"Racial passives are fine already! Don't need to touch them" - Says every altmer/dunmer

danno8

MerlinPendragon wrote: »

Sorry but the OPs idea is awful and terribly selfish. It is the equivalent of saying "if I can't have it, I don't want anyone to have it."

Allow for the races without good passives to get buffed to catch up to those who do. We need more differentiation in this game... not more vanilla templates or adhering to this "make everyone equal" hippie non sense.

There is no doubt a few races (i.e. Nords) who got the short end of the stick and need a revamp, but eliminating them all together is not the way to solve this.

Are you sure you read the OP? His suggestion would lead to more varied characters and differentiation not less.

For example, when you see an Altmer character in the game, what are they playing? Did you immediately think "they could be playing a Stamina NB!", or did you think "another magicka toon". Because 99% of the time they are magicka classes.

Same with Redguard, Bosmer, and Khajiit. 99% time Stamina class.

With the dissociation of stat perks with Race, you would finally see Nord magsorcs, and Khajiit magplars, Altmer Stamblades and Bosmer magdens without thinking "man that guy has no idea what they were doing at character creation".

troomar

The only passive I want for my Bosmer is: Increase your Cuteness by 1/5/10%.

zaria

Jolipinator wrote: »

lore

Says people who has not played daggerfall, Morrowind or Oblivion.
As in previous games racials was primary an starting bonus on stats and attributes.
As you leveled up that effect become less and less.
This make sense men are default stronger than ladies, but if a lady trained a lot show would be stronger than 90% on this forum, some with 100 in an stat is an expert.
ESO goes the other way all are equal at the start but start changing while leveling up even if not ever using their racial bonuses. In an competitive multiplayer game, no it makes no sense and the eso racials only survived beta because soft cap.
I say ESO should add sexual differentiated stats like it was in Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion, look it up.

SakuraRush

zaria wrote: »

Jolipinator wrote: »

lore

Says people who has not played daggerfall, Morrowind or Oblivion.
As in previous games racials was primary an starting bonus on stats and attributes.
As you leveled up that effect become less and less.
This make sense men are default stronger than ladies, but if a lady trained a lot show would be stronger than 90% on this forum, some with 100 in an stat is an expert.
ESO goes the other way all are equal at the start but start changing while leveling up even if not ever using their racial bonuses. In an competitive multiplayer game, no it makes no sense and the eso racials only survived beta because soft cap.
I say ESO should add sexual differentiated stats like it was in Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion, look it up.

Ignoring that there were negatives for each race as well such as taking more damage from Magicka. Something I'm in favor of having in the game.

Why not make racial passives into something that can be changed on a whim the way birthsigns were turned into mundus stones?

Distill it even more and allow the player to choose their own suite of 4 so no one is stuck with one that applies to leveling a skill when others get one that is profitable forever.

Then to make it perfect put all the changes into a "pack" players can buy in order to use.

Cloudtrader

As someone who rolled an Orc Sorcerer and wanted to heal with her (and did so, including in Vet DLC dungeons, but was still told that "LOL, you can't heal on an ORC!"), I support removing any passives that pigeon-hole a race into a specific roll. I like the lore-flavored passives, like the Khajiit pickpocketing, Orc run-speed, and Argonian swim-speed passives. All classes should have variations on that kind of thing, not things that affect combat.

ArchMikem

I'd be a happy camper if my MagSorc Khajiit had Magic passives. But people are just gonna tell me that Khajiit are a Stam Race, like a Khajiiti Mage is something completely unheard of.

TheShadowScout

zaria wrote: »

As in previous games racials was primary an starting bonus on stats and attributes.
As you leveled up that effect become less and less.

...which would be something I would much prefer then the current "percentage bonus on top of everything".

And that is why I say things like...

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I would change that to pre-assigned attribute points instead, and then add a new set of passives that -would- be freely selectable which bring the percentage boni... "upbringing" passives, like... grow up in a scholar family among books and stuff, gain magica bonus from all that learning, grow up in a warrior family with daily weapons training, gain stamina bonus, grow up as outcast roughing it in the wilds, gain health bonus...

That way we would ge tto have noth the "lore" about some races having a leg up when it comes to stamina or magica or toughness... and still not have it affect the endgame like a "must have" percentage bonus, which would be sifted to an freely selectable "upbringing" passive.
Everyone wins.

Tan9oSuccka

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

I think you mean "says everyone but nords" nords are the only ones that have sucky passives for any build.

Nord tanks work just fine.

That’s just it. The one thing they can sort of do, Nords are probably the fourth best choice.

Damage, nope. Heals, nope. Tank, fourth choice.

I think it’s time for a drastic buff.

Grandesdar

Or they can work current racial styles into something like zodiac, same stuff but under different name so that appearance would have nothing to do with passive skills. Both parties are happy in the end.
Like I love how imperials look but I don't want an imperial DD so I will take the imperial race under moonstone zodiac, which gives crit and stam recovery.

Aliyavana

troomar wrote: »

The only passive I want for my Bosmer is: Increase your Cuteness by 1/5/10%.

It's already in the game

Silver_Strider

griffkhalifa wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

"I want my racial choice to matter"
Considering that ZOS has changed racials before that have altered how some play, this seems like a poor excuse. There's still people on here that complain that their Magic Khajiit got nerfed when ZOS changed Carnage to only to affect Weapon Crit when it used to affect both. Then, there are the passives that changed for the better in general but weren't originally available; Nords didn't have the 6% Max Stamina on release, Argonian didn't have a tri-stat restore with potions but an increase to the effectiveness of potions, and Dark Elf only had increased Fire Damage, not Ice/Lightning as well. Your choice can be invalidated in an instant that this seems foolhardy to even try to argue as a reason for racial passives to remain.

"Lore"
How exactly does the Lore of a race suddenly vanish if their Racial Passives are removed? Altmer will continue to be known as the masters of Magic by the Lore and you'll still be able to build your character to fit that role if you so choose to but not gimped if you choose not to. Argonians are suppose to be masters of Guerilla Warfare and Assassins but their passives suggest they're mostly Tanks and Healers, Nords aren't suppose to be adapt at Magic and yet Shalidor is one of the most prominent Mages ever known. Lore is malleable and ZOS has been playing fast and loss with it for years. If you really wanted to argue Lore, than I'd argue that Altmer should take extra damage from Magic abilities since it's also a part of their lore that they're more susceptible to Magic.

Can I get a real reason racials cannot be dropped like a stone in water?

Just because you disagree with the reasons doesn't mean they aren't real reasons. If it isn't broken don't fix it. That's a reason.

Oh they're real alright. Really poorly thought out. It's not about disagreeing, it about how poorly they act as justification for keeping Racial Passives when they've proven to be points of difficulty for ZOS to balance and a hot topic button for players

"If it isn't broken..."
If this was even remotely true why is it that people still complain about how OP or UP a race is, hence this thread and every single one before it. CLEARLY, there is something very wrong in these people's eyes when Argonians are BiS for 4 classes in PvP or Nords continue being bottom tier in everything.

So why not remove them entirely when it's clearly more reasonable to do so? So ZOS can continue to sell their race change tokens in the crown store and even THAT is a poor reason because there are other games, such as FFXIV, that sell race change for real money but are 100% cosmetic with no racial advantages at all.

Chilly-McFreeze

SakuraRush wrote: »

Then to make it perfect put all the changes into a "pack" players can buy in order to use.

Coming to a Crown Store near you.

ResTandRespeC

Good idea diluted by half baked attempts to bash an entire portion of the player base.

Runschei

As a dunmer I say they're free to touch racisl passives, but don't nerf the heck out of them. Buff the needed ones, like nord.

Agenericname

Riptide wrote: »

Mixed feelings. The fact is that if you play a race that doesn’t mix with your role you are hurting your teamates over a selfish aesthetic choice, and so most team players don’t do that. For good reason. And it is entirely reasonable to select the best race that benefits the class/role.

And therin is the actual homogenization.

Removing all racial passives too far though, no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Redo the passives to not affect combat, or at least, not so directly magicka or stamina related so that we get what we have now, where most races fit one or the other.

Things like Argonian swim speed are excellent racial passives that any toon can use. Percentage increases in stats is lazy and gets us what we have here.

But 3 things along the line of swim speed per race be fun and level the playing field, generate diversity of builds etc while maintaining importance of choice.

That's a fairly accurate representation of my feelings.

I like the racial passives, but feel like they should be balanced and/or have the offensive components removed.

Unit117

Mettaricana wrote: »

Cuz not gonna lie half the game contradicts itself all bretons are warriors and knights never mages like their racials say

Bretons a have a magic community. Wyresses that watch over they wyrd tree. They are hybrid race they strengths in both sides

Unit117

Valkysas154 wrote: »

Would not mind seeing the Wood elfs fall dmg reduction changed from 10% to 25% or more

I would honestly be cool if they took no fall damage unless it’s fatal That would be fun to play around,

Unit117

My idea would be keep the races. But increase/ decrease thier strength depending on how much of the population plays them. That way people who max will always be trying to play the least played race. Over time it will balance out the populations

themaddaedra

Benemime wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I mean you can't make your own choice then complain that it doesn't fit well, because it's completely on your hands to not choose what fits well.

Oh so now if I want to be a mage and I don't perform at same level, It is my fault that I didn't want to play with an altmer? that's laughable, on a mmo. I won't play with altmer, I simply don't like them, I'm italian I want to see myself in the game and imperial is the only has that actually has my nose.

This is not a singleplayer game. My solution (and plenty of others that are based on birthsign) won't HARM your gameplay, it will only give us the same level as you, you are just part of the players that benefits from racial passives the way it is and don't want others to perform better or equaly as you.

Well that's an mmorpg for those who can read lol. Why would races be destroyed just because you hate Altmer or wanna be an Imperial mage or whatsoever? You say you don't care about races yet you look like you care a lot lmao.

If you care about meta, then choose meta. If you care about Imperial mage rp, then be an Imperial mage. It's not mountains vs rocks. Just pay the little price of your own choices and leave the game alone.

ArchMikem

themaddaedra wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I mean you can't make your own choice then complain that it doesn't fit well, because it's completely on your hands to not choose what fits well.

Oh so now if I want to be a mage and I don't perform at same level, It is my fault that I didn't want to play with an altmer? that's laughable, on a mmo. I won't play with altmer, I simply don't like them, I'm italian I want to see myself in the game and imperial is the only has that actually has my nose.

This is not a singleplayer game. My solution (and plenty of others that are based on birthsign) won't HARM your gameplay, it will only give us the same level as you, you are just part of the players that benefits from racial passives the way it is and don't want others to perform better or equaly as you.

Well that's an mmorpg for those who can read lol. Why would races be destroyed just because you hate Altmer or wanna be an Imperial mage or whatsoever? You say you don't care about races yet you look like you care a lot lmao.

If you care about meta, then choose meta. If you care about Imperial mage rp, then be an Imperial mage. It's not mountains vs rocks. Just pay the little price of your own choices and leave the game alone.

It's not little when your choice means you get barred from Trial Groups and even kicked from Vet Dungeons because your Race isn't BiS.

idk

I am fine with the racial passives on my Red Guard and Argonian.

Every race has passives that are good for something. Not every race can be BiS for everything.

themaddaedra

ArchMikem wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I mean you can't make your own choice then complain that it doesn't fit well, because it's completely on your hands to not choose what fits well.

Oh so now if I want to be a mage and I don't perform at same level, It is my fault that I didn't want to play with an altmer? that's laughable, on a mmo. I won't play with altmer, I simply don't like them, I'm italian I want to see myself in the game and imperial is the only has that actually has my nose.

This is not a singleplayer game. My solution (and plenty of others that are based on birthsign) won't HARM your gameplay, it will only give us the same level as you, you are just part of the players that benefits from racial passives the way it is and don't want others to perform better or equaly as you.

Well that's an mmorpg for those who can read lol. Why would races be destroyed just because you hate Altmer or wanna be an Imperial mage or whatsoever? You say you don't care about races yet you look like you care a lot lmao.

If you care about meta, then choose meta. If you care about Imperial mage rp, then be an Imperial mage. It's not mountains vs rocks. Just pay the little price of your own choices and leave the game alone.

It's not little when your choice means you get barred from Trial Groups and even kicked from Vet Dungeons because your Race isn't BiS.

It only means that you choose the wrong group tho. Once again blaming game for what players do. Racial passives only and only matter if you aim for the top score runs. There are loads of players who are welcome to all races as long as they know what they play.

I have a templar and she has been Breton, Argonian, Redguard, she has been a healtank, a supdd, a healer, a stamplar (as breton) and nobody ever dared to kick me. Find you better people.

ZeroXFF

Remove racial passives, buff armor skill lines by the same amount. This would be the most obvious solution IMO.

Alternatively, reintroduce the current racial passives as new stars to the CP system (or adjust scaling on those that would be identical, like magicka regen), since we are slowly approaching a point where everyone can have everything from CPs.

This would lead to even more homogenization, but at least people won't be punished for choices they do not understand at the character creation screen when they make their first char.

max_only

ArchMikem wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I mean you can't make your own choice then complain that it doesn't fit well, because it's completely on your hands to not choose what fits well.

Oh so now if I want to be a mage and I don't perform at same level, It is my fault that I didn't want to play with an altmer? that's laughable, on a mmo. I won't play with altmer, I simply don't like them, I'm italian I want to see myself in the game and imperial is the only has that actually has my nose.

This is not a singleplayer game. My solution (and plenty of others that are based on birthsign) won't HARM your gameplay, it will only give us the same level as you, you are just part of the players that benefits from racial passives the way it is and don't want others to perform better or equaly as you.

Well that's an mmorpg for those who can read lol. Why would races be destroyed just because you hate Altmer or wanna be an Imperial mage or whatsoever? You say you don't care about races yet you look like you care a lot lmao.

If you care about meta, then choose meta. If you care about Imperial mage rp, then be an Imperial mage. It's not mountains vs rocks. Just pay the little price of your own choices and leave the game alone.

It's not little when your choice means you get barred from Trial Groups and even kicked from Vet Dungeons because your Race isn't BiS.

Trial groups not taking a Bis race I can understand but Veteran Dungeons? Ugh... wut? Templar Bosmer healer here, I’ve never been kicked from any vet dungeon.

EDS604

Tyrobag wrote: »

I think you mean "says everyone but nords" nords are the only ones that have sucky passives for any build.

What drug are you on? 6% extra mitigation is a petty damn good passive for tanking, 9% max health and 6% max stam also pretty darn good. Just the cold resist passive is redundant imo.. They should add +% cold dmg to it and it would be good imo

I agree with the OP tho, why wouldn't a redguard be able to be magicka focussed? instead of giving them 10% max stam, give the player the option to change that to max magicka, but with a penalty, like only give them 7% max magicka instead of 10%. this way people do have the freedom to play whatever class they want, yet the identity of the race doesn't get affecte a s much, since max stam would still be the race's trademark/specialty

ATomiX96

EDS604 wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

I think you mean "says everyone but nords" nords are the only ones that have sucky passives for any build.

What drug are you on? 6% extra mitigation is a petty damn good passive for tanking, 9% max health and 6% max stam also pretty darn good. Just the cold resist passive is redundant imo.. They should add +% cold dmg to it and it would be good imo

Well i guess you dont know how the nord mitigation works if you think that you get 6% extra mitigation you are WRONG.
With the way how mitigations and racials are calculated you get effectivly 1-2% mitigation from nord due to diminishing returns. Therefore Argonian ALWAYS outweights Nord passives by a mile for tanking. Hell even Imperials are better than Nords for Tanking.

EDS604

ATomiX96 wrote: »

EDS604 wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

I think you mean "says everyone but nords" nords are the only ones that have sucky passives for any build.

What drug are you on? 6% extra mitigation is a petty damn good passive for tanking, 9% max health and 6% max stam also pretty darn good. Just the cold resist passive is redundant imo.. They should add +% cold dmg to it and it would be good imo

Well i guess you dont know how the nord mitigation works if you think that you get 6% extra mitigation you are WRONG.
With the way how mitigations and racials are calculated you get effectivly 1-2% mitigation from nord due to diminishing returns. Therefore Argonian ALWAYS outweights Nord passives by a mile for tanking. Hell even Imperials are better than Nords for Tanking.

So i took a look at the mitigation calculator, and the 6% is less indeed. Turns out effectively it's 1%. Still i don't see why argonian is better for tanking, is it because of the potion passive? If so, i rather have more raw stats that benefit tanking tbh, since we have meditate now, I think the potion passive shouldn't be made such a big deal of.

EDIT:

Actually considering a race change now

Slick_007

Vercingetorix wrote: »

No, you don't get to play the way you want - that was never the plan for this game.

another person misquoting this phrase to suit a situation it never applied to. good going!

suggest you go and read the website where this phrase comes from before making these kinds of ridiculous comments again.

ChildOfLight

HEAVILY nerf Argonian, Altamer, Dunmer
SLIGHTLY buff Imperial, Nord, Breton

Voilà, balance achieved.

evoniee

racial change token is good money