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No changes to shieldbreaker?
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fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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BS. I have never played sorc, and I built magblade, warden and, for a time, templar as light armor builds with shields. I don't like heavy armor, and I think there is a fairly even split among armor types, last I checked a poll. As a cloaking magblade, light armor and shield is the obvious choice to help with cloak cost.The set needs no nerf at all as it's very niche and only works against a few particular builds.
Against most Templars, nightblades, DKs and Stam sorcs it's totally useless.
Shield Breaker is not as prevalent as Sloads, but stamblades that root out magblades with detect pots, then Mark and Shield Breaker spam are absolutely a thing.
I have no doubt that nothing has been done about this set, since it's old and niche, but that niche is bigger than you make it out to be. It also doesn't mean that Rock, Paper, Scissor's is a good approach to game balance.Edited by fred4 on July 16, 2018 7:46AM1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
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Exactly, with all gapclosers, snares and roots range matters in two scenarios:
1. As Feanor wrote on a wall of a keep.
2. In a zerg, when you stay in the safety of masses.
Every 1v1/small scale/BG fight if at least one player is melee, ends in melee range anyways. It has nothing to do with sorcs and shield breaker.
Again, give me one good reason why this set shouldn't be changed to proc ONLY when target has more than one shield?"We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.1 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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This!!! - and I truly don't know how many more exclamation points this deserves. Loads more!The feeling of helplessness against shields is imo largely created by the games terrible UI design that hinders the player fighting a shielding sorc from any proper assessment of the situation regarding their opponents health + their own dmg output.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The main issue i personally have with shieldbreaker isn´t it´s existance in the first place.
Well, i think its fairly sure the devs did not put it in the game because of their own feelings of frustration and helplessness. They put it in there because they saw shields in PvP are overperforming, and in need of a nerf - that, or a counter.
Nerfing is understandably unpopular (just imagine the forums - shieldbreaker whines are nothing compared to what you'd get), not to mention affecting PvE as well, so counter it was.
Personally i would have preferred a different solution than a set. Maybe give some abilities a natural shield-piercing property so that players who want to counter shields don't have to wrap their whole build around the idea. But - you take what you can get.
The problem with that line of thinking is: Since shieldbreakers introduction shields got nerfed multiple times and overall dmg increased drastically.
At the same time shieldsize however stayed roughly the same (outside of few extra CP you can spend on them now which is ~5 to 10% difference) due to how they scale - we didn´t get any maxmagica sets for 2 years now.
So over the past time shields got significantly weaker in relation to incoming dmg while at the same time sorc wasn´t given any new possibilities to adress defense outside of shields (which was the problem in the first place that still hasn´t been adressed).
So while the solution might or might not have been justified at the time it was introduced. It´s an archaic relic of bad balancing decision past that has no place in the current game anymore - simply bc shields aren´t that strong anymore and if people still feel they are the problem is in front of the computer.
I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that."shields were nerfed already in duration" - shields never last longer than 6 seconds under fire anyway, so all this did was to make a sorc who is not under fire recast his shields to feel safe. It had no effect for sorcs actually in combat.
This just proves you have no actual clue what you´re talking about.
I´ve had my shields run out in fights back in the day when they had 20s duration. So in the current combat with 6s shields you can bet me a million gold - my shields will run out more often than they´re actually broken by dmg. That´d be easy money.
It made an insane difference for any form of combat and put a huge strain on sustain (outside of harness - which got a lot more popular ironically due to the shield nerfs) because contrary to popular belief shields are the biggest magica drain for sorcs.
Edit: Funny enough shieldbreakers design is so terrible that the best counter sorc has to it is to actually stack more shields to try to get the heal from healingward.
Edited by Derra on July 16, 2018 9:04AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that.
And i'm fairly certain the devs responsible for overall PvP balance care a lot more about overall PvP balance than they care about bad players.2 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think this discussion is kinda pointsless without any Statement from the Combat team or from @ZOS_Wrobel .
Highly skilled pvp players with years of solo and smallscale experience while always playing outnumbered who also have an indepth understanding of combat balance show the main issues with these sets. Offer valid Solutions to it while still making these set viable against shields.
But there are coming other players who are claiming 3.5k dps on o sorc bypassing their Main defense is completly fine cause they "loOSe a FulL 5 PiECe" against stam players. Guess what. There is a guy running torugs + shieldbreaker with Oblivion damage enchant on his stamina Nightblade with 2h + Resto for the undogeable light attacks and still doing 3k surprise attacks on heavy armor targets. I dont Think he is in any disadvantage.
I dont Main sorc but i like to play it. I also did a lot of duels against any kind of class. Decent players melt through my 24k shields so easy i ran out of magicka trying to maintain them and dont have any Chance to go offensive.
I also dont have much problems killing sorcs on my other chars cause i know how to Land a proper burst with cc Timing. Ofc full duel sorcs with mine and atro camping are pure cancer we dont need to talk about but main point are shields and they are not as strong as many players claim.
So without statement from zos, discussion is pointless.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that.
And i'm fairly certain the devs responsible for overall PvP balance care a lot more about overall PvP balance than they care about bad players.
nothing about shieldbreaker is balanced though.
balance would imply that it allows for adequate counterplay - which isn´t available in the sorcerers toolkit as the class is designed around shields.
also the recent buffs to leftclickheros highly suggest your statement is further from the truth than you´d like it to be.Edited by Derra on July 16, 2018 9:12AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that.
And i'm fairly certain the devs responsible for overall PvP balance care a lot more about overall PvP balance than they care about bad players.
Honestly, I think the devs try their best, but they don't have the in-depth understanding to truly balance the game. Alcast said as much, after he met them. My only hope is that this will get better with the hire of Gilliam the Rogue in a combat balance advisory role.
Every major patch they try something they can implement with limited resources, on a limited budget, within limited time. Do they care enough to even try and get it right in the first place? Maybe now they will, but historically I doubt it. I think they throw things out half-baked and let the people on the PTS do the testing. They fix the most egregious issues. If something is a bit more niche, it never gets fixed.
Are they deliberately favoring bad players with some of these sets? Maybe not. Do they see it as a problem, when that accidentally happens? That's the real question. They may just be too busy to work on it, or they may indeed see an advantage in the Rock / Paper / Scissors approach to give new players a feeling of success.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that.
And i'm fairly certain the devs responsible for overall PvP balance care a lot more about overall PvP balance than they care about bad players.
nothing about shieldbreaker is balanced though.
It is a counterbalance to overperforming shields.balance would imply that it allows for adequate counterplay
it does - against sorcs.
Its the same kind of balance detect pots offer against cloak.
Edited by Sharee on July 16, 2018 9:55AM3 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
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I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that.
And i'm fairly certain the devs responsible for overall PvP balance care a lot more about overall PvP balance than they care about bad players.
nothing about shieldbreaker is balanced though.
It is a counterbalance to overperforming shields.balance would imply that it allows for adequate counterplay
it does - against sorcs.
Its the same kind of balance detect pots offer against cloak.
But can a sorc counter shieldbreaker?0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
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I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that.
And i'm fairly certain the devs responsible for overall PvP balance care a lot more about overall PvP balance than they care about bad players.
nothing about shieldbreaker is balanced though.
It is a counterbalance to overperforming shields.balance would imply that it allows for adequate counterplay
it does - against sorcs.
Its the same kind of balance detect pots offer against cloak.
It's not, both detect pots, mark, shieldbreaker and every other hardcounter in this game are stupidly unbalanced.
This game needs softcounters, like shields have and cloak has.
But sure give us more hardcounters, maybe a zerg breaker set that kills everyone who is running around in a bigger group than i am.
Imbalances aren't touched by implementing set because the imbalances continue to be in the game while the hardcounters just create a Rock paper scissors balance and that is only preferable for people who need to depend on luck rather than skill but from what you've been saying throughout any of your posts i see why you like this approach.
Shields are strong but they are fine until things like major / minor protection and major / minor maim make it into the equation because that's when most builds aren't able to break through a damage shield in a 1v1.
If you can't break through a sorcs shield at this point you are either a stamdk or your build is bad all other specs h can break through the shields of any OW sorc build that doesn't has 100% minor maim uptime.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that.
And i'm fairly certain the devs responsible for overall PvP balance care a lot more about overall PvP balance than they care about bad players.
nothing about shieldbreaker is balanced though.
It is a counterbalance to overperforming shields.balance would imply that it allows for adequate counterplay
it does - against sorcs.
Its the same kind of balance detect pots offer against cloak.
But can a sorc counter shieldbreaker?
In the same way my stam NB can counter a detect pot: just deal with it. Sometimes i live, sometimes i die. Its not the end of the world. Cloak and shields are still extremely powerful tools in the majority of encounters.Edited by Sharee on July 16, 2018 10:29AM2 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
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I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that.
And i'm fairly certain the devs responsible for overall PvP balance care a lot more about overall PvP balance than they care about bad players.
nothing about shieldbreaker is balanced though.
It is a counterbalance to overperforming shields.balance would imply that it allows for adequate counterplay
it does - against sorcs.
Its the same kind of balance detect pots offer against cloak.
But can a sorc counter shieldbreaker?
In the same way my stam NB can counter a detect pot: just deal with it. Sometimes i live, sometimes i die. Its not the end of the world. Cloak and shields are still extremely powerful tools in the majority of encounters.
How to deal with 3.5k dps on magicka sorc.
Pls indepth explanation. A simple "Just heal" isnt enough.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that.
And i'm fairly certain the devs responsible for overall PvP balance care a lot more about overall PvP balance than they care about bad players.
nothing about shieldbreaker is balanced though.
It is a counterbalance to overperforming shields.balance would imply that it allows for adequate counterplay
it does - against sorcs.
Its the same kind of balance detect pots offer against cloak.
You can outplay detect pots on nb - or play around their timer.
Also overperforming shields are a thing of the past. There is no such thing anymore. If at all shields are on the verge of underperforming -which is why everyone who can begins to abandon shield builds except for strict 1v1.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that.
And i'm fairly certain the devs responsible for overall PvP balance care a lot more about overall PvP balance than they care about bad players.
nothing about shieldbreaker is balanced though.
It is a counterbalance to overperforming shields.balance would imply that it allows for adequate counterplay
it does - against sorcs.
Its the same kind of balance detect pots offer against cloak.
But can a sorc counter shieldbreaker?
In the same way my stam NB can counter a detect pot: just deal with it. Sometimes i live, sometimes i die. Its not the end of the world. Cloak and shields are still extremely powerful tools in the majority of encounters.
If you can´t deal with a detect pot on a stamblade you´ve made the (bad) choice to not run shade or didn´t have one up.
If that option would exist for a magica sorcerer regarding shieldbreaker i wouldn´t be arguing - but it does not.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
huschdeguddzje✭✭✭✭Since we have more and more oblivion damage in the game (sload, knight slayer, oblivion enchants with infused and torugs) can we rewrok shieldbreaker already? I mean like what the ... is this? 100% guaranteed 2k oblivion damage without cool down on light attack that can be spammed without any costs 2 times/s? Seems legit to me.
If it goes to me 2s cool down would be enough to leave it useful but not max cheese.
Or can we have exactly the same set but called block breaker and another one roll breaker?
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Almost as legit as spamming Shields forever0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭huschdeguddzje wrote: »Since we have more and more oblivion damage in the game (sload, knight slayer, oblivion enchants with infused and torugs) can we rewrok shieldbreaker already? I mean like what the ... is this? 100% guaranteed 2k oblivion damage without cool down on light attack that can be spammed without any costs 2 times/s? Seems legit to me.
If it goes to me 2s cool down would be enough to leave it useful but not max cheese.
Or can we have exactly the same set but called block breaker and another one roll breaker?
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Almost as legit as spamming Shields forever
... I love your constructive and insightful response, I really appreciate your time spent on giving us some complex calculations about sorcs infinite sustain, this guy realy convinced me.
@Sharee one reason why Shieldbreaker shouldn't proc only on stacked shields? You wont tell me that you can't go through one shield, do you?"We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not to mention you can still force miss ST attacks after you have been revealed by a detect pot.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
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I´m fairly certain the devs put it in the game because they try to cater to bad players in pvp - which doesn´t work but so far they haven´t understood that.
And i'm fairly certain the devs responsible for overall PvP balance care a lot more about overall PvP balance than they care about bad players.
Obviously, that's why we had (and still have to some extent) the proc-set meta where you could kill people from sneak / cloak before they were even theoretically able to react.
That's why we had the Wrecking Blow meta, where stamina builds basically only had to spam one ability.
That's why they introduced Sloads, where people could completely or at least mostly ignore game mechanics in the form of mitigation, line-of-sight, range.
These builds were all so insanely complex to ensure we have good balance in PvP and did not at all cater to players unable or unwilling to press more than 1 or 2 buttons for a prolonged period of time.
ESO is primarily balanced around PvE. That's where the majority of the popluation is at. And only then PvP Balance is considered. It's an inept approach to class / ability balance but it is realtively cheap and the masses are more or less satisfied.
If they wanted true balance they would have to balance around PvP, since here it is important how classes perform relative to each other while in PvE it is in most cases only relevant how classes perform against certain thresholds (e.g. DPS over an extended period of time). And then in the next step they could implement class pve modifiers similar to the Slayer buffs to ensure that classes based on the PvP balance meet the thresholds in PvE. But that is another topic.2 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭The problem is sorcs refuse to play there class any other way I have magnb In heavy that doesn’t use cloak & has a burst heal they refuse to see you don’t have to go class cannon shields & be in all light armour to make the class work2
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »The problem is sorcs refuse to play there class any other way I have magnb In heavy that doesn’t use cloak & has a burst heal they refuse to see you don’t have to go class cannon shields & be in all light armour to make the class work
Medium or heavy Armour has no synergy with magSorc at all. Besides, whom are you going to kill without the added penetration and cost reduction of light Armour? If I want to zerg up I can do that on any other class as well.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »The problem is sorcs refuse to play there class any other way I have magnb In heavy that doesn’t use cloak & has a burst heal they refuse to see you don’t have to go class cannon shields & be in all light armour to make the class work
Maybe there is a reason why you have a magNB doing that and not a magsorc.
It´s always people claiming they can do it on other classes. Makes you wonder really.
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Dr.NRG✭✭✭✭Since we have more and more oblivion damage in the game (sload, knight slayer, oblivion enchants with infused and torugs) can we rewrok shieldbreaker already? I mean like what the ... is this? 100% guaranteed 2k oblivion damage without cool down on light attack that can be spammed without any costs 2 times/s? Seems legit to me.
If it goes to me 2s cool down would be enough to leave it useful but not max cheese.
Or can we have exactly the same set but called block breaker and another one roll breaker?
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Erm, no! Yes the set is very cheesy but id like to see a buff to it so sorcs will stop specing into shield stacking builds. Mag Sorcs are way overpoverd currently and need a hard counter! I got a 100% maxed out mag sorc too but have no fun playing it because this class is broken and unfair. Nerf shields a bit, get rid of runcage, nerf overload and buff crystal frags again by uping the dmg and returing the cc. Long story short make this class require skill again pls!.4 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've got it!
Since people claim that it's a disadvantage against stam users, let's make that disadvantage equal! Make it so attacking an unshielded target makes you take 2k oblivion damage instead of your opponent!
And if you don't like it, remember, just heal through it, cos only bad players die from shieldbreaker!Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.4 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've got it!
Since people claim that it's a disadvantage against stam users, let's make that disadvantage equal! Make it so attacking an unshielded target makes you take 2k oblivion damage instead of your opponent!
And if you don't like it, remember, just heal through it, cos only bad players die from shieldbreaker!
Yeah, the good ones pop resto ulti + invisibility potion and get the **** out of there.
Those 2k oblivion damage must then proc not only from Light attacks but also from abilities, b/c they can choose when they want to proc it. But on the receiving end you cannot choose when you take the damage.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , I would really like the know the reasoning why Sloads is (rightly) considered nerf-worthy, but Shield Breaker is considered fine despite dealing a multiple of the damage of Sloads. The end result is the same, you died to nothing but oblivion damage with very little to no counterplay. Except, that Shield Breaker kills you faster. How is 6k unavoidable damage in 6 seconds considered too strong, but but 20k unavoidable damage in 6 seconds is not? That's like saying: killing 1 person is bad. But killing 3 is fine.0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.
I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.
"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.
40k shields is impossible. This is coming from a sorc with 30k shields0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭VarisVaris wrote: »The problem is sorcs refuse to play there class any other way I have magnb In heavy that doesn’t use cloak & has a burst heal they refuse to see you don’t have to go class cannon shields & be in all light armour to make the class work
Medium or heavy Armour has no synergy with magSorc at all. Besides, whom are you going to kill without the added penetration and cost reduction of light Armour? If I want to zerg up I can do that on any other class as well.
How is a magicka class a) depending on block and heavy armor mitigation to survive (more strain on stam = less offensive power due to investment in defensive pools) , b) having less burst potential, c) having no execute and finally d) having no native access to unblockable/undodgable cc ever going to kill something? Yeah, poor sorcs have it so bad...
Sorc double standards are hilarious. You guys really are the new nightblades.
I love how most of you guys justified a lot of the sorc privileges by making a point that burst is highly delayed/telegraphed (= being counterable) over the course of the past years, yet you have received a foolproof (no fail cast possible) unblockable/undodgable dmg cc that is eliminating any counterplay (real counterplay, in the sense of doing x to prevent y to happen). Still waiting to see some sorc show a little decency and highlight how that is elevating sorc to a whole new and unhealthy level by eliminating its main weakness.
Such a cc has no place in the sorc template, justifying huge burst and finishing potential paired with top range & mobility (compared to other magicka classes) has to be offset by being easy to counter. There was a time when even sorcs were sensible enough to see that.
And why are you guys conveniently forgetting to add passive boosts to shields (introduction of defensive ultimates (resto ultimate) and sets (pirate skeleton)) providing major protection on demand to the discussion about whether shields are still overperforming or not? It's not new, but to say shields have only been nerfed (compared to ancient times) is not properly assessing the full picture.
I have given up hope on sorcs being able to give better balance input than the devs, in my honest opinion summerset has proven that all you are interested in is "buff my class", no matter the state of the class or whether it actually would need a little toning down.Edited by Mojomonkeyman on July 17, 2018 10:16AMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy2 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »The problem is sorcs refuse to play there class any other way I have magnb In heavy that doesn’t use cloak & has a burst heal they refuse to see you don’t have to go class cannon shields & be in all light armour to make the class work
Medium or heavy Armour has no synergy with magSorc at all. Besides, whom are you going to kill without the added penetration and cost reduction of light Armour? If I want to zerg up I can do that on any other class as well.
How is a magicka class a) depending on block and heavy armor mitigation to survive (more strain on stam = less offensive power due to investment in defensive pools) , b) having less burst potential, c) having no execute and finally d) having no native access to unblockable/undodgable cc ever going to kill something? Yeah, poor sorcs have it so bad...
Sorc double standards are hilarious. You guys really are the new nightblades.
I love how most of you guys justified a lot of the sorc privileges by making a point that burst is highly delayed/telegraphed (= being counterable) over the course of the past years, yet you have received a foolproof (no fail cast possible) unblockable/undodgable dmg cc that is eliminating any counterplay (real counterplay, in the sense of doing x to prevent y to happen). Still waiting to see some sorc show a little decency and highlight how that is elevating sorc to a whole new and unhealthy level by eliminating its main weakness.
Such a cc has no place in the sorc template, justifying huge burst and finishing potential paired with top mobility (compared to other magicka classes) has to be offset by being easy to counter. There was a time when even sorcs were sensible enough to see that.
And why are you guys conveniently forgetting to add passive boosts to shields (introduction of defensive ultimates (resto ultimate) and sets (pirate skeleton)) providing major protection on demand to the discussion about whether shields are still overperforming or not? It's not new, but to say shields have only been nerfed (compared to ancient times) is not properly assessing the full picture.
I have given up hope on sorcs being able to give better balance input than the devs, in my honest opinion summerset has proven that all you are interested in is "buff my class", no matter the state of the class or whether it actually would need a little toning down.
Not at all. Most sorcs said on the pts that cage would over-perform.. Hell, I was saying that even before the damage was added - when they made it unblockabe/undodgeable..
Cage is wrong, Shieldbreaker is wrong.
Two wrongs don't make a right - but while most sorcs want both nerfed, so many non-sorcs want to see cage gone but shieldbreaker remain.....?Edited by Biro123 on July 17, 2018 10:07AMMinalan owes me a beer.
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Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
elfantasmo✭✭✭There is a simple solution to this and I have posted it before. Just cap all oblivion damage to CP160.
That way new players have some help and can get a little AP whilst learning Cyro mechanics (obliv damage is absolutely not used in PVE zones). The power of this set added to the fact that new players will pug zerg gives them balance against their lack of experience/lower skill level.
The problem with this set is that it is an enabler for toxicity in a PVP zone. It has a single purpose and that is for people to troll and goad players (mostly sorcs) who have extensively learned and fine tuned their abilities to 1vx.
So my question is does Zos want to encourage toxicity?
@ZOS_Wrobel ?
When you get top tier fights, it doesn't matter what class you are on if 2 players 1v1, the fight should normally be balanced. A lot of the issue is the sets which give unfair advantages. This is exactly why particular sets and pots/poisons are not allowed when duelling in a top tier duelling guild.Edited by elfantasmo on July 17, 2018 10:19AM0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »The problem is sorcs refuse to play there class any other way I have magnb In heavy that doesn’t use cloak & has a burst heal they refuse to see you don’t have to go class cannon shields & be in all light armour to make the class work
Medium or heavy Armour has no synergy with magSorc at all. Besides, whom are you going to kill without the added penetration and cost reduction of light Armour? If I want to zerg up I can do that on any other class as well.
How is a magicka class a) depending on block and heavy armor mitigation to survive (more strain on stam = less offensive power due to investment in defensive pools) , b) having less burst potential, c) having no execute and finally d) having no native access to unblockable/undodgable cc ever going to kill something? Yeah, poor sorcs have it so bad...
Sorc double standards are hilarious. You guys really are the new nightblades.
I love how most of you guys justified a lot of the sorc privileges by making a point that burst is highly delayed/telegraphed (= being counterable) over the course of the past years, yet you have received a foolproof (no fail cast possible) unblockable/undodgable dmg cc that is eliminating any counterplay (real counterplay, in the sense of doing x to prevent y to happen). Still waiting to see some sorc show a little decency and highlight how that is elevating sorc to a whole new and unhealthy level by eliminating its main weakness.
Such a cc has no place in the sorc template, justifying huge burst and finishing potential paired with top mobility (compared to other magicka classes) has to be offset by being easy to counter. There was a time when even sorcs were sensible enough to see that.
And why are you guys conveniently forgetting to add passive boosts to shields (introduction of defensive ultimates (resto ultimate) and sets (pirate skeleton)) providing major protection on demand to the discussion about whether shields are still overperforming or not? It's not new, but to say shields have only been nerfed (compared to ancient times) is not properly assessing the full picture.
I have given up hope on sorcs being able to give better balance input than the devs, in my honest opinion summerset has proven that all you are interested in is "buff my class", no matter the state of the class or whether it actually would need a little toning down.
Not at all. Most sorcs said on the pts that cage would over-perform.. Hell, I was saying that even before the damage was added - when they made it unblockabe/undodgeable..
Cage is wrong, Shieldbreaker is wrong.
Two wrongs don't make a right - but while most sorcs want both nerfed, so many non-sorcs want to see cage gone but shieldbreaker remain.....?
Yet pretty much all magsorcs recently tend to state things like "rune cage hasn't changed except dmg compared to last patch = damage must be the problem!" No, its not. You guys know why it is a problem, because it eliminates any real counterplay to the very potent sorc burst (which is essential to keep a huge burst class in check, counterplay).
You guys know that masterstaff has been so popular that people have been using it, despite rune cage already being the better choice. You guys know that it takes about 3-6 months for every OP thing to even get noticed by the majority of players. It took even another totally uncalled buff and huge PTS advertisement ("wooooow, this magsorc on PTS is beating everyone with meteor -rune cage" - threads) to make its imbalance obvious to most.
Yet, you desperately try to keep the real imbalance and try to enforced fake-nerfs that won't touch the real problem, because it benefits you.
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