PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance

Dedricus · April 2018

It's like they want us to be garbage!

MaxwellC · April 2018

Kinda frustrated atm.

I remember making a thread before the PTS even started, I raged against all the changes but players told me that I needed to be patient and that things were going to change.
Well I guess I wasn't exaggerating when I "jumped the gun"; I knew the rodeo and I planned to take it on before it would start but unfortunately I wasn't able to change anything.

I really would love to know who is working on combat nowadays, people have told me wrobel isn't the actual combat lead but some new person, so it's hard to come down on wrobel alone but man... I guess our hope solely relies on those class representatives (unfortunately they'll primarily be streamers rather than top leaderboard holders both PvP/PvE).

Twohothardware · April 2018

They've got to buff the damage on Stamina DK for PvP. It's too far behind Stamina Warden and Sorcerer and no longer has any advantage in being tankier because Warden has nearly the same defensive toolkit while noticeably more burst damage.

DemonDruaga · April 2018

Makes no sense to add a rng based recovery passive, that is tied to a status effect where some races have imunity too.
As stam dk you going to get that extra stam like every other 5 mins.
Garbage!

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

DemonDruaga wrote: »

Makes no sense to add a rng based recovery passive, that is tied to a status effect where some races have imunity too.
As stam dk you going to get that extra stam like every other 5 mins.
Garbage!

As funny as it sounds, this is actually the best patch and the first buff Dk(especially stam) ever got since morrowind came out.
It was all going downhill till now. So who knows, maybe in like the next 6 months they will make it fun to play again. But don't really count your hopes for it.

the new RNGbustion is unreliable indeed, but its there. Just don't rely on it.

Xvorg · April 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DemonDruaga wrote: »

Makes no sense to add a rng based recovery passive, that is tied to a status effect where some races have imunity too.
As stam dk you going to get that extra stam like every other 5 mins.
Garbage!

As funny as it sounds, this is actually the best patch and the first buff Dk(especially stam) ever got since morrowind came out.
It was all going downhill till now. So who knows, maybe in like the next 6 months they will make it fun to play again. But don't really count your hopes for it.

the new RNGbustion is unreliable indeed, but its there. Just don't rely on it.

TBH, it has always been unreliable. Thing is now it does something besides the extra 33% dmg (mitigated up to a 3%) it used to do on PvP.

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DemonDruaga wrote: »

Makes no sense to add a rng based recovery passive, that is tied to a status effect where some races have imunity too.
As stam dk you going to get that extra stam like every other 5 mins.
Garbage!

As funny as it sounds, this is actually the best patch and the first buff Dk(especially stam) ever got since morrowind came out.
It was all going downhill till now. So who knows, maybe in like the next 6 months they will make it fun to play again. But don't really count your hopes for it.

the new RNGbustion is unreliable indeed, but its there. Just don't rely on it.

TBH, it has always been unreliable. Thing is now it does something besides the extra 33% dmg (mitigated up to a 3%) it used to do on PvP.

Reliability is key for PvP. If an ability/mechanic is unreliable you expect great reward out of it, and combustion is just meh on all cases. Sure it is a free passive, there are no risks, but it expects you to run multiple poisons to utilize it, and it does not even reward you properly for it.

Still, I'm pretty sure this tiny sustain is more valueable than the bonus poisoned damage bonus of combustion. So its a buff. Kind of.
You'll see Dks dropping evil hunter for claws to utilize this. though I still doubt anyone will make a full poison knight build just because of this.

NBrookus · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

Kinda frustrated atm.

I remember making a thread before the PTS even started, I raged against all the changes but players told me that I needed to be patient and that things were going to change.
Well I guess I wasn't exaggerating when I "jumped the gun"; I knew the rodeo and I planned to take it on before it would start but unfortunately I wasn't able to change anything.

I really would love to know who is working on combat nowadays, people have told me wrobel isn't the actual combat lead but some new person, so it's hard to come down on wrobel alone but man... I guess our hope solely relies on those class representatives (unfortunately they'll primarily be streamers rather than top leaderboard holders both PvP/PvE).

They are terrified mDK will go back to invincible in PVP so we get these tiny tweaks. (And I didn't play then, so I don't really know what the deal was.) All DK needs is:

- Rework and rearrange passives, mostly for stamDK
- 2-3 seconds snare immunity on Wings so you can get out of an AOE snare and have the option to drop vamp because Mist isn't a must-have
- Empowering Chains fix
- Range nerf to Fossilize removed and given back it's 15m range. Or at least 12. Tell you what, remove the extra root so you have either 15m range (Petrify) or the aoe damage (Shattering Rocks.)

Everything else would be fine. We have heals, we have damage. It's the passives and utility we lack.

ak_pvp · April 2018

NBrookus wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

Kinda frustrated atm.

I remember making a thread before the PTS even started, I raged against all the changes but players told me that I needed to be patient and that things were going to change.
Well I guess I wasn't exaggerating when I "jumped the gun"; I knew the rodeo and I planned to take it on before it would start but unfortunately I wasn't able to change anything.

I really would love to know who is working on combat nowadays, people have told me wrobel isn't the actual combat lead but some new person, so it's hard to come down on wrobel alone but man... I guess our hope solely relies on those class representatives (unfortunately they'll primarily be streamers rather than top leaderboard holders both PvP/PvE).

They are terrified mDK will go back to invincible in PVP so we get these tiny tweaks. (And I didn't play then, so I don't really know what the deal was.) All DK needs is:

- Rework and rearrange passives, mostly for stamDK
- 2-3 seconds snare immunity on Wings so you can get out of an AOE snare and have the option to drop vamp because Mist isn't a must-have
- Empowering Chains fix
- Range nerf to Fossilize removed and given back it's 15m range. Or at least 12. Tell you what, remove the extra root so you have either 15m range (Petrify) or the aoe damage (Shattering Rocks.)

Everything else would be fine. We have heals, we have damage. It's the passives and utility we lack.

Which in itself is stupid. MagDK has recieved constant nerfs since morrowind (Being the definitive worst class post changes) that outweigh the buffs quite clearly. You have both NBs who are much much stronger, stamden which is stronger in every way, and other classes like stamsorc/magsorc/stamplar/current patch magden who compare to MDK.

What do they do? Give a massive buff to NBs mobility with untethered shade, what does PvP MDK get? Useless snare removal and some decent, but situational RNG sustain. (All the healing changes are really PvE only, MagDK won't use most of them. Frag shield isn't good enough to slot for the cost for magicka builds, and is still a nerf compared to before.)

zParallaxz · April 2018

Lol I told you guys, even funnier when I made my thread called the PTS Scam, people were bashing me say I shouldn’t always get my way since it’s not what “every dk” wants.
P.S I asked for simple changes such as snare immunity to wings and a change to elder dragon passive which I’m pretty sure every dk stam or mag wanted

zParallaxz · April 2018

We probably won’t get any changes for a while due to the amount of ZOS white knights who don’t understand the game was made for the community not god damn ZOS employees.

Twohothardware · April 2018

Green Dragon Blood needs to be converted into a Stamina morph so that it offers what Soothing Spores does for StamWarden. StamDK has WAY too many skills with Magicka only morphs and you can't make use of them because you can't sustain them when you've got three or four different Magicka skills on your bar.

StamDK needs at least 1-2 more Stamina based skills, Wings need to be fixed so that they are as strong as StamWarden's Shimmering Shield which even with the nerf has near 100% uptime and grands Major Heroism, and if StamDK is going to be all about DoT's and pressure instead of burst damage then StamDK needs higher damage DoT's because the current ones suck in PvP.

Riggsy · April 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guys, don't forget as stated in the very first paragraph, you'll begin seeing some balance adjustments next week at the earliest. This patch is mainly bug fixes.

She said that after releasing v4.0.1...
Well, after reading what was in v4.0.2 I found no substantive "balance adjustments" - heck there was less addressed in this patch than the last. I hate to break it to all the people wasting their time in this thread, laying out detailed fixes and ideas, ZOS isn't reading it and they don't seem to care.

Edit: btw, how many patches do you think remain? Two at most? Heck of a time to "begin" introducing balance adjustments a week before release...

ecru · May 2018

dw heavy attacks are back to being garbage even with molten armaments. nice change.

Kronuxx · May 2018

Riggsy wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guys, don't forget as stated in the very first paragraph, you'll begin seeing some balance adjustments next week at the earliest. This patch is mainly bug fixes.

She said that after releasing v4.0.1...
Well, after reading what was in v4.0.2 I found no substantive "balance adjustments" - heck there was less addressed in this patch than the last. I hate to break it to all the people wasting their time in this thread, laying out detailed fixes and ideas, ZOS isn't reading it and they don't seem to care.

Edit: btw, how many patches do you think remain? Two at most? Heck of a time to "begin" introducing balance adjustments a week before release...

My thoughts as well. I mean, I don't get it. How on earth are they going to introduce balance changes literally a couple weeks before release? I have a feeling they aren't going to change much. They do this by telling people what they want to hear so their product is bought. My suggestion is stop feeding ZOS with your money. ZOS doesn't deserve it.

MaxwellC · May 2018

I get it trust me but there's a side of me that says "Don't give up" and as such I just can't. I love this class and want it to get better and no I don't mean by "better" OP.
I've been at this since after Imperial city's PTS and even time after time of disappointment, I'm still back at it again.

KingLogix · May 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lol I told you guys, even funnier when I made my thread called the PTS Scam, people were bashing me say I shouldn’t always get my way since it’s not what “every dk” wants.
P.S I asked for simple changes such as snare immunity to wings and a change to elder dragon passive which I’m pretty sure every dk stam or mag wanted

It's so annoying the class isn't being addressed appropriately

CrazYDunm3r · May 2018

Something that might be noticeable: most MagDK's seem to be either *** or pretty good, not very often a gray area in between imo. This might make it seem that MagDK's are very strong for some players, but in reality the same MagDK players might do even better if they played another class as long as they did the DK. Now they might think the class is on the edge of being "OP" again, so they don't want to change a lot. Just a theory I have.

Kronuxx · May 2018

CrazYDunm3r wrote: »

Something that might be noticeable: most MagDK's seem to be either *** or pretty good, not very often a gray area in between imo. This might make it seem that MagDK's are very strong for some players, but in reality the same MagDK players might do even better if they played another class as long as they did the DK. Now they might think the class is on the edge of being "OP" again, so they don't want to change a lot. Just a theory I have.

Mag DK's I think are in a good spot to be honest. Both PvP currently, and in Summerset PvE they are now doing better. The issue is really Stam DK. Literally the only change this whole pts that helps us in any amount is the increase in major mending time to 5.4 secs from 3 secs. That's it. The change to combustion passive is a joke for PvP.

CrazYDunm3r · May 2018

Kronuxx wrote: »

Mag DK's I think are in a good spot to be honest. Both PvP currently, and in Summerset PvE they are now doing better. The issue is really Stam DK. Literally the only change this whole pts that helps us in any amount is the increase in major mending time to 5.4 secs from 3 secs. That's it. The change to combustion passive is a joke for PvP.

I never said MagDK isn't fine

I agree with you stamDK opinion.

Savos_Saren · May 2018

It's upsetting to think that ZOS is worried that DKs will become PVP gods again...

...but yet here we are with Elder Nightblades Online.

Mobility? Check.
High Burst? Check.
Pseudo-purge through cloaking? Check.
Execute? Check.
Major Defile on demand? Check.

It still blows my mind that it's "working as intended" for a Nightblade to be able to completely ignore my Burning Embers/Venomous Claw damage while cloaking. What's the purpose of the "DoT class" if our DoTs can be ignored?

IZZEFlameLash · May 2018

BohnT wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Still waiting for that combustion passive to be changed to guaranteed proc on class skill damage damaging things. And something better than 15% health recovery because it is something not normally stacked. Perhaps 3% recovery boost or slight dot buffs such as damage or making it unpurgeable dot for first few seconds.

Are you talking about elder Dragon or combustion now?

Both. Elder Dragon needs to be changed. Dragons are beings of magic and stamina. Heck, TES dragons flying is due to magic. Maybe give 5% boost to the recoveries of health, stamina and magicka even. Or 3% cost reduction. But this probably won't change and we probably will be stuck with combustion still being bad due to it being tied to status effect.

And 4.0.2 patch notes were really disappointing. I know it is ZOS tradition to not even fix anything during PTS pretty much but this is getting worse and worse. No snare immunity for even 2~4 seconds? Good luck trying to move in this snarefest. Sure, mistform got fixed supposedly but still means we are pretty much going to be stuck being a vampire if running solo.

DK DoT is pretty meaningless unless the person fighting against does not know how or do not have resources (somehow getting outlasted by DK with its all expensive/near no sustain help from class passive) to deal with the DoT. No tanking help either for PvP. DKs won't be the gods of battlefield even with help anyways because of lack of dynamic ultgen. Class lacks vision and yet is being forced to tank archetype without clear help in that direction either. Perhaps there need be a passive to help the DoT being unpurgeable for first half of the duration of whatever skill and some form of mitigation buff like physical resistance buff to make it more tanky. Or maybe something close to minor heroism if you still do not want to give DK sustain help so that we will get our ults faster to sustain.

ecru · May 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

It still blows my mind that it's "working as intended" for a Nightblade to be able to completely ignore my Burning Embers/Venomous Claw damage while cloaking. What's the purpose of the "DoT class" if our DoTs can be ignored?

this needs to be repeated until someone at zos understands this.

Kronuxx · May 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

It's upsetting to think that ZOS is worried that DKs will become PVP gods again...

...but yet here we are with Elder Nightblades Online.

Mobility? Check.
High Burst? Check.
Pseudo-purge through cloaking? Check.
Execute? Check.
Major Defile on demand? Check.

It still blows my mind that it's "working as intended" for a Nightblade to be able to completely ignore my Burning Embers/Venomous Claw damage while cloaking. What's the purpose of the "DoT class" if our DoTs can be ignored?

Good question. You're not the only like-minded DK who wonders this. Let's ask @ZOS_Wrobel .

BohnT · May 2018

@ZOS_Wrobel as we'll maybe see some balance and skill changes with next weeks Pts patch i want to remind you that:
-Reflective Plate needs a 2-3 seconds snare immunity
after the removal otherwise it's an useless ability.
-Elder Dragon passive and world in ruins are still way too bad
-Fix the bugs related to leap
-Stamdk needs help #stamspammableforDK and more you can find more or less reasonable suggestions in this post or in other posts on the forums

Orimas · May 2018

For a long time both Stamina and Magicka DK have been missing something. Lack of execute, a need for better resource management and lack of competive damage. This is my feedback for how to fix that. I believe a prime candidate is Molten Weapons and its morphs.

These abilities are boring in their current state and could use some Spicing up. These changes maintain the nature of this ability to be a group buff while also augmenting the DK damage and improve resource management.

This is only a rough draft improvement that I posted in another thread and would need to be hammered out some.

Here is my fix for molten weapons and it's morphs.

Molten weapons:
Molten Weapons Instant Area–28 meters
30 seconds 4320 Magicka
Duration: [27 / 28 / 29 / 30] seconds.

Charge you and your allies' weapons with volcanic power to gain Major Sorcery and Major Brutality increasing your Spell Damage and Weapon Damage by 20% for [27 / 28 / 29 / 30] seconds.
Additionally you increase the damage of your light and heavy attcks on low health targets by x% below x% Heath

Note: At one time this skill had a execute functionality like this for light and heavy attacks. I left the target numbers as x percentage because I don't know what the sweet spot would be to balance it. I also believe this group buff is most useful as universal offering both sorcery and brutality.

Morphs

Igneous Weapons:
See above +
Your Magicka heavy attack damage is increased by 40% and your magicka light and heavy attacks apply the burning status effect.

Venomous Weapons:
See above +
Your Stamina heavy attack damage is increased by 40% and your stamina light and heavy attacks
apply the poisoned status effect.

Note: These 2 morphs are balanced against each other and offer a guatenteed way to trigger status effects to trigger the new combustion as well as improve heavy attack damage to help maintain dps with heavy attacks for resources.

Ability and morphs improved. This brings DK an execute finally and it ties in with the new combustion change to guarantee improved resource management. I believe this will help bring All DK to a more competive level.

J18696 · May 2018

Why wings doesn’t have a few seconds immunity over removal is beyond me if you are fighting another dk with dots on you and remove the snares soon as that dot ticks again snared again i would rather get spell resist on wings again than keep snare removal how it currently is needs immunity

Twohothardware · May 2018

J18696 wrote: »

Why wings doesn’t have a few seconds immunity over removal is beyond me if you are fighting another dk with dots on you and remove the snares soon as that dot ticks again snared again i would rather get spell resist on wings again than keep snare removal how it currently is needs immunity

Better yet just make DK wings exactly the same as Shimmering Shield where it gives you 100% uptime and major heroism.

Soul_Demon · May 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

I want wing immunity to last 4 seconds or as long as the ability lasts but it needs to be stamina and cost around 2500-3500 or the same exact costs as the magicka one just with it costing stamina instead. Reasoning is it'll remove one of the counters to Mag DK if it remains magicka i.e roots/snares.

Translation: I want to be strong, but not you, you stay weak. Remember stamDK only dipped below MDK a couple of patches ago. (Last patch?) 7th carried heavily, with an effective 1k HoT if outnumbered.

You are also shooting yourself in the foot, losing stam for other things, where mag is better for both DKs for utility.

Why would someone ever suggest to simply "take" something from mag- and give it to stam players? What kind of sense is that at all. If you need something to plug a problem you are having asking for skills to be 'taken' from one side of the spectrum hardly achieves that. Leave the mag skills alone, ask for some morphs maybe but don't rob from one side to fill gaps on the other.

Abysswarrior45 · May 2018

stam whip = stam dk fix