The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of May 6:
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – May 8, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – May 8, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – May 8, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – May 8, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance
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Murador178✭✭✭✭I think we can agree that both magsorc and stamnb have the most toxic forum lobby.
Why this is i have some ideas but i better not share them
I think mDk also deserves are spot there
Edit: Incap doesnt need a nerf on the pts. If u fight the new magicka builds u will notice why. Of course incap always feels strong on the PTS vs EU players since we cant break free and roll assasins will because of ping issues.Edited by Murador178 on May 5, 2018 5:39PM0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Littlebluelizard wrote: »
Yea it wouldn't be the same it would have no were near the uptime as stamblade or even stamplars.A almost 30 ultimate difference is huge.Uptime wouldn't be anywhere close lets say its a 75% uptime now but it be only a 40% for a stamsorc if even that.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
They can't increase the cost of incap because than PVE Stamblade DPS would go down the drain and be back to the weakest StamDPS.It would kinda F over Major slayer uptime.You can only run 1 stamplar in a group so no more major slayer and back to only Stamdk in groups.If any at all.Littlebluelizard wrote: »Only nerf they should consider to Death Stroke and it's morphs should be the ult cost. 70 ult is really cheap. Yes it does a lot, but it's pure single-target, contrary to DBoS.
I feel like NBs punish squishy people and outpositioned people and that's why people get triggered: They refuse to adapt. I am not sure if Incap actually deserves nerfs or it is mostly a L2P issue. Perhaps they could rework the ultimate to make it equally as strong but not as oppresive. How they would do that however, I don't know. But just blindly nerfing Incap is not the answer.
It wouldn't be that bad to be honest. Stamsorc uses War Machine and has decent uptime by using DB, which costs 105 for them I believe? EDIT: And Stamblade has better Ult gen.
Yeah 105 ult would be too much for Incap, I was thinking maybe 85-90.
Any increase in cost to Incap would result in stamblades using Soul Harvest or DBoS; depending on content. Incap is perfectly balanced where it's at.2 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade combat balance and ability changes. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance.
To all talking about Incap:
Incap was not changed on PTS, feedback on it was not requested. It is not a combat balance CHANGE, nor an ability CHANGE. Nor do any of the changes that hit PTS have an impact on the way Incap works. Anyone posting on this thread about Incap cannot understand a fairly simple request from ZoS.
How on earth are the devs meant to read about the stuff that they did ask for feedback on, and was changed? It's buried in a mountain of non-relevant material.
I suggest no one talks about Incap, it's only keeping non-NB on this thread covering the same old they have been for ever, and it's not even on topic. There are WAY more important things that need balancing, including (but not limited to) NB tanks, NB healers, DK healers, stamplars, tankplars, Sorc healers, races etc. All that Incap energy should be refocused in these areas. (of which most should be on other threads)Edited by aeowulf on May 5, 2018 6:11PM5 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Murador178 wrote: »I think we can agree that both magsorc and stamnb have the most toxic forum lobby.
Why this is i have some ideas but i better not share them
I think mDk also deserves are spot there
Edit: Incap doesnt need a nerf on the pts. If u fight the new magicka builds u will notice why. Of course incap always feels strong on the PTS vs EU players since we cant break free and roll assasins will because of ping issues.
I think the DK thread is dead. StamDKs no longer exist and MagDKs won't get anything.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
Yea it wouldn't be the same it would have no were near the uptime as stamblade or even stamplars.A almost 30 ultimate difference is huge.Uptime wouldn't be anywhere close lets say its a 75% uptime now but it be only a 40% for a stamsorc if even that.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
They can't increase the cost of incap because than PVE Stamblade DPS would go down the drain and be back to the weakest StamDPS.It would kinda F over Major slayer uptime.You can only run 1 stamplar in a group so no more major slayer and back to only Stamdk in groups.If any at all.Littlebluelizard wrote: »Only nerf they should consider to Death Stroke and it's morphs should be the ult cost. 70 ult is really cheap. Yes it does a lot, but it's pure single-target, contrary to DBoS.
I feel like NBs punish squishy people and outpositioned people and that's why people get triggered: They refuse to adapt. I am not sure if Incap actually deserves nerfs or it is mostly a L2P issue. Perhaps they could rework the ultimate to make it equally as strong but not as oppresive. How they would do that however, I don't know. But just blindly nerfing Incap is not the answer.
It wouldn't be that bad to be honest. Stamsorc uses War Machine and has decent uptime by using DB, which costs 105 for them I believe? EDIT: And Stamblade has better Ult gen.
Yeah 105 ult would be too much for Incap, I was thinking maybe 85-90.
Any increase in cost to Incap would result in stamblades using Soul Harvest or DBoS; depending on content. Incap is perfectly balanced where it's at.
Yeah, incap needs to be a cheap bursty ult to work well with the in n out style, and also PvE uses things like war machine. Its more the defile that is OP, but that is in general. Personally I think it should stay as is, else we end up with another empowering.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
SirSocke✭✭✭More ulti cost destroys the current classunique playstile in PvE.Bosmer stamina nightblade!2 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
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? You can only stun from stealth if you are in sneak (crouch) and you attack, or if you are in invis amd you use veiled strike and morphs. Otherwise you need a skill or set that stuns or the tactician passive0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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They wouldn't just increase the cost of incap they would increase the cost of the entire thing so they will increase the cost of death stroke.So both would cost 105 for example.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
Yea it wouldn't be the same it would have no were near the uptime as stamblade or even stamplars.A almost 30 ultimate difference is huge.Uptime wouldn't be anywhere close lets say its a 75% uptime now but it be only a 40% for a stamsorc if even that.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
They can't increase the cost of incap because than PVE Stamblade DPS would go down the drain and be back to the weakest StamDPS.It would kinda F over Major slayer uptime.You can only run 1 stamplar in a group so no more major slayer and back to only Stamdk in groups.If any at all.Littlebluelizard wrote: »Only nerf they should consider to Death Stroke and it's morphs should be the ult cost. 70 ult is really cheap. Yes it does a lot, but it's pure single-target, contrary to DBoS.
I feel like NBs punish squishy people and outpositioned people and that's why people get triggered: They refuse to adapt. I am not sure if Incap actually deserves nerfs or it is mostly a L2P issue. Perhaps they could rework the ultimate to make it equally as strong but not as oppresive. How they would do that however, I don't know. But just blindly nerfing Incap is not the answer.
It wouldn't be that bad to be honest. Stamsorc uses War Machine and has decent uptime by using DB, which costs 105 for them I believe? EDIT: And Stamblade has better Ult gen.
Yeah 105 ult would be too much for Incap, I was thinking maybe 85-90.
Any increase in cost to Incap would result in stamblades using Soul Harvest or DBoS; depending on content. Incap is perfectly balanced where it's at.
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Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@ak_pvp I actually think having defile on Incap is perfectly reasonable. What I'm not a fan of is how many non-ults apply Major Defile. If I were to be in charge of balance I'd replace all non-ult sources of major defile and replace them with minor. I'd also give the Templar's radial sweep, the sorc's negate, and the wardens bear major defile so that every class has a means of applying it. I would also make it so that the DK's standard applies major defile even if the enemy players exit its AoE. Poisons, and disease damage should also only apply minor defile. Major Defile is incredibly powerful, but it deserves be accessible by every class, and it should only be reserved for ultimates. It's too strong to be readily applied to everyone. The 5-piece Durok's is also acceptable to me.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
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? You can only stun from stealth if you are in sneak (crouch) and you attack, or if you are in invis amd you use veiled strike and morphs. Otherwise you need a skill or set that stuns or the tactician passive
Everything knocks you down with that tactician passive which actually infuriates me. Such a terrible change.0 -
Sun7dance✭✭✭✭✭
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? You can only stun from stealth if you are in sneak (crouch) and you attack, or if you are in invis amd you use veiled strike and morphs. Otherwise you need a skill or set that stuns or the tactician passive
Yes, sorry, that's what i've tried to say.
If you remove stun from incap, every stamblade would you stun anyway.
Maybe in sneak, maybe invisible + surprise attack.PS5|EU0 -
Nevasca✭✭✭✭✭Going back to the NB tank talk, Dark Cloak needs more changing. The minor protection buff is meaningless for a tank because of how damage mitigation interacts with block. Increasing damage blocked similar to the new bound armor would function better imo, but still not good.
Nightblade will need more help in stamina sustain regard. Even sorcs have better sustain as a tank. Sorc have more group utility through Encase, Empowered Ward(minor buff)...
While it's cool that NB tank provide some off-healing, it's not enough of a reason to justify NB tank. Reworking Manifestation of Terror (Aspect of Terror morph) to provide CC utility like talon would help a lot. No one uses this morph so it's ok to change to something completely different. I would suggest to make it instant and provide Immobilization, without cap of targets.I suggest no one talks about Incap, it's only keeping non-NB on this thread covering the same old they have been for ever, and it's not even on topic. There are WAY more important things that need balancing, including (but not limited to) NB tanks, NB healers, DK healers, stamplars, tankplars, Sorc healers, races etc. All that Incap energy should be refocused in these areas. (of which most should be on other threads)
Agreed. There's no reason to talk about Incap here. This is not the right place to QQ about NB. It's about NB's players giving feedback.
EDIT: Jesus the spell errors. Fixed, lol.Edited by Nevasca on May 5, 2018 7:54PM0 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭I don't know where they want NB tanks to be going, it feels like somewhere unique. Would help to know, at the moment the changes are good and bad, they are getting help but it's not where it's needed. If there was one thing NB tanks didn't lack, it was self healing, so really not sure why we got a massive boost there only to have damage redux cut by 50% (from bolstering) Maybe we are not meant to be blocking and living off shield wall? But that does mean no war horn, so back to square one... and of course shield wall isn't the same as blocking...
It feels like we'll be mostly going outside our class for tank skills, which I guess is at least something - but it's really not good for desirability to use things that all classes can
Meditate - it's not very NB, and i can't really see tanks 'doing nothing' for 4 seconds, so I don't know how used it will be. So NB tanks still have no friendly sustain.
Nice seeing chains available to NB/all through a non-class skill, but I don't think any class except DK will have the stamina for it Edited by aeowulf on May 5, 2018 9:42PM1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HalfEatenCornea wrote: »Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »The flat damage bonus of 20 percent more damage for 6 seconds is too strong on an ultimate (incap) that already hits hard, has a stun and has a potent debuff such as major defile with it. Would be nice if you changed the flat percent damage buff to all your damage to something like empower which would make the skill much more in line for its low cost.
well put! nerf incap! take the 20 percent dmg amp and defile off, easy fix
Well that fixes that. Then all the stamclasses will use dawnbreaker apart from the few stamdks still playing who uses leap. Then if we start whining about DB we’d be selfdestructive, and who wants that. End of discussion. Good talk.
/end sarcasm
PC EU
PvP only2 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
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They wouldn't just increase the cost of incap they would increase the cost of the entire thing so they will increase the cost of death stroke.So both would cost 105 for example.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
Yea it wouldn't be the same it would have no were near the uptime as stamblade or even stamplars.A almost 30 ultimate difference is huge.Uptime wouldn't be anywhere close lets say its a 75% uptime now but it be only a 40% for a stamsorc if even that.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
They can't increase the cost of incap because than PVE Stamblade DPS would go down the drain and be back to the weakest StamDPS.It would kinda F over Major slayer uptime.You can only run 1 stamplar in a group so no more major slayer and back to only Stamdk in groups.If any at all.Littlebluelizard wrote: »Only nerf they should consider to Death Stroke and it's morphs should be the ult cost. 70 ult is really cheap. Yes it does a lot, but it's pure single-target, contrary to DBoS.
I feel like NBs punish squishy people and outpositioned people and that's why people get triggered: They refuse to adapt. I am not sure if Incap actually deserves nerfs or it is mostly a L2P issue. Perhaps they could rework the ultimate to make it equally as strong but not as oppresive. How they would do that however, I don't know. But just blindly nerfing Incap is not the answer.
It wouldn't be that bad to be honest. Stamsorc uses War Machine and has decent uptime by using DB, which costs 105 for them I believe? EDIT: And Stamblade has better Ult gen.
Yeah 105 ult would be too much for Incap, I was thinking maybe 85-90.
Any increase in cost to Incap would result in stamblades using Soul Harvest or DBoS; depending on content. Incap is perfectly balanced where it's at.
And then every stam class with the exception of StamDK will be using DBoS. Also that would be a massive hit to stamblades in PvE because that would make War Machine useless for them. Which I'm sure is the intention of a lot of the posters in this thread. They're not concerned about this class's well-being, they just want it nerfed to the ground.0 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭Yes, will edit/move irrelevant bits from my content, but as you've quoted them the info will remain in the thread.Edited by aeowulf on May 5, 2018 9:45PM0
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Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
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They wouldn't just increase the cost of incap they would increase the cost of the entire thing so they will increase the cost of death stroke.So both would cost 105 for example.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
Yea it wouldn't be the same it would have no were near the uptime as stamblade or even stamplars.A almost 30 ultimate difference is huge.Uptime wouldn't be anywhere close lets say its a 75% uptime now but it be only a 40% for a stamsorc if even that.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
They can't increase the cost of incap because than PVE Stamblade DPS would go down the drain and be back to the weakest StamDPS.It would kinda F over Major slayer uptime.You can only run 1 stamplar in a group so no more major slayer and back to only Stamdk in groups.If any at all.Littlebluelizard wrote: »Only nerf they should consider to Death Stroke and it's morphs should be the ult cost. 70 ult is really cheap. Yes it does a lot, but it's pure single-target, contrary to DBoS.
I feel like NBs punish squishy people and outpositioned people and that's why people get triggered: They refuse to adapt. I am not sure if Incap actually deserves nerfs or it is mostly a L2P issue. Perhaps they could rework the ultimate to make it equally as strong but not as oppresive. How they would do that however, I don't know. But just blindly nerfing Incap is not the answer.
It wouldn't be that bad to be honest. Stamsorc uses War Machine and has decent uptime by using DB, which costs 105 for them I believe? EDIT: And Stamblade has better Ult gen.
Yeah 105 ult would be too much for Incap, I was thinking maybe 85-90.
Any increase in cost to Incap would result in stamblades using Soul Harvest or DBoS; depending on content. Incap is perfectly balanced where it's at.
And then every stam class with the exception of StamDK will be using DBoS. Also that would be a massive hit to stamblades in PvE because that would make War Machine useless for them. Which I'm sure is the intention of a lot of the posters in this thread. They're not concerned about this class's well-being, they just want it nerfed to the ground.
true for most nerf threads and topics.Edited by Lucky28 on May 5, 2018 9:44PMInvictus0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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Yup exactly
They wouldn't just increase the cost of incap they would increase the cost of the entire thing so they will increase the cost of death stroke.So both would cost 105 for example.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
Yea it wouldn't be the same it would have no were near the uptime as stamblade or even stamplars.A almost 30 ultimate difference is huge.Uptime wouldn't be anywhere close lets say its a 75% uptime now but it be only a 40% for a stamsorc if even that.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
They can't increase the cost of incap because than PVE Stamblade DPS would go down the drain and be back to the weakest StamDPS.It would kinda F over Major slayer uptime.You can only run 1 stamplar in a group so no more major slayer and back to only Stamdk in groups.If any at all.Littlebluelizard wrote: »Only nerf they should consider to Death Stroke and it's morphs should be the ult cost. 70 ult is really cheap. Yes it does a lot, but it's pure single-target, contrary to DBoS.
I feel like NBs punish squishy people and outpositioned people and that's why people get triggered: They refuse to adapt. I am not sure if Incap actually deserves nerfs or it is mostly a L2P issue. Perhaps they could rework the ultimate to make it equally as strong but not as oppresive. How they would do that however, I don't know. But just blindly nerfing Incap is not the answer.
It wouldn't be that bad to be honest. Stamsorc uses War Machine and has decent uptime by using DB, which costs 105 for them I believe? EDIT: And Stamblade has better Ult gen.
Yeah 105 ult would be too much for Incap, I was thinking maybe 85-90.
Any increase in cost to Incap would result in stamblades using Soul Harvest or DBoS; depending on content. Incap is perfectly balanced where it's at.
And then every stam class with the exception of StamDK will be using DBoS. Also that would be a massive hit to stamblades in PvE because that would make War Machine useless for them. Which I'm sure is the intention of a lot of the posters in this thread. They're not concerned about this class's well-being, they just want it nerfed to the ground.
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aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭It feels most of the NB changes are going to have a bigger impact in PvP than PvE, yet I feel they were intended for PvE.
Bolstering is likely to become an excellent PvP skill, and swapping a self heal for invis might be to some of the more tanky types taste.Edited by aeowulf on May 5, 2018 9:52PM0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It feels most of the NB changes are going to have a bigger impact in PvP than PvE, yet I feel they were intended for PvE.
Bolstering is likely to become an excellent PvP skill, and swapping a self heal for invis might be to some of the more tanky types taste.
Which is a good thing since Nightblades were the only class that was non-beneficial to group PvP. The Bolstering darkness chance was a great one. It finally brings group utility to PvP. Before this the Nightblade was a pretty selfish play style.1 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭It feels most of the NB changes are going to have a bigger impact in PvP than PvE, yet I feel they were intended for PvE.
Bolstering is likely to become an excellent PvP skill, and swapping a self heal for invis might be to some of the more tanky types taste.
that's true with most the changes they make. PvE is Static, they can't really change PvE by changes classes at least not significantly. to make changes to PvE they would have to actually change the mobs and their AI. otherwise, it's really pointless.Invictus0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It feels most of the NB changes are going to have a bigger impact in PvP than PvE, yet I feel they were intended for PvE.
Bolstering is likely to become an excellent PvP skill, and swapping a self heal for invis might be to some of the more tanky types taste.
that's true with most the changes they make. PvE is Static, they can't really change PvE by changes classes at least not significantly. to make changes to PvE they would have to actually change the mobs and their AI. otherwise, it's really pointless.
For my tank (really excited about btw) I plan to have both aggressive Warhorn and Bolstering slotted. Each ultimate will have a use, it just depends on the situation. The Dark Cloak change is fantastic! I just wish it scaled off your highest stat since my tank usually has around 25% weapon crit, and 10% spell crit at all times. Oh and you can't forgot about the silver Leash change! Meditation will be great for resource management, and the time freeze move will be a great immobilizer for mobs. It's going to be a great time to be a Nightblade tank next update!0 -
Nevasca✭✭✭✭✭It feels most of the NB changes are going to have a bigger impact in PvP than PvE, yet I feel they were intended for PvE.
Bolstering is likely to become an excellent PvP skill, and swapping a self heal for invis might be to some of the more tanky types taste.
Dark Cloak will heal for pityful numbers in PvP, and 3s of minor protection is not worth a slot. Bolstering being more useful in PvP is a good thing. Unless you're healing or offhealing, NBs usually have 0 group utility.1 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭It feels most of the NB changes are going to have a bigger impact in PvP than PvE, yet I feel they were intended for PvE.
Bolstering is likely to become an excellent PvP skill, and swapping a self heal for invis might be to some of the more tanky types taste.
that's true with most the changes they make. PvE is Static, they can't really change PvE by changes classes at least not significantly. to make changes to PvE they would have to actually change the mobs and their AI. otherwise, it's really pointless.
For my tank (really excited about btw) I plan to have both aggressive Warhorn and Bolstering slotted. Each ultimate will have a use, it just depends on the situation. The Dark Cloak change is fantastic! I just wish it scaled off your highest stat since my tank usually has around 25% weapon crit, and 10% spell crit at all times. Oh and you can't forgot about the silver Leash change! Meditation will be great for resource management, and the time freeze move will be a great immobilizer for mobs. It's going to be a great time to be a Nightblade tank next update!
yeah but the mobs are still the same. they haven't changed at all. i dunno, i'm just jaded to pve i guess.Invictus0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Littlebluelizard wrote: »It feels most of the NB changes are going to have a bigger impact in PvP than PvE, yet I feel they were intended for PvE.
Bolstering is likely to become an excellent PvP skill, and swapping a self heal for invis might be to some of the more tanky types taste.
Dark Cloak will heal for pityful numbers in PvP, and 3s of minor protection is not worth a slot. Bolstering being more useful in PvP is a good thing. Unless you're healing or offhealing, NBs usually have 0 group utility.
It depends on your health bar. If you have the standard 20k then you're looking at 800 health per second for 4 seconds (when you max out for Shadow passives). Get your health bar around 25k, and you're looking at 1k/sec which isn't that bad, but you're giving up 5k Stam/magicka for it.0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Littlebluelizard wrote: »It feels most of the NB changes are going to have a bigger impact in PvP than PvE, yet I feel they were intended for PvE.
Bolstering is likely to become an excellent PvP skill, and swapping a self heal for invis might be to some of the more tanky types taste.
Dark Cloak will heal for pityful numbers in PvP, and 3s of minor protection is not worth a slot. Bolstering being more useful in PvP is a good thing. Unless you're healing or offhealing, NBs usually have 0 group utility.
yeah i like Veil but haven't really used it in PvP for a long time. the change to bolstering is actually making me consider.Invictus0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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Dependa isn't it another heal over time if so if you make it scale off max crit if you have 25k health it pretty good and it allow you to drop rally.Littlebluelizard wrote: »It feels most of the NB changes are going to have a bigger impact in PvP than PvE, yet I feel they were intended for PvE.
Bolstering is likely to become an excellent PvP skill, and swapping a self heal for invis might be to some of the more tanky types taste.
Dark Cloak will heal for pityful numbers in PvP, and 3s of minor protection is not worth a slot. Bolstering being more useful in PvP is a good thing. Unless you're healing or offhealing, NBs usually have 0 group utility.
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Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
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Dependa isn't it another heal over time if so if you make it scale off max crit if you have 25k health it pretty good and it allow you to drop rally.Littlebluelizard wrote: »It feels most of the NB changes are going to have a bigger impact in PvP than PvE, yet I feel they were intended for PvE.
Bolstering is likely to become an excellent PvP skill, and swapping a self heal for invis might be to some of the more tanky types taste.
Dark Cloak will heal for pityful numbers in PvP, and 3s of minor protection is not worth a slot. Bolstering being more useful in PvP is a good thing. Unless you're healing or offhealing, NBs usually have 0 group utility.
I'd suggest dropping rally for forward Momentum regardless next update. Otherwise you'll be free AP to magicka players. Your damage will be garbage if you can't get close to them.0
