No changes to shieldbreaker?

DDuke · July 2018

Derra wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

The-Baconator wrote: »

You realize as of the last year and a half most sorcs are running around with more stam recov than heavy armor stam builds because they have terrible in combat sustain and shields give mediocre survivablity when focused by half decent players?

LOL...more stam recovery then Heavy armor stam builds that's a new one but I give you points for creativity. Lost all credibility right here this statement. Sorcs only need stam for the occasionally CC break and if the stam pool regen is pressured beyond what the CC immunity window provides they just streak away for a bit or cast a Dark Deal during the CC immunity window.

Cmon man me and other players see what good sorcs can do on the battlefield on a regular basis. I can only assume you are just trying to get Sorcs back to the God mode of the past. You're not fooling anyone.

I have between 1100 and 1600 stamrec on my pvp builds (the latter being with continuous attacks).

He´s not too far of with his statement about stamrec - the in combat sustain is 100% spot on (outside of harnessfeeding) and shields only provide above average survivability in strict 1v1 situations.

Saying sorcs only need stam for occasional cc breaks definetly makes you the person that has no credibility on the matter of sorcs in pvp.

You run around the same amount of magregen on your stamnb, I think it's balanced that people have to worry about their offstat ressources as well.

@DDuke more nbs doing it wrong

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It depends, fighting a duel sorc hero beyond 50k magicka with minor maim who turtles in mines is beyond stupid ^^ Normal shields (40-45k magpool) seem to be fine this patch since the damage increased so much overall.

That´s one of the things that stop working once the fight exceeds 3 players though. Nobody is arguing that shields are still overperforming for 1v1 if you massively invest for them still (though compared to older builds this now does require 100% investment).
But cyrodiil is hardly 1v1 or 1v2.
Those shield builds are generally dead meat once incoming dmg exceeds shieldable dmg/s - because shields don´t scale but dodge does.

Cyndis is a rollerblade though, of course he invests in magicka (and stamina) regens.

I don't invest in either, because I don't like people outhealing/shielding me.

If someone massively invests in shields, you massively invest in damage - there's no problem getting through anyone's shields in 1v1.

Oh, and Shield Breaker is a complete waste - not necessary at all.

Mayrael · July 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we at least have some statement, is this set WAI and no changes will be done or it is looked into and some tweaks are possible?

White wabbit · July 2018

Mayrael wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we at least have some statement, is this set WAI and no changes will be done or it is looked into and some tweaks are possible?

Yes please let's have a statement so that we can put the whinners to bed

Ocelot9x · July 2018

I'm not gonna spend 25k telvar to get a set that's working mostly vs 1 class but hell,currently on ps4 EU every"pro" player wannabe is rolling a sorc with engine guard,amberplasm,lich and willpower staff. Its so funny to see all those sorc with 21.3k HP streaking miles away

Lexxypwns · July 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Just screw the 5p bonus and turn the 5p into a stam version of Overwhelming Surge.

Turn shieldbreaker in sload?

Derra · July 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Just screw the 5p bonus and turn the 5p into a stam version of Overwhelming Surge.

Turn shieldbreaker in sload?

not really - overwhelming is ~25 to 40% less dmg than sload
it proccs on class abilities - which doesn´t come in handy on stam
it breaks cloak for user aswell (not good for only class spamming class abilities)
and stam already has better/equivalent proccsets available

Silver_Strider · July 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

Dang Shields just keep getting bigger these days

You dodged the point so well that I'd swear you were running Shuffle. The shield itself isn't the problem, that's easy enough to burn thru alone; the issue is with the rest of Sorc's toolkit that allows for max damage at a far range. You can only survive for so long against a good Sorc player when all counters are getting removed by 1 part of Sorc's toolkit or another. Reflect only counters Frags/Overload, Curse breaks cloak, implosion/mage fury essentially negate the last 20% of your health should it drop that low (and it will drop that low constantly) Rune cage removes blocking long enough that you can get them to execute range and ALL of this can happen from max range, meaning you not only have to try to survive all that BS but you also have to try and close that gap if you're stamina based, in which case, Sorcs will just streak away, up Wards, cast Resto Ultimate and do the same s*** over and over again til you're dead.

That sounds just as cheesy as Shieldbreaker IMO.

Shadowmaster · July 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Saltminers: They put on this set cause they like to completly rek sorcs in a way where they habe 0 counterplay and feeling good and proud about it. They even enjoy the hate wisp they get for using this set or even make videos on youtube showing there epic zergsurf and killing sorcs with shieldbreaker. All from pc/eu know who i am talking about.

Can we assume you main a sorc? The amount of tears in this post make me feel like I am at the salt flats in Utah.

Shadowmaster · July 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

If I could give you ESO gold for this post, I would.

ESO sorcs - "Everyone is mean we can't 1v40 anymore without even taking damage, the two sets in the game players can use to actually fight us should be removed!"

Everyone else - "Dude wtf infinite sustain sorcs, my only option is 2 different gear sets. Thats literally my only option!"

Mayrael · July 2018

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Saltminers: They put on this set cause they like to completly rek sorcs in a way where they habe 0 counterplay and feeling good and proud about it. They even enjoy the hate wisp they get for using this set or even make videos on youtube showing there epic zergsurf and killing sorcs with shieldbreaker. All from pc/eu know who i am talking about.

Can we assume you main a sorc? The amount of tears in this post make me feel like I am at the salt flats in Utah.

Shadow master can we assume you main a NB? Your hate toward sorcs drips of you like fat from bacon.

Biro123 · July 2018

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

If I could give you ESO gold for this post, I would.

ESO sorcs - "Everyone is mean we can't 1v40 anymore without even taking damage, the two sets in the game players can use to actually fight us should be removed!"

Everyone else - "Dude wtf infinite sustain sorcs, my only option is 2 different gear sets. Thats literally my only option!"

Shieldbreaker users.. : I wants to kills stuff by left-clicking...
Guy who has to time 4/5 abilities to land all at the same time to get a kill : … ???

Universe · July 2018

Nerf Shieldbreaker discussion again ?
If I had to read through all nerf Shieldbreaker discussions, I would have needed a year to do so

It is really a shame that years have passed and ZOS never addressed this set's balance

Many players(me included) have suggested to implement a cooldown of a few seconds to this set's proc.
Sadly, It seems unlikely that they will do anything.

Oblivion damage shouldn't even exist in this game.
The idea to implement it was bad from the start.

Tommy_The_Gun · July 2018

As long as shields ignore weapon / spell crit & penetration... there is no need to change shield breaker.

If damage shields mechanics would be changed so at lest one of those - crit dmg or penetration would affect damage shields - then fine - change shield breaker 5pcs bonus.
But as long as shield-stacking ignores crit & penetration - then I am afraid oblivion dmg is your only option (Unless you can CC someone and burst them with 30K - 40K RAW dmg not affected by critical dmg bonus in 2 - 4 sec till he/she breaks free).

Derra · July 2018

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

If damage shields mechanics would be changed so at lest one of those - crit dmg or penetration would affect damage shields - then fine - change shield breaker 5pcs bonus.

penetration affects shields - they just have 0 resistances - so ok?

Tommy_The_Gun · July 2018

Derra wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

If damage shields mechanics would be changed so at lest one of those - crit dmg or penetration would affect damage shields - then fine - change shield breaker 5pcs bonus.

penetration affects shields - they just have 0 resistances - so ok?

Sorry if you misunderstood me.

My point is - even if you sacrifice something in your build to have high weapon / spell penetration - if the target has dmg shield - penetration is useless as is it not even taken into consideration when you deal dmg - because shields have 0 resistance so there is "nothing" to be penetrated so it is wasted (until dmg shield is gone that is).

I was thinking of the scenario in witch ZOS would change how dmg shields work - some actual benefit like penetration increasing dmg against shields etc.

Derra · July 2018

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

If damage shields mechanics would be changed so at lest one of those - crit dmg or penetration would affect damage shields - then fine - change shield breaker 5pcs bonus.

penetration affects shields - they just have 0 resistances - so ok?

Sorry if you misunderstood me.

My point is - even if you sacrifice something in your build to have high weapon / spell penetration - if the target has dmg shield - penetration is useless as is it not even taken into consideration when you deal dmg - because shields have 0 resistance so there is "nothing" to be penetrated so it is wasted (until dmg shield is gone that is).

I was thinking of the scenario in witch ZOS would change how dmg shields work - some actual benefit like penetration increasing dmg against shields etc.

look i get the notion - i think shieldstacking should go aswell (but it would require way too much general class rework on sorcs).
but shields are breakable right now for competent players. they´re not longer the massive issue they used to be.

Enabling shields to be crit would also mean that crits should crit themselves - also obviously critmultipliers and impen would have to work.
This would lead to grotesque things like a 17k crit hardened ward with 5500 impen because the sorc ran necro rend impreg.

there is no easy way that does not result in partly reworking sorcs defensive mechanics.

The-Baconator · July 2018

Sureshawt wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

The-Baconator wrote: »

You realize as of the last year and a half most sorcs are running around with more stam recov than heavy armor stam builds because they have terrible in combat sustain and shields give mediocre survivablity when focused by half decent players?

LOL...more stam recovery then Heavy armor stam builds that's a new one but I give you points for creativity. Lost all credibility right here this statement. Sorcs only need stam for the occasionally CC break and if the stam pool regen is pressured beyond what the CC immunity window provides they just streak away for a bit or cast a Dark Deal during the CC immunity window.

Cmon man me and other players see what good sorcs can do on the battlefield on a regular basis. I can only assume you are just trying to get Sorcs back to the God mode of the past. You're not fooling anyone.

I have between 1100 and 1600 stamrec on my pvp builds (the latter being with continuous attacks).

He´s not too far of with his statement about stamrec - the in combat sustain is 100% spot on (outside of harnessfeeding) and shields only provide above average survivability in strict 1v1 situations.

Saying sorcs only need stam for occasional cc breaks definetly makes you the person that has no credibility on the matter of sorcs in pvp.

OK...please tell me what else a shield stacking mag sorc needs stam for? I can't wait to hear this

If you had even a basic understanding of how almost everyone built their sorcs post morrowind sustain nerfs you would understand how ridiculous that question is.

As for the actual topic of shieldbreaker, I feel like the conversation is focused too much on if the set is justified as opposed if there is a more fair, interesting, and equally effective way for the set to function. For example, if the set were to instead cause heavy attacks against a shielded opponent to do X bonus physical damage times the amount of shields they have up (perhaps even stunning the target if they have a certain number of shields on) it could still fulfill the role it was designed for while making utilizing the set both more interesting and demanding for the user. I don't think most people have a problem with the set existing, it's just the way it currently functions is horribly designed.

Mayrael · July 2018

The-Baconator wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

The-Baconator wrote: »

You realize as of the last year and a half most sorcs are running around with more stam recov than heavy armor stam builds because they have terrible in combat sustain and shields give mediocre survivablity when focused by half decent players?

LOL...more stam recovery then Heavy armor stam builds that's a new one but I give you points for creativity. Lost all credibility right here this statement. Sorcs only need stam for the occasionally CC break and if the stam pool regen is pressured beyond what the CC immunity window provides they just streak away for a bit or cast a Dark Deal during the CC immunity window.

Cmon man me and other players see what good sorcs can do on the battlefield on a regular basis. I can only assume you are just trying to get Sorcs back to the God mode of the past. You're not fooling anyone.

I have between 1100 and 1600 stamrec on my pvp builds (the latter being with continuous attacks).

He´s not too far of with his statement about stamrec - the in combat sustain is 100% spot on (outside of harnessfeeding) and shields only provide above average survivability in strict 1v1 situations.

Saying sorcs only need stam for occasional cc breaks definetly makes you the person that has no credibility on the matter of sorcs in pvp.

OK...please tell me what else a shield stacking mag sorc needs stam for? I can't wait to hear this

If you had even a basic understanding of how almost everyone built their sorcs post morrowind sustain nerfs you would understand how ridiculous that question is.

As for the actual topic of shieldbreaker, I feel like the conversation is focused too much on if the set is justified as opposed if there is a more fair, interesting, and equally effective way for the set to function. For example, if the set were to instead cause heavy attacks against a shielded opponent to do X bonus physical damage times the amount of shields they have up (perhaps even stunning the target if they have a certain number of shields on) it could still fulfill the role it was designed for while making utilizing the set both more interesting and demanding for the user. I don't think most people have a problem with the set existing, it's just the way it currently functions is horribly designed.

Exactly, I don't mind existing set that adds some counter play to stacked shields (like each shield above one causes that you receive 100% more damage, with 3 shields up you would receive 200% more damage) but current design is simply unacceptable because it leaves no counterplay except of running away.

Silver_Strider · July 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

If I could give you ESO gold for this post, I would.

ESO sorcs - "Everyone is mean we can't 1v40 anymore without even taking damage, the two sets in the game players can use to actually fight us should be removed!"

Everyone else - "Dude wtf infinite sustain sorcs, my only option is 2 different gear sets. Thats literally my only option!"

Shieldbreaker users.. : I wants to kills stuff by left-clicking...
Guy who has to time 4/5 abilities to land all at the same time to get a kill : … ???

Yes because Shieldbreaker is an instant win condition against any and all builds, despite being essentially useless against all stamina builds and even some magic builds. You don't kill anyone in PvP with solely light attacks, and anyone that does die would have done so against any build. Using Shieldbreaker is essentially playing handicapped against anyone that isn't using a Damage Shield as their primary defense and it's still entirely possible to lose a fight against those that do use damage shields with the set.

I don't complain about Stamden, despite also having a kill combo or DK despite having an unblocked CC because those classes are set up in a way that, while powerful by their own rights at least allow for some counterplay to be had. Fossilize has a short range and DK itself is largely DoT based so not only are they more vulnerable to retaliation from close combat, they also can be purged. Stamden, while a powerful burst class, is also a close range combatant so same rules apply there but Sorc does not have that stipulation. It doesn't have to risk anything at all for maximum damage while actively countering anything that could potentially be a threat; Blocking is out because of Rune Cage, Cloak is easily countered by Curse or Streak, most of the combo can't be reflected/dodged, leaving your only real option to just hope you survive long enough to heal thru the damage and even then Mage's Fury/Implosion make that even harder as it makes it so that you're essentially playing with 80% health at all times.

So please, keep assuming that people that use Shieldbreaker just want an easy win button because if that was even remotely true, then people could just run in groups of Sload Users and get the same effect with even less effort.

BohnT · July 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

If I could give you ESO gold for this post, I would.

ESO sorcs - "Everyone is mean we can't 1v40 anymore without even taking damage, the two sets in the game players can use to actually fight us should be removed!"

Everyone else - "Dude wtf infinite sustain sorcs, my only option is 2 different gear sets. Thats literally my only option!"

Shieldbreaker users.. : I wants to kills stuff by left-clicking...
Guy who has to time 4/5 abilities to land all at the same time to get a kill : … ???

Yes because Shieldbreaker is an instant win condition against any and all builds, despite being essentially useless against all stamina builds and even some magic builds. You don't kill anyone in PvP with solely light attacks, and anyone that does die would have done so against any build. Using Shieldbreaker is essentially playing handicapped against anyone that isn't using a Damage Shield as their primary defense and it's still entirely possible to lose a fight against those that do use damage shields with the set.

I don't complain about Stamden, despite also having a kill combo or DK despite having an unblocked CC because those classes are set up in a way that, while powerful by their own rights at least allow for some counterplay to be had. Fossilize has a short range and DK itself is largely DoT based so not only are they more vulnerable to retaliation from close combat, they also can be purged. Stamden, while a powerful burst class, is also a close range combatant so same rules apply there but Sorc does not have that stipulation. It doesn't have to risk anything at all for maximum damage while actively countering anything that could potentially be a threat; Blocking is out because of Rune Cage, Cloak is easily countered by Curse or Streak, most of the combo can't be reflected/dodged, leaving your only real option to just hope you survive long enough to heal thru the damage and even then Mage's Fury/Implosion make that even harder as it makes it so that you're essentially playing with 80% health at all times.

So please, keep assuming that people that use Shieldbreaker just want an easy win button because if that was even remotely true, then people could just run in groups of Sload Users and get the same effect with even less effort.

Which part of: "Shieldbreaker adds 3.5k oblivion dps just by spamming light attacks, that's more than most duel builds have with all their skills" was too hard for you to understand?

Most stambuilds aren't able to reach 3.5k hps and that's without defiles but keep thinking it's balanced just because sorcs are unbalanced as well.
If this set existed for every spec/ defence everyone would run one of those because they give you do many free ap and you can easily backbar it while the 2,3,4 pc bonuses are still great

barshemm · July 2018

Sorcs need stam to dodge roll. The ones that think they don't are the ones who I burn their shields down with light overload attacks and then kill on my Stam sorc if I have enough ult, which I usually do.

Sorcs who dodge roll just a few times easily make that tactic worthless and it become the cc/nuke contest which they are much better equipped to win against a dw/2h build.

Biro123 · July 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

If I could give you ESO gold for this post, I would.

ESO sorcs - "Everyone is mean we can't 1v40 anymore without even taking damage, the two sets in the game players can use to actually fight us should be removed!"

Everyone else - "Dude wtf infinite sustain sorcs, my only option is 2 different gear sets. Thats literally my only option!"

Shieldbreaker users.. : I wants to kills stuff by left-clicking...
Guy who has to time 4/5 abilities to land all at the same time to get a kill : … ???

Yes because Shieldbreaker is an instant win condition against any and all builds, despite being essentially useless against all stamina builds and even some magic builds. You don't kill anyone in PvP with solely light attacks, and anyone that does die would have done so against any build. Using Shieldbreaker is essentially playing handicapped against anyone that isn't using a Damage Shield as their primary defense and it's still entirely possible to lose a fight against those that do use damage shields with the set.

I don't complain about Stamden, despite also having a kill combo or DK despite having an unblocked CC because those classes are set up in a way that, while powerful by their own rights at least allow for some counterplay to be had. Fossilize has a short range and DK itself is largely DoT based so not only are they more vulnerable to retaliation from close combat, they also can be purged. Stamden, while a powerful burst class, is also a close range combatant so same rules apply there but Sorc does not have that stipulation. It doesn't have to risk anything at all for maximum damage while actively countering anything that could potentially be a threat; Blocking is out because of Rune Cage, Cloak is easily countered by Curse or Streak, most of the combo can't be reflected/dodged, leaving your only real option to just hope you survive long enough to heal thru the damage and even then Mage's Fury/Implosion make that even harder as it makes it so that you're essentially playing with 80% health at all times.

So please, keep assuming that people that use Shieldbreaker just want an easy win button because if that was even remotely true, then people could just run in groups of Sload Users and get the same effect with even less effort.

That old story..
Completely useless against stam? Really. The 2-4 piece bonuses are pretty good. All you lose is a single 5-piece bonus.. So what's that? Hundings is 300 wpn dmg... Losing that is maybe a 3-4% dmg loss.. whoopy-doo.

I mean, of course that's what makes the average shieldbreaker user completely innefective against stam, it's the set! Or maybe it explains how they can still lose Vs sorcs even with it!

templesus · July 2018

I don’t understand how anyone can sit there and honestly say that spamming light attacks to kill people is balanced and should be in the game.

When I die to SHIELDBREAKER from using ABSORB MAGIC on my 2h/Snb medium armor STAMPLAR I consider uninstalling the game EVERY time. Why is that a thing? How does ANYBODY consider that balanced?

All ZOS needs to do to balance this game is the following:
Disable all proc sets, oblivion damage, and poisons, as well as hard cap health at 25k, magicka and stamina at 40k, resistances at 25k, and make sure this is in PVP AREAS ONLY.
I know it’ll never happen, but I like MLKJ I have a dream.

IAVITNI · July 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Yes because Shieldbreaker is an instant win condition against any and all builds, despite being essentially useless against all stamina builds and even some magic builds. You don't kill anyone in PvP with solely light attacks, and anyone that does die would have done so against any build. Using Shieldbreaker is essentially playing handicapped against anyone that isn't using a Damage Shield as their primary defense and it's still entirely possible to lose a fight against those that do use damage shields with the set.

I don't complain about Stamden, despite also having a kill combo or DK despite having an unblocked CC because those classes are set up in a way that, while powerful by their own rights at least allow for some counterplay to be had. Fossilize has a short range and DK itself is largely DoT based so not only are they more vulnerable to retaliation from close combat, they also can be purged. Stamden, while a powerful burst class, is also a close range combatant so same rules apply there but Sorc does not have that stipulation. It doesn't have to risk anything at all for maximum damage while actively countering anything that could potentially be a threat; Blocking is out because of Rune Cage, Cloak is easily countered by Curse or Streak, most of the combo can't be reflected/dodged, leaving your only real option to just hope you survive long enough to heal thru the damage and even then Mage's Fury/Implosion make that even harder as it makes it so that you're essentially playing with 80% health at all times.

So please, keep assuming that people that use Shieldbreaker just want an easy win button because if that was even remotely true, then people could just run in groups of Sload Users and get the same effect with even less effort.

If I were to build a 40k hp tank in heavy armor with no investment into offence, I could still beat any magicka sorc 1v1 in a matter seconds. Please tell me how that's balanced.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

2 things here:
First, please share the build that gives me 40k shields.

Second, I and I'm sure most sorcs agree that an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m (an exaggeration btw, because frags has a 28m range) is overpowered and requires a nerf. The only reason why the combo is unblockable and undodgable at the moment is because of Rune Cage. So let's say we remove the functionality of Rune Cage either by changing the way the CC works or removing the damage (which equates to about 20k tooltip damage btw since Fury will not proc against a decent build without RC damage). Without Rune Cage, the combo is blockable and dodge able.If the Frag doesn't hit, Fury won't go off and even an ultimate dump won't be enough to kill an opponent with HoTs or shields running if the frag doesn't land. So quite frankly if you die to a 11k tooltip curse that only goes off every 3.5 seconds and crushing shock spam than that's on you.

Shields were definitely overperforming in the past. That's not the case anymore. Shield breaker needs an update because it is 100% over performing atm.

Silver_Strider · July 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

If I could give you ESO gold for this post, I would.

ESO sorcs - "Everyone is mean we can't 1v40 anymore without even taking damage, the two sets in the game players can use to actually fight us should be removed!"

Everyone else - "Dude wtf infinite sustain sorcs, my only option is 2 different gear sets. Thats literally my only option!"

Shieldbreaker users.. : I wants to kills stuff by left-clicking...
Guy who has to time 4/5 abilities to land all at the same time to get a kill : … ???

Yes because Shieldbreaker is an instant win condition against any and all builds, despite being essentially useless against all stamina builds and even some magic builds. You don't kill anyone in PvP with solely light attacks, and anyone that does die would have done so against any build. Using Shieldbreaker is essentially playing handicapped against anyone that isn't using a Damage Shield as their primary defense and it's still entirely possible to lose a fight against those that do use damage shields with the set.

I don't complain about Stamden, despite also having a kill combo or DK despite having an unblocked CC because those classes are set up in a way that, while powerful by their own rights at least allow for some counterplay to be had. Fossilize has a short range and DK itself is largely DoT based so not only are they more vulnerable to retaliation from close combat, they also can be purged. Stamden, while a powerful burst class, is also a close range combatant so same rules apply there but Sorc does not have that stipulation. It doesn't have to risk anything at all for maximum damage while actively countering anything that could potentially be a threat; Blocking is out because of Rune Cage, Cloak is easily countered by Curse or Streak, most of the combo can't be reflected/dodged, leaving your only real option to just hope you survive long enough to heal thru the damage and even then Mage's Fury/Implosion make that even harder as it makes it so that you're essentially playing with 80% health at all times.

So please, keep assuming that people that use Shieldbreaker just want an easy win button because if that was even remotely true, then people could just run in groups of Sload Users and get the same effect with even less effort.

That old story..
Completely useless against stam? Really. The 2-4 piece bonuses are pretty good. All you lose is a single 5-piece bonus.. So what's that? Hundings is 300 wpn dmg... Losing that is maybe a 3-4% dmg loss.. whoopy-doo.

I mean, of course that's what makes the average shieldbreaker user completely innefective against stam, it's the set! Or maybe it explains how they can still lose Vs sorcs even with it!

And you can use another set that gives similar 2-4 piece bonuses with a decent 5pc bonus that is universally more useful than Shieldbreaker too. Let me rephrase, It's useless, in comparison to other similar sets, against Stamina players because you could run anything else with similar 2-4 piece bonuses and be more effective in general instead of specialized for fighting shield spammers. Hell, I could run Night Mother's Embrace, which has the EXACT same 2-4 piece bonuses but comes with an extra 5th piece weapon damage buff as well as making sneaking more effective so it's more universally powerful in comparison to Shieldbreaker, which is only useful against shield users.

Keep reaching with strawman arguments.

BohnT wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

If I could give you ESO gold for this post, I would.

ESO sorcs - "Everyone is mean we can't 1v40 anymore without even taking damage, the two sets in the game players can use to actually fight us should be removed!"

Everyone else - "Dude wtf infinite sustain sorcs, my only option is 2 different gear sets. Thats literally my only option!"

Shieldbreaker users.. : I wants to kills stuff by left-clicking...
Guy who has to time 4/5 abilities to land all at the same time to get a kill : … ???

Yes because Shieldbreaker is an instant win condition against any and all builds, despite being essentially useless against all stamina builds and even some magic builds. You don't kill anyone in PvP with solely light attacks, and anyone that does die would have done so against any build. Using Shieldbreaker is essentially playing handicapped against anyone that isn't using a Damage Shield as their primary defense and it's still entirely possible to lose a fight against those that do use damage shields with the set.

I don't complain about Stamden, despite also having a kill combo or DK despite having an unblocked CC because those classes are set up in a way that, while powerful by their own rights at least allow for some counterplay to be had. Fossilize has a short range and DK itself is largely DoT based so not only are they more vulnerable to retaliation from close combat, they also can be purged. Stamden, while a powerful burst class, is also a close range combatant so same rules apply there but Sorc does not have that stipulation. It doesn't have to risk anything at all for maximum damage while actively countering anything that could potentially be a threat; Blocking is out because of Rune Cage, Cloak is easily countered by Curse or Streak, most of the combo can't be reflected/dodged, leaving your only real option to just hope you survive long enough to heal thru the damage and even then Mage's Fury/Implosion make that even harder as it makes it so that you're essentially playing with 80% health at all times.

So please, keep assuming that people that use Shieldbreaker just want an easy win button because if that was even remotely true, then people could just run in groups of Sload Users and get the same effect with even less effort.

Which part of: "Shieldbreaker adds 3.5k oblivion dps just by spamming light attacks, that's more than most duel builds have with all their skills" was too hard for you to understand?

Most stambuilds aren't able to reach 3.5k hps and that's without defiles but keep thinking it's balanced just because sorcs are unbalanced as well.
If this set existed for every spec/ defence everyone would run one of those because they give you do many free ap and you can easily backbar it while the 2,3,4 pc bonuses are still great

The part where you left out the Damage Shield Requirement to proc Shieldbreaker in the 1st place. To my knowledge, you can't forcibly apply a damage shield to an enemy target, meaning you would need the enemy to do that willingly for you to get the extra 2.5K oblivion damage Shield Breaker adds to your light attacks and last I checked, Oblivion Damage couldn't be boosted by anything so I'm not sure where you're getting 3.5K oblivion damage from.

Galarthor · July 2018

Gprime31 wrote: »

One class? Only sorcs can use shields? News to me

Go ahead and name one other class that is so reliant on its shields and has such poor healing, which is essentially the only counter to oblivion damage, except not getting hit in the first place by dodging or cloaking.

The 2nd most shield-reliant class is wardens, but they got better healing and utilities, so while it is cancerous enough agains them they are not as adversly affected by it as sorcs are. You should also keep in mind, that when Shield Breaker was designed Wardens were not around. That set has always been desgned to screw over sorcs. Anytbody else suffering from that set was just considered acceptable collateral by ZOS.

The next class that comes into mind is the MagNB, but they got better heals than sorc and cloak.

And so on ...

So while others are also affected by the broken mechanic, they are not as adversly affected as magSorcs are and in the eyes of ZOS are only considered collateral.

Derra wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I still don't get how the forums erupt with outrage over sloads pathetic 800 oblivion dps, but Vs 3200 from shieldbreaker, it's always L2P....

sloads was good against stamblades - shieldbreaker is mostly used by stamblades

That pretty much sums it up. Shieldbreaker is mostly used against a single class (see above), while sloads hurts those usually using shield breaker and have no idea what it is like to be on the receiving end of Oblivion Damage spam. Interesting though, how Sloads dealing a fraction of the damage of Shield Breaker gets nerfed with the first major patch, while Shield Breaker remains untouched for years. They not only reduce Sloads damage, but also remove it's defense circumventing property in regards to cloak. But a set that circumvents sorcs pretty much only defensiv tool and deals far more damage, while sorc heal significantly less, is considered to be ok.

GG ZOS. Sound reasoing you got there!

scrobey · July 2018

Screw sorcs

Biro123 · July 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

If I could give you ESO gold for this post, I would.

ESO sorcs - "Everyone is mean we can't 1v40 anymore without even taking damage, the two sets in the game players can use to actually fight us should be removed!"

Everyone else - "Dude wtf infinite sustain sorcs, my only option is 2 different gear sets. Thats literally my only option!"

Shieldbreaker users.. : I wants to kills stuff by left-clicking...
Guy who has to time 4/5 abilities to land all at the same time to get a kill : … ???

Yes because Shieldbreaker is an instant win condition against any and all builds, despite being essentially useless against all stamina builds and even some magic builds. You don't kill anyone in PvP with solely light attacks, and anyone that does die would have done so against any build. Using Shieldbreaker is essentially playing handicapped against anyone that isn't using a Damage Shield as their primary defense and it's still entirely possible to lose a fight against those that do use damage shields with the set.

I don't complain about Stamden, despite also having a kill combo or DK despite having an unblocked CC because those classes are set up in a way that, while powerful by their own rights at least allow for some counterplay to be had. Fossilize has a short range and DK itself is largely DoT based so not only are they more vulnerable to retaliation from close combat, they also can be purged. Stamden, while a powerful burst class, is also a close range combatant so same rules apply there but Sorc does not have that stipulation. It doesn't have to risk anything at all for maximum damage while actively countering anything that could potentially be a threat; Blocking is out because of Rune Cage, Cloak is easily countered by Curse or Streak, most of the combo can't be reflected/dodged, leaving your only real option to just hope you survive long enough to heal thru the damage and even then Mage's Fury/Implosion make that even harder as it makes it so that you're essentially playing with 80% health at all times.

So please, keep assuming that people that use Shieldbreaker just want an easy win button because if that was even remotely true, then people could just run in groups of Sload Users and get the same effect with even less effort.

That old story..
Completely useless against stam? Really. The 2-4 piece bonuses are pretty good. All you lose is a single 5-piece bonus.. So what's that? Hundings is 300 wpn dmg... Losing that is maybe a 3-4% dmg loss.. whoopy-doo.

I mean, of course that's what makes the average shieldbreaker user completely innefective against stam, it's the set! Or maybe it explains how they can still lose Vs sorcs even with it!

And you can use another set that gives similar 2-4 piece bonuses with a decent 5pc bonus that is universally more useful than Shieldbreaker too. Let me rephrase, It's useless, in comparison to other similar sets, against Stamina players because you could run anything else with similar 2-4 piece bonuses and be more effective in general instead of specialized for fighting shield spammers. Hell, I could run Night Mother's Embrace, which has the EXACT same 2-4 piece bonuses but comes with an extra 5th piece weapon damage buff as well as making sneaking more effective so it's more universally powerful in comparison to Shieldbreaker, which is only useful against shield users.

Keep reaching with strawman arguments.

BohnT wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

If I could give you ESO gold for this post, I would.

ESO sorcs - "Everyone is mean we can't 1v40 anymore without even taking damage, the two sets in the game players can use to actually fight us should be removed!"

Everyone else - "Dude wtf infinite sustain sorcs, my only option is 2 different gear sets. Thats literally my only option!"

Shieldbreaker users.. : I wants to kills stuff by left-clicking...
Guy who has to time 4/5 abilities to land all at the same time to get a kill : … ???

Yes because Shieldbreaker is an instant win condition against any and all builds, despite being essentially useless against all stamina builds and even some magic builds. You don't kill anyone in PvP with solely light attacks, and anyone that does die would have done so against any build. Using Shieldbreaker is essentially playing handicapped against anyone that isn't using a Damage Shield as their primary defense and it's still entirely possible to lose a fight against those that do use damage shields with the set.

I don't complain about Stamden, despite also having a kill combo or DK despite having an unblocked CC because those classes are set up in a way that, while powerful by their own rights at least allow for some counterplay to be had. Fossilize has a short range and DK itself is largely DoT based so not only are they more vulnerable to retaliation from close combat, they also can be purged. Stamden, while a powerful burst class, is also a close range combatant so same rules apply there but Sorc does not have that stipulation. It doesn't have to risk anything at all for maximum damage while actively countering anything that could potentially be a threat; Blocking is out because of Rune Cage, Cloak is easily countered by Curse or Streak, most of the combo can't be reflected/dodged, leaving your only real option to just hope you survive long enough to heal thru the damage and even then Mage's Fury/Implosion make that even harder as it makes it so that you're essentially playing with 80% health at all times.

So please, keep assuming that people that use Shieldbreaker just want an easy win button because if that was even remotely true, then people could just run in groups of Sload Users and get the same effect with even less effort.

Which part of: "Shieldbreaker adds 3.5k oblivion dps just by spamming light attacks, that's more than most duel builds have with all their skills" was too hard for you to understand?

Most stambuilds aren't able to reach 3.5k hps and that's without defiles but keep thinking it's balanced just because sorcs are unbalanced as well.
If this set existed for every spec/ defence everyone would run one of those because they give you do many free ap and you can easily backbar it while the 2,3,4 pc bonuses are still great

The part where you left out the Damage Shield Requirement to proc Shieldbreaker in the 1st place. To my knowledge, you can't forcibly apply a damage shield to an enemy target, meaning you would need the enemy to do that willingly for you to get the extra 2.5K oblivion damage Shield Breaker adds to your light attacks and last I checked, Oblivion Damage couldn't be boosted by anything so I'm not sure where you're getting 3.5K oblivion damage from.

And you completely miss the point. If you ran night mother's, exactly how much damage does that 5 piece give you over shieldbreaker Vs a non-shield user? You tell me exactly how much harder you hit on, say a surprise attack?

Let's take the other side.. SB gives a 5 piece that's useless Vs stam. Spriggarns gives a 5 piece that's useless Vs shields.. almost exact opposites, right?
Spriggarns adds maybe 4% dmg. That is NOTHING compared to 3200 oblivion dps. NOTHING.

Where is the balance?

Silver_Strider · July 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

If I could give you ESO gold for this post, I would.

ESO sorcs - "Everyone is mean we can't 1v40 anymore without even taking damage, the two sets in the game players can use to actually fight us should be removed!"

Everyone else - "Dude wtf infinite sustain sorcs, my only option is 2 different gear sets. Thats literally my only option!"

Shieldbreaker users.. : I wants to kills stuff by left-clicking...
Guy who has to time 4/5 abilities to land all at the same time to get a kill : … ???

Yes because Shieldbreaker is an instant win condition against any and all builds, despite being essentially useless against all stamina builds and even some magic builds. You don't kill anyone in PvP with solely light attacks, and anyone that does die would have done so against any build. Using Shieldbreaker is essentially playing handicapped against anyone that isn't using a Damage Shield as their primary defense and it's still entirely possible to lose a fight against those that do use damage shields with the set.

I don't complain about Stamden, despite also having a kill combo or DK despite having an unblocked CC because those classes are set up in a way that, while powerful by their own rights at least allow for some counterplay to be had. Fossilize has a short range and DK itself is largely DoT based so not only are they more vulnerable to retaliation from close combat, they also can be purged. Stamden, while a powerful burst class, is also a close range combatant so same rules apply there but Sorc does not have that stipulation. It doesn't have to risk anything at all for maximum damage while actively countering anything that could potentially be a threat; Blocking is out because of Rune Cage, Cloak is easily countered by Curse or Streak, most of the combo can't be reflected/dodged, leaving your only real option to just hope you survive long enough to heal thru the damage and even then Mage's Fury/Implosion make that even harder as it makes it so that you're essentially playing with 80% health at all times.

So please, keep assuming that people that use Shieldbreaker just want an easy win button because if that was even remotely true, then people could just run in groups of Sload Users and get the same effect with even less effort.

That old story..
Completely useless against stam? Really. The 2-4 piece bonuses are pretty good. All you lose is a single 5-piece bonus.. So what's that? Hundings is 300 wpn dmg... Losing that is maybe a 3-4% dmg loss.. whoopy-doo.

I mean, of course that's what makes the average shieldbreaker user completely innefective against stam, it's the set! Or maybe it explains how they can still lose Vs sorcs even with it!

And you can use another set that gives similar 2-4 piece bonuses with a decent 5pc bonus that is universally more useful than Shieldbreaker too. Let me rephrase, It's useless, in comparison to other similar sets, against Stamina players because you could run anything else with similar 2-4 piece bonuses and be more effective in general instead of specialized for fighting shield spammers. Hell, I could run Night Mother's Embrace, which has the EXACT same 2-4 piece bonuses but comes with an extra 5th piece weapon damage buff as well as making sneaking more effective so it's more universally powerful in comparison to Shieldbreaker, which is only useful against shield users.

Keep reaching with strawman arguments.

BohnT wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

If I could give you ESO gold for this post, I would.

ESO sorcs - "Everyone is mean we can't 1v40 anymore without even taking damage, the two sets in the game players can use to actually fight us should be removed!"

Everyone else - "Dude wtf infinite sustain sorcs, my only option is 2 different gear sets. Thats literally my only option!"

Shieldbreaker users.. : I wants to kills stuff by left-clicking...
Guy who has to time 4/5 abilities to land all at the same time to get a kill : … ???

Yes because Shieldbreaker is an instant win condition against any and all builds, despite being essentially useless against all stamina builds and even some magic builds. You don't kill anyone in PvP with solely light attacks, and anyone that does die would have done so against any build. Using Shieldbreaker is essentially playing handicapped against anyone that isn't using a Damage Shield as their primary defense and it's still entirely possible to lose a fight against those that do use damage shields with the set.

I don't complain about Stamden, despite also having a kill combo or DK despite having an unblocked CC because those classes are set up in a way that, while powerful by their own rights at least allow for some counterplay to be had. Fossilize has a short range and DK itself is largely DoT based so not only are they more vulnerable to retaliation from close combat, they also can be purged. Stamden, while a powerful burst class, is also a close range combatant so same rules apply there but Sorc does not have that stipulation. It doesn't have to risk anything at all for maximum damage while actively countering anything that could potentially be a threat; Blocking is out because of Rune Cage, Cloak is easily countered by Curse or Streak, most of the combo can't be reflected/dodged, leaving your only real option to just hope you survive long enough to heal thru the damage and even then Mage's Fury/Implosion make that even harder as it makes it so that you're essentially playing with 80% health at all times.

So please, keep assuming that people that use Shieldbreaker just want an easy win button because if that was even remotely true, then people could just run in groups of Sload Users and get the same effect with even less effort.

Which part of: "Shieldbreaker adds 3.5k oblivion dps just by spamming light attacks, that's more than most duel builds have with all their skills" was too hard for you to understand?

Most stambuilds aren't able to reach 3.5k hps and that's without defiles but keep thinking it's balanced just because sorcs are unbalanced as well.
If this set existed for every spec/ defence everyone would run one of those because they give you do many free ap and you can easily backbar it while the 2,3,4 pc bonuses are still great

The part where you left out the Damage Shield Requirement to proc Shieldbreaker in the 1st place. To my knowledge, you can't forcibly apply a damage shield to an enemy target, meaning you would need the enemy to do that willingly for you to get the extra 2.5K oblivion damage Shield Breaker adds to your light attacks and last I checked, Oblivion Damage couldn't be boosted by anything so I'm not sure where you're getting 3.5K oblivion damage from.

And you completely miss the point. If you ran night mother's, exactly how much damage does that 5 piece give you over shieldbreaker Vs a non-shield user? You tell me exactly how much harder you hit on, say a surprise attack?

Let's take the other side.. SB gives a 5 piece that's useless Vs stam. Spriggarns gives a 5 piece that's useless Vs shields.. almost exact opposites, right?
Spriggarns adds maybe 4% dmg. That is NOTHING compared to 3200 oblivion dps. NOTHING.

Where is the balance?

I didn't miss the point. I was arguing against the point that the 2-4 on Shieldbreaker are irrelevant in this discussion because other sets can provide the same benefits.

Then, there's the fact that Spriggan still applies after the shield is removed thus making it superior in all other situations vs Shieldbreaker which only works in 1 situation and is completely useless outside that situation. A situational dependant set

Also, can someone also explain to me how people get more damage on Shieldbreaker because everyone keeps claiming the damage fluctuates between the 3200-3500 range but mine only deals 2500 golded out so I'd love to get that extra 1k damage out of it.

WeylandLabs · July 2018

Day number 1064 to try a nerf Shield breaker.

Keep trying ... pew pew pew pew (Stam cost) poisons-pew pew pew !

Hahahahaha !