapped on because they're literally not peak performance.

I'd really like there to still be race-based passives, but not those that have such a strong effect on combat. For instance:

Bretons can still get their Alliance boost, and 3% Magicka cost reduction isn't bad, but bring the Max Magicka boosts down to that level as well, and less Spell Resistance.
Orsimer can still have their Crafting boost, but maybe not so much Health Recovery.
Altmer, like Bretons, can still get their EXP boost, but maybe drop the Max Magicka a bit.

Ideally, I'd rather see the passives have no direct impact on combat - no boosts to Max Magicka/Health/Stamina, no boost to Regen, no boost to Physical/Spell damage. Rather, let passives effect things like exp gain, speed, stealth detection*, picking pockets, fishing, sprinting, horse riding, crafting (maybe particular types of crafting depending on the race), etc.

I'd really like there to just be no cause for players to hate on other players for not using a 'meta' race, by taking the race out of the meta. Nerfs would be better than nothing, though.

*I don't really do PvP - if stealth is actually big there, maybe don't boost it.

Merlin13KAGL

Some might be a little more overtuned than necessary, but making blanket statements like your thread title doesn't exactly help your cause.

SakuraRush

I say we go all in and bring back racial negatives from Morrowind.

Maryal

No.

Many of us chose our race BECAUSE of our racial passives.

If someone doesn't like their racial passive then get a race change token, or start a new character with the racial passives you prefer for your build/playstyle.

People who chose their race wisely shouldn't be punished as a result of those who chose unwisely.

Racial passives should remain fairly static (more static than skills) - they should be the one thing you, as a player, can count on.

They should NOT be subject to the 'flavor of the month' builds or play styles, nor should they be subject to change as a result of 'meta build pressure.'

themaddaedra

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Jolipinator wrote: »

lore

What about the lore? The main character of the Mage's Guild quest-line is a Nord mage. When you finish the Mage's Guild quest-line, you see representations from literally every race in Eyevea afterward, including an Orc mage who summons flesh atronachs, and Redguards.
Changing racial passives won't affect YOUR game in any way if you don't want it to.

Well you don't see those NPCs complaining about their passives lol. You can too make an Orc magicka sorc and summon stuff, the only reason you don't do it is the meta and it's completely on player base.

Removing class passives do destroy the lore.

LeHarrt91

Maryal wrote: »

No.

Many of us chose our race BECAUSE of our racial passives.

If someone doesn't like their racial passive then get a race change token.

People who chose wisely shouldn't be punished as a result of those who chose unwisely.

Racial passives should remain static - they should NOT be subject to the 'flavor of the month' builds or play styles.

Thats what they said about race change, but now thats in the crowns store. Do you really think they wouldnt monetise racial passives if they could?

But what about those people that what a race because of their aesthetics and not their passives? Are you saying they are unwise because they didnt choose the min/ max race because they didnt want those aesthetics?

Some people want to wisely choose a race because of aesthetics and to not be gimped by passives.

Klixen

I agree with this 100%

My favorite race in the game are Orcs. Unfortunately my favorite classes are all Magicka based.

I tried to make an Orc Magicka Templar, but it didn't work well. The lack of Magicka recovery was a real killer (literally).

So I was forced to re-roll a High Elf. But I hate High Elves! I hate the way they look, I hate their lore, I hate their racist mentality. But I'm forced to play one if I want to be a Magicka user and it really irks me.

I find it very hard to 'like' my character. Please let me play the race and the class that I want to play.

Maryal

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

No.

Many of us chose our race BECAUSE of our racial passives.

If someone doesn't like their racial passive then get a race change token.

People who chose wisely shouldn't be punished as a result of those who chose unwisely.

Racial passives should remain static - they should NOT be subject to the 'flavor of the month' builds or play styles.

Thats what they said about race change, but now thats in the crowns store. Do you really think they wouldnt monetise racial passives if they could?

But what about those people that what a race because of their aesthetics and not their passives? Are you saying they are unwise because they didnt choose the min/ max race because they didnt want those aesthetics?

Some people want to wisely choose a race because of aesthetics and to not be gimped by passives.

People that chose their race due to esthetics may end up discovering they chose unwisely, especially if they end up in pvp. For them, it's a difficult, but needed lesson to learn. Many of us were not new to the on-line gaming world when we started this game, for us, we learned that lesson a long time ago and probably in a different game.

max_only

BuddyAces wrote: »

Will never turn down the opportunity to post in these topics. I hate how stam is pigeon holed into redguard. Sure I could use any class but I really don't feel like gimping meself. If there's one thing I had power to change it would be racials.

Is it because when one thinks Redguard one thinks of people who look like Sai Sahan? I can show you how to make a Redguard that looks like a stereotypical Nord if you like. (I’m not trying to start something I’m being very serious.)

bg22

max_only wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Will never turn down the opportunity to post in these topics. I hate how stam is pigeon holed into redguard. Sure I could use any class but I really don't feel like gimping meself. If there's one thing I had power to change it would be racials.

Is it because when one thinks Redguard one thinks of people who look like Sai Sahan? I can show you how to make a Redguard that looks like a stereotypical Nord if you like. (I’m not trying to start something I’m being very serious.)

True.

I’m a “Nord”, buuuuut I’m actually a Redguard. My dude looks Nordic as can be.

DanteYoda

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

just another scrub salty that they're not as good as my beautiful high elves

But they aren't beautiful the are gigantic oafish elven creatures with weird gold skin..

LeHarrt91

What if the passives were preset like they are now (with a few minor tweaks to lesser passives), but not tied to race appearance.

TheGr8David

I like the idea and think it would be nicer if we kind of meshed the specialization mechanic you're talking about with "sub-races" IE: Colovians & Nibeneans for Imperials, or Ashlanders & Great House Dunmer, etc.

Each of the sub-races could act like a specialized version of that race tailored to a more specific role and there could also be nice RP opportunities for those crazy RPers out there.

Sparr0w

ezio45 wrote: »

no dont remove racial passives just buff woodelf and nord

sincerely - 6/8 altmers

I would gladly take a buff

Aliyavana

Klixen wrote: »

I agree with this 100%

My favorite race in the game are Orcs. Unfortunately my favorite classes are all Magicka based.

I tried to make an Orc Magicka Templar, but it didn't work well. The lack of Magicka recovery was a real killer (literally).

So I was forced to re-roll a High Elf. But I hate High Elves! I hate the way they look, I hate their lore, I hate their racist mentality. But I'm forced to play one if I want to be a Magicka user and it really irks me.

I find it very hard to 'like' my character. Please let me play the race and the class that I want to play.

Ur using a high elf picture

Sparr0w

1st buff nords & have Khajiit's crit both weapon & spell.

Then you could allow a choice based on the race e.g. if I picked a woodelf I have the option to use the passives from Khajiit, redguard, orc etc...

If I picked a high elf I could choose the passives of breton, dark elf, argonian etc...

Klixen

Aliyavana wrote: »

Klixen wrote: »

I agree with this 100%

My favorite race in the game are Orcs. Unfortunately my favorite classes are all Magicka based.

I tried to make an Orc Magicka Templar, but it didn't work well. The lack of Magicka recovery was a real killer (literally).

So I was forced to re-roll a High Elf. But I hate High Elves! I hate the way they look, I hate their lore, I hate their racist mentality. But I'm forced to play one if I want to be a Magicka user and it really irks me.

I find it very hard to 'like' my character. Please let me play the race and the class that I want to play.

Ur using a high elf picture

Yes, you're right. But that's because my main is a High Elf Templar and I wanted an avatar that looked like my character.

But I'd much rather be playing an Orc

Beardimus

No, disagree totally. Race should mean more. Alliance should mean more.

Id prefer they didn't have the any race any alliance pack too, make race choice mean something. The pack is what devalues it, and makes the meta chase.

Mayrael

I also want to have some choice. Let's give every race passive morphs, you choose between different versions of passives, everyone would have some nice build options while preserving diversity.

Chilly-McFreeze

Benemime wrote: »

How many meta race players have you heard saying this?

My solution:

Remove the current racial passives entirely. The only racial passive we should have is the inherent racial passive, like the 1% AP bonus gain from breton, 1% gold bonus gain from imperials, and so on, because passives creates an imbalance, a go-to race, lack of freedom. Statiscally, high elves outnumbers every other race. I'm imperial sorc, my passives tells me that I had a heavy training as a warrior. Well, I haven't. I'm a mage, I didn't train to be a warrior.

Instead of the current passives, we should have a tab called "Specialization", between skill and champion tree tab, where we set our specialization and chose what we would like to raise: max magicka or max stamina for base energy resource (pick one), pick one defensive passive (max hp, spell/physical resistance, crit resist?, healing received, and so on), 1 recovery passive (like, magicka recovery, health recovery, decreased cost of stamina or magicka ability passive, and so on), offensive passive (spell/physical dmg, spell/physical crit, spell/phys. penetration, healing done), always picking one from each.

This covers everything, free us from bouding to races that we don't like, and actually would release us to be 100% better.

2nd solution idea that is out there: Birthsigns instead of racial passives.

So PvP is full of Bretons for the extra AP and PvE is full of Imps for the gold because that is what is most effective then. Just like it's most effective now to be a dunmer mdk, an altmer msorc, a redguard stam X etc. Nice one!

Also, a few racial passives don't increase your performance by 100%. If it would, I'd be an godlike dunmer stam sorc after the change. But guess what, cheesy sets and player skill are far more valuable than a few passives.

Elwendryll

I'd like either:
- Only non combat related racial passives.
- Only neutral racial passives (Affect both stamina and magicka, or neither)
- Only flat values in the racial passives. (Ex: +3000 max magicka for Altmer instead of 10% max magicka).
- No change.
- Buff the khajiit

Overall, I'd like the races to impact more on the leveling of skill lines and on the identity of the character, and less on the final performance for a role.
Am I reasonable ?

Edit: I like a lot the passive morph idea.

Bodži

IMO there should be a middle solution. You get some passives no matter what you choose. the rest of passives are added based on the background that you choose. Choosing default would give you passives that are like now, but others would be possible.

Example:
Every High Elf gets - Increases Max Magicka by 4%.
High Elf with sorcery background gets 10% (like is now).
High Elf with fighting backgroud gets stamina or health or dmg increase.
High Elf with stealth background gets crit chance increase.

Of course there is still work in order to make it balanced and decide on actual numbers. But this would give much more diversity into the game.

What do you think?


EDIT:
Any change to this should keep already BiS races for diff roles but with this enabling other builds to come equal or second/third.
E.g. currently argonian is best tank, imperial second. I would like to have possibility to add wood elf to be a little weaker than imperial.

on the other hand, you have woeler who is tanking with a khajiit...

Faulgor

Benemime wrote: »

Instead of the current passives, we should have a tab called "Specialization", between skill and champion tree tab, where we set our specialization and chose what we would like to raise

That's what the champion system should have been. Rework that instead, finally, and limit racial passives to non-combat flavor, or flat bonuses that only help in the beginning.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Wasn't Shalidor a Nord? I wonder if he had any use for his racial passives.

Yup. And no, his racial passives don't help him at all. Just frost resist. He founded the Mages Guild for God's sake.

No he didn't. Vanus Galerion founded the Mages Guild. Shalidor is sometimes credited with founding the College of Winterhold, though.

Slick_007

is it that time of year already? when was the last thread on this?

Merlin13KAGL

Maryal wrote: »

They should NOT be subject to the 'flavor of the month' builds or play styles, nor should they be subject to change as a result of 'meta build pressure.'

yet

Many of us chose our race BECAUSE of our racial passives.

Do you realize how contradictory this sounds?

It's more than a bit absurd to say because you're <Insert IRL race here> that you have a natural predisposition to singing Karaoke, Mountain Climbing, or being a naturally gifted baker.

The subtle passives are one thing (Dunmer having natural resistance to fire, Nords to Ice, Argoians poison, Altmer having innate magic tendencies, Redguards swordplay). Those things at least have some lore based sense to them.

Having +/- stats across the board for a race kind of defeats 'not being subject to FOTM builds,' especially since it was one of your major deciding factors resulting in a 'good choice.'

It's exactly why the standalone games added this sort of things courtesy of birthsign, and less by race.

Should the passives change from patch to patch? Hell no.

Should they be somehow tied directly to the in-game color of your skin? Same answer.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Said no Wood elf ever :-D

Vercingetorix

No, you don't get to play the way you want - that was never the plan for this game. I thought you kids had learned this lesson after 5 years - it's about playing the exact way ZoS wants you to play. You have no voice. Your opinion means nothing here. Not even my opinions about fixing stuff matter. Nothing matters.

griffkhalifa

Benemime wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

No

meta being meta

Not everyone who disagrees is being "meta." I main a Khajiit and one of my racial passives is basically useless and I don't want any changes. It's fine the way it is.