16 days later and still no comment from ZOS about it. Guess that's it then. The price of gold JC mats will come down because nobody can be bothered to actually make something legendary and just try to sell the mats...

Just did my max tier writ today... Same as every day. Today was: Ornate platinum necklace, 1 grain of pulverized antimony, and a shipment of silver.

Ooooo-wheee!

More of the same type of trash. I just want something interesting and exciting, even if it's not chromium grains... The only thing more dismal than these returns is the lack of response from ZOS. Which leads me to believe this is all working exactly as intended, and our concerns are falling on deaf ears.

For example, there's a still live 30 page thread about the outrageous outfit slot prices that has been going since February. Other than one "You all play nice" warning from the mods, there has been absolute zero comment from ZOS on that topic.

So it seems that when ZOS intends to do nothing about concerns and complaints... they mostly just stay silent.

Though they'll gladly take time to comment on every happy-happy post they can.

Esha76 wrote: »

I don't mean to stir the pot intentionally, but I'm going to do it anyway.

My theory on them matter, is that this is all quite intentional from ZOS.

Ever since the announcement of JC in Summerset there have been weekly threads popping up about JC being P2W. Sorry, but if you can't beat the likes of me in a dual, or PvP, because of my gold necklace... maybe PvP just isn't your thing then. That's the sad and rough reality of it.

Then right after that, people complained about having spent 100,000s of gold and AP on gold vendors... And that this JC is all so unfair!!! Etc.

Anyway, ZOS probably anticipated all this boo-hoo'ing and deliberately developed the JC system to give very poor returns. Oh, it's no oversight hirelings were not implemented. And because ZOS doesn't want to upset the likes of "WheresMyNecro420"... We get a sub-par crafting line here.

I also don't believe that anyone is looking for a bag of shinies to be dropped on them either. Or to have a character in full gold jewels within a week. But the ability to achieve constant progress would be appreciated. At least feel like you're making progress at the very least.


TL/DR: ZOS anticipated all the boo-hoo'ing, then deliberately created a sub-par crafting system that will have minimal return on effort in order to cater to those who were going to complain. Endlessly.

Just my theory as to why JC is in the state it's in.

So i can send you my master writ that requires you to spend 20 voucher on the trait stone and you will happily craft it ? There is no other source for swift, afaik there is no jewellery that drops in this trait (exemplary rings are not deconstructable) Its a writ for an epic, morkulin piece of swift jewellery that will give you 10 voucher when handing in.

Please explain how such a master writ is not broken, I fail to see it.

smacx250 wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Hmm. Seems to be working for me.

Grand Master crafter, got a Jewelry writ for 123 vouchers.

And that writ requires a legendary item, no? So ~700K worth of gold upgrade mats (ignoring all other mats!) to get ~125K gold worth of vouchers? Yeah, that's "working" alright!

Edit: ~700K not ~900k

No, it was not legendary. Epic.

I’m just trying to figure out why people buy when it’s the absolute worst time to do so?

Everything is new and shiny and people are losing their minds.

oops wrong thread

Elsterchen wrote: »

@Esha76 No hard feelings. I just didn't imagine anyone could believe that ZOS is screwing over its players intentionally, let alone be caught doing so with only 2 pics, that leave no room for further discussion:

[img][/img]

Personally I stick to "its broken", rather than concluding I hand my money to a firm that tries to place deals a five year old is able to identify as scum.

It is absolutely mind boggling how a developer can be so inattentive as to let something so nonsensical go live in a game. And yet a lot of things about jewelry crafting are just like this. JC is quite likely the worst thing they have ever added to this game.

And their complete silence about all the obvious problems they created makes it that much more shameful.

I really have to wonder if anyone is minding the store.

The master writs make no sense because the grind is supposed to be for upgrading jewelry. There is no reason to make the cost per writ voucher of jewelry mast writs out of alignment with other master writs because there is no reason to make the return on jewelry crafting daily writs worse than any other daily writ.

I haven't been tracking what mats are dropping from daily writs, but I don't remember seeing the valuable stuff drop. The writs have been profitable while jewelry prices have been inflated, but those have been crashing back to earth as demand has plummeted and supply is quite large. I suppose it is hard for them to do the math on this since the market set prices, but jewelry crafting master writs are in an absurd place right now.

Actually, if the 6 new jewellery traits would get the potent nirn treatment (28-50 voucher) and the 3 old jewellery traits fill the gap at lower trier master writs (6-10 voucher) it should be quite balanced again.

Please hold your pitchforks and listen: Jewellery crafting is grindy, agreed. We may safely assume its intended to be this way and going to be a little easier in a year or two. The one thing that makes a 10-voucher swift writ a rip off atm, are the traitstone cost, nothing else. Adjusting the writ value to bring it in line with other crafts traitstones (i.e. if you actively have to work for it = its rare = a better modifier for writ value) seems the best answer to solve the discrepancy between JC writs and those of other crafts.

redspecter23 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Actually, if the 6 new jewellery traits would get the potent nirn treatment (28-50 voucher) and the 3 old jewellery traits fill the gap at lower trier master writs (6-10 voucher) it should be quite balanced again.

Please hold your pitchforks and listen: Jewellery crafting is grindy, agreed. We may safely assume its intended to be this way and going to be a little easier in a year or two. The one thing that makes a 10-voucher swift writ a rip off atm, are the traitstone cost, nothing else. Adjusting the writ value to bring it in line with other crafts traitstones (i.e. if you actively have to work for it = its rare = a better modifier for writ value) seems the best answer to solve the discrepancy between JC writs and those of other crafts.

You still have the 10x material requirement to factor in.

Well, not sure I get your point -> i just did factor the 10*material requirement in. Just maybe not the way you like it.

To elaborate: I don't think a simple 10* multiplier will do, simply because it will make jewellery writs undaubtedly much more favourable to do then any other writs (Just imagine how far you would go for a 1k or even 2k voucher master writ!). So, no imo just increasing the vouchers granted by 10 doesn't solve anything, its just going to be player-favoured unbalanced that way.

I also do not like the idea of scaling down improvement requirements one level. I liked that idea at first, but then i started thinking about the uses of golden jewellery. Even with master writs, golden jewellery is a 99,9% luxury item only. Players don't "need" olden jewellery, and those that do run content that rewards golden jewellery (vet trails, PVP, HM dungeons, vMA) ...
In a scenario with blue and purple JC writs only, golden JC mats will become a pure luxury item, with no purpose.
I don't like that and I do think that should not happen.

A third "fix" I saw mentioned would be to plainly add 20 voucher to any jewellery master writ, to account for the costs of traitstones. Seems a simple solution, but imo, this will affect overall distribution of master writs negatively. If JC writs only start at 20+ voucher, will they drop with the same rate other writs (i.e. those starting at 2 / 5 or 6 voucher per writ), or will they drop with a lower rate to reflect their voucher value? I don#t think their is any simple answer to solve this, because up to now the chance of getting a master writ is quite balanced throughout the different crafts.

Thats why I think the best solution is to treat the new JC traits like nirn / roe when calculating writ value (taking the 10* cost into account) AND including old JC traits for lower-value writs to keep overall writvalue (across all trades) at balance.

Sure, one may argue that you'll need 10 antimony/pulverised zinc etc for the old traits as well, but does any of you really have to put in any efford to stock those up? Especially when compared to nirn or perfect roe i can safely assume your answer will be: No.

Yeah should either fix the droprate so that grains only drop and not those other things doing writs or add in hirelings to counter balance the awful droprates, for both JC & Alchemy

redspecter23 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Actually, if the 6 new jewellery traits would get the potent nirn treatment (28-50 voucher) and the 3 old jewellery traits fill the gap at lower trier master writs (6-10 voucher) it should be quite balanced again.

Please hold your pitchforks and listen: Jewellery crafting is grindy, agreed. We may safely assume its intended to be this way and going to be a little easier in a year or two. The one thing that makes a 10-voucher swift writ a rip off atm, are the traitstone cost, nothing else. Adjusting the writ value to bring it in line with other crafts traitstones (i.e. if you actively have to work for it = its rare = a better modifier for writ value) seems the best answer to solve the discrepancy between JC writs and those of other crafts.

You still have the 10x material requirement to factor in.

Well, not sure I get your point -> i just did factor the 10*material requirement in. Just maybe not the way you like it.

To elaborate: I don't think a simple 10* multiplier will do, simply because it will make jewellery writs undaubtedly much more favourable to do then any other writs (Just imagine how far you would go for a 1k or even 2k voucher master writ!). So, no imo just increasing the vouchers granted by 10 doesn't solve anything, its just going to be player-favoured unbalanced that way.

I also do not like the idea of scaling down improvement requirements one level. I liked that idea at first, but then i started thinking about the uses of golden jewellery. Even with master writs, golden jewellery is a 99,9% luxury item only. Players don't "need" olden jewellery, and those that do run content that rewards golden jewellery (vet trails, PVP, HM dungeons, vMA) ...
In a scenario with blue and purple JC writs only, golden JC mats will become a pure luxury item, with no purpose.
I don't like that and I do think that should not happen.

A third "fix" I saw mentioned would be to plainly add 20 voucher to any jewellery master writ, to account for the costs of traitstones. Seems a simple solution, but imo, this will affect overall distribution of master writs negatively. If JC writs only start at 20+ voucher, will they drop with the same rate other writs (i.e. those starting at 2 / 5 or 6 voucher per writ), or will they drop with a lower rate to reflect their voucher value? I don#t think their is any simple answer to solve this, because up to now the chance of getting a master writ is quite balanced throughout the different crafts.

Thats why I think the best solution is to treat the new JC traits like nirn / roe when calculating writ value (taking the 10* cost into account) AND including old JC traits for lower-value writs to keep overall writvalue (across all trades) at balance.

Sure, one may argue that you'll need 10 antimony/pulverised zinc etc for the old traits as well, but does any of you really have to put in any efford to stock those up? Especially when compared to nirn or perfect roe i can safely assume your answer will be: No.

The real question then is, if a legendary JC master writ rewarded 120 vouchers instead of 100, would you do it? What percentage of the players would do it? In my opinion, the 10x mat cost absolutely has to be considered for the reward to be viable. If I'm just looking for vouchers and I go to the store to shop for master writs, will I pick up the blacksmithing one for 250 vouchers or the JC one for 140? The JC one will cost over 10 times the amount of gold to create and the BS one still rewards more vouchers anyway.

Part of the increased material cost right now is the 10x mat requirement. A tempering alloy may be 6k but a chromium plating is 80k. Still more than 10 x the cost. The scarcity is only partly because they are still new. There are also no hirelings, which will bring supply down and they are not rewarded from daily writs, also keeping the supply low. Assuming neither of these things change, the cost will never drop down to 6000 gold per plating. It's just not a possibility. Due to this fact, a JC master writ will never be favorable compared to other master writs unless there is a more significant change than +20 vouchers.

I would not consider doing them now, but like all other master writs I might consider doing them in a year (when i am not buying the mats, but collected them). I do remember how painfull it was to even start doing master writs and since I only started collecting motifs once master writs were introduced it does feel quite similar. Sure, now a legendary master writ in blacksmithing, tailoring etc isn't much of a problem anymore for me, but when I started I had to put in alot of thought in even beeing able to complete the epic ones. I might be wrong, but I think crafted/upgraded legendary jewellery will not be as important as legendary weapons (with the expetions I named above) or legendary armor (for medium and light armor wearers) ... so I think even with chromium stocking up painfully slowly we will reach a point when demand is saturated by what the markets offer. Its just going to take some time.

Equally important, I expect that the pricing for chromium will not go down much. Imo it doesn't need too either, its a luxury item. Even for the hardest endgame content most jewellery just doesn't offer any important buff when looking at the difference between purple to golden quality. But really, are mastercrafter really shopping for the materials they need for writs? I don't, not anymore. Collected mats don't have a cost, only a value.

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Ajaxduo wrote: »

9 toons running max JC writs since the first week. I have a whole 2 Chromium Platings! amazing!

Wow your luckier than me, 3 grains only on 15 chars max jc since first week for me

I want to assume he means overall, from refining as well as writs. If that's 20 grains from just writs then he's got far better RNG than myself. I was at 3 grains from writs before I respecced 14 toons back to tier 1. I'm not wasting platinum for nothing.

redspecter23 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Actually, if the 6 new jewellery traits would get the potent nirn treatment (28-50 voucher) and the 3 old jewellery traits fill the gap at lower trier master writs (6-10 voucher) it should be quite balanced again.

Please hold your pitchforks and listen: Jewellery crafting is grindy, agreed. We may safely assume its intended to be this way and going to be a little easier in a year or two. The one thing that makes a 10-voucher swift writ a rip off atm, are the traitstone cost, nothing else. Adjusting the writ value to bring it in line with other crafts traitstones (i.e. if you actively have to work for it = its rare = a better modifier for writ value) seems the best answer to solve the discrepancy between JC writs and those of other crafts.

You still have the 10x material requirement to factor in.

Well, not sure I get your point -> i just did factor the 10*material requirement in. Just maybe not the way you like it.

To elaborate: I don't think a simple 10* multiplier will do, simply because it will make jewellery writs undaubtedly much more favourable to do then any other writs (Just imagine how far you would go for a 1k or even 2k voucher master writ!). So, no imo just increasing the vouchers granted by 10 doesn't solve anything, its just going to be player-favoured unbalanced that way.

I also do not like the idea of scaling down improvement requirements one level. I liked that idea at first, but then i started thinking about the uses of golden jewellery. Even with master writs, golden jewellery is a 99,9% luxury item only. Players don't "need" olden jewellery, and those that do run content that rewards golden jewellery (vet trails, PVP, HM dungeons, vMA) ...
In a scenario with blue and purple JC writs only, golden JC mats will become a pure luxury item, with no purpose.
I don't like that and I do think that should not happen.

A third "fix" I saw mentioned would be to plainly add 20 voucher to any jewellery master writ, to account for the costs of traitstones. Seems a simple solution, but imo, this will affect overall distribution of master writs negatively. If JC writs only start at 20+ voucher, will they drop with the same rate other writs (i.e. those starting at 2 / 5 or 6 voucher per writ), or will they drop with a lower rate to reflect their voucher value? I don#t think their is any simple answer to solve this, because up to now the chance of getting a master writ is quite balanced throughout the different crafts.

Thats why I think the best solution is to treat the new JC traits like nirn / roe when calculating writ value (taking the 10* cost into account) AND including old JC traits for lower-value writs to keep overall writvalue (across all trades) at balance.

Sure, one may argue that you'll need 10 antimony/pulverised zinc etc for the old traits as well, but does any of you really have to put in any efford to stock those up? Especially when compared to nirn or perfect roe i can safely assume your answer will be: No.

The real question then is, if a legendary JC master writ rewarded 120 vouchers instead of 100, would you do it? What percentage of the players would do it? In my opinion, the 10x mat cost absolutely has to be considered for the reward to be viable. If I'm just looking for vouchers and I go to the store to shop for master writs, will I pick up the blacksmithing one for 250 vouchers or the JC one for 140? The JC one will cost over 10 times the amount of gold to create and the BS one still rewards more vouchers anyway.

Part of the increased material cost right now is the 10x mat requirement. A tempering alloy may be 6k but a chromium plating is 80k. Still more than 10 x the cost. The scarcity is only partly because they are still new. There are also no hirelings, which will bring supply down and they are not rewarded from daily writs, also keeping the supply low. Assuming neither of these things change, the cost will never drop down to 6000 gold per plating. It's just not a possibility. Due to this fact, a JC master writ will never be favorable compared to other master writs unless there is a more significant change than +20 vouchers.

I would not consider doing them now, but like all other master writs I might consider doing them in a year (when i am not buying the mats, but collected them). I do remember how painfull it was to even start doing master writs and since I only started collecting motifs once master writs were introduced it does feel quite similar. Sure, now a legendary master writ in blacksmithing, tailoring etc isn't much of a problem anymore for me, but when I started I had to put in alot of thought in even beeing able to complete the epic ones. I might be wrong, but I think crafted/upgraded legendary jewellery will not be as important as legendary weapons (with the expetions I named above) or legendary armor (for medium and light armor wearers) ... so I think even with chromium stocking up painfully slowly we will reach a point when demand is saturated by what the markets offer. Its just going to take some time.

Equally important, I expect that the pricing for chromium will not go down much. Imo it doesn't need too either, its a luxury item. Even for the hardest endgame content most jewellery just doesn't offer any important buff when looking at the difference between purple to golden quality. But really, are mastercrafter really shopping for the materials they need for writs? I don't, not anymore. Collected mats don't have a cost, only a value.

You say yourself that chromium won't go down in price. I do agree with that. If there are no other system changes, it should stay similar to what it's at now, perhaps a bit lower. You could do these writs in a year after you accumulate enough materials, but couldn't you, instead of that, sell those gold and purple mats and buy tempering alloy and grain solvent and do blacksmithing writs instead? I'm not saying you can't do the jewelry writs. Of course over time a person can accumulate the materials to do them. I'm saying (and you're agreeing) that the cost of doing these writs is not likely to go down much over time. Why waste the gold mats? You could just sell them and use that gold to buy the items you would have spent the vouchers on anyway. It's like throwing away gold to do a jewelry master writ.

As said: collected mats don't have a cost, only a value. If i want to get anything voucher only thingy the value of 8 chromium platings might just be 120 voucher... considering I already payed a lot of gold for motif pages, just to be able to complete 1 6-7 voucher writ it doesn't seem too far off.

redspecter23 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Actually, if the 6 new jewellery traits would get the potent nirn treatment (28-50 voucher) and the 3 old jewellery traits fill the gap at lower trier master writs (6-10 voucher) it should be quite balanced again.

Please hold your pitchforks and listen: Jewellery crafting is grindy, agreed. We may safely assume its intended to be this way and going to be a little easier in a year or two. The one thing that makes a 10-voucher swift writ a rip off atm, are the traitstone cost, nothing else. Adjusting the writ value to bring it in line with other crafts traitstones (i.e. if you actively have to work for it = its rare = a better modifier for writ value) seems the best answer to solve the discrepancy between JC writs and those of other crafts.

You still have the 10x material requirement to factor in.

Well, not sure I get your point -> i just did factor the 10*material requirement in. Just maybe not the way you like it.

To elaborate: I don't think a simple 10* multiplier will do, simply because it will make jewellery writs undaubtedly much more favourable to do then any other writs (Just imagine how far you would go for a 1k or even 2k voucher master writ!). So, no imo just increasing the vouchers granted by 10 doesn't solve anything, its just going to be player-favoured unbalanced that way.

I also do not like the idea of scaling down improvement requirements one level. I liked that idea at first, but then i started thinking about the uses of golden jewellery. Even with master writs, golden jewellery is a 99,9% luxury item only. Players don't "need" olden jewellery, and those that do run content that rewards golden jewellery (vet trails, PVP, HM dungeons, vMA) ...
In a scenario with blue and purple JC writs only, golden JC mats will become a pure luxury item, with no purpose.
I don't like that and I do think that should not happen.

A third "fix" I saw mentioned would be to plainly add 20 voucher to any jewellery master writ, to account for the costs of traitstones. Seems a simple solution, but imo, this will affect overall distribution of master writs negatively. If JC writs only start at 20+ voucher, will they drop with the same rate other writs (i.e. those starting at 2 / 5 or 6 voucher per writ), or will they drop with a lower rate to reflect their voucher value? I don#t think their is any simple answer to solve this, because up to now the chance of getting a master writ is quite balanced throughout the different crafts.

Thats why I think the best solution is to treat the new JC traits like nirn / roe when calculating writ value (taking the 10* cost into account) AND including old JC traits for lower-value writs to keep overall writvalue (across all trades) at balance.

Sure, one may argue that you'll need 10 antimony/pulverised zinc etc for the old traits as well, but does any of you really have to put in any efford to stock those up? Especially when compared to nirn or perfect roe i can safely assume your answer will be: No.

The real question then is, if a legendary JC master writ rewarded 120 vouchers instead of 100, would you do it? What percentage of the players would do it? In my opinion, the 10x mat cost absolutely has to be considered for the reward to be viable. If I'm just looking for vouchers and I go to the store to shop for master writs, will I pick up the blacksmithing one for 250 vouchers or the JC one for 140? The JC one will cost over 10 times the amount of gold to create and the BS one still rewards more vouchers anyway.

Part of the increased material cost right now is the 10x mat requirement. A tempering alloy may be 6k but a chromium plating is 80k. Still more than 10 x the cost. The scarcity is only partly because they are still new. There are also no hirelings, which will bring supply down and they are not rewarded from daily writs, also keeping the supply low. Assuming neither of these things change, the cost will never drop down to 6000 gold per plating. It's just not a possibility. Due to this fact, a JC master writ will never be favorable compared to other master writs unless there is a more significant change than +20 vouchers.

I would not consider doing them now, but like all other master writs I might consider doing them in a year (when i am not buying the mats, but collected them). I do remember how painfull it was to even start doing master writs and since I only started collecting motifs once master writs were introduced it does feel quite similar. Sure, now a legendary master writ in blacksmithing, tailoring etc isn't much of a problem anymore for me, but when I started I had to put in alot of thought in even beeing able to complete the epic ones. I might be wrong, but I think crafted/upgraded legendary jewellery will not be as important as legendary weapons (with the expetions I named above) or legendary armor (for medium and light armor wearers) ... so I think even with chromium stocking up painfully slowly we will reach a point when demand is saturated by what the markets offer. Its just going to take some time.

Equally important, I expect that the pricing for chromium will not go down much. Imo it doesn't need too either, its a luxury item. Even for the hardest endgame content most jewellery just doesn't offer any important buff when looking at the difference between purple to golden quality. But really, are mastercrafter really shopping for the materials they need for writs? I don't, not anymore. Collected mats don't have a cost, only a value.

You say yourself that chromium won't go down in price. I do agree with that. If there are no other system changes, it should stay similar to what it's at now, perhaps a bit lower. You could do these writs in a year after you accumulate enough materials, but couldn't you, instead of that, sell those gold and purple mats and buy tempering alloy and grain solvent and do blacksmithing writs instead? I'm not saying you can't do the jewelry writs. Of course over time a person can accumulate the materials to do them. I'm saying (and you're agreeing) that the cost of doing these writs is not likely to go down much over time. Why waste the gold mats? You could just sell them and use that gold to buy the items you would have spent the vouchers on anyway. It's like throwing away gold to do a jewelry master writ.

As said: collected mats don't have a cost, only a value. If i want to get anything voucher only thingy the value of 8 chromium platings might just be 120 voucher... considering I already payed a lot of gold for motif pages, just to be able to complete 1 6-7 voucher writ it doesn't seem too far off.

But those 8 chromium platings could be sold for 640,000 gold (at 80k each). 120 vouchers is worth approximately 120,000 gold. Like I said, you can do that. It's up to you, but please understand that it's a massive loss.

Undoubtedly it looks like a massive loss now. Remember when kuta was rare? Even at 10k per kuta, I would rather store then sell it (just so I have enought for myself when needed). Its an individual choice and anyone taking the 10k would just be as happy as i was when I needed that kuta for my gear.

Nevertheless, there is something I like to point out again as you as well as i have missed it in the argument. My proposal included to treat the 6 new jewellery traits like potent nirn (i.e. in the formular it would be working multiplicative (just not a 10* multiplier). Hence those (now) 100 voucher writs may safely be expectet to mimic the legendary * potent nirn * (rare) set master writs. For rarer sets that would be ~ 238 voucher, which is a considerable value, i guess. Equally the new jewellery trait * epic * (rare) set writs would be comparable to epic * potent nirn * (rare) set master writs ... with a value of ~ 40- 60 voucher. Just the epic * old jewellery trait * (rare) set writs would have a chance for a value below 20 voucher.

Just please don't forget, I don#t just want a + 20 voucher addition, but a reasonable change of how the writ value is calculated to bring it more in line with other crafts.