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PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance
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Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭A 200 cost meteor, 150 cost soul tether, bat swarm, or things like Nova, SoM don't change the course if a battle like incap can.
I can just repeat myself just from swapping soul tether/ soul harvest to incap i won battles against players i didn't stand a chance before and that doesn't feel right
The issue with nerfing incap for stamblade is a design one for me.
Stamblade is very clearly designed as a frontloaded burst class.
This needs "overloaded" abilities like incap to function properly given how volatile HPbars are in eso.
Having that burst disrupted by the requirement to cast a nondmg cc would imo almost have the potential to destroy the class as it exists now for the majority of it´s playerbase.
Imo this kind of overloaded ability is fine for the role that stamblade is supposed to fill in esos combat sytem.
It gets problematic when used by magblade, heavy bleedblade + tk.
Generally speaking these kind of abilities shouldn´t exist on classes with delayed burst or heavy dot dmg.
On classic roller stamblade i don´t think it´s broken pre se.
The game has changed too much to have such a frontloaded burst class, every build can somewhat survive OW in a fight against another player but with frontloaded burst and cloak you can control a fight on a stamnb eventhough you could even do so if you didn't have access to cloak.
With the sustain changes stamnb got a combat buff because it's more punishing now to get back into the fight after you got hit by a burst. As NB can also take breaks during a battle with shade and cloak you can run with less regen and more damage than other classes while you aren't giving up lots of survivability.
A change to incap would move stamnb from a für scene assassin (exaggerated: kill everyone with ease and being untouchable) to an berserk Kind of assassin that goes into the fight dishing out lots of damage, that can get out of the fight but has to do sacrifices to either get the kill or survive the fight.
Because that's what i don't have atm. If i fight anyone without a good way to break cloak (not an AoE that you have to spam) it's hard for me to die if i don't want to while he is always just seconds away from being killed.
I agree with you on the incap part. It needs to get nerfed. If it’s better for magicka classes than actual magicka ults, then you realize there’s a problem.
I do believe rollerblades are fine on the pts though, no need to mess with them.
The rollerblades are still a curse for stamplar and stamdk but i guess Zos stopped thinking about those specs a long time ago
I wouldn't mind rollerblades if there was an actual benefit for them to stay in active combat but i just don't see that atm and that's something i didn't like about sorcs in the past and i don't like it today
To be fair, the reason I like my sorc so much is the streak/dark deal combo in open world. As you said, sorc benefits a lot from breaking combat I feel. Ever since I made it in like TG when it was stupid op I’ve loved it, with a few breaks.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »@SirSocke
The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.
Can you just stfu for once about a class which you don't play? I don't think anybody who still complains about rollerblades has actually played one on PTS. I lose either minor protection or critheals, Sloads is a hardcounter against nbs, 2h light attacks got nerfed, sorcs delete every stambuild who isn't a tank with their unavoidable wombo combo and other magbuilds can just pressure me to death because I can't outheal their stuff. You are one of these players who plays a trash build in a trash environment on purpose (no procs in no CP), so that you can just sit around and complain nonstop (mostly about stuff which you haven't even played).
Rollerblade will just be a noobstomper who isn't competitive in duels or group vs group. Heavy armor duel nb builds get *** by defile. Now rollerblades get *** by Sloads and unavoidable burst. Great. Why don't we do the same to sorc? You would probably agree that we need to nerf them out of competitive because they are a good noobstomper class as well. Don't forget to nerf their duel builds too (petsorc and max magicka builds huehuehue), it would be lame if there would be any sorc build which could win against cheesy duel builds. Your hypocrisy is disgusting at best.
Maybe you’d be less salty if you actually read that I detest Rune Cage in the PTS iteration and don’t want it to go live for balance reasons. But then your picture of me having a Sorc agenda that involves nerfing NB all the time wouldn’t be accurate any longer.
As for the crit heals, according to your fellow NBs no stamBlade ever did get a cloak crit heal because they all run at least one DoT (which consumes the guaranteed crit). Hemorrhage heal crits where always a bug according to its tooltip.
It’s fine you think that all of this has anything to do with personal skill. I don’t care one bit.
No, you clearly don't have an agenda. You are just posting more stuff in nb threads than people who actually play the class (and the stuff which you post isn't in favour of nbs). Maybe post less nonsense and actually play it on pts? Ofc you won't because your picture of rollerblade being OP wouldn't be accurate any longer
I used Dark Cloak for minor protection. The morph gets useless for my build. So I have to change to crit Cloak which gets nerfed (or maybe not because the new meta set Sloads hardcounters Cloak). So stop pretending that Nb comes out as the winner here and that magsorc gets out as the victim.
And I don't care a bit about your no CP adventures because the PvP is so broken and toxic there that it's laughable at best. I don't know anyone who plays a build which doesn't heavily rely on stuff like procs, troll king, poisons etc and enjoys no CP PvP. But it's your decision to cripple yourself if you want to but then don't complain.
Anyone claiming rollerblade is op on the pts is due for a rude awakening once they actually log in to see for themselves still better than like stamplar and stamdk, but weak compared to mag. Way weak.
Not sure about this. If Sloads hit the live server in it's current state then rollerblade won't be viable@Ragnaroek93
The guaranteed crit on cloak affecting heals was always a bug as the tooltip states that the next attack is a guaranteed crit. ZOS seems to think the same way because they changed it. Besides, again, your fellow NBs declared time after time that a cloak crit heal on StamNB wasn’t OP because it was a myth. So either them or you are incorrect. I don’t care that much any longer either way.
You see, I expected changes to the stealth play style. Apart from the strife nerf and the crit heal fixes there aren’t any, and I accept that. NBs being a high burst class with stealth on top is how ZOS apparently wants it to be. So be it. The forum is just there to talk a bit about the game. It’s nothing else. Or do you seriously think the reams of debate will change anything fundamentally on the game? It is what it is. Whether we agree or disagree, whether you think I’m a trash player or decent, it doesn’t matter. ZOS changes stuff according to their own view.
I don’t know where you got the notion NB comes out as the winner and Sorcs as the victim. I just don’t enjoy cheese, no matter which class has it. For the same reason I prefer noCP without proc sets. You call it gimping yourself, to me it’s a challenge. Different view points I guess.
Sloads by the way will be a pain for everyone. As it’s Oblivion damage Sorcs won’t have it better there either. It’s another proc set the game didn’t need.
P.S. The thread has now 550+ replies. I didn’t count, but less than 20 are from me. Hardly worth noting.
Doesn't change anything when you demand further nerfs without having it played on PTS. On live server I lost one duel on my rollerblade today (did around 20) and on PTS I lose to everyone using Sloads or playing a decent magicka build.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »No, you clearly don't have an agenda. You are just posting more stuff in nb threads than people who actually play the class (and the stuff which you post isn't in favour of nbs).
I could name 3 nbs on top of my head doing the same thing in the sorc topic though
The nbs in the sorc thread at least played it on PTS. I think we would see more than 3 forumsorcs ravaging in the nb topic if rollerblade would be as dominant as magsorc is on PTS
I can name more than 3 sorcs who are biased (and toxic on top of that, not saying that the nb comm are saints tho, I received a lot hate from them as well when I made a thread against Cloak but this doesn't matter anymore anyways).I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think we can agree that both magsorc and stamnb have the most toxic forum lobby.
Why this is i have some ideas but i better not share them 0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think we can agree that both magsorc and stamnb have the most toxic forum lobby.
Why this is i have some ideas but i better not share them
I guess it’s because they are both great at killing weaker players quickly. That fosters a lot of hate.
@Ragnaroek93
If it makes you happy I’ll refrain from posting about NBs. @BohnT is covering that area well enough anyway
. I’d just like to know why I’m called toxic now. That would really be interesting to me. And no, I’m not biased as my opinion about RC still stands. Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think we can agree that both magsorc and stamnb have the most toxic forum lobby.
Why this is i have some ideas but i better not share them
I guess it’s because they are both great at killing weaker players quickly. That fosters a lot of hate.
@Ragnaroek93
If it makes you happy I’ll refrain from posting about NBs. @BohnT is covering that area well enough anyway. I’d just like to know why I’m called toxic now. That would really be interesting to me. And no, I’m not biased as my opinion about RC still stands.
Did not have you in mind when I talked about sorcs who are toxic. But since you are playing on the same server like I do you probably know of which sorcs I'm talking about...I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leendertp1 wrote: »Best/easiest way to fix siphoning attacks is to change to heal/return resources on direct damage so that it is procc'ed by sap essence and funnel health. Halve the resource return or whatever maths says is the right answer so that DD builds are neutral and Sap Tanks become much stronger again.
I tanked 6 keys on my Argonian nightblade sap tank last night. Honestly, resources were very easy and I don't even run the stam return morph of siphoning. I am Argonian, so it’s a bit OP but resources were fine. I was in 5 Tava and 5 Mending (Jewelry, SnB, Ice Staff). Sap Essence procs mending and then infused weakening and minor maim on the ice staff bar. So lots of damage reduction on enemies, not so much mitigation myself.
When I run with 3DD, my biggest issue is that I don't have a burst heal. Dark cloak addresses this to a degree (I have tested). But my primary issue with dark cloak is that it is pure health based, which is not great given the play style you want from a nightblade tank. It should scale off magicka and health, like coagulating blood because as a Sap tank you should be running a pretty high magicka pool to amplify your damage and as a result your support heals. So a pure health based self-heal is conflicting with nightblade tanks and amplifying their funnel and sap heals. Like I said in the other thread; it should heal me the same whether I have 60k Health and 0 Magicka or 30k Health and 25k Magicka.
The other thing we lack is just plain mitigation. We are much squishier than DK's and Wardens. I have one of each and you can feel the difference. This is the hardest thing and most frustrating thing about my Sap Tank. If I want to support my group I get really squishy. It is only an issue in the harder HM DLC dungeons, but irritating nonetheless. This could have been helped by making silver leash viable and not complete trash. I posted in another thread, but it’s much too slow and costs a ton of stamina while still doing damage, no one will be able to use it. You give all the tanks that don’t have a great stamina return mechanisms a chain that costs like 4k stamina. It’s not well thought through. All this while it still does damage, no tank will care about that damage. So easy fix is make it 1k stamina and remove the damage. The animation is also terrible and much too slow, but at least this won’t kill the skill as certainly as the stamina cost. As long as we can’t chain mobs we can’t wear Blood Spawn/Lord Warden/Pirate Skeleton or whatever else to help us be tankier or support the group more if there are ranged adds. Warden can wear swarm mothers and be fine ironically they are also the only non-DK tank that could maybe afford to use leash.
I think Temporal Guard on Psijic is going to be important even if they don’t make dark cloak better. The downside of this is that it gimps our ultimate generation if we cant front bar soul harvest. Front bar soul harvest is the only way we can ever be competitive with other tanks because of major force uptime.
You seldom get killing blows as a tank so soul harvest isn't as appealing as it seems. It's really furstratingFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@SirSocke
The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.
With the small difference that DBoS isn't overloaded. You get Damage+stun and some passives.
Incap however gives you 2 debuffs+damage+stun + passives + latency bugs
Also i completely disagree with you on removing the damage buff on incap. That's the only skill in the game that has the debuff vulnerability (not empower) and it's the a huge reason why nightblades perform good in pve and PvP. In pve it's just a very good damage increase and in PvP it gives nbs enough pressure to kill people without needing a delayed burst skill.
The only thing that needs to be removed is the CC. Soul harvest does the same thing but it's not an issue because it doesn't feature a CC.
Ofc you have to give Incap something to prevent it from being useless be it another small buff/debuff, snare or some out of combat utility
Forgot to mention DBoS also hate latency issues like every skill in the game + AoE + applies a nice DoT effect to all targets in the areaFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭A 200 cost meteor, 150 cost soul tether, bat swarm, or things like Nova, SoM don't change the course if a battle like incap can.
I can just repeat myself just from swapping soul tether/ soul harvest to incap i won battles against players i didn't stand a chance before and that doesn't feel right
The issue with nerfing incap for stamblade is a design one for me.
Stamblade is very clearly designed as a frontloaded burst class.
This needs "overloaded" abilities like incap to function properly given how volatile HPbars are in eso.
Having that burst disrupted by the requirement to cast a nondmg cc would imo almost have the potential to destroy the class as it exists now for the majority of it´s playerbase.
Imo this kind of overloaded ability is fine for the role that stamblade is supposed to fill in esos combat sytem.
It gets problematic when used by magblade, heavy bleedblade + tk.
Generally speaking these kind of abilities shouldn´t exist on classes with delayed burst or heavy dot dmg.
On classic roller stamblade i don´t think it´s broken pre se.
The game has changed too much to have such a frontloaded burst class, every build can somewhat survive OW in a fight against another player but with frontloaded burst and cloak you can control a fight on a stamnb eventhough you could even do so if you didn't have access to cloak.
With the sustain changes stamnb got a combat buff because it's more punishing now to get back into the fight after you got hit by a burst. As NB can also take breaks during a battle with shade and cloak you can run with less regen and more damage than other classes while you aren't giving up lots of survivability.
A change to incap would move stamnb from a für scene assassin (exaggerated: kill everyone with ease and being untouchable) to an berserk Kind of assassin that goes into the fight dishing out lots of damage, that can get out of the fight but has to do sacrifices to either get the kill or survive the fight.
Because that's what i don't have atm. If i fight anyone without a good way to break cloak (not an AoE that you have to spam) it's hard for me to die if i don't want to while he is always just seconds away from being killed.
I agree with you on the incap part. It needs to get nerfed. If it’s better for magicka classes than actual magicka ults, then you realize there’s a problem.
I do believe rollerblades are fine on the pts though, no need to mess with them.
i used to use harvest over incap. but then they nerfed harvest (why they did they do it?, i dunno but they did) so incap was just the flat out better choice.Edited by Lucky28 on May 4, 2018 6:07PMInvictus1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@SirSocke
The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.
With the small difference that DBoS isn't overloaded. You get Damage+stun and some passives.
Incap however gives you 2 debuffs+damage+stun + passives + latency bugs
Also i completely disagree with you on removing the damage buff on incap. That's the only skill in the game that has the debuff vulnerability (not empower) and it's the a huge reason why nightblades perform good in pve and PvP. In pve it's just a very good damage increase and in PvP it gives nbs enough pressure to kill people without needing a delayed burst skill.
The only thing that needs to be removed is the CC. Soul harvest does the same thing but it's not an issue because it doesn't feature a CC.
Ofc you have to give Incap something to prevent it from being useless be it another small buff/debuff, snare or some out of combat utility
Forgot to mention DBoS also hate latency issues like every skill in the game + AoE + applies a nice DoT effect to all targets in the area
DBoS has negative latency issues for the user because the skill doesn't connect.
Incap has positive latency issues as from time to time it ignores cc immunity or dodge roll.
Stop this useless DBoS vs Incap discussion. Incap is an overloaded skill while DBoS is the only useable ult for 3 Stamina classes.
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Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@SirSocke
The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.
With the small difference that DBoS isn't overloaded. You get Damage+stun and some passives.
Incap however gives you 2 debuffs+damage+stun + passives + latency bugs
Also i completely disagree with you on removing the damage buff on incap. That's the only skill in the game that has the debuff vulnerability (not empower) and it's the a huge reason why nightblades perform good in pve and PvP. In pve it's just a very good damage increase and in PvP it gives nbs enough pressure to kill people without needing a delayed burst skill.
The only thing that needs to be removed is the CC. Soul harvest does the same thing but it's not an issue because it doesn't feature a CC.
Ofc you have to give Incap something to prevent it from being useless be it another small buff/debuff, snare or some out of combat utility
Forgot to mention DBoS also hate latency issues like every skill in the game + AoE + applies a nice DoT effect to all targets in the area
DBoS has negative latency issues for the user because the skill doesn't connect.
Incap has positive latency issues as from time to time it ignores cc immunity or dodge roll.
Stop this useless DBoS vs Incap discussion. Incap is an overloaded skill while DBoS is the only useable ult for 3 Stamina classes.
But on stam Warden I can slot the teddy and be cheesy in duels
I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭So from what I’m getting:
The Major Defile plus the enemy GCD loss on Incap hits other stamina builds more harshly than any build that utilizes a Damage Shield.
The AoE from Summon Shade is unpredictable.
And the Assassination skilline doesn’t have a good skill for NB tanks to utilize that makes good use of the executioner passive during trash pulls.
My two cents on the above:
Replace the defile on incap with a snare. (Keep the defile on Soul Harvest)
Make the shade AoE an activatable ability for the shade (like a sorc pet, give it a cost)
Make Mark Target debuff proc executioner (retool the executioner description)
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »@SirSocke
The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.
With the small difference that DBoS isn't overloaded. You get Damage+stun and some passives.
Incap however gives you 2 debuffs+damage+stun + passives + latency bugs
Also i completely disagree with you on removing the damage buff on incap. That's the only skill in the game that has the debuff vulnerability (not empower) and it's the a huge reason why nightblades perform good in pve and PvP. In pve it's just a very good damage increase and in PvP it gives nbs enough pressure to kill people without needing a delayed burst skill.
The only thing that needs to be removed is the CC. Soul harvest does the same thing but it's not an issue because it doesn't feature a CC.
Ofc you have to give Incap something to prevent it from being useless be it another small buff/debuff, snare or some out of combat utility
Forgot to mention DBoS also hate latency issues like every skill in the game + AoE + applies a nice DoT effect to all targets in the area
DBoS has negative latency issues for the user because the skill doesn't connect.
Incap has positive latency issues as from time to time it ignores cc immunity or dodge roll.
Stop this useless DBoS vs Incap discussion. Incap is an overloaded skill while DBoS is the only useable ult for 3 Stamina classes.
But on stam Warden I can slot the teddy and be cheesy in duels
you see what i did with that warden today trying to troll me with his Walking rug? 0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »So from what I’m getting:
The Major Defile plus the enemy GCD loss on Incap hits other stamina builds more harshly than any build that utilizes a Damage Shield.
The AoE from Summon Shade is unpredictable.
And the Assassination skilline doesn’t have a good skill for NB tanks to utilize that makes good use of the executioner passive during trash pulls.
My two cents on the above:
Replace the defile on incap with a snare. (Keep the defile on Soul Harvest)
Make the shade AoE an activatable ability for the shade (like a sorc pet, give it a cost)
Make Mark Target debuff proc executioner (retool the executioner description)
the defile isn't an issue as you can see with Soul harvest. the stun is where we get from a strong skill to an overloaded skill0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭@BohnT
The stun is what defines it as a morph. Otherwise the only change is the damage type.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »@BohnT
The stun is what defines it as a morph. Otherwise the only change is the damage type.
And we can all agree that the stun makes incap the superior morph for both specs.
I don't want incap cc to be removed without adding anything but the stun is too powerful in conjunction what the skill does.
If you remove the defile it changes nothing because major defile is easy to get.
The damage buff is what makes the whole skill viable and unique so that leaves the only difference between soul harvest and incap and that is the stun.
0 -
HalfEatenCornea✭✭✭Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »The flat damage bonus of 20 percent more damage for 6 seconds is too strong on an ultimate (incap) that already hits hard, has a stun and has a potent debuff such as major defile with it. Would be nice if you changed the flat percent damage buff to all your damage to something like empower which would make the skill much more in line for its low cost.
well put! nerf incap! take the 20 percent dmg amp and defile off, easy fix0 -
HalfEatenCornea✭✭✭Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »The flat damage bonus of 20 percent more damage for 6 seconds is too strong on an ultimate (incap) that already hits hard, has a stun and has a potent debuff such as major defile with it. Would be nice if you changed the flat percent damage buff to all your damage to something like empower which would make the skill much more in line for its low cost.
well put! nerf incap! take the 20 percent dmg amp and defile off, easy fix0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭@BohnT
Major defile being easy to get then might be a design error, but restricting it to the lesser CC morph will at least require some more effort to then apply it to a player, and give the player time to counter it.
As you note, the damage boost is the core to the skill, and the ult gen vs the stun are the morph options.
Which means the other aspects are what should be adjusted initially. And in my opinion, Major Defile is the prime candidate. As it pairs extremely well will the damage boost after chunking an enemy’s health. Since you are given the optimal application window, assuming you timed your burst well.Edited by Avran_Sylt on May 4, 2018 7:30PM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HalfEatenCornea wrote: »Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »The flat damage bonus of 20 percent more damage for 6 seconds is too strong on an ultimate (incap) that already hits hard, has a stun and has a potent debuff such as major defile with it. Would be nice if you changed the flat percent damage buff to all your damage to something like empower which would make the skill much more in line for its low cost.
well put! nerf incap! take the 20 percent dmg amp and defile off, easy fix
No the 20% damage buff is what makes nightblades the only class that doesn't need a delayed burst ability for burst.3 -
HalfEatenCornea✭✭✭HalfEatenCornea wrote: »Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »The flat damage bonus of 20 percent more damage for 6 seconds is too strong on an ultimate (incap) that already hits hard, has a stun and has a potent debuff such as major defile with it. Would be nice if you changed the flat percent damage buff to all your damage to something like empower which would make the skill much more in line for its low cost.
well put! nerf incap! take the 20 percent dmg amp and defile off, easy fix
No the 20% damage buff is what makes nightblades the only class that doesn't need a delayed burst ability for burst.
i disagree, it might be the extremely strong passives nightblades have, combined with high damage skills like bow proc, suprise attack, incap. even without that 20 percent dmg amp, good stamblades will still wreck people and they know it0 -
Nevasca✭✭✭✭✭Only nerf they should consider to Death Stroke and it's morphs should be the ult cost. 70 ult is really cheap. Yes it does a lot, but it's pure single-target, contrary to DBoS.
I feel like NBs punish squishy people and outpositioned people and that's why people get triggered: They refuse to adapt. I am not sure if Incap actually deserves nerfs or it is mostly a L2P issue. Perhaps they could rework the ultimate to make it equally as strong but not as oppresive. How they would do that however, I don't know. But just blindly nerfing Incap is not the answer.Edited by Nevasca on May 4, 2018 9:00PM0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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They can't increase the cost of incap because than PVE Stamblade DPS would go down the drain and be back to the weakest StamDPS.It would kinda F over Major slayer uptime.You can only run 1 stamplar in a group so no more major slayer and back to only Stamdk in groups.If any at all.Littlebluelizard wrote: »Only nerf they should consider to Death Stroke and it's morphs should be the ult cost. 70 ult is really cheap. Yes it does a lot, but it's pure single-target, contrary to DBoS.
I feel like NBs punish squishy people and outpositioned people and that's why people get triggered: They refuse to adapt. I am not sure if Incap actually deserves nerfs or it is mostly a L2P issue. Perhaps they could rework the ultimate to make it equally as strong but not as oppresive. How they would do that however, I don't know. But just blindly nerfing Incap is not the answer.
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Nevasca✭✭✭✭✭
They can't increase the cost of incap because than PVE Stamblade DPS would go down the drain and be back to the weakest StamDPS.It would kinda F over Major slayer uptime.You can only run 1 stamplar in a group so no more major slayer and back to only Stamdk in groups.If any at all.Littlebluelizard wrote: »Only nerf they should consider to Death Stroke and it's morphs should be the ult cost. 70 ult is really cheap. Yes it does a lot, but it's pure single-target, contrary to DBoS.
I feel like NBs punish squishy people and outpositioned people and that's why people get triggered: They refuse to adapt. I am not sure if Incap actually deserves nerfs or it is mostly a L2P issue. Perhaps they could rework the ultimate to make it equally as strong but not as oppresive. How they would do that however, I don't know. But just blindly nerfing Incap is not the answer.
It wouldn't be that bad to be honest. Stamsorc uses War Machine and has decent uptime by using DB, which costs 105 for them I believe? EDIT: And Stamblade has better Ult gen.Edited by Nevasca on May 4, 2018 9:17PM0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you want to solve incap issues, look at the stun. You dont want more pvers crying about how pvp is affecting pve3 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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Yea it wouldn't be the same it would have no were near the uptime as stamblade or even stamplars.A almost 30 ultimate difference is huge.Uptime wouldn't be anywhere close lets say its a 75% uptime now but it be only a 40% for a stamsorc if even that.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
They can't increase the cost of incap because than PVE Stamblade DPS would go down the drain and be back to the weakest StamDPS.It would kinda F over Major slayer uptime.You can only run 1 stamplar in a group so no more major slayer and back to only Stamdk in groups.If any at all.Littlebluelizard wrote: »Only nerf they should consider to Death Stroke and it's morphs should be the ult cost. 70 ult is really cheap. Yes it does a lot, but it's pure single-target, contrary to DBoS.
I feel like NBs punish squishy people and outpositioned people and that's why people get triggered: They refuse to adapt. I am not sure if Incap actually deserves nerfs or it is mostly a L2P issue. Perhaps they could rework the ultimate to make it equally as strong but not as oppresive. How they would do that however, I don't know. But just blindly nerfing Incap is not the answer.
It wouldn't be that bad to be honest. Stamsorc uses War Machine and has decent uptime by using DB, which costs 105 for them I believe? EDIT: And Stamblade has better Ult gen.
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Nevasca✭✭✭✭✭
Yea it wouldn't be the same it would have no were near the uptime as stamblade or even stamplars.A almost 30 ultimate difference is huge.Uptime wouldn't be anywhere close lets say its a 75% uptime now but it be only a 40% for a stamsorc if even that.Littlebluelizard wrote: »
They can't increase the cost of incap because than PVE Stamblade DPS would go down the drain and be back to the weakest StamDPS.It would kinda F over Major slayer uptime.You can only run 1 stamplar in a group so no more major slayer and back to only Stamdk in groups.If any at all.Littlebluelizard wrote: »Only nerf they should consider to Death Stroke and it's morphs should be the ult cost. 70 ult is really cheap. Yes it does a lot, but it's pure single-target, contrary to DBoS.
I feel like NBs punish squishy people and outpositioned people and that's why people get triggered: They refuse to adapt. I am not sure if Incap actually deserves nerfs or it is mostly a L2P issue. Perhaps they could rework the ultimate to make it equally as strong but not as oppresive. How they would do that however, I don't know. But just blindly nerfing Incap is not the answer.
It wouldn't be that bad to be honest. Stamsorc uses War Machine and has decent uptime by using DB, which costs 105 for them I believe? EDIT: And Stamblade has better Ult gen.
Yeah 105 ult would be too much for Incap, I was thinking maybe 85-90.0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »@SirSocke
The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.
With the small difference that DBoS isn't overloaded. You get Damage+stun and some passives.
Incap however gives you 2 debuffs+damage+stun + passives + latency bugs
Also i completely disagree with you on removing the damage buff on incap. That's the only skill in the game that has the debuff vulnerability (not empower) and it's the a huge reason why nightblades perform good in pve and PvP. In pve it's just a very good damage increase and in PvP it gives nbs enough pressure to kill people without needing a delayed burst skill.
The only thing that needs to be removed is the CC. Soul harvest does the same thing but it's not an issue because it doesn't feature a CC.
Ofc you have to give Incap something to prevent it from being useless be it another small buff/debuff, snare or some out of combat utility
Forgot to mention DBoS also hate latency issues like every skill in the game + AoE + applies a nice DoT effect to all targets in the area
DBoS has negative latency issues for the user because the skill doesn't connect.
Incap has positive latency issues as from time to time it ignores cc immunity or dodge roll.
Stop this useless DBoS vs Incap discussion. Incap is an overloaded skill while DBoS is the only useable ult for 3 Stamina classes.
But on stam Warden I can slot the teddy and be cheesy in duels
Hahahahaha teddy2
