Sorc burst just doesn't one-shot people... Well, it does, but very, very rarely. Even if building for max damage (and yes, I've commonly ran 0-sustain DW builds in the past) - but they don't work.
There is only a small number of people in cyro you can one-shot with them. You have no advantage of stealth to be able to pick and choose your targets - you just have to take what comes - and there are soo many that you cannot 1-shot - which ends up with you running dry... therefore, sorcs have to build for sustain. Always have done, and give up on this 'one-shot paradigm'..
btw, on your vid, getting hit by both cage and reach seems odd.. I can't see a reason to run both, so I'm not sure if you got hit by 2 sorcs..
And cage only really works on cloak because of it's delay. Still needs to be cast on someone not cloaked.. I'd much rather it was instant instead instead of having this weird 'delay' (kind of like travel time but without travel time) - then you'd never see it 'go through cloak and wouldn't be able to complain..' Of course being able to fire an overload and then then cage just before it lands would be complain-worthy!!
Honestly though, if ganky-bow builds are no longer viable, it isn't all on cage.. it's the damage hike overall which makes it so. (and I suspect moreso sload for breaking cloak - though not in this instance).
I've kind of decided or figured out depending how you look at it; that just the reason I do not like playing my mag sorc much because I just dont like having to keep recasting shields all the time, so at the same time; when I see one of these sorcs its still the same answer. Have enough burst to drop their shields so thats all they can do. Just sucks when you get hit in the middle of larger figthing from somewhere in the back, but thats just part of the game. Really need the NBs to take those guys out back there before they get a chance in that situation.
@DDuke
As a magSorc main I whole heartedly feel bad for the design of Rune Cage. Medium armor builds were also never the problem, rollerblades are annoying but counterable. We as MagSorcs begged for a tool kit to help deal with meta tanks. This included debuffs to resistances on frags or some ability. Meta tanks are what's annoying in PvP. Not medium armor builds. I have a buddy who plays a stamina Sorc and our duels go back and forth, really fun fights. Anyone with 30k resist and 25k+ health is just crutching on the game's design to survive 1v1s until their buddies show up.
Got hit with a 5k leap the other day in light armor. He played defensively enough until his friend's came and Xv1'ed me. That's what this game has come to. High defense, minimal damage, run in groups.
I'm just like you DDuke, high damage, moderate sustain, and depending on my class's defense mechanism to survive. Then I get sloaded and shieldbreakered to death.
@DDuke
As a magSorc main I whole heartedly feel bad for the design of Rune Cage. Medium armor builds were also never the problem, rollerblades are annoying but counterable. We as MagSorcs begged for a tool kit to help deal with meta tanks. This included debuffs to resistances on frags or some ability. Meta tanks are what's annoying in PvP. Not medium armor builds. I have a buddy who plays a stamina Sorc and our duels go back and forth, really fun fights. Anyone with 30k resist and 25k+ health is just crutching on the game's design to survive 1v1s until their buddies show up.
Got hit with a 5k leap the other day in light armor. He played defensively enough until his friend's came and Xv1'ed me. That's what this game has come to. High defense, minimal damage, run in groups.
I'm just like you DDuke, high damage, moderate sustain, and depending on my class's defense mechanism to survive. Then I get sloaded and shieldbreakered to death.
Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Lol i have been obliterating people with this prior to the buff, i can't wait. Curse, meteor, cage, wrath is easily the most broken skill combo in the game. It doesn't only effect bad players. It kills everyone equally in the right hands.
If the sorc does this combo to you at full health they don't respect you and think you're a noob. Good builds don't get zero'd from full hp, but good sorcs don't attempt it at 100% against good players either, they shoot for about 18k hp where it's almost a guarantee kill vs any one.
@Brutusmax1mus
You realize that the first 3 abilities in that combo don't cause initial damage right? And that your opponent would have to sit at 18k health for 3 GCDs for this to even have a chance at working? With the meta health for most players being 25k they would have to be sitting below 70% health for 3 GCDs without healing, CCing you, or pressuring you into breaking your combo. While I agree that potatoes will let you do this to them, any player with half a brain will not. It's strong on live if and only if you combo curse, meteor, rune cage, frag, and hope to get the execute off on them. But that's 5 GCD, and the stars all aligning, mostly everything critting, and the player deciding not to heal.
This is a hard to pull off, but good combo on live (console), but will be probably over tuned with summerset between the light attack buffs and rune cage buff.
On Xbox right now, I actually run defensive rune instead of rune cage and I use streak to stun for Meteor. I find the streak stun to be far more reliable in a 1vx situation, especially if your meteor target steps behind another player or two and you cannot reliably get a rune cage on them. In 1v1 rune cage is better. But against multiple opponents the streak stun catches everyone not cc immune.
Once we get Summerset and I can equip a full monster set, my sorc build is going to be incredibly strong though.
This is a textbook definition of irony right there.
I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.
"Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).
See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.
That's textbook definition of bad balance.
This is a textbook definition of irony right there.
I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.
"Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).
See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.
That's textbook definition of bad balance.
A two shot snipe ganker complaining about a FOUR step Sorc gank. GTFO of here man, nobody isn’t taking you seriously anymore.
The only issue with rune cage is the long range, if that were cut to 12-18 meters it would be perfectly fine.
Gank build, Duke.
Also, pressing button for easy mode invisibility on demand =/= stealth.
Bow build... This is totally a gank build.
Spammable invisibility will remain a noob tool in my eyes and is not in the same league with proper stealth by using LoS, environment, etc.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=GankingTOP DEFINITION
Ganking
It is a word commonly used in online video games, usualy used in an MMORPG. Ganking is the process in which a group of charecters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves, Or when one high level player does the same action to a player way below his or her own level
A "ganker" attacks people who are outnumbered or otherwise at a disadvantage. I attack people when I'm outnumbered, never the other way around unless it's a sorc (in which case they deserve every gank & tbag in the universe for playing such an easymode class, unless they play like a heavy armor melee mSorc or other non-meta thing I can respect).
cpuScientist wrote: »Every stun that goes through roll dodge is the bane of stamBlades. Espeict if they build for pure gank. If they build defense into their build. They survive the combo and can go away heal and burst you down. Whereas that magSorc now has to build 170 ulti with no ulti gen passives. Or a burst combo out of stealth. The stamBlade burst is just better. Good stamBlades not calling anyone here bad, but good stamBlades either cloak as soon as meteor gets on them they vigor block in stealth then get rune caged break free and they are alive. Or they weren't quick enough but still survive if a good crit wasn't in there. Because you cannot land curse meteor cage on a good or even half way decent stamBlade let alone land endless fury curse meteor cage frag. If you get that combo off on a stamBlar that is either the most POTATO stamBlade NA/EU or they were completely out of resources. And again it's all a setup to kill 1 guy then wait for that ulti. Whereas a stamBlade gets theirs up fast.
And addmitedly this has made stamBlades an easier target. The vast majority of cyro are in tanky Stam builds and this doesn't do one damn thing against them. Not a damn thing. The full combo can hit and it does about 18-20k damage and they just boop heal up. And it becomes a long drawn out fight until their mates get there. Or I streak away and hope he follows while I rebuild that utli and chip away at their health PRAYING they are too potato to heal.
My mahSorc is a potato farmer. With no real way to kill decent tanky players because my full combo has a cieling and I do not have e the element of surprise. So it's basically a duel.
Bow build... This is totally a gank build.
Spammable invisibility will remain a noob tool in my eyes and is not in the same league with proper stealth by using LoS, environment, etc.
Ganking = Killing players (or trying to) without the intention of giving them a chance to fight back. How this goal is achieved doesn't matter imo. Attacking from steath isn't automatically ganking, but oneshotting from stealth is, unless there is a clear tell that allows the player to react and counter the incoming damage.
The players in your video didn't plan to gank you. They just took advantage of your bad position, which was your fault. Could have sniped from the wall. Could have approached from a different position, with a better escape route/LOS nearby. Could have used Shadow Image to get out. Could have focused the sorc, instead of a more or less harmless low level player. Instead of jumping into the middle of a zerg and expecting them to let you escape, despite knowing how dangerous sorcs can be ...
And a lot more things could have killed you there (including pre Summerset Rune Cage), so it is a bad demonstration of the "OPness" of Rune Cage or magsorc in general.
And no, ganking it isn't the only way to play a stealth build. Any build which utilizes stealth in some way is a stealth build. So pretty much all nb builds with cloak (unless you are only talking about sneak mode - but then your mentioning of GW2 doesn't make any sense, because there is no sneak in said game). Including (but not limited to) your beloved "rollerblades".
This is a textbook definition of irony right there.
I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.
"Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).
See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.
That's textbook definition of bad balance.
A two shot snipe ganker complaining about a FOUR step Sorc gank. GTFO of here man, nobody isn’t taking you seriously anymore.
The only issue with rune cage is the long range, if that were cut to 12-18 meters it would be perfectly fine.
"Ganker", sigh... that word has such a negative connotation and most people don't really understand what it means.
A "ganker" attacks people who are outnumbered or otherwise at a disadvantage. I attack people when I'm outnumbered, never the other way around unless it's a sorc (in which case they deserve every gank & tbag in the universe for playing such an easymode class, unless they play like a heavy armor melee mSorc or other non-meta thing I can respect).
I prefer the term "stealth build" because that's what it boils down to: utilizing stealth to my best advantage (much like I'd do with rogue in WoW, Thief in GW2, Assassin in BnS and so on and so on).
Lacking stunlocks and any other useful manner of utilizing stealth, it boils down to one shots in ESO - much like most builds in the game that don't want to get stuck behind dmg shield spam & instaheals to full from behind permablock.
I feel sad I have to explain this to you.
Also for the steps required to land Asylum Snipe properly:
- Avoid detection.
- Situate yourself exactly between 15-20m of the target.
- Queue up snipe without getting too close (like I did on the video) or too far away during the cast (means predicting enemy movements).
- Hit light attack exactly as the cast finishes (not too soon or it doesnt go off, not too late or you screw up the combo).
- Land bombard (one of the few "skill shots" in this game), requires an understanding of the bombard cone and where it can hit. Hitting moving targets requires prediction of enemy movement, much like landing head shots in FPS games.
- Profit. If target didn't have damage shield up and wasn't megatanky.
Steps after that: cloak & escape before you get one shot by some random sorcerer smashing head on the Rune Cage button to get a free kill on anyone who dares not to play a toxic meta tank build.
A "ganker" attacks people who are outnumbered or otherwise at a disadvantage. I attack people when I'm outnumbered, never the other way around unless it's a sorc (in which case they deserve every gank & tbag in the universe for playing such an easymode class, unless they play like a heavy armor melee mSorc or other non-meta thing I can respect).
With otherwise at a disadvantage you mean for example that they´re unaware of your presence because your invisible? That kind of disadvantage?
If sorcs so easymode do some 1vX on it - you might find it not being as easy as roflstomping people in duels.
In general it´s a pretty rich statement to make - coming from a NB.
cpuScientist wrote: »The vast majority of cyro are in tanky Stam builds and this doesn't do one damn thing against them. Not a damn thing. The full combo can hit and it does about 18-20k damage and they just boop heal up. And it becomes a long drawn out fight until their mates get there. Or I streak away and hope he follows while I rebuild that utli and chip away at their health PRAYING they are too potato to heal.
My mahSorc is a potato farmer. With no real way to kill decent tanky players because my full combo has a cieling and I do not have e the element of surprise. So it's basically a duel.
Except the entire game is built around one shots playing builds that give opponents no chance of ever killing you. [...]
Nope, as you can see I cloak right after getting the kill, before taking any real damage.
One of the few things apart from Sloads breaking cloak right now? Rune Cage.
Frag, Ambush+Incap, another snipe etc all would've failed to kill me there.
Previous Rune Cage also would've let me CC break & dodge roll into cloak instead of falling into execute range with the damage I took (I'm at 35% health when I break free & hit dodge roll key).
Soul Assault would've killed me though if the rest of the zerg focused me (otherwise ez block+Vigor->cloak).
These builds do not utilize stealth to combo, they do not utilize it for anything but escaping & cheesing out infinite stamina for dodge roll spam (the main point of these builds) with their 3k+ regens.
You rarely (if ever) see them actually cloak->sneak for example, or cloak->heavy attack+SA stun, cloak->asylum snipe etc - stealth combos like you'd have in other MMOs (which usually have entire dedicated bars for stealth skills).
Stealth really is just a "side dish" for those builds, they're called "rollerblades" for a reason.
Except the entire game is built around one shots playing builds that give opponents no chance of ever killing you. [...]
Exaggeration doesn't make your arguments more comprehensible.
And maybe you should try noCP. There are issues too, but not so much with 30k shields, instant full heals and infinite sustain oneshot megatanks.
Nope, as you can see I cloak right after getting the kill, before taking any real damage.
One of the few things apart from Sloads breaking cloak right now? Rune Cage.
Frag, Ambush+Incap, another snipe etc all would've failed to kill me there.
Previous Rune Cage also would've let me CC break & dodge roll into cloak instead of falling into execute range with the damage I took (I'm at 35% health when I break free & hit dodge roll key).
Soul Assault would've killed me though if the rest of the zerg focused me (otherwise ez block+Vigor->cloak).
Mark, detect pots, lightning heavy attack, random aoe, Curse, SA, Sloads, ... Cloak breaking and undodgeable stuff isn't new and always needs to be taken into consideration.
And with 35% hp before Cage dmg, even the initial hit from Fury + LA could be enough to put you into execute range. Or Reach DoT + potential enchant proc.
These builds do not utilize stealth to combo, they do not utilize it for anything but escaping & cheesing out infinite stamina for dodge roll spam (the main point of these builds) with their 3k+ regens.
You rarely (if ever) see them actually cloak->sneak for example, or cloak->heavy attack+SA stun, cloak->asylum snipe etc - stealth combos like you'd have in other MMOs (which usually have entire dedicated bars for stealth skills).
Stealth really is just a "side dish" for those builds, they're called "rollerblades" for a reason.
I see nbs utilizing stealth both offensively and defensively all the time. And most of them turn into free kills once they are marked, so it is hard to belive stealth is only a "side dish" for them. Personally i'm using stealth mostly for defensive purposes, but even with cloak not being my only defense, it doesn't mean it is not an important part of my build.
Your narrow definition of certain builds isn't universally true. You CAN play different stealth builds. You just don't want to. Which is fine of course. But the choice is still there.
They truly are.
Why do you think Youtube/Twitch are filled with magicka sorcs all playing more or less the same build, where as you'll really have to struggle to find even one person playing a bow build for example?
Players gravitate towards easy, that's why you see shield stackers, megatanks & infinite regen rollerblades everywhere.
Previous patch I would've said rollerblade was the easiest class in the game to play, but that honor has to go to sorcs now with the I-Win Cage existing & sending those infinite regen rollerblades to respawn at the nearest keep as well.
They truly are.
Why do you think Youtube/Twitch are filled with magicka sorcs all playing more or less the same build, where as you'll really have to struggle to find even one person playing a bow build for example?
Players gravitate towards easy, that's why you see shield stackers, megatanks & infinite regen rollerblades everywhere.
Previous patch I would've said rollerblade was the easiest class in the game to play, but that honor has to go to sorcs now with the I-Win Cage existing & sending those infinite regen rollerblades to respawn at the nearest keep as well.
No. People gravitate towards playable.
Sorcs playing the same build is just a giant strawman argument which is in no way related to easy/hard to play.
It´s like me saying you´re a typical nb bc you cloak and sneak.
But even if the class got patched easy - you can´t blame the people playing it for it. Most sorcs you meet have been playing the class for ages.
As for your other part - it´s irrelevant how many players are around. If you instagib one out of 5 the fight happened between you and that player. You might or might not be disadvantaged against the other 4 left - depending on their situational awareness.
But you killed the first one from an advantaged position - which is textbook example of a gank.
TOP DEFINITION
Ganking
It is a word commonly used in online video games, usualy used in an MMORPG. Ganking is the process in which a group of charecters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves, Or when one high level player does the same action to a player way below his or her own level