PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance

Subversus · May 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

I have no idea, I know for a fact that next patch idgaf anymore and I’m going full procs. Why give a *** about the game if the devs don’t?

But yeah idk about overperforming, if anything magblades will stay exactly the same with the exception of a small cost increase (that in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant to an experienced magblade) and heavy getting path nerfed as well.

When calling magblades op you have to also bear in mind the skill ceiling the class has. It’s very rare that people reroll and suddenly start doing well.

Derra · May 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

Feanor · May 2018

I’m curious if we’ll see any changes in 4.0.3. today...

Derra · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

I’m curious if we’ll see any changes in 4.0.3. today...

pst - don´t jinx it

BohnT · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

I don't think sload will pull you out of cloak on live i just can't imagine they really introduce such a *** set.

And even if it goes live this way with the removed restriction on shade i just don't see a reason why i would every die if i really go full tryhard.
On live i die maybe 3-5 times per evening when i run with my meele magnb without shields, no 2h etc. even if a certain magdk khajiit tries to get me with his army of brain dead snipers and poison spammers i can get away so often and most of the time i die because i couldn't place the shade where i wanted it to be.

Pastas · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@SirSocke

The issue is that these skills are overloaded. The developer comment on the PTS for taking the CC off magWarden‘s shalks (or of Frags, for that matter) was that high damage abilities shouldn’t provide a CC. Now compare that comment with Incap and Dawnbreaker. It’s not about getting killed - it’s about having several key burst components rolled into a single ability. If you have to use 1 GCD less for your burst it’s a meaningful limitation on the opponents counterplay.

Dawnbreaker and Incap are ultimates, Frags and Shalks are skills, it doesn't looks like a fair coparision.

Silver_Strider · May 2018

I expect nothing but disappointment in today's patch notes and I doubt ZOS will prove me wrong.

If anything, I expect them to double down on the nerfs for every class so everyone is brought down to Magden levels (and then they nerf Magden even more)

Derra · May 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

I don't think sload will pull you out of cloak on live i just can't imagine they really introduce such a *** set.

I said about the same about shieldbreaker back before IC.

And if sload should be counterable by cloak and purge on live but still hardcounter shields i´m gonna throw a tantrum. Atleast sload is bending everyone over equally atm.

BohnT · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

I don't think sload will pull you out of cloak on live i just can't imagine they really introduce such a *** set.

I said about the same about shieldbreaker back before IC.

And if sload should be counterable by cloak and purge on live but still hardcounter shields i´m gonna throw a tantrum. Atleast sload is bending everyone over equally atm.

"You can always kill the sloads wearer and he only does 853 damage, how can you die to 853 damage? "
~Zergling circa patch 4.0.5

rk110132 · May 2018

Please kindly fix the haemorrhage passive as it doesn't grant 10% more crit damage as it is said in the skill passive

Feanor · May 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

I don't think sload will pull you out of cloak on live i just can't imagine they really introduce such a *** set.

I said about the same about shieldbreaker back before IC.

And if sload should be counterable by cloak and purge on live but still hardcounter shields i´m gonna throw a tantrum. Atleast sload is bending everyone over equally atm.

"You can always kill the sloads wearer and he only does 853 damage, how can you die to 853 damage? "
~Zergling circa patch 4.0.5

Can’t wait to get silverleashed into the Sload Horde...

BohnT · May 2018

rk110132 wrote: »

Please kindly fix the haemorrhage passive as it doesn't grant 10% more crit damage as it is said in the skill passive

It works perfectly fine:
Concealed Weapons without Haemorrhage: 2468
Concealed Weapons with Haemorrhage: 2633

LA without Haem: 1073
LA with Haem: 1144

NyassaV · May 2018

aeowulf wrote: »

With strife you used to spam it as a NB tank when you were fighting a boss, it meant it would heal every second instead of every other, it wasn't used for DPS.

It's being balanced with a DPS skill, and it shouldn't/can't be, because they are different. Strife is a heal, it heals you, it heals a group mate, or whilst slotted you can get extra healing, and the passives in that tree help healing. Force pulse is DPS, and DPS status effects, with passives that increase DPS.

My only logical conclusion is if this reasoning is continue to be used, we will start seeing really daft balancing reasons, like 'Oh can we balance blur with force pulse too? it does no damage so should cost nothing...' Sounds crazy right? but it's the same logic...

^ @ZOS_Wrobel

NyassaV · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

I have no idea, I know for a fact that next patch idgaf anymore and I’m going full procs. Why give a *** about the game if the devs don’t?

But yeah idk about overperforming, if anything magblades will stay exactly the same with the exception of a small cost increase (that in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant to an experienced magblade) and heavy getting path nerfed as well.

When calling magblades op you have to also bear in mind the skill ceiling the class has. It’s very rare that people reroll and suddenly start doing well.

Dude same... Going full proctard next patch

SpiderCultist · May 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

I have no idea, I know for a fact that next patch idgaf anymore and I’m going full procs. Why give a *** about the game if the devs don’t?

But yeah idk about overperforming, if anything magblades will stay exactly the same with the exception of a small cost increase (that in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant to an experienced magblade) and heavy getting path nerfed as well.

When calling magblades op you have to also bear in mind the skill ceiling the class has. It’s very rare that people reroll and suddenly start doing well.

Dude same... Going full proctard next patch

caluurion + spinner + zaan

We are nightblades, we never forget, we never forgive... expect us... ganking you off your horse

tinythinker · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I’m curious if we’ll see any changes in 4.0.3. today...

pst - don´t jinx it

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I expect nothing but disappointment in today's patch notes

Here you go:

We truly appreciate all the time and effort everyone has put into writing their feedback on current class balance. In hindsight, we realized the previous patch notes may have implied that balance changes specifically for class abilities would be included in upcoming PTS patches for Update 18. To be clear, our focus for the remaining PTS updates will be iteration and polish for the Psijic Order skill line, Light and Heavy Attack balancing, updating item sets, and fixing bugs. We are, however, collecting all your class feedback and will work on improving class balance in future updates.[/quote

NyassaV · May 2018

SpiderCultist wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

I have no idea, I know for a fact that next patch idgaf anymore and I’m going full procs. Why give a *** about the game if the devs don’t?

But yeah idk about overperforming, if anything magblades will stay exactly the same with the exception of a small cost increase (that in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant to an experienced magblade) and heavy getting path nerfed as well.

When calling magblades op you have to also bear in mind the skill ceiling the class has. It’s very rare that people reroll and suddenly start doing well.

Dude same... Going full proctard next patch

caluurion + spinner + zaan

We are nightblades, we never forget, we never forgive... expect us... ganking you off your horse

Check out my youtube for that build. It's for Dragon bones right now but I'll be updating it for next patch

waitwhat · May 2018

aeowulf wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade combat balance and ability changes. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance.

Nor do any of the changes that hit PTS have an impact on the way Incap works.

PSA for everyone: The above isn't true. The change to empower means that Incap will generally do 20% less burst damage, as the Empower from Ambush will only boost the damage of light attacks, not abilities. Don't think this is a point of contention, but just want to periodically remind everyone.

Subversus · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

I don't think sload will pull you out of cloak on live i just can't imagine they really introduce such a *** set.

I said about the same about shieldbreaker back before IC.

And if sload should be counterable by cloak and purge on live but still hardcounter shields i´m gonna throw a tantrum. Atleast sload is bending everyone over equally atm.

You better reroll AD next patch, because indigitally is going to have a field day against EP/DC sorcs.

NyassaV · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

I don't think sload will pull you out of cloak on live i just can't imagine they really introduce such a *** set.

I said about the same about shieldbreaker back before IC.

And if sload should be counterable by cloak and purge on live but still hardcounter shields i´m gonna throw a tantrum. Atleast sload is bending everyone over equally atm.

You better reroll AD next patch, because indigitally is going to have a field day against EP/DC sorcs.

Uhhh... AD is sorc nation? Or is it different on EU? For NA most sorcs, stamdens, and stamblades are AD. EP has DKs and templars, magic Wardens. DC is a fuster cluck of everything (Lots of useless magblades that no one ever sees because they are useless and spend all day in stealth. Legit my corpse was in a field for like 10 mins and I watched as 10 different magblades wandered all over this open field outside a keep and finally a bloody mDK picks me up when siege starts up at the nearby keep.)

Derra · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

I don't think sload will pull you out of cloak on live i just can't imagine they really introduce such a *** set.

I said about the same about shieldbreaker back before IC.

And if sload should be counterable by cloak and purge on live but still hardcounter shields i´m gonna throw a tantrum. Atleast sload is bending everyone over equally atm.

You better reroll AD next patch, because indigitally is going to have a field day against EP/DC sorcs.

i have a build that can atleast on theory deal with sload shieldbreaker - durok on top is more problematic.

NyassaV · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

I don't think sload will pull you out of cloak on live i just can't imagine they really introduce such a *** set.

I said about the same about shieldbreaker back before IC.

And if sload should be counterable by cloak and purge on live but still hardcounter shields i´m gonna throw a tantrum. Atleast sload is bending everyone over equally atm.

You better reroll AD next patch, because indigitally is going to have a field day against EP/DC sorcs.

i have a build that can atleast on theory deal with sload shieldbreaker - durok on top is more problematic.

lel durrok + sloads

Ragnaroek93 · May 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

I don't think sload will pull you out of cloak on live i just can't imagine they really introduce such a *** set.

I said about the same about shieldbreaker back before IC.

And if sload should be counterable by cloak and purge on live but still hardcounter shields i´m gonna throw a tantrum. Atleast sload is bending everyone over equally atm.

You better reroll AD next patch, because indigitally is going to have a field day against EP/DC sorcs.

i have a build that can atleast on theory deal with sload shieldbreaker - durok on top is more problematic.

lel durrok + sloads

Embrace the meta...

RavenSworn · May 2018

I've never seen a class community this divisive before.

MehrunesFlagon · May 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Ragnarock41

Yeah, which is why comparing BE to Strife isn’t a good idea. Even comparing Crippling Grasp to BE is crap. BE is most closely associated with Twin Slashes.

But with people so gung-*** about comparing strife to BE I wanted to specifically target the other parts of the skill.

What exactly is your reasoning for clarifying the heavy melee focus of the DK? I might not understand your point of view.

my reasoning is very simple. melee versus ranged. The mechanics in this game are always against melee players, both in pve and pvp. While embers have a heal with it, its not going to be as good as having blade cloak on a stam DD.

Normally I don't even care about this but seeing magblades asking for embers nerf is completely ridicilous to me.

I'm not asking for this to be nerfed,but then again I play mdk too.

Subversus · May 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

I don't think sload will pull you out of cloak on live i just can't imagine they really introduce such a *** set.

I said about the same about shieldbreaker back before IC.

And if sload should be counterable by cloak and purge on live but still hardcounter shields i´m gonna throw a tantrum. Atleast sload is bending everyone over equally atm.

You better reroll AD next patch, because indigitally is going to have a field day against EP/DC sorcs.

Uhhh... AD is sorc nation? Or is it different on EU? For NA most sorcs, stamdens, and stamblades are AD. EP has DKs and templars, magic Wardens. DC is a fuster cluck of everything (Lots of useless magblades that no one ever sees because they are useless and spend all day in stealth. Legit my corpse was in a field for like 10 mins and I watched as 10 different magblades wandered all over this open field outside a keep and finally a bloody mDK picks me up when siege starts up at the nearby keep.)

Not really, but AD is the “***” nation. There are a lot of trolls on there, especially the indigitally person. Look him up on YouTube, his videos are... a treat

BohnT · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think the strife hot should be able to crit again

I would take the cost increase if that was also added. Crit heals on strife would be crazy.

And I'm sitting here and discussing with myself if magblades won't be overperfoming in OW PvP next patch

Idk - magblades get sloaded and zerged.

I don't think sload will pull you out of cloak on live i just can't imagine they really introduce such a *** set.

I said about the same about shieldbreaker back before IC.

And if sload should be counterable by cloak and purge on live but still hardcounter shields i´m gonna throw a tantrum. Atleast sload is bending everyone over equally atm.

You better reroll AD next patch, because indigitally is going to have a field day against EP/DC sorcs.

Uhhh... AD is sorc nation? Or is it different on EU? For NA most sorcs, stamdens, and stamblades are AD. EP has DKs and templars, magic Wardens. DC is a fuster cluck of everything (Lots of useless magblades that no one ever sees because they are useless and spend all day in stealth. Legit my corpse was in a field for like 10 mins and I watched as 10 different magblades wandered all over this open field outside a keep and finally a bloody mDK picks me up when siege starts up at the nearby keep.)

Not really, but AD is the “***” nation. There are a lot of trolls on there, especially the indigitally person. Look him up on YouTube, his videos are... a treat

AD on EU Vivec is this:
45% stamina khajiit nightblades (i'm not kidding)
10% nightblades either magicka or stamina with different race
15% sorcs
5% warden
25% DKs and Templars

and 99% of them are zerglings that will abuse any mechanic and waste their time sitting in hide at the lake west of BBoot until the 1-4 zerged players rez

About Nightblade balance:
The issue still remains that there is no incentive for a NB to actually stay in a fight.
- you can unleash your full burst without needing a offensive window before
- you can't die when you aren't in combat
- you can control the whole fight as you can engage and disengage on your decision

This can be tackled with one of two things.
Either you nerf their defence so hard that nightblades aren't able to survive 2 seconds when they reveal themselves to the enemy.

I don't like this approach however as it makes both playing NB and fighting NBs even more frustrating as a NB would have to focus on going full damage to kill any enemy in 1-2 seconds after entering combat.

The second approach is to reduce the frontloaded burst of nightblades while keeping their defence as it is now.
This can be done by staying in line with the idea that cheap high damage abilities shouldn't have a stun attached to them by simply removing the stun on Incap and adding a minor buff to it to balance it with soul harvest which is currently the inferior morph for both specs in PvP.

WhipSmartMcoy · May 2018

Been a main Nb since console launch and I honestly LOVE where the Nb is. I honestly think it should be the poster child of balance in this game lol.

But anyways;
Incap is perfectly fine
The ulti gen on SH seems pointless to me since Nb already has strong ulti gen. Maybe replace that effect with something more useful, like a snare or a dot? It needs something to compete with Incap.

Assasins blade

Minalan · May 2018

L

WhipSmartMcoy wrote: »

Been a main Nb since console launch and I honestly LOVE where the Nb is. I honestly think it should be the poster child of balance in this game lol.

But anyways;
Incap is perfectly fine
The ulti gen on SH seems pointless to me since Nb already has strong ulti gen. Maybe replace that effect with something more useful, like a snare or a dot? It needs something to compete with Incap.

Assasins blade

The problem is that by ‘Poster Child For Balance’ you Nightblades usually mean ‘for us’ and specifically ‘not for you or anyone else’.

Unavoidable instant death combos? Yep. Sorc has one now, let’s see how long it takes for nightblades to cry foul. Oh wait...

Subversus · May 2018

Minalan wrote: »

L

WhipSmartMcoy wrote: »

Been a main Nb since console launch and I honestly LOVE where the Nb is. I honestly think it should be the poster child of balance in this game lol.

But anyways;
Incap is perfectly fine
The ulti gen on SH seems pointless to me since Nb already has strong ulti gen. Maybe replace that effect with something more useful, like a snare or a dot? It needs something to compete with Incap.

Assasins blade

The problem is that by ‘Poster Child For Balance’ you Nightblades usually mean ‘for us’ and specifically ‘not for you or anyone else’.

Unavoidable instant death combos? Yep. Sorc has one now, let’s see how long it takes for nightblades to cry foul. Oh wait...

So it sucks when another class cries foul eh? Ironic isn’t it? Now try to argue with people that have been crying foul on your class for the past year.