No changes to shieldbreaker?

Mayrael

Since we have more and more oblivion damage in the game (sload, knight slayer, oblivion enchants with infused and torugs) can we rewrok shieldbreaker already? I mean like what the ... is this? 100% guaranteed 2k oblivion damage without cool down on light attack that can be spammed without any costs 2 times/s? Seems legit to me.

If it goes to me 2s cool down would be enough to leave it useful but not max cheese.

Or can we have exactly the same set but called block breaker and another one roll breaker?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Gnozo

They will never ever Change this set. There are two players type out There using this set:

Casuals: they use this this cause of their lack of understanding of basic game mechanics like burst, cc and pressure and need this set to kill a sorc. In PC/EU there are a lot of players who only use light attacks and ofc are killing no one with this. So putting on shieldbreaker will give them 2k dps on a sorc for free just by doing light attacks. No need to learn mechanics or anything.

Saltminers: They put on this set cause they like to completly rek sorcs in a way where they habe 0 counterplay and feeling good and proud about it. They even enjoy the hate wisp they get for using this set or even make videos on youtube showing there epic zergsurf and killing sorcs with shieldbreaker. All from pc/eu know who i am talking about.

So ye, Bad players (and there are a lot) and players who enjoy using broken sets and destroying other players game experience.

There is no way to justify a set that gives you more then 2k dps on player that is actively definding himself and bypassing his main defense.

If @ZOS_Wrobel think this set is fine i happily volunteer to hopp on pts and duel his magicka sorc. I use whatever character he tells me with shieldbreaker and after these duels where i will 100% win by only spamming light attacks he should tell me that shieldbreaker is fine and it was a good duel.

Derra

They can´t nerf it now - it´ll be sooo good with the new lightattackspeed-buffset instead of 3500 dps you´ll get 7000dps from spamming bow lightattacks.

SO MUCH FUN!

LUL

Lord_Eomer

This set need no nerf, shield stacking and big shields required treatment like this

usmcjdking

Derra wrote: »

They can´t nerf it now - it´ll be sooo good with the new lightattackspeed-buffset instead of 3500 dps you´ll get 7000dps from spamming bow lightattacks.

SO MUCH FUN!

LUL

I hate shieldbreaker.

But I honestly want to see this. I really want to see a sorc get machinegunned down.

Gprime31

It’s the counter to the easy mode class. Why change it.

Feanor

Oblivion damage is the epitome of crutches. But ZOS wants bad players to feel „powerful“. Hence there won’t be changes.

Tommy_The_Gun

Only 20% dmg reduction to Rune Cage ? those are the only changes ? No CC changes ? No dodge / block condition changes ? No range changes ??!!
All the sorcerers should feel lucky I guess...

Galarthor

Gprime31 wrote: »

It’s the counter to the easy mode class. Why change it.

I think it is about time we get sets that are equally cancerous to all the other classes. Why do I have to go through a rotation and time my burst to kill a target. I also want the ability to kill my target simply by spamming light attacks while they have 0 counter play. Pretty sure those Shield Breaker guys would be on the forums asap and call for removal of those sets.

Shield Breaker is the only set in the game that is specifically made to completely rekt one class. That is very discriminatory and kinda reminds me of the segregation laws.

Sure, Shield Breaker affects all builds using shields and its really screwed up in the way it does. But no class is as vulnerable against it as magicka sorcs, as they have no other defensive tools to fall back to. And anybody saying "just slot mutagen" obviously has no idea for much much mutagen ticks for and how much DPS you get from Shield Breaker. Sure, sorcs could refrain from using shields when fighting somebody with a Shield Breaker set, but then they would simply die to the damage from the abilities weaved in between the light attacks.

Oblivion damage in general is an ill-conceived game mechanic. It is obviously build to cater to those players who want great results without putting in any effort. But since there are way more PvE players than PvP players, why not have Oblivion damage be relevant in PvE? Have it's damage reduced to 1DPS in PvP and increase it by 1,000,000% percent in PvE. That would give those players an additional 10k to 20k DPS. It would open so many doors for these people in PvE. Why should it Oblivion Damage benefit the few in PvP, when it could benefit a far greater population in PvE?

But unfortunately, I don't think they will do anything about Shield Breaker any time soon, despite it's obvious overperformance and discriminatory nature. It's like with the segregation laws, despite being completely wrong and highly discriminatory and most people understood that, it still took them ages to abolish them.

And just to be clear, I don't say that Shield Breaker is equally horrendous as the segregation laws were, they were far worse. But there are conceptual similarities.

Gprime31

Galarthor wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

It’s the counter to the easy mode class. Why change it.

I think it is about time we get sets that are equally cancerous to all the other classes. Why do I have to go through a rotation and time my burst to kill a target. I also want the ability to kill my target simply by spamming light attacks while they have 0 counter play. Pretty sure those Shield Breaker guys would be on the forums asap and call for removal of those sets.

Shield Breaker is the only set in the game that is specifically made to completely rekt one class. That is very discriminatory and kinda reminds me of the segregation laws.

Sure, Shield Breaker affects all builds using shields and its really screwed up in the way it does. But no class is as vulnerable against it as magicka sorcs, as they have no other defensive tools to fall back to. And anybody saying "just slot mutagen" obviously has no idea for much much mutagen ticks for and how much DPS you get from Shield Breaker. Sure, sorcs could refrain from using shields when fighting somebody with a Shield Breaker set, but then they would simply die to the damage from the abilities weaved in between the light attacks.

Oblivion damage in general is an ill-conceived game mechanic. It is obviously build to cater to those players who want great results without putting in any effort. But since there are way more PvE players than PvP players, why not have Oblivion damage be relevant in PvE? Have it's damage reduced to 1DPS in PvP and increase it by 1,000,000% percent in PvE. That would give those players an additional 10k to 20k DPS. It would open so many doors for these people in PvE. Why should it Oblivion Damage benefit the few in PvP, when it could benefit a far greater population in PvE?

But unfortunately, I don't think they will do anything about Shield Breaker any time soon, despite it's obvious overperformance and discriminatory nature. It's like with the segregation laws, despite being completely wrong and highly discriminatory and most people understood that, it still took them ages to abolish them.

And just to be clear, I don't say that Shield Breaker is equally horrendous as the segregation laws were, they were far worse. But there are conceptual similarities.

One class? Only sorcs can use shields? News to me

Derra

usmcjdking wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

They can´t nerf it now - it´ll be sooo good with the new lightattackspeed-buffset instead of 3500 dps you´ll get 7000dps from spamming bow lightattacks.

SO MUCH FUN!

LUL

I hate shieldbreaker.

But I honestly want to see this. I really want to see a sorc get machinegunned down.

BRRRRRRRRT

that moment when shieldbreaker soundcue starts to resemble a double base \../,

Ragnaroek93

Just screw the 5p bonus and turn the 5p into a stam version of Overwhelming Surge.

White wabbit

Guess zos don't see this set as an.issue so the many pointless threads are a waste

Biro123

I still don't get how the forums erupt with outrage over sloads pathetic 800 oblivion dps, but Vs 3200 from shieldbreaker, it's always L2P....

Ragnaroek93

Biro123 wrote: »

I still don't get how the forums erupt with outrage over sloads pathetic 800 oblivion dps, but Vs 3200 from shieldbreaker, it's always L2P....

I don't know any good player who says losing against Shieldbreaker is a l2p issue. The people who say that are the usual subjects with an agenda (who should just be ignored).

Derra

Biro123 wrote: »

I still don't get how the forums erupt with outrage over sloads pathetic 800 oblivion dps, but Vs 3200 from shieldbreaker, it's always L2P....

sloads was good against stamblades - shieldbreaker is mostly used by stamblades

ezio45

Gnozo wrote: »

They will never ever Change this set. There are two players type out There using this set:

Casuals: they use this this cause of their lack of understanding of basic game mechanics like burst, cc and pressure and need this set to kill a sorc. In PC/EU there are a lot of players who only use light attacks and ofc are killing no one with this. So putting on shieldbreaker will give them 2k dps on a sorc for free just by doing light attacks. No need to learn mechanics or anything.

Saltminers: They put on this set cause they like to completly rek sorcs in a way where they habe 0 counterplay and feeling good and proud about it. They even enjoy the hate wisp they get for using this set or even make videos on youtube showing there epic zergsurf and killing sorcs with shieldbreaker. All from pc/eu know who i am talking about.

So ye, Bad players (and there are a lot) and players who enjoy using broken sets and destroying other players game experience.

There is no way to justify a set that gives you more then 2k dps on player that is actively definding himself and bypassing his main defense.

If @ZOS_Wrobel think this set is fine i happily volunteer to hopp on pts and duel his magicka sorc. I use whatever character he tells me with shieldbreaker and after these duels where i will 100% win by only spamming light attacks he should tell me that shieldbreaker is fine and it was a good duel.

does he even have a magsorc? or play this game lol

Biro123

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I still don't get how the forums erupt with outrage over sloads pathetic 800 oblivion dps, but Vs 3200 from shieldbreaker, it's always L2P....

I don't know any good player who says losing against Shieldbreaker is a l2p issue. The people who say that are the usual subjects with an agenda (who should just be ignored).

Here's how it goes.:
Bad player with shieldbreaker. I win.
Average player with shieldbreaker. I escape or lose.
Good player with shieldbreaker. I lose.
3 bad players, one with shieldbreaker. I escape or lose.

Or without shieldbreaker.
Bad player. I win
Average player. I mostly win
Good player. I hold my own
3 bad players. I hold my own or win.

One set making that much difference is the very definition of broken.

BohnT

Let's look at shieldbreaker as a set at first:
2,3,4 pc bonuses are very good stamregen, wpndmg and max stam.
Now the 5pc:
Your light and heavy attacks deal 2100 oblivion damage to targets with a damage shield

1. The proc condition is as easy as it can get, light attacks are the most Basic thing in this game as you can use them depending on the weapon every 0.6 seconds just by clicking your left mouse button.
It's even easier than "deal damage to the closest enemy with a shield in an 8m radius" as that would require you to go meele range meaning you are vulnerable, also you have to be able to keep up with someone. Spamming light attacks is easier in this case as they come with a huge range on destro, resto and bows.

2. the next issue is the damage it provides. Oblivion damage ignores everything in this game there is no way to reduce that damage if you get hit by it. With no counterplay available the damage has to be so low that it can't be threatening to someone who isn't afk. This is not the case. Shieldbreaker provides 3.5k dps just by spamming light attacks, that's more than many top duel players have in a 1v1, with all their skills!
If anyone thinks he can survive 3.5k dps with a single hot or something then look at what vigor does in most cases without defiles taken into the matter: you are looking at a 1.5-2.5k hps that's not even close to deal with shieldbreaker and Rally doesn't provide an equal amount of healing.
Stamina classes that are build for healing as their main defence wouldn't be able to deal with shieldbreaker appropriately and that is a huge issue as sorcs are ment to have no good heal to keep shields in check.

3. the thing that bugs me the most with the set however is that it actively punishes someone in a way that almost always ends in his death because he is defending himself with the tools the class was given. That should ne ver be a thing active defensive counterplay should never be punishes in a way that makes it a bad decision to defend yourself in the first place

4. the next thing is the overall design of sets to remove overperfoming mechanics entirely just by equipping the set.
Sets should never be needed to be able to perform well against something else as this opens up a new issue.
The user of the set has a really easy time against his prey while everyone else is still facing an enemy they can't beat because the overperforming mechanic wasn't changed so it's still overperfoming vs everyone else.
And now we are here with Rock, paper, scissors balance and that is bad for a game with skill components. In R,P,S the best player will lose with his Rock if a 4 year old child is using paper and that is bad because it means no matter how good you are someone can just bring a specific thing and win against you and there is nothing you can do except for bringing the thing that hardcounters the enemy.

5. last thing that just pisses me off, why does a set called shieldbreaker not break shield but rather ignore them?
Change the set into actually breaking shields by increasing your damage done against shields by 15% with that change you can still burning through shields very fast but you don't get access to freaking 3.5k dps just by spamming light attacks on a build that deals 300 damage with each light attack.


I will probably risk a ban during this discussion here but that's something that needs to be done for some balance.

BohnT

There won't be changes about the set, Zos just wants Feedback about specific sets anything else gets ignored

Sharee

BohnT wrote: »

Shieldbreaker provides 3.5k dps just by spamming light attacks, that's more than many top duel players have in a 1v1, with all their skills!

If that was true, then it would take at least 10 seconds to kill a 30K HP player, even when the attacker is a top player facing an AFK one.

Reality check: You die from burst, not from sustained 3.5k DPS. And burst does far, FAR more than 3.5k DPS. Especially when the attacker is a sorc, who can line up curse, meteor, cage, frag and execute to hit all at the same time.

I really have to roll my eyes when i hear a sorc complain about 3.5K dps while he's blowing through 25K HP hitpoint bars in 1-2 seconds.

Feanor

@Sharee

You know a magSorc that runs with 30k HP? I don't. Most run with around 20k, which conveniently just take a little more than 6 seconds of light attack SB spam. Not to mention any other damage in between. Healing Ward, the main heal most Sorcs use, takes 6 seconds. And that's not even taking a 1v2 or 3 into the picture.

Sharee

Feanor wrote: »

@Sharee

You know a magSorc that runs with 30k HP? I don't. Most run with around 20k, which conveniently just take 5.7 seconds of light attack SB spam. Healing Ward, the main heal most Sorcs use, takes 6 seconds. And that's not even taking a 1v2 or 3 into the picture.

And a competent sorc will kill someone who's just spamming light attacks in half the time.

Ragnaroek93

Sharee wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Shieldbreaker provides 3.5k dps just by spamming light attacks, that's more than many top duel players have in a 1v1, with all their skills!

If that was true, then it would take at least 10 seconds to kill a 30K HP player, even when the attacker is a top player facing an AFK one.

Reality check: You die from burst, not from sustained 3.5k DPS. And burst does far, FAR more than 3.5k DPS. Especially when the attacker is a sorc, who can line up curse, meteor, cage, frag and execute to hit all at the same time.

I really have to roll my eyes when i hear a sorc complain about 3.5K dps while he's blowing through 25K HP hitpoint bars in 1-2 seconds.

That's why all strong duel builds utilize dots over burst

Zer0oo

I want a nb breaker aka sloads 2.0

1. mag Reg
2. Spell damage
3. Max Mag
4. If you deal damage against a Nb you put a 3k oblivion dot on them, that will also break cloak.

Balanced right? I sacrifice a whole 5th bonus to get a auto win against Nbs? You can also just out-heal it if you use the nb healing ulit, right?

Feanor

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Sharee

You know a magSorc that runs with 30k HP? I don't. Most run with around 20k, which conveniently just take 5.7 seconds of light attack SB spam. Healing Ward, the main heal most Sorcs use, takes 6 seconds. And that's not even taking a 1v2 or 3 into the picture.

And a competent sorc will kill someone who's just spamming light attacks in half the time.

It's not about just light attack spamming, but about the added pressure. If your opponent is a bad player, of course you can kill him. The decent ones however...

Biro123

And the problem then that just one bad player with this adding on to a fight with a competent player... Sorc has to spend half his cooldowns on defence to stay alive vs the competent player - yet now has 6 seconds to kill the bad player before he dies..

How is that possible without the free time to put together a good well-timed burst.?

And how the hell can anyone defend a set that suddenly makes a terrible player a much, much bigger threat than the competent player?

Apherius

Derra wrote: »

They can´t nerf it now - it´ll be sooo good with the new lightattackspeed-buffset instead of 3500 dps you´ll get 7000dps from spamming bow lightattacks.

SO MUCH FUN!

LUL

Balorgh + Ice comet + Rune cage + Crystal frag proc + Curse explosion + Fury proc, Hop they will like that.

Mayrael

Biro123 wrote: »

And the problem then that just one bad player with this adding on to a fight with a competent player... Sorc has to spend half his cooldowns on defence to stay alive vs the competent player - yet now has 6 seconds to kill the bad player before he dies..

How is that possible without the free time to put together a good well-timed burst.?

And how the hell can anyone defend a set that suddenly makes a terrible player a much, much bigger threat than the competent player?

Because most of forum users are here just to fight for their cause (buff my class, nerf others), they don't care about balance, health of the game, they want max cheese... And then they blame ZOS for lack of balance.

Silver_Strider

I use this set shamelessly and without discrimination.

I also use resource poisons, have about 11% into the Siphoner CP and get hate whispers all the time for it but honestly IDGAF at this point. Everyone and their mother is an infinite sustain, instagib Overload Sorc in PvP nowadays that I really don't feel bad about any of it.

"Shieldbreaker is cheese"
So is having an unblockable, undodgable burst combo from 40m away while also having 40k shield on top of it all so f*** off with your whiney attitude.

BohnT

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Sharee

You know a magSorc that runs with 30k HP? I don't. Most run with around 20k, which conveniently just take 5.7 seconds of light attack SB spam. Healing Ward, the main heal most Sorcs use, takes 6 seconds. And that's not even taking a 1v2 or 3 into the picture.

And a competent sorc will kill someone who's just spamming light attacks in half the time.

As the pts is up atm, i'm sure you can prove what you're saying here. You'll bring a magsorc and i'll bring the build you think that's so easy to counter, deal?