Meteor + Rune Cage/Petrify/Aspect of Terror Combination Needs to be Looked At

Beardimus

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

Ragnaroek93

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Aedaryl

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

Ragnaroek93

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

"Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?" - But that's exactly what people are already doing. I've heard that a certain magsorc on a non pet open world build actually defeated the two top duel build hero nbs in this patch btw. I'm wondering what happens when magsorcs start to play duel builds as well? Server explodes?

Aedaryl

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

"Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?" - But that's exactly what people are already doing. I've heard that a certain magsorc on a non pet open world build actually defeated the two top duel build hero nbs in this patch btw. I'm wondering what happens when magsorcs start to play duel builds as well? Server explodes?

Tell me why the bleedblade I spoke about is a "duel" build ? It has cloak, shadow Image, very good healing, insane damage and very good sustain + 28k resistances.

I want to see theze "openworld" sorc build killing top bleedblade. The difference between bleedblade and magsorc in duel is that magsorc has to destroy his sustain, and remove ablities like streak and dark conversion to put more 1v1 focused skills, making theze builds not viable in openworld because they have very low mag sustain, very low stam sustain, and they aren't even using streak and dark conversion.

DDuke

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

"Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?" - But that's exactly what people are already doing. I've heard that a certain magsorc on a non pet open world build actually defeated the two top duel build hero nbs in this patch btw. I'm wondering what happens when magsorcs start to play duel builds as well? Server explodes?

Tell me why the bleedblade I spoke about is a "duel" build ? It has cloak, shadow Image, very good healing, insane damage and very good sustain + 28k resistances.

I want to see theze "openworld" sorc build killing top bleedblade. The difference between bleedblade and magsorc in duel is that magsorc has to destroy his sustain, and remove ablities like streak and dark conversion to put more 1v1 focused skills, making theze builds not viable in openworld because they have very low mag sustain, very low stam sustain, and they aren't even using streak and dark conversion.

Do you know why everyone plays rollerblade in open world & not one of these bleed builds? Hint: it has something to do with a defense that scales extremely well in 1vX, where as high dmg bleed builds aren't built towards blocking/mitigating multiple people (especially if they run full bleed like DW/2H and no S&B) and can't really utilize that defense much at all.

Since these builds are heavy armor they also lack a key component to mobility: Shuffle - which means they have to run Forward Momentum in open world, which means no burst heal... which is no bueno in 1vX.


But I'm not one to write off builds as "unviable" just because I don't play them - I'm certain someone could make a heavy armor bleedblade work in open world as well. I'm just telling you why most people don't run them there.

tannips

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

tannips wrote: »

Learn to read your opponent. Break free when you get cc'd/feared/whatever. I know it's not always a guarantee as people time meteor so you don't have time to react to the cc, but there's nothing to really look at. It's a good combo. Build for more tankiness if you find yourself dying to it on the regular. It's really not that different from using a stun and using any other offensive ult.

It is totally different than most other offensive ults.

The opponent can cast meteor first, and stun second, meaning they have the luxury of a guaranteed stun at the exact moment before the meteor hits. They don't have that luxury with another ultimate because most of the time they have to use stun first, then activate the ult second, which gives me enough time to break free from the stun.

So what about dawnbreaker of smiting? Stuns and gives a lot of upfront damage. What about that overload + crystal blast combo? What about incap? What about dizzy swing into leap? Regardless of which you ability you're using first, if it's gonna hit then it's gonna hit. We shouldn't be trying to punish skillful gameplay because some people haven't learned to counter it. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of things in game that aren't skillful and do indeed need looking at, but an ability combo isn't one of them.

TheMystid

What about using your CC on the sorc whan you hear Meteor sound/see animation?

Beardimus

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

LOL absolutely spot on. It's hilarious each time.

Killset

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

Umm.. What build do run to get these tool tips on your Bleedblade with no weapon damage glyphs?

Aedaryl

Killset wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

Umm.. What build do run to get these tool tips on your Bleedblade with no weapon damage glyphs?

The classic Bone pirate + truth + bloodspawn build. When I said no weapon damage glyph I was saying not berserk glyph, meaning no 452 weapon damage gain from infused + weapon damage glyph, I don't know if put it infused + weapon damage glyph on the 2h back bar is good, or if I need to put the back haind axe in infused with weapon damage glyph and so poison in back bar, didn't decided yet.

I'm not a pro in bleedblade so there is maybe something I missed, but here is the build : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=30828

EDIT : I modified the build with an infused + weapon damage glyph on the off hand dualwield and put poison on the nirn 2h back bar.

Tooltips : surprise attack = 14.5k, merciless = 26.9k and incap = 22.7k

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=64582

DDuke

Beardimus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

LOL absolutely spot on. It's hilarious each time.

Actually pretty easy, 2x Slimecraw 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery for instance (if you want big dmg shields as well).

With a more of a spell dmg focus you can get it way above 10k tooltip (at the expense of shield strength).

Hilarious, right?


That said, I do prefer a proc setup (2x Zaan 5x Caluurion 5x Necropotence) on mSorc when going for max dmg (meaning only 8,5k tooltip).

Ragnaroek93

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

Umm.. What build do run to get these tool tips on your Bleedblade with no weapon damage glyphs?

The classic Bone pirate + truth + bloodspawn build. When I said no weapon damage glyph I was saying not berserk glyph, meaning no 452 weapon damage gain from infused + weapon damage glyph, I don't know if put it infused + weapon damage glyph on the 2h back bar is good, or if I need to put the back haind axe in infused with weapon damage glyph and so poison in back bar, didn't decided yet.

I'm not a pro in bleedblade so there is maybe something I missed, but here is the build : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=30828

EDIT : I modified the build with an infused + weapon damage glyph on the off hand dualwield and put poison on the nirn 2h back bar.

Tooltips : surprise attack = 14.5k, merciless = 26.9k and incap = 22.7k

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=64582

I have similar stats on my rollerblade and my tooltip isn't even close to that, something is messed up on your site.

Aedaryl

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

Umm.. What build do run to get these tool tips on your Bleedblade with no weapon damage glyphs?

The classic Bone pirate + truth + bloodspawn build. When I said no weapon damage glyph I was saying not berserk glyph, meaning no 452 weapon damage gain from infused + weapon damage glyph, I don't know if put it infused + weapon damage glyph on the 2h back bar is good, or if I need to put the back haind axe in infused with weapon damage glyph and so poison in back bar, didn't decided yet.

I'm not a pro in bleedblade so there is maybe something I missed, but here is the build : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=30828

EDIT : I modified the build with an infused + weapon damage glyph on the off hand dualwield and put poison on the nirn 2h back bar.

Tooltips : surprise attack = 14.5k, merciless = 26.9k and incap = 22.7k

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=64582

I have similar stats on my rollerblade and my tooltip isn't even close to that, something is messed up on your site.

nope, you probably missed off-balance.

idk

Grabs popcorn.

DDuke

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

Umm.. What build do run to get these tool tips on your Bleedblade with no weapon damage glyphs?

The classic Bone pirate + truth + bloodspawn build. When I said no weapon damage glyph I was saying not berserk glyph, meaning no 452 weapon damage gain from infused + weapon damage glyph, I don't know if put it infused + weapon damage glyph on the 2h back bar is good, or if I need to put the back haind axe in infused with weapon damage glyph and so poison in back bar, didn't decided yet.

I'm not a pro in bleedblade so there is maybe something I missed, but here is the build : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=30828

EDIT : I modified the build with an infused + weapon damage glyph on the off hand dualwield and put poison on the nirn 2h back bar.

Tooltips : surprise attack = 14.5k, merciless = 26.9k and incap = 22.7k

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=64582

I have similar stats on my rollerblade and my tooltip isn't even close to that, something is messed up on your site.

ESO Build Editor calculates % bonuses separately rather than bundling the bonuses up as it should, which leads to false tooltips.

If you want an accurate tooltip, remove all dmg increasing passives, CPs etc, bundle them up manually & add it to the base tooltip of the skill you're looking at.

Aedaryl

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

Umm.. What build do run to get these tool tips on your Bleedblade with no weapon damage glyphs?

The classic Bone pirate + truth + bloodspawn build. When I said no weapon damage glyph I was saying not berserk glyph, meaning no 452 weapon damage gain from infused + weapon damage glyph, I don't know if put it infused + weapon damage glyph on the 2h back bar is good, or if I need to put the back haind axe in infused with weapon damage glyph and so poison in back bar, didn't decided yet.

I'm not a pro in bleedblade so there is maybe something I missed, but here is the build : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=30828

EDIT : I modified the build with an infused + weapon damage glyph on the off hand dualwield and put poison on the nirn 2h back bar.

Tooltips : surprise attack = 14.5k, merciless = 26.9k and incap = 22.7k

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=64582

I have similar stats on my rollerblade and my tooltip isn't even close to that, something is messed up on your site.

ESO Build Editor calculates % bonuses separately rather than bundling the bonuses up as it should, which leads to false tooltips.

If you want an accurate tooltip, remove all dmg increasing passives, CPs etc, bundle them up manually & add it to the base tooltip of the skill you're looking at.

I'm curious to know what you will obtain, you should try it with surprise attack and with the buffs listed in the editor

Edit : if it's additive I need to take the base value and add in % all the buffs ?

Like : 9138 (base) + 91.38x12 (mighty) + 91.38x22 (master-at-arms) + 91.38x10 (off balance) + 91.38x8 (minor berzerk) = 13 889 ?

PhoenixGrey

Not sure how this is an issue. Stam blade and stam warden put out much more burst than before

Does counterplay really matter when dawn breaker/ incap is your main spammable ?

Yet it's always sorc which gets the nerf hammer.
Rune cage is the new excuse this time

Aedaryl

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Not sure how this is an issue. Stam blade and stam warden put out much more burst than before

Does counterplay really matter when dawn breaker/ incap is your main spammable ?

Yet it's always sorc which gets the nerf hammer.
Rune cage is the new excuse this time

Rune cage front damage design is stupid, adding damage on a 100% chance of stun on class with a full delayed burst is bad design.

It would be far more interessting to make rune cage a dot (double the tooltip), it would help sorc in their main weakness : having good pressure between bursts.

DDuke

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

Umm.. What build do run to get these tool tips on your Bleedblade with no weapon damage glyphs?

The classic Bone pirate + truth + bloodspawn build. When I said no weapon damage glyph I was saying not berserk glyph, meaning no 452 weapon damage gain from infused + weapon damage glyph, I don't know if put it infused + weapon damage glyph on the 2h back bar is good, or if I need to put the back haind axe in infused with weapon damage glyph and so poison in back bar, didn't decided yet.

I'm not a pro in bleedblade so there is maybe something I missed, but here is the build : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=30828

EDIT : I modified the build with an infused + weapon damage glyph on the off hand dualwield and put poison on the nirn 2h back bar.

Tooltips : surprise attack = 14.5k, merciless = 26.9k and incap = 22.7k

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=64582

I have similar stats on my rollerblade and my tooltip isn't even close to that, something is messed up on your site.

ESO Build Editor calculates % bonuses separately rather than bundling the bonuses up as it should, which leads to false tooltips.

If you want an accurate tooltip, remove all dmg increasing passives, CPs etc, bundle them up manually & add it to the base tooltip of the skill you're looking at.

I'm curious to know what you will obtain, you should try it with surprise attack and with the buffs listed in the editor

Edit : if it's additive I need to take the base value and add in % all the buffs ?

Like : 9138 (base) + 91.38x12 (mighty) + 91.38x22 (master-at-arms) + 91.38x10 (off balance) + 91.38x8 (minor berzerk) = 13 889 ?

Uh, this is how I like to calculate it: 9138+[12%(Mighty)+22%(Master-at-Arms)+10%(Off Balance)+8%(Minor Berserk)]=13 889


In other words, you bundle up all your % modifiers to get a total modifier of 52% which you then apply to the tooltip.


Edit: Added Off Balance passive.

Aedaryl

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

Umm.. What build do run to get these tool tips on your Bleedblade with no weapon damage glyphs?

The classic Bone pirate + truth + bloodspawn build. When I said no weapon damage glyph I was saying not berserk glyph, meaning no 452 weapon damage gain from infused + weapon damage glyph, I don't know if put it infused + weapon damage glyph on the 2h back bar is good, or if I need to put the back haind axe in infused with weapon damage glyph and so poison in back bar, didn't decided yet.

I'm not a pro in bleedblade so there is maybe something I missed, but here is the build : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=30828

EDIT : I modified the build with an infused + weapon damage glyph on the off hand dualwield and put poison on the nirn 2h back bar.

Tooltips : surprise attack = 14.5k, merciless = 26.9k and incap = 22.7k

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=64582

I have similar stats on my rollerblade and my tooltip isn't even close to that, something is messed up on your site.

ESO Build Editor calculates % bonuses separately rather than bundling the bonuses up as it should, which leads to false tooltips.

If you want an accurate tooltip, remove all dmg increasing passives, CPs etc, bundle them up manually & add it to the base tooltip of the skill you're looking at.

I'm curious to know what you will obtain, you should try it with surprise attack and with the buffs listed in the editor

Edit : if it's additive I need to take the base value and add in % all the buffs ?

Like : 9138 (base) + 91.38x12 (mighty) + 91.38x22 (master-at-arms) + 91.38x10 (off balance) + 91.38x8 (minor berzerk) = 13 889 ?

Uh, this is how I like to calculate it: 9138+[12%(Mighty)+22%(Master-at-Arms)+10%(Minor Berserk)]=12 975


In other words, you bundle up all your % modifiers to get a total modifier of 42% which you then apply to the tooltip.

Well, so we did the same thing, you forgot minor berzerk, the total damage modifer is 52% (12 mighty + 22 master-at-arms + 10 off-balance + 8 minor berzerk).

Suprise attack tooltip = 13 889
Merciless bow = 25 837
Incap = 21 877
light attack : 6764
Heavy attack : 10743

This is pretty OP for the oversustain you have.

DDuke

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my 7.5K Rune Cage to be upgraded to @DDuke 's 10K version...

When magplayers take full damage heavy armor stambuilds with legion + fury without scaling defense and which aren't sustainable in open world as reference for balance it's ok, when stamplayers do the same with magicka it's heresy. But you said yourself that medium armor builds are for "suckers", taking these into consideration would just not fit your agenda with sorc being "underpowered".

Beardimus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I just saw the OP plays on Xbox. Have fun when the patch goes live and sorcs get damage on Runecage, doubled light attack damage, new spammable and 5-5-2 setup

Lol, so 2-4k damage and the other three things all classes get.

And yet sorc benefits the most from it.

Maybe we should take that heavy armor stambleedblade ?

With (no cyrobuff, no weapon damage glyph) on tooltip : 13k surprise attack, 25k+ spectral bow, and almost 21k incap ? (Just think about theze tooltip after incap with 20% more damage it's even more insane). Then you can add all the bleeds.

The build is not sustainable you will tell, but the problem is that my effective stam regen in fight is about 2900. Not counting dualwield heavies that are the shorter heavies and that give 4550 stamina.

Umm.. What build do run to get these tool tips on your Bleedblade with no weapon damage glyphs?

The classic Bone pirate + truth + bloodspawn build. When I said no weapon damage glyph I was saying not berserk glyph, meaning no 452 weapon damage gain from infused + weapon damage glyph, I don't know if put it infused + weapon damage glyph on the 2h back bar is good, or if I need to put the back haind axe in infused with weapon damage glyph and so poison in back bar, didn't decided yet.

I'm not a pro in bleedblade so there is maybe something I missed, but here is the build : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=30828

EDIT : I modified the build with an infused + weapon damage glyph on the off hand dualwield and put poison on the nirn 2h back bar.

Tooltips : surprise attack = 14.5k, merciless = 26.9k and incap = 22.7k

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=64582

I have similar stats on my rollerblade and my tooltip isn't even close to that, something is messed up on your site.

ESO Build Editor calculates % bonuses separately rather than bundling the bonuses up as it should, which leads to false tooltips.

If you want an accurate tooltip, remove all dmg increasing passives, CPs etc, bundle them up manually & add it to the base tooltip of the skill you're looking at.

I'm curious to know what you will obtain, you should try it with surprise attack and with the buffs listed in the editor

Edit : if it's additive I need to take the base value and add in % all the buffs ?

Like : 9138 (base) + 91.38x12 (mighty) + 91.38x22 (master-at-arms) + 91.38x10 (off balance) + 91.38x8 (minor berzerk) = 13 889 ?

Uh, this is how I like to calculate it: 9138+[12%(Mighty)+22%(Master-at-Arms)+10%(Minor Berserk)]=12 975


In other words, you bundle up all your % modifiers to get a total modifier of 42% which you then apply to the tooltip.

Well, so we did the same thing, you forgot minor berzerk, the total damage modifer is 52% (12 mighty + 22 master-at-arms + 10 off-balance + 8 minor berzerk).

Suprise attack tooltip = 13 889
Merciless bow = 25 837
Incap = 21 877
light attack : 6764
Heavy attack : 10743

This is pretty OP for the oversustain you have.

Oh yeah, forgot to finish my post - been a long day lol

52% is the modifier indeed.


I'm not so sure about "oversustain" though, you've got expensive af dodge rolls in 5 heavy and your stam regen is sub-2k (when even rollerblades in 5 or 7 medium tend to get 2,5-3k+).

PhoenixGrey

Aedaryl wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Not sure how this is an issue. Stam blade and stam warden put out much more burst than before

Does counterplay really matter when dawn breaker/ incap is your main spammable ?

Yet it's always sorc which gets the nerf hammer.
Rune cage is the new excuse this time

Rune cage front damage design is stupid, adding damage on a 100% chance of stun on class with a full delayed burst is bad design.

It would be far more interessting to make rune cage a dot (double the tooltip), it would help sorc in their main weakness : having good pressure between bursts.

Yeah I agree it is bad design wise. The amount of burst damage from stam has gone up this patch so why should only sorc have a handicap.

This game has far more problems which need to fixed first before we nerf rune cage. Ideally i would just want the stun on frag back but that's not happening is it?

The general idea of balance seems to be if some *** is overperforming just nerf it because no one gives a damn about how it affects other skills/ classes right?

Balance is a relative thing mate

DDuke

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Not sure how this is an issue. Stam blade and stam warden put out much more burst than before

Does counterplay really matter when dawn breaker/ incap is your main spammable ?

Yet it's always sorc which gets the nerf hammer.
Rune cage is the new excuse this time

Rune cage front damage design is stupid, adding damage on a 100% chance of stun on class with a full delayed burst is bad design.

It would be far more interessting to make rune cage a dot (double the tooltip), it would help sorc in their main weakness : having good pressure between bursts.

Yeah I agree it is bad design wise. The amount of burst damage from stam has gone up this patch so why should only sorc have a handicap.

This game has far more problems which need to fixed first before we nerf rune cage. Ideally i would just want the stun on frag back but that's not happening is it?

The general idea of balance seems to be if some *** is overperforming just nerf it because no one gives a damn about how it affects other skills/ classes right?

Balance is a relative thing mate

Burst has gone up for all builds, even previous sorc builds like all the Flame Reach or Scamp stun related combos etc.


The only thing that has scaled up disproportionately is the Rune Cage combo, as the skill not only got higher tooltip from other changes in the patch (staves counting as 2 set pieces etc) but also got it's damage actually "unlocked" as it previously wouldn't deal any damage when CC broken (as in, 99,99% of time)

It's kinda like as if stamblades' fear suddenly got 9-10k tooltip - trust me, you'd be complaining (and so would I).

PhoenixGrey

DDuke wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Not sure how this is an issue. Stam blade and stam warden put out much more burst than before

Does counterplay really matter when dawn breaker/ incap is your main spammable ?

Yet it's always sorc which gets the nerf hammer.
Rune cage is the new excuse this time

Rune cage front damage design is stupid, adding damage on a 100% chance of stun on class with a full delayed burst is bad design.

It would be far more interessting to make rune cage a dot (double the tooltip), it would help sorc in their main weakness : having good pressure between bursts.

Yeah I agree it is bad design wise. The amount of burst damage from stam has gone up this patch so why should only sorc have a handicap.

This game has far more problems which need to fixed first before we nerf rune cage. Ideally i would just want the stun on frag back but that's not happening is it?

The general idea of balance seems to be if some *** is overperforming just nerf it because no one gives a damn about how it affects other skills/ classes right?

Balance is a relative thing mate

Burst has gone up for all builds, even previous sorc builds like all the Flame Reach or Scamp stun related combos etc.


The only thing that has scaled up disproportionately is the Rune Cage combo, as the skill not only got higher tooltip from other changes in the patch (staves counting as 2 set pieces etc) but also got it's damage actually "unlocked" as it previously wouldn't deal any damage when CC broken (as in, 99,99% of time)

It's kinda like as if stamblades' fear suddenly got 9-10k tooltip - trust me, you'd be complaining (and so would I).

Yeah but you know what the difference was ?

Sorcs with rune cage weren't killing *** last patch. On the other hand the stam NB/ warden burst was enough to kill 2 people and still is.
Btw sorcs needed a non spammable ultimate for the combo last patch.

Wanna talk balance ? First nerf incap and subterranean assault. Then we can talk about rune cage.

Minalan

DDuke wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Not sure how this is an issue. Stam blade and stam warden put out much more burst than before

Does counterplay really matter when dawn breaker/ incap is your main spammable ?

Yet it's always sorc which gets the nerf hammer.
Rune cage is the new excuse this time

Rune cage front damage design is stupid, adding damage on a 100% chance of stun on class with a full delayed burst is bad design.

It would be far more interessting to make rune cage a dot (double the tooltip), it would help sorc in their main weakness : having good pressure between bursts.

Yeah I agree it is bad design wise. The amount of burst damage from stam has gone up this patch so why should only sorc have a handicap.

This game has far more problems which need to fixed first before we nerf rune cage. Ideally i would just want the stun on frag back but that's not happening is it?

The general idea of balance seems to be if some *** is overperforming just nerf it because no one gives a damn about how it affects other skills/ classes right?

Balance is a relative thing mate

Burst has gone up for all builds, even previous sorc builds like all the Flame Reach or Scamp stun related combos etc.


The only thing that has scaled up disproportionately is the Rune Cage combo, as the skill not only got higher tooltip from other changes in the patch (staves counting as 2 set pieces etc) but also got it's damage actually "unlocked" as it previously wouldn't deal any damage when CC broken (as in, 99,99% of time)

It's kinda like as if stamblades' fear suddenly got 9-10k tooltip - trust me, you'd be complaining (and so would I).

I’d prefer the rune cage damage get out back on crystal frags personally. To me it doesn’t matter *where* it is, so long as the damage is done. At least with rune cage, if you’re CC immune you aren’t getting hit by it.

The only issue with rune cage is the long range on it. Fear and fossil are almost point blank range. The counterplay is to kite a bit out of that kill zone. With rune cage you can’t escape it.

Xvorg

brandonv516 wrote: »

They took this combination from NBs with Agony. Let's just make Rune Cage and Petrify heals too.

I used that combo before it was mainstream...

Everything changed when the Wroebel nation attacked...

IZZEFlameLash

brandonv516 wrote: »

They took this combination from NBs with Agony. Let's just make Rune Cage and Petrify heals too.

NBs did not need extra hard CC when they can use Fear. And I think I remember some wanted bursty self heal in place of that. Except that the changed version was not really what anyone wanted. Rune Cage and Petrify are the only unblockable hard CC Sorc and DK have access to. You might as well just say straight up nerf those classes instead of going around it.

And is it just me or anyone with competent defense just don't die to this combo unless they are at lower health than 50%? I rarely die to this combo at 100% health or it is even that detrimental enough to turn the combat into enemy's favor unless I am dogpiled on.

Lucky28

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This is the most absurd combination in the game. The ONLY counter to the Meteor + [unblockable stun skill] combination is immovable. Why in the world would you add unblockable skills to this game, ZOS?

You went ahead and gave the absolute best burst timing ultimate in the game (meteor) skills that guarantee it will hit for max damage unless immovable is active. This combination was annoying at first, but now it's running rampant in Xbox NA and any time immovable isn't active, you are susceptible to full damage from meteor.

All those things being unblockable is because of permablocking tanks. if those skills where blockable we'd go right back to permablock tank meta. which is far worse.

bardx86

DDuke wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

First, i assumed this was a serious necro.

How about making a build that does not get destroyed by litterally the OLDEST universal ultimate burst combo in the game?

If you cant take a single Meteor to the face, then you need to look at your own build, and how much you rely on Dodge / Block to mitigate damage.

Making such a build was pretty simple before patch, but after you add 9-10k tooltip dmg to that (i.e. the Summerset Rune Cage changes) it becomes a matter of having to play a tank build to survive the burst.

In retrospect, the Rune Cage now dealing 9-10k tooltip dmg is the same as if they had added a patch note for NB that said: "Incap now deals 60% more damage" - that's how much extra burst the sorc combo got from Rune Cage change alone (more light attack dmg adds even more to it).


Such burst wouldn't be a problem if it actually required some skill to land and/or could be countered somehow by classes without access to Shimmering Shield/Wings (to prevent Frag/light attack portion of burst)/Ritual (to get rid of Curse/Wrath) - at the moment it just converts medium armor stamblades/sorcs into free AP.

I ran this build all day to day Its a 7K tooltip pease lets try and keep this honest. It hits in PVP round 3k and a lot of time 1k, I did get one 5k, almost fainted. It can be an effective combo however its freaking VERY hard to line this all up as 90% of the time you are going to get stunned before you finish a 5 GCD combo. Good players will survive the combo and it happened quite a bit today. I still think sorcs still feel a bit weak. Its either we totally mash the opponent or we are then behind the curve and it gets hard to maintain any defensive posture once focused. Anyone that can survive that burst will kill the sorc in the end.