PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance

SirSocke

So funny this forums. Here we cry for nerfing incap because in PvP every kill is done by incap.
In an other thread they cry for nerfs to dawnbreaker because every death is reasoned by dawnbreaker.
Some were else every kill is done by rage. Oh, not to forget frags...
Here for cloaknerfs, there for shieldnerfs...

Come on, discuss on a less biased level, please. Every damageskill can be dodged, shielded, healed or blocked and if not, it has its special counters. Every defenceskill has its counters too.

Less crying, more constructive discussion, please.

Feanor

@SirSocke

The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.

ccfeeling

Hi there , I have a question with the Malevolent Offering in PTS .

Shrewd Offering - Can caster heal himself if target boss ? ( Cannot cast in current live , PS4 NA ) How about if caster target no one , is it self heal ?

Healthy Offering - As I know *** changed to smart heal , so there is not possible I cast *** for myself unless groupmates all are full HP but me , is it?

Roger_kun

Stupid PVP players.

"Pls nerf" "Too OP" "It killed me in PvP on PTS" "Here's a video and some pictures of me cheesing on a PvE dummy to "prove it""

More than half of the nerfs in the PVE are from the whining of PVP players. Enough to kill PVE due to the fact that you have crooked hands and you can not play!

BohnT

Roger_kun wrote: »

Stupid PVP players.

"Pls nerf" "Too OP" "It killed me in PvP on PTS" "Here's a video and some pictures of me cheesing on a PvE dummy to "prove it""

More than half of the nerfs in the PVE are from the whining of PVP players. Enough to kill PVE due to the fact that you have crooked hands and you can not play!

Wrong many nerfs are due to both PvE and PvP. You just see no NPCs coming to the forums and demanding balance

BohnT

Feanor wrote: »

@SirSocke

The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.

With the small difference that DBoS isn't overloaded. You get Damage+stun and some passives.

Incap however gives you 2 debuffs+damage+stun + passives + latency bugs

Also i completely disagree with you on removing the damage buff on incap. That's the only skill in the game that has the debuff vulnerability (not empower) and it's the a huge reason why nightblades perform good in pve and PvP. In pve it's just a very good damage increase and in PvP it gives nbs enough pressure to kill people without needing a delayed burst skill.
The only thing that needs to be removed is the CC. Soul harvest does the same thing but it's not an issue because it doesn't feature a CC.

Ofc you have to give Incap something to prevent it from being useless be it another small buff/debuff, snare or some out of combat utility

Derra

BohnT wrote: »

The only thing that needs to be removed is the CC. Soul harvest does the same thing but it's not an issue because it doesn't feature a CC.

Ofc you have to give Incap something to prevent it from being useless be it another small buff/debuff, snare or some out of combat utility

To be honest i´m not too sure about the CC part.
Personally my gripe with incap isn´t really dying outright to it but the really high pressure due to increased dmg + healdebuff afterwards.

To keep it more distinct from harvest i´d remove the healdebuff on incap but keep the stun.

That´s just personal preference though i guess.

Meld777

I am not a professional PvPer. But when I did PvP and duels, I was dodging 9 out of 10 Incaps. If you learned to play, you know when it's gonna happen. As long as a skill is dodgeable, it doesn't need nerfs. Can't say the same about the Warden birds.

technohic

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

The only thing that needs to be removed is the CC. Soul harvest does the same thing but it's not an issue because it doesn't feature a CC.

Ofc you have to give Incap something to prevent it from being useless be it another small buff/debuff, snare or some out of combat utility

To be honest i´m not too sure about the CC part.
Personally my gripe with incap isn´t really dying outright to it but the really high pressure due to increased dmg + healdebuff afterwards.

To keep it more distinct from harvest i´d remove the healdebuff on incap but keep the stun.

That´s just personal preference though i guess.

The stuns not really needed on NB though, and these days you can’t run much without a defile.

I personally like ultimates that are effective. We are down to what? Incap, DBOS, meteor , leap, and maybe soul assault and ballista on the outskirts now? Overload if you can land it. There’s a lot of dead weight out there.

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

The only thing that needs to be removed is the CC. Soul harvest does the same thing but it's not an issue because it doesn't feature a CC.

Ofc you have to give Incap something to prevent it from being useless be it another small buff/debuff, snare or some out of combat utility

To be honest i´m not too sure about the CC part.
Personally my gripe with incap isn´t really dying outright to it but the really high pressure due to increased dmg + healdebuff afterwards.

To keep it more distinct from harvest i´d remove the healdebuff on incap but keep the stun.

That´s just personal preference though i guess.

I guess only few players die directly to incaps damage.
The issue i have with the CC is that is completely puts the pressure off the chart.
If you get stunned by incap you are very likely to take one more skill straight to the face or a proc + the next hit.
You just eat so much additional damage due to the CC that the pressure afterwards will get you killed.
If you compare that to soul harvest you notice how 99% of all players use incap over soul harvest because you gain so much extra pressure with that CC.
What makes the CC even worse is that it's plagued by bugs which make it impossible sometimes to break it.

BohnT

Meld777 wrote: »

I am not a professional PvPer. But when I did PvP and duels, I was dodging 9 out of 10 Incaps. If you learned to play, you know when it's gonna happen. As long as a skill is dodgeable, it doesn't need nerfs. Can't say the same about the Warden birds.

Which players did you fought?
Actual pvpers or Gunter the Zergling that thinks animation cancelling is cheating and players using LA weaves should be banned.

I hit ~9/10 incaps and the miss is mainly due to shuffle or personal errors.
Also i can not count how often i hit players mid dodgeroll with incap and they died afterwards because they couldn't break free anymore a skill that relies on luck to be dodgeable in 2 instances (dodge in the right moment & praying that incap doesn't ignore dodge).

Feanor

@BohnT

Don’t trash talk Gunter the Zergling or he’ll use his new Xv1 toy and silver leash you right into the zerg . Seriously, Monday is the day. If 4.0.3 has Incap intact then I’m sure it will stay like that for another year.

Ragnaroek93

Feanor wrote: »

@SirSocke

The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.

Can you just stfu for once about a class which you don't play? I don't think anybody who still complains about rollerblades has actually played one on PTS. I lose either minor protection or critheals, Sloads is a hardcounter against nbs, 2h light attacks got nerfed, sorcs delete every stambuild who isn't a tank with their unavoidable wombo combo and other magbuilds can just pressure me to death because I can't outheal their stuff. You are one of these players who plays a trash build in a trash environment on purpose (no procs in no CP), so that you can just sit around and complain nonstop (mostly about stuff which you haven't even played).

Rollerblade will just be a noobstomper who isn't competitive in duels or group vs group. Heavy armor duel nb builds get *** by defile. Now rollerblades get *** by Sloads and unavoidable burst. Great. Why don't we do the same to sorc? You would probably agree that we need to nerf them out of competitive because they are a good noobstomper class as well. Don't forget to nerf their duel builds too (petsorc and max magicka builds huehuehue), it would be lame if there would be any sorc build which could win against cheesy duel builds. Your hypocrisy is disgusting at best.

Feanor

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@SirSocke

The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.

Can you just stfu for once about a class which you don't play? I don't think anybody who still complains about rollerblades has actually played one on PTS. I lose either minor protection or critheals, Sloads is a hardcounter against nbs, 2h light attacks got nerfed, sorcs delete every stambuild who isn't a tank with their unavoidable wombo combo and other magbuilds can just pressure me to death because I can't outheal their stuff. You are one of these players who plays a trash build in a trash environment on purpose (no procs in no CP), so that you can just sit around and complain nonstop (mostly about stuff which you haven't even played).

Rollerblade will just be a noobstomper who isn't competitive in duels or group vs group. Heavy armor duel nb builds get *** by defile. Now rollerblades get *** by Sloads and unavoidable burst. Great. Why don't we do the same to sorc? You would probably agree that we need to nerf them out of competitive because they are a good noobstomper class as well. Don't forget to nerf their duel builds too (petsorc and max magicka builds huehuehue), it would be lame if there would be any sorc build which could win against cheesy duel builds. Your hypocrisy is disgusting at best.

Maybe you’d be less salty if you actually read that I detest Rune Cage in the PTS iteration and don’t want it to go live for balance reasons. But then your picture of me having a Sorc agenda that involves nerfing NB all the time wouldn’t be accurate any longer.

As for the crit heals, according to your fellow NBs no stamBlade ever did get a cloak crit heal because they all run at least one DoT (which consumes the guaranteed crit). Hemorrhage heal crits where always a bug according to its tooltip.

It’s fine you think that all of this has anything to do with personal skill. I don’t care one bit.

Ragnaroek93

Feanor wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@SirSocke

The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.

Can you just stfu for once about a class which you don't play? I don't think anybody who still complains about rollerblades has actually played one on PTS. I lose either minor protection or critheals, Sloads is a hardcounter against nbs, 2h light attacks got nerfed, sorcs delete every stambuild who isn't a tank with their unavoidable wombo combo and other magbuilds can just pressure me to death because I can't outheal their stuff. You are one of these players who plays a trash build in a trash environment on purpose (no procs in no CP), so that you can just sit around and complain nonstop (mostly about stuff which you haven't even played).

Rollerblade will just be a noobstomper who isn't competitive in duels or group vs group. Heavy armor duel nb builds get *** by defile. Now rollerblades get *** by Sloads and unavoidable burst. Great. Why don't we do the same to sorc? You would probably agree that we need to nerf them out of competitive because they are a good noobstomper class as well. Don't forget to nerf their duel builds too (petsorc and max magicka builds huehuehue), it would be lame if there would be any sorc build which could win against cheesy duel builds. Your hypocrisy is disgusting at best.

Maybe you’d be less salty if you actually read that I detest Rune Cage in the PTS iteration and don’t want it to go live for balance reasons. But then your picture of me having a Sorc agenda that involves nerfing NB all the time wouldn’t be accurate any longer.

As for the crit heals, according to your fellow NBs no stamBlade ever did get a cloak crit heal because they all run at least one DoT (which consumes the guaranteed crit). Hemorrhage heal crits where always a bug according to its tooltip.

It’s fine you think that all of this has anything to do with personal skill. I don’t care one bit.

No, you clearly don't have an agenda. You are just posting more stuff in nb threads than people who actually play the class (and the stuff which you post isn't in favour of nbs). Maybe post less nonsense and actually play it on pts? Ofc you won't because your picture of rollerblade being OP wouldn't be accurate any longer

I used Dark Cloak for minor protection. The morph gets useless for my build. So I have to change to crit Cloak which gets nerfed (or maybe not because the new meta set Sloads hardcounters Cloak). So stop pretending that Nb comes out as the winner here and that magsorc gets out as the victim.

And I don't care a bit about your no CP adventures because the PvP is so broken and toxic there that it's laughable at best. I don't know anyone who plays a build which doesn't heavily rely on stuff like procs, troll king, poisons etc and enjoys no CP PvP. But it's your decision to cripple yourself if you want to but then don't complain.

Feanor

@Ragnaroek93

The guaranteed crit on cloak affecting heals was always a bug as the tooltip states that the next attack is a guaranteed crit. ZOS seems to think the same way because they changed it. Besides, again, your fellow NBs declared time after time that a cloak crit heal on StamNB wasn’t OP because it was a myth. So either them or you are incorrect. I don’t care that much any longer either way.

You see, I expected changes to the stealth play style. Apart from the strife nerf and the crit heal fixes there aren’t any, and I accept that. NBs being a high burst class with stealth on top is how ZOS apparently wants it to be. So be it. The forum is just there to talk a bit about the game. It’s nothing else. Or do you seriously think the reams of debate will change anything fundamentally on the game? It is what it is. Whether we agree or disagree, whether you think I’m a trash player or decent, it doesn’t matter. ZOS changes stuff according to their own view.

I don’t know where you got the notion NB comes out as the winner and Sorcs as the victim. I just don’t enjoy cheese, no matter which class has it. For the same reason I prefer noCP without proc sets. You call it gimping yourself, to me it’s a challenge. Different view points I guess.

Sloads by the way will be a pain for everyone. As it’s Oblivion damage Sorcs won’t have it better there either. It’s another proc set the game didn’t need.

P.S. The thread has now 550+ replies. I didn’t count, but less than 20 are from me. Hardly worth noting.

technohic

I keep seeing the NBs saying no one runs without DOTs. They should try it while you can still get those heals. At least in open world CP you wont miss much as you can pull the points out of Thaum

Subversus

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@SirSocke

The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.

Can you just stfu for once about a class which you don't play? I don't think anybody who still complains about rollerblades has actually played one on PTS. I lose either minor protection or critheals, Sloads is a hardcounter against nbs, 2h light attacks got nerfed, sorcs delete every stambuild who isn't a tank with their unavoidable wombo combo and other magbuilds can just pressure me to death because I can't outheal their stuff. You are one of these players who plays a trash build in a trash environment on purpose (no procs in no CP), so that you can just sit around and complain nonstop (mostly about stuff which you haven't even played).

Rollerblade will just be a noobstomper who isn't competitive in duels or group vs group. Heavy armor duel nb builds get *** by defile. Now rollerblades get *** by Sloads and unavoidable burst. Great. Why don't we do the same to sorc? You would probably agree that we need to nerf them out of competitive because they are a good noobstomper class as well. Don't forget to nerf their duel builds too (petsorc and max magicka builds huehuehue), it would be lame if there would be any sorc build which could win against cheesy duel builds. Your hypocrisy is disgusting at best.

Maybe you’d be less salty if you actually read that I detest Rune Cage in the PTS iteration and don’t want it to go live for balance reasons. But then your picture of me having a Sorc agenda that involves nerfing NB all the time wouldn’t be accurate any longer.

As for the crit heals, according to your fellow NBs no stamBlade ever did get a cloak crit heal because they all run at least one DoT (which consumes the guaranteed crit). Hemorrhage heal crits where always a bug according to its tooltip.

It’s fine you think that all of this has anything to do with personal skill. I don’t care one bit.

No, you clearly don't have an agenda. You are just posting more stuff in nb threads than people who actually play the class (and the stuff which you post isn't in favour of nbs). Maybe post less nonsense and actually play it on pts? Ofc you won't because your picture of rollerblade being OP wouldn't be accurate any longer

I used Dark Cloak for minor protection. The morph gets useless for my build. So I have to change to crit Cloak which gets nerfed (or maybe not because the new meta set Sloads hardcounters Cloak). So stop pretending that Nb comes out as the winner here and that magsorc gets out as the victim.

And I don't care a bit about your no CP adventures because the PvP is so broken and toxic there that it's laughable at best. I don't know anyone who plays a build which doesn't heavily rely on stuff like procs, troll king, poisons etc and enjoys no CP PvP. But it's your decision to cripple yourself if you want to but then don't complain.

Anyone claiming rollerblade is op on the pts is due for a rude awakening once they actually log in to see for themselves still better than like stamplar and stamdk, but weak compared to mag. Way weak.

olsborg

BohnT wrote: »

H4RDFOX wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Stamblade changes - PVP perspective only

For the lazy readers: nerf incap by changing major defile to minor OR by reducing the effect of major defile and the damage buff to 3 seconds.

Arguments:
No more guaranteed crit heals in cloak: I do agree a lot on the changes made to shadowy disguise. Nightblades (stam in particular) are the class that is supposed to have amongst the higher burst and kill potential in the game, not the ability to heal like crazy. Now, it will be more difficult to do it, so I'm happy with that (yes, I like hardcore gameplay, just as I like balance).

Incapacitating strike: I do realize a lot of people cry because of this since it is very strong, cheap and they might have some l2p issues, yet I would like to bring up a couple arguments:
- It is the cheapest ulti in the game, yet it is purely single target (not like leaps, meteor, dbos, crescent/empowering sweep, etc.). The only exception to this is soul harvest, obviously, and soul assault. The latter is better under certain pov because u can time it with curse/fissure/power of the light/inferno/deep breath/etc to gain an almost guaranteed kill on a non-blocking target. Yet, I do understand it is not as used as incap and is not perceived as strong now.
- The stun cannot be removed imo. Why? Because the only class/guild ulti that has direct damage as a main source of damage and does not stun are the templar's sweep (crescent & empowering) and soul harvest. As all pvpers might have noticed, it is rare to encounter a templar or magblade using one of these ultis because stun = opportunity window to kill someone. A perfect example is the fact that several magblades use incap for the stun (and defile) over soul harvest. Remove the stun, and 80% of stamblades will be using dbos. We want balance, not removing skills from a class' portfolio.
- The damage is on par with any other direct damage ultimate. Not higher than the ones providing a DoT (crescent sweep, dbos, meteor, and fragment, lol), yet lower than the ones with no secondary effect (leaps), which makes sense. Thus, a nerf to the damage would not make the skill balanced imo.
- A cost increase is not the solution. It will still hit overall too hard and people will continue to cry, as it has been in the past. Moreover, again, it is single target. With the ultimates above mentioned, almost every class can kill several targets if the positioning is correct and the preparatory phase to the ulti is correct. With incap you cannot. You need it to kill, and it allows you to kill only one target. Because of this, I do not believe an increase in the cost is the solution.

Proposed solutions:
Yet, incap is indeed a bit too strong but, especially, too easy to use. Even though it is indeed getting an indirect nerf via the change to empower, it needs a bit of rework. Thus, I propose ONE of the following:
- Change major defile to minor: lets be honest, defile is game changing. VERY strong, yet so common in the game from sets (cyro's crest, durok's), poisons and non-ulti skills (rev bash, warden's circle of death, dark flare). Imo defile should be something "difficult" to achieve and tied to something that does not grant an 100% uptime, just like an ultimate. Because of this, I do believe the removal of defile is wrong.For example: if you incap a non-potato dk, templar or warden and they break free with the reaction of a decent/good player, you will never kill them. They will just hold block and heal enough to get out of the danger zone. You need the defile to kill the tankiest targets, no doubt, but major might be too much, especially because of how well befoul scale (please change the scaling of that perk, prettyplease).
- Decrease the duration of both the major defile and the buff to the damage to 3 seconds (suggested change): 6 seconds is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. I don't like being incapped just as anybody else. Why? Because I know that for SIX seconds I will be at a disadvantage. Any good nightblade does not need and does not deserve so much time to kill someone. Nightblades are assassins, they should hit super hard and fast, and then disappear. This justifies the presence of both the defile and the increase in damage. Moreover, incap is the fundamental skill in every nightblade's killing rotation, and as almost every other class (sorc and warden excluded), they need that ultimate to kill someone that knows at least a bit what they are doing. Nbs (stam especially) are amongst the squishiest classes, and should (and do) have amongst the higher bursts. Yet, this does not justify a 6 second heal debuff and increase in damage. It is too much, not needed and not rewarding. 3 are more than enough to finish a target and will kill the threat that all non-skilled nightblades pose upon anyone in pvp.

I disagree. You have other class ults that provide Major "x" buffs at 8 (sorc storm atronarch, warden winters embrace), and 15 (dk Dragon Knight standard) seconds. Just as you stated, the NB class is an assassination one, and should be able to take out the target and escape into the shadows yet dark cloak is being changed to a non cloak ability. If there is a proposed change from major to minor with "x" time then all other ult's must follow suite. Death stroke and its morphs can be mitigated from block or dodge, so it should remain as is given this and the statements you've made.

With the small difference that they cost more than 2x the cost of incap.

But, they are hardly ever wasted. Incap gets dodged and you just threw 70 ult down the drain. That never happens with leap, hardly ever with dawnbreaker and never with any other ulti rly. Sure you can block those too, like meteor etc, but they still atleast have an effect albeit mediocre. If incap is dodged, you just spent 70 ult that made a sound and thats it. Just putting that fact out there.

Ragnarock41

Subversus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@SirSocke

The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.

Can you just stfu for once about a class which you don't play? I don't think anybody who still complains about rollerblades has actually played one on PTS. I lose either minor protection or critheals, Sloads is a hardcounter against nbs, 2h light attacks got nerfed, sorcs delete every stambuild who isn't a tank with their unavoidable wombo combo and other magbuilds can just pressure me to death because I can't outheal their stuff. You are one of these players who plays a trash build in a trash environment on purpose (no procs in no CP), so that you can just sit around and complain nonstop (mostly about stuff which you haven't even played).

Rollerblade will just be a noobstomper who isn't competitive in duels or group vs group. Heavy armor duel nb builds get *** by defile. Now rollerblades get *** by Sloads and unavoidable burst. Great. Why don't we do the same to sorc? You would probably agree that we need to nerf them out of competitive because they are a good noobstomper class as well. Don't forget to nerf their duel builds too (petsorc and max magicka builds huehuehue), it would be lame if there would be any sorc build which could win against cheesy duel builds. Your hypocrisy is disgusting at best.

Maybe you’d be less salty if you actually read that I detest Rune Cage in the PTS iteration and don’t want it to go live for balance reasons. But then your picture of me having a Sorc agenda that involves nerfing NB all the time wouldn’t be accurate any longer.

As for the crit heals, according to your fellow NBs no stamBlade ever did get a cloak crit heal because they all run at least one DoT (which consumes the guaranteed crit). Hemorrhage heal crits where always a bug according to its tooltip.

It’s fine you think that all of this has anything to do with personal skill. I don’t care one bit.

No, you clearly don't have an agenda. You are just posting more stuff in nb threads than people who actually play the class (and the stuff which you post isn't in favour of nbs). Maybe post less nonsense and actually play it on pts? Ofc you won't because your picture of rollerblade being OP wouldn't be accurate any longer

I used Dark Cloak for minor protection. The morph gets useless for my build. So I have to change to crit Cloak which gets nerfed (or maybe not because the new meta set Sloads hardcounters Cloak). So stop pretending that Nb comes out as the winner here and that magsorc gets out as the victim.

And I don't care a bit about your no CP adventures because the PvP is so broken and toxic there that it's laughable at best. I don't know anyone who plays a build which doesn't heavily rely on stuff like procs, troll king, poisons etc and enjoys no CP PvP. But it's your decision to cripple yourself if you want to but then don't complain.

Anyone claiming rollerblade is op on the pts is due for a rude awakening once they actually log in to see for themselves still better than like stamplar and stamdk, but weak compared to mag. Way weak.

or could it be that magicka is op next patch? I think medium armor will go back to being a nightblade exclusive.

Subversus

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@SirSocke

The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.

Can you just stfu for once about a class which you don't play? I don't think anybody who still complains about rollerblades has actually played one on PTS. I lose either minor protection or critheals, Sloads is a hardcounter against nbs, 2h light attacks got nerfed, sorcs delete every stambuild who isn't a tank with their unavoidable wombo combo and other magbuilds can just pressure me to death because I can't outheal their stuff. You are one of these players who plays a trash build in a trash environment on purpose (no procs in no CP), so that you can just sit around and complain nonstop (mostly about stuff which you haven't even played).

Rollerblade will just be a noobstomper who isn't competitive in duels or group vs group. Heavy armor duel nb builds get *** by defile. Now rollerblades get *** by Sloads and unavoidable burst. Great. Why don't we do the same to sorc? You would probably agree that we need to nerf them out of competitive because they are a good noobstomper class as well. Don't forget to nerf their duel builds too (petsorc and max magicka builds huehuehue), it would be lame if there would be any sorc build which could win against cheesy duel builds. Your hypocrisy is disgusting at best.

Maybe you’d be less salty if you actually read that I detest Rune Cage in the PTS iteration and don’t want it to go live for balance reasons. But then your picture of me having a Sorc agenda that involves nerfing NB all the time wouldn’t be accurate any longer.

As for the crit heals, according to your fellow NBs no stamBlade ever did get a cloak crit heal because they all run at least one DoT (which consumes the guaranteed crit). Hemorrhage heal crits where always a bug according to its tooltip.

It’s fine you think that all of this has anything to do with personal skill. I don’t care one bit.

No, you clearly don't have an agenda. You are just posting more stuff in nb threads than people who actually play the class (and the stuff which you post isn't in favour of nbs). Maybe post less nonsense and actually play it on pts? Ofc you won't because your picture of rollerblade being OP wouldn't be accurate any longer

I used Dark Cloak for minor protection. The morph gets useless for my build. So I have to change to crit Cloak which gets nerfed (or maybe not because the new meta set Sloads hardcounters Cloak). So stop pretending that Nb comes out as the winner here and that magsorc gets out as the victim.

And I don't care a bit about your no CP adventures because the PvP is so broken and toxic there that it's laughable at best. I don't know anyone who plays a build which doesn't heavily rely on stuff like procs, troll king, poisons etc and enjoys no CP PvP. But it's your decision to cripple yourself if you want to but then don't complain.

Anyone claiming rollerblade is op on the pts is due for a rude awakening once they actually log in to see for themselves still better than like stamplar and stamdk, but weak compared to mag. Way weak.

or could it be that magicka is op next patch? I think medium armor will go back to being a nightblade exclusive.

I never said why rollerblade is bad in my post, but if you want a reason then yeah: magicka is quite strong. The 2h change was very beneficial to magicka. Rollerblade will still be the best out of the medium stam classes, but quite behind magicka.

Derra

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

No, you clearly don't have an agenda. You are just posting more stuff in nb threads than people who actually play the class (and the stuff which you post isn't in favour of nbs).

I could name 3 nbs on top of my head doing the same thing in the sorc topic though

olsborg wrote: »

But, they are hardly ever wasted. Incap gets dodged and you just threw 70 ult down the drain. That never happens with leap, hardly ever with dawnbreaker and never with any other ulti rly. Sure you can block those too, like meteor etc, but they still atleast have an effect albeit mediocre. If incap is dodged, you just spent 70 ult that made a sound and thats it. Just putting that fact out there.

Leap misses all the time against targets that have movement speed.
Overload is also getting dodged and you´re able to fire it into thin air.

But then i´m really not a fan of nerfing incap and if i´d remove the healdebuff on incap and put it on stamina assassins will morph (+ give that one the same audiocue as magica has).

Feanor

@Derra

Once more: I don’t have a class specific agenda. I have actually posted a lot more on the Sorc thread than on here.

Derra

Feanor wrote: »

@Derra

Once more: I don’t have a class specific agenda. I have actually posted a lot more on the Sorc thread than on here.

Didn´t want to imply that - i haven´t read everything here.

But i wanted to state that what he´s accusing you of clearly does happen the other way around aswell.

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

No, you clearly don't have an agenda. You are just posting more stuff in nb threads than people who actually play the class (and the stuff which you post isn't in favour of nbs).

I could name 3 nbs on top of my head doing the same thing in the sorc topic though

olsborg wrote: »

But, they are hardly ever wasted. Incap gets dodged and you just threw 70 ult down the drain. That never happens with leap, hardly ever with dawnbreaker and never with any other ulti rly. Sure you can block those too, like meteor etc, but they still atleast have an effect albeit mediocre. If incap is dodged, you just spent 70 ult that made a sound and thats it. Just putting that fact out there.

Leap misses all the time against targets that have movement speed.
Overload is also getting dodged and you´re able to fire it into thin air.

But then i´m really not a fan of nerfing incap and if i´d remove the healdebuff on incap and put it on stamina assassins will morph (+ give that one the same audiocue as magica has).

We need the names for discussion.
Regardless both side say right things but with the wrong intentions and ideas.


Leap even misses stationary targets from time to time
Crescent is so bad that no one even mentions it


Also I'm for nerfing incap for various reasons but the main one is that an ultimate this cheap shouldn't change a fight as easy as incap does.
A 200 cost meteor, 150 cost soul tether, bat swarm, or things like Nova, SoM don't change the course if a battle like incap can.

I can just repeat myself just from swapping soul tether/ soul harvest to incap i won battles against players i didn't stand a chance before and that doesn't feel right

Derra

BohnT wrote: »

A 200 cost meteor, 150 cost soul tether, bat swarm, or things like Nova, SoM don't change the course if a battle like incap can.

I can just repeat myself just from swapping soul tether/ soul harvest to incap i won battles against players i didn't stand a chance before and that doesn't feel right

The issue with nerfing incap for stamblade is a design one for me.
Stamblade is very clearly designed as a frontloaded burst class.
This needs "overloaded" abilities like incap to function properly given how volatile HPbars are in eso.

Having that burst disrupted by the requirement to cast a nondmg cc would imo almost have the potential to destroy the class as it exists now for the majority of it´s playerbase.

Imo this kind of overloaded ability is fine for the role that stamblade is supposed to fill in esos combat sytem.
It gets problematic when used by magblade, heavy bleedblade + tk.
Generally speaking these kind of abilities shouldn´t exist on classes with delayed burst or heavy dot dmg.
On classic roller stamblade i don´t think it´s broken pre se.

Subversus

Derra wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

No, you clearly don't have an agenda. You are just posting more stuff in nb threads than people who actually play the class (and the stuff which you post isn't in favour of nbs).

I could name 3 nbs on top of my head doing the same thing in the sorc topic though

olsborg wrote: »

But, they are hardly ever wasted. Incap gets dodged and you just threw 70 ult down the drain. That never happens with leap, hardly ever with dawnbreaker and never with any other ulti rly. Sure you can block those too, like meteor etc, but they still atleast have an effect albeit mediocre. If incap is dodged, you just spent 70 ult that made a sound and thats it. Just putting that fact out there.

Leap misses all the time against targets that have movement speed.
Overload is also getting dodged and you´re able to fire it into thin air.

But then i´m really not a fan of nerfing incap and if i´d remove the healdebuff on incap and put it on stamina assassins will morph (+ give that one the same audiocue as magica has).

To be completely fair, everybody has an agenda. I don’t like my 30k hp heavy magblade to get 1 hit with 0 counterplay, and I’m sure you wouldn’t dislike having the pts cage on your sorc (or a variation of it). The suggestions you gave for changing cage were clearly made from solely a sorc’s point of view, but whatever.

You said it yourself: you don’t care about honor anymore, you’d play whatever is the most op. No reason to go on and say how you wouldn’t like your main to suddenly fill that role.

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

A 200 cost meteor, 150 cost soul tether, bat swarm, or things like Nova, SoM don't change the course if a battle like incap can.

I can just repeat myself just from swapping soul tether/ soul harvest to incap i won battles against players i didn't stand a chance before and that doesn't feel right

The issue with nerfing incap for stamblade is a design one for me.
Stamblade is very clearly designed as a frontloaded burst class.
This needs "overloaded" abilities like incap to function properly given how volatile HPbars are in eso.

Having that burst disrupted by the requirement to cast a nondmg cc would imo almost have the potential to destroy the class as it exists now for the majority of it´s playerbase.

Imo this kind of overloaded ability is fine for the role that stamblade is supposed to fill in esos combat sytem.
It gets problematic when used by magblade, heavy bleedblade + tk.
Generally speaking these kind of abilities shouldn´t exist on classes with delayed burst or heavy dot dmg.
On classic roller stamblade i don´t think it´s broken pre se.

The game has changed too much to have such a frontloaded burst class, every build can somewhat survive OW in a fight against another player but with frontloaded burst and cloak you can control a fight on a stamnb eventhough you could even do so if you didn't have access to cloak.
With the sustain changes stamnb got a combat buff because it's more punishing now to get back into the fight after you got hit by a burst. As NB can also take breaks during a battle with shade and cloak you can run with less regen and more damage than other classes while you aren't giving up lots of survivability.

A change to incap would move stamnb from a für scene assassin (exaggerated: kill everyone with ease and being untouchable) to an berserk Kind of assassin that goes into the fight dishing out lots of damage, that can get out of the fight but has to do sacrifices to either get the kill or survive the fight.
Because that's what i don't have atm. If i fight anyone without a good way to break cloak (not an AoE that you have to spam) it's hard for me to die if i don't want to while he is always just seconds away from being killed.

Subversus

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

A 200 cost meteor, 150 cost soul tether, bat swarm, or things like Nova, SoM don't change the course if a battle like incap can.

I can just repeat myself just from swapping soul tether/ soul harvest to incap i won battles against players i didn't stand a chance before and that doesn't feel right

The issue with nerfing incap for stamblade is a design one for me.
Stamblade is very clearly designed as a frontloaded burst class.
This needs "overloaded" abilities like incap to function properly given how volatile HPbars are in eso.

Having that burst disrupted by the requirement to cast a nondmg cc would imo almost have the potential to destroy the class as it exists now for the majority of it´s playerbase.

Imo this kind of overloaded ability is fine for the role that stamblade is supposed to fill in esos combat sytem.
It gets problematic when used by magblade, heavy bleedblade + tk.
Generally speaking these kind of abilities shouldn´t exist on classes with delayed burst or heavy dot dmg.
On classic roller stamblade i don´t think it´s broken pre se.

The game has changed too much to have such a frontloaded burst class, every build can somewhat survive OW in a fight against another player but with frontloaded burst and cloak you can control a fight on a stamnb eventhough you could even do so if you didn't have access to cloak.
With the sustain changes stamnb got a combat buff because it's more punishing now to get back into the fight after you got hit by a burst. As NB can also take breaks during a battle with shade and cloak you can run with less regen and more damage than other classes while you aren't giving up lots of survivability.

A change to incap would move stamnb from a für scene assassin (exaggerated: kill everyone with ease and being untouchable) to an berserk Kind of assassin that goes into the fight dishing out lots of damage, that can get out of the fight but has to do sacrifices to either get the kill or survive the fight.
Because that's what i don't have atm. If i fight anyone without a good way to break cloak (not an AoE that you have to spam) it's hard for me to die if i don't want to while he is always just seconds away from being killed.

I agree with you on the incap part. It needs to get nerfed. If it’s better for magicka classes than actual magicka ults, then you realize there’s a problem.

I do believe rollerblades are fine on the pts though, no need to mess with them.

BohnT

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

A 200 cost meteor, 150 cost soul tether, bat swarm, or things like Nova, SoM don't change the course if a battle like incap can.

I can just repeat myself just from swapping soul tether/ soul harvest to incap i won battles against players i didn't stand a chance before and that doesn't feel right

The issue with nerfing incap for stamblade is a design one for me.
Stamblade is very clearly designed as a frontloaded burst class.
This needs "overloaded" abilities like incap to function properly given how volatile HPbars are in eso.

Having that burst disrupted by the requirement to cast a nondmg cc would imo almost have the potential to destroy the class as it exists now for the majority of it´s playerbase.

Imo this kind of overloaded ability is fine for the role that stamblade is supposed to fill in esos combat sytem.
It gets problematic when used by magblade, heavy bleedblade + tk.
Generally speaking these kind of abilities shouldn´t exist on classes with delayed burst or heavy dot dmg.
On classic roller stamblade i don´t think it´s broken pre se.

The game has changed too much to have such a frontloaded burst class, every build can somewhat survive OW in a fight against another player but with frontloaded burst and cloak you can control a fight on a stamnb eventhough you could even do so if you didn't have access to cloak.
With the sustain changes stamnb got a combat buff because it's more punishing now to get back into the fight after you got hit by a burst. As NB can also take breaks during a battle with shade and cloak you can run with less regen and more damage than other classes while you aren't giving up lots of survivability.

A change to incap would move stamnb from a für scene assassin (exaggerated: kill everyone with ease and being untouchable) to an berserk Kind of assassin that goes into the fight dishing out lots of damage, that can get out of the fight but has to do sacrifices to either get the kill or survive the fight.
Because that's what i don't have atm. If i fight anyone without a good way to break cloak (not an AoE that you have to spam) it's hard for me to die if i don't want to while he is always just seconds away from being killed.

I agree with you on the incap part. It needs to get nerfed. If it’s better for magicka classes than actual magicka ults, then you realize there’s a problem.

I do believe rollerblades are fine on the pts though, no need to mess with them.

The rollerblades are still a curse for stamplar and stamdk but i guess Zos stopped thinking about those specs a long time ago

I wouldn't mind rollerblades if there was an actual benefit for them to stay in active combat but i just don't see that atm and that's something i didn't like about sorcs in the past and i don't like it today